bobbieharv

The wonderful people on this board were very helpful in reassuring me about the safety of the water in South Africa (Botswana and Rwanda, where we're also going, are another question). But now I hear we should avoid dairy products everywhere. No cream for coffee? No butter? No cheese?? Should we believe this?

atravelynn

That is one I never heard of. I advise cutting down on those dairy items due to cholesterol. Good advice at home too. I ate all the dairy products. No worries with your cheese sandwich. Just enjoy.

divine54

bobbie
the people who have advised you should be locked up and key disposed for ever ;-)
i have never ever heart such a nonsense!
sorry - but who did you consult?

enjoy the cheese, the cream, the milk.......whatever you want - enjoy it!

div

divine54

bobie
bot and ruanda - i would suggest you limit your drinking to bottled water!
also to brush your teeth - only bottled water.

but for your back's sake: it's not necessary to carry it with your from the states! the bottled water in both countries is S A F E !!! ;-)

div

Celia

Bobbie, who is telling you this stuff?

loru100

Our first trip to Kenya in '98 we met a couple at the Ark. One week later we saw the same couple on a chartered flight to the Mara. She had spent the last week in hospital because she had food poisoning thought to be from improperly refrigerated milk at the Ark. After that I've avoided milk. I still eat cheese and butter but I skip cereal and cream in my coffee. I'm sure 99% of the time it's fine to drink milk and I'm sure this was an isolated incident but I'd rather error on the side of caution than miss a week of my trip like this unfortunate girl did.

loru100

Sorry, that should be "err" on the side of caution...pardon the grammar...

Bill_H

This is actually not as bad a question as the responses indicate, because of the lack of refrigeration, especially during transport.

If you are staying at upscale or mid-range lodges then you're pretty safe, especially for things like butter or cheeses, but people have gotten ill eating at cheaper restaurants (or, in Latin America where I like to hang out sometimes) from street vendors, who obviously have lower sanitation standards than say Serena or CCA.

I usually avoid drinking the milk But I do eat cheese and butter and even ice cream.

Bill

sandi

Can milk go sour? Can cheese turn green? Or course, but that can happen anywhere. Just check my fridge on occasion!

Of course, you can drink milk, eat cheese and spread butter on your toast. If your not sure, smell the milk before drinking; if you see green, cut it off (the rest of the cheese is usually good).

Unless you're out in the bush on your own where I'd never personally bring these items, let alone think to eat them... the hotels, restaurants and lodges/camps are prepared to serve all of these items safely. Even the camps without electricity who run off generators do keep cold foods cold, hot foods hot.

Believe me, as many people visiting in Europe can also get ill on occasion; nor more or less if in South Africa!

bobbieharv

Thank you for that wide range of opinions! Divine 54 and Celia: my information comes from the "Weismann Reports," which my TA printed out for me. The warnings are only for Bots and Rwanda, not SA. For Bots it reads: "visitors are advised to peel fresh fruit and vegetables, make sure meat is cooked throughly and avoid dairy products." For Rwanda it says the same thing about fruits and vegetables and meat, and "avoid local dairy products and assume the tap water is unsafe." I've also been told (by my TA, the travel clinic, and my neighbors who have traveled extensively in Africa) to avoid ice cubes. In Bots we will be on the Great Wilderness Journey with Wilderness travel; in Rwanda we'll be staying at Virunga Lodge. Do all these warnings still apply? No G&T's??

divine54

bobbie
OF COURSE you MUST have your G+T! but just skip the ice! despite we did get the ice in all over southern and east africa and nothing happend.
but to be on the safe side: NO ICE!

the advise also results in NO SALADS!

regarding the advises you got: they want play safe! understandably! but life is life threatening and therefore there are some risks which you simply cannot avoid when you travel. doesn't matter where!
in europe each and every summer there are salmonella infection based on icecream from incecream parlors!

let's put it that way:

south africa: no problem at all with these things like water, diary etc.

botswana:
is this your trip
http://www.wildland.com/trips/detail...wana_itin.aspx

if YES - i would not hesitate to get ice with my G+T and also the salads would be okay for me.
bottled water for drinking and teeth brush.

ruanda
http://www.volcanoessafaris.com/camps_pnv.html
here i would eat the salads and also enjoy my G+T with ice.
bottled water for the rest.

as i can estimate these venues provide ice made from bottled water. so that concern can be neglected. the same with the salads.

