tbug

I have been studying this and other sites for months. I went to Kenya 20 plus years ago and can finally take my family consisting of husband and 4 kids ages 15, 12,10 and 10. Looking at East Africa, SA and Bots. All have merits. Recommendations for a first time trip for them. Because we have 6 a "private vehicle" works so I am not too worried about joining with a group. I have read plenty on Thomson in east africa but am a bit concerned about how much extra they seem to do in lieu of game viewing. Have talked to Ker & Downey, Micato, CCafrica, also talked to ulusaba in SA (10 year olds free). Anyone traveled to either or both with kids. Any thoughts?

annhig

Hi tbug,

we went to SA with our kids [a bit older than yours, being 16 & 19 at the time] and they loved it. I'd started off with the idea of a safari in east africa, but after their input, we changed the plan to include a range of activities including 3 days safari. [out of a 12 day trip].

that proved to be a perfect balance for us - a whole holiday spent on safari might prove too much for the kids especially the younger ones. ours certainly enjoyed the variety available in SA [whale watching, the penguins, cheetah experience, table mountain, etc. etc. plus bungy jumping] and I was very glad that we hadn't tried to inflict a whole 10 day safari upon them.

do think carefully before you commit to spending the whole time on safari - it could be a disaster, and the animals will stil be there another time if they want to go back.

regards, ann

sandi

For about $1,000/nt/person Adult at Ulasaba, it's nice of them to extend the child sharing to 10/years. Most camps cut off at 3/yrs, some at 6/yrs, then the discounts kick in.

Where, depends on when you plan to travel (month and year), often determines the best place for game and the weather. Also your budget, which has to take into consideration whether you're driving from place to place, flying or a combo of each.

East Africa does a very good job with Family Safaris and can include cultural visits, such as villages or schools or orphanages; time in the cities, game viewing. You decide what you feel best for your family and tell the tour operator.

There are a number of threads here of families traveling with children, even young ones. Do a search on this board for more details. Better, check out the East Africa Trip Report Index that LyndaS (enter her name in box above, click search... her threads will appear in left column). Scan thru the trip reports for those traveling with children.

atravelynn

http://fodors.com/forums/threadselec...p;tid=34980156

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=35116081

Here are some of those links mentioned. They contain links to even more threads.

If your kids like really wildlife, then I would not be as concerned with alternative activities. If they are so-so about it then, definitely do some non-game activities.

Poppins

When you are traveling makes a big difference too as you will want to avoid rainy seasons etc.

Combining Cape Town, Garden Route, Kruger and Vic Falls works well for lots of activities for the kids.

How long are you intending to spend on holiday?

tbug

Thanks for the threads they were helpful. As much as I loved East Africa I think that SA may be best for my crowd. Ann your trip sounds very appealing. Any insights into how much time is needed in each place and time of year would be greatly appreciated. I am looking at @ 10-12 day trip depending on the arrangements and price preferably between June - Aug. Poppins don't know your time zone but I like talking to people at 4 in the morning about travel when it is all quiet here. Thoughts toward time of year and must sees?

tbug

Poppins also saw you are headed to SA in May to Ulusaba ... and been around Africa a good bit (I am so jealous) any preference in lodges for kids.
Is it best to contact the lodges directly to set up flights ...or to work with a SA or US tour company.

sundowner

I took my 9 & 11 yr olds to MalaMala (SA) for 5 nights in 2006 and they loved it. From there we went to a private cattle ranch in Namibia and did game drives, hikes, climbing kopjes, an overnight to Etosha, etc and they never tired of the safari/outdoor experiences. I'm taking the older one (now 13) to Mashatu Tented Camp (Botswana) and MalaMala again this June. She is really looking forward to it. Children under 12 (not including 12) are half price at MM. Good luck planning your trip!

annhig

Hi again, tbug,

we went in July 2007, so bang in the middle of the period you are considering. it is the winter in SA, but in the main we enjoyed weather that is similar to an english spring.

this is what we did:

Days 1-4 in CPT, seeing table mountain, kirstenbosch gardens, a walk around town including the Slave house, and a day trip to the cape via boulder's beach to see the penguins. to really enjoy it, you need a mniumumof 3 whole days in CPT.

DAys 4-6 - to Grootbos [look it up on the net at www.grootbos.za] via the winelands and hermanus. Grootbos is a "flower reserve" on te hsouth coast past hermanus. vey pleasant but frankly over-priced and I wouldn't recommend for your brood as we didn't find it very family friendly. i'm sure that there are other places to the north [?ootsdorn way] which would be better so you could see the Kango caves, ostrich farms etc.