but no one can take YOUR responsibility away from you and you have to judge whether you are fine with it or not.

we have travelled southern africa and east africa extensively and the only occasion something happend was in tanzania when fly camping! but this is a completely different environment especially for the catering. and here it was not the water we consumed but the dishes they were cleaned in....
but please don't start on that one ;-)


but you are travelling permanent or at least semi-permanent up-market camps and lodges.
so don't worry and just follow common sense and the advise given by some of these fodorites.

as milk is not staple food - skip it when you feel you should!

but cheese - will be perfectly safe!

would be nice to read your information how your trip went - eventually!

happy planning

div

atravelynn

BobbieHarv,

Now that you listed where you will be, I believe that whatever is put in front of you is fine.

You could ask upon arrival about the ice.

Also, I'd take Pepto, Imodium, and doctor prescribed Cipro just in case. I usually bring all of these home with me. Sometimes the Cipro expiration date means it makes two overseas trips before being discarded.

South Africa, Botswana, and Rwanda--what a combo!

bobbieharv

Yes, Lynne, we are taking Cipro and Immodium along with us - but really hope we don't have to use them!
Divine 54 - that is the Botswana trip we're doing. We're also doing the Selinda Walking Trail - I guess we can ask about the ice. I guess my only last question is about cream in coffee, which my husband is worried about.
Thanks everyone for all the helpful advice!

atravelynn

It never hurts to ask.

divine54

bobbie,

i would leave the cream-decision with my husband.
often they offer hot milk (the english way...;-) ). that might have killed all the germs if there are ANY.
as this cannot be answered sufficiently because nobody can give him a guarantee - he should decide ;-)

there are no such things like "silly questions" but only silly answers! so don't hesitate to put out what ever bothers you!

div

cybor

Just back fro Zimbabwe and Botswana and have to say that I freely ate everything (all forms of dairy, eggs, meat,fruit, veggies etc.)and didn't have consequences.

As one who is susceptible to stomach ailments, I did bring Xifazen for GI only bacterial problems.
I also brought Cipro for more generalized bact. maladies. Didn't need either. I did have broncial problems but I assumed that it was viral rather bacterial. One picks up all sorts of virus's when commuting and being run down.

I did make a few visits to local communities and saw healthy thriving people in both countries, btw.
My guess with the camps, is that they don't need bad food publicity and therefore must be very careful with food preparation.
I have in the past had Montezuma's revenge in a place in central America - I mostly, however blame it on the consumption of too many Margaritas, hot peppers and mass amounts of spicy food that I'm not used to. Very typical when one eats foods they're not used to.

Celia

It sounds like Bobbie's travel agent expects her to exist on biltong and wine! (Actually, the wine part isn't a bad idea...)

I don't know about Rwanda, but in SA and Botswana, I too think you can eat anything put in front of you.

Diamantina

You can definitely get sick from unrefrigerated dairy.
But maybe the warnings you heard were cautioning about the consumption of unpasteurized dairy, which has caused problems in all parts of the world, including the U.S.
Recently, here in California 15 people fell ill from drinking contaminated raw milk; one person became partially paralyzed. See:
http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_10238862
In San Diego, a number of children who have consumed contaminated unpasteurized dairy products from Mexico contracted Mycobacterium bovis, a strain of tuberculosis associated with raw dairy products.
Brucellosis is another infectious disease contracted through the ingestion of contaminated, unpasteurized dairy products and undercooked meats, as well through contact with infected animals or animal tissue (such as cattle, sheep, or goats). See:
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dbmd/disea...cellosis_g.htm
The following website lists other infections associated with the consumption of unpasteurized dairy products:
http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/fttmilk.html
Even if one were to eat contaminated unpasteurized dairy, illness will not necessarily ensue. Our immune systems are often capable of fighting off infection, however, it seems those with compromised immune systems should exercise extra caution. I doubt restaurants and lodges who cater to foreigners would serve unpasteurized dairy products, but street vendors might not be as picky.

atravelynn

"street vendors might not be as picky."

I'd avoid them! Though long ago, I was more adventurous in my nibbling and never suffered for it. No more.

sandi

Rarely street food or me, even the hotdogs from vendors on NYC street. Though admit I'm often tempted during street fairs, but mostly decline.

If anything, the comments most often read about safari food (quality/quantity)... "so good, so much, especially deserts" or "I should have gone on a diet before leaving for safari"

Be aware, but don't let this weigh on your mind too much.