Days 7-9 - plettenberg bay. a great family place to stay with loads to do for families - elephant, monkey, bird and snake reserves, bungy jumping [15 year old only] whale watching, the featherbed reserve at knysna - a good 3 days' worth. there are lots of threads you can search for accommodation suggestions. we stayed at a really great plce called Hog Hollow but i frankly would not recommend it for a family with kids the age of yours.

DAys 10-12 - safari. we did 2 nights at a place called Schotia, where we stayed in huts in the bush without electricity. it was magical. i would highly recommend this place, though I'm not sure if pone hut could accommodate all 6 of you - you might have to put one adult in with two kids - ours were older for we were happy to leave them to their own devises.

we then spent 2 nights at Shamwari. again not for a family with kids the ages of yours IMO - addo elephant park might be better, but there are many other options including self-catering - see www.sanparks.za.

then we flew home from Jo'berg via Port Elizabeth.

hope this helps, feel free to come back with other Qs,

regards, ann

mkhonzo

Tbug, have a look at this one: http://www.nationalgeographicexpeditions.com/590.html

You need to be one of the privileged few...

Poppins

Annhig, your trip would work very well for a family with younger kids, just swap out Hog Hollow for the amazingly child friendly Kurland and use Lalibela Marks Camp for your safari (near Shamwari but with a great kids program).

Only thing with this itinerary is that you could be very unlucky with the weather in the winter season.

For a 10 day trip, I would consider combining 2 camps in the Kruger with the Vic Falls.

tbug, your kids are old enough to really enjoy the activities at the Vic Falls. They will have a blast.

Great family lodges are Honeyguide Khoka Moya and Ulusaba. Both have superb kids programmes. Your kids however are old enough to enjoy a safari without a kids program, so you may consider a combination instead of perhaps Khoka Moya and possibly something cheaper than Ulusaba in the Sabi Sands (unless your budget is very high). Exeter River Lodge is always a good option for value for money and great game viewing.

Usually it works out cheaper to book lodges through an operator. I am not that clued up on US operators, but certainly most of the South African tour opertators would be able to give you a better deal than if you book directly with the lodge.

tbug, I am in South Africa so in full swing at work when you are getting up!

tbug

Thanks for the great input. Ulusaba recommended the operator Rhino Africa out of Cape Town. I spoke with them and they seem quite knowledgeable and competitive. Has anyone ever dealt with them? Ann thanks for your details and thoughts on your great trip. Poppins I am inclined to follow your suggestion of Vic Falls (maybe day trip to Chobe @ a 90 min. ride) and ending in Kruger. I have been reading up on activities at/around Vic Falls and it does sound great for my active kids - anyone done the elephant ride, zipline, kayaking, market or other activities? I am watching the news re Zimbabwe - does it help to stay on the Zambia side of the falls?

skibumette

Problems in Zimbabwe seem to be in Harare -- quite a distance from Vic Falls. During winter there will be more water over the Falls on the Zimbabwe side...

Poppins

Vic Falls is fine at this stage. But you can stay on the Zambian side for peace of mind. You can always do a day tour over to the Zim side if you want to.

A great operator out of Cape Town (and with an office in the UK) that specialises in families is Cedarberg Travel. http://www.cedarberg-travel.com/ The staff at Ulusaba would know them as well if you need a reference.

tbug

I was trying to plan for June/July 2008 but I believe I must switch gears to 2009 just tough to settle in on the specifics and the pickins seem to be getting slim for a party of 6. As I indicated we are a party of 6 - parents (a very reluctant husband ...) a very game mother, plus 4 very adventurous fun loving kids ages 15 boy, 12 boy, 10 boy and 10 girl. It is 9:00 on Sunday morning and the kids are currently chasing a porcupine around our property taking 50 plus pictures and herding him back to the game refuge our property abuts so he does not get the dog again. I cannot imagine they would like anything better than Africa.

After reading all your posts I want to go everywhere in Africa. Lots of self imposed pressure for the first trip because I don't want it to be our only. I would like them to come away having been to quentissential Africa. I would like to stay in places and deal with people who not only tolerate but enjoy and want kids. Big difference because as enjoyable and perfect as my children are when I or others chose to be in a kidless environment they should be. I talked to some tour companies who indicated with 6 (maybe 7 my mother may join us) we could request a private vehicle but when I talked to the properties ie. Ulusaba they said they can not guarantee it? Anyone have any experience in this area. Is it on a case by case basis? Do I need to pay extra? It would seem to me to be a shame to have that large a party and not have a private option. I was hoping having a car to ourselves would allow us to be a bit more flexible in length of drives, interest. Is that a correct assumption?

I would like a smaller intimate feel, no big lodges if I can help it (I know that is more $$$$ but I think maybe less time but better quality or some more expensive mixed with some less.) I also really like when there are the sounds of the bush at night around the lodge or game viewing from the lodge itself. I am guessing you need to stay at least 2-3 nights each place to get a decent feel and not feel like we are just packing and unpacking. Would love to stay for weeks at each like many I've read but currently don't have the time nor funds for that. I am thinking my children's appetite for viewing would be 3-4 days at a stretch so they will need some variation ie. viewing by boat, cultural visits, animal orphanage (some hands on), elephant rides, given their ages not too many places will allow them to walk too far.

2 trip options as I see it SA (with Botswana) or Tanzania

1 SA with options

Sabi Sands 3-4 days suggestions on child friendly property - Kirkmans (has anyone stayed there since it is a CCA property) or any other CCA property, Mala Mala, Ulusaba (seems they cater to kids)

Phinda 2-3 best lodge for game viewing? for kids? Boats beaches, anyone visit the medicine man and the village?

Chobe 2-3 days Chilwera, Lodge? best for kids? Would love to visit all of Bots but really $$$$ especially times 6. 4x4 alternatives Night cruise boats

Vic Falls 2 days Zambia know the Zim side is best for viewing falls but not comfortable with Zim currently. Does anyone know which side maybe both have elephant walks?
Best accomodation for kids? Hate to but maybe just skip for now until things settle. Would seem like a great combination with Chobe.

Love the thought of Cape town just trying to prioritize. Big mistake to skip?

Think a combination of Vic Falls, Chobe, Sabi or Phinda, Sabi is better?

Major benefit to me of much of SA is with private reserves abitlity to go off road and get up close and personal with the game.

That being said

2 East Africa with options

Would love to revisit Kenya combined with Tanzania but given the turmoil not loving the thought of selling Kenya to my husband right now and I am sure Tanzania alone would be wonderul.


Tanzania - Western Serengeti 3-4 days -
Stay at Grumeti River or Kleins or both if they are different enough (like to do business with CCA given all the great things they do in Africa and their seemingly great interest in children at many of their properties).

Crater 2 nights Gibbs or Lemala (tents right on Rim too cold?)

Tarangire 2 nights

Visit Masaai Village

Having trouble with varying the itinery. I have a friend who visited the Singita property with fantastic horse rides in the private reserve said it was the be all ... but big bucks. Also great guide named Lee Fuller there if you get the chance to go) Unless anyone knows of any deals no can do. Any animal "orphanges" or any other thoughts would be greatly appreciated?

Advantage of Tanzania abundance of animals and sheer vastness of the plains. Question if you "miss the migration" which seems to be more of a certainty than a possibilty for a 10-14ish day trip, how abundant is the resident game? My mom went to the Crater a few years back and on day 1 same NO game and on day 2 tons. Asssuming competent guides, can you increase your chances anywhere? Like most I would hate to have a day of nothing. Luck I suppose just something you have to be willing to accept.

It is no longer 9:00 Sunday morning - chime in on any or all thanks so much.

annhig

Hi again, tbug,

i would definitely NOT skip CPT. it is a great place to get your africa feet. we found the Radisson very family-friendly but I'm sure there are other places just as good.

I would try to have a mix of activities. you may find that you and your kdis love the safaris so much, you could happily spend your whole time there. OR NOT. there was a family at Schotia with us whose girls [13 & 15 going on 20 & 22] were having the worst time. they sat at the back of the landrover worrying about their hair. i apreciate that your kids may not be like that but they may still not enjoy day after day of looking at animals, espoecially if t heanimals won't come out to play, or it is wet/cold/hot/windy etc. etc.

you say your kids are adventurous - that suggests to me that they like doing, not watching, which is what a safari mainly is.

as you are putting off your trip to 2009, this gives you a window to research activities aimed at kids, like the blukrans bungy jump [your kids may be too young, I can't remember the age limits] the tsittsikama tree-top walk, whale watching, etc. etc.

also i would be very surprised if you could not find somewhere that could guarentee a private vehicle for your party. alternatively you could self-cater and self-drive - you could look at www.sanparks.za for properties that you can rent, even at Kruger.

good luck,

regards, ann

atravelynn

I hope you can convince Grandma to go so there will be more family members in on the fun and on the photo sharing and discussions that will last for years afterward. Plus with 7, you ARE a private vehicle. There’s no room for anyone else. If a lodge would not guarantee you a private vehicle with 6, then I feel sorry for person #7. That’s no slight to your family, but who wants to be the add-on to a family outing?

You certainly can pay for a private vehicle, but I think with 6 most places would grant you one.

Sabi Sands 3-4 days:

I saw several families with young kids at Mala Mala Main Camp. There is a pool and Internet for short uses plus an exercise room. Don’t know if they do anything specifically for kids. You could stay at Sable or Rattray’s (more $) and have Internet and I think TV in your room. Don’t know if you even want them using Internet or TV on safari. Maybe the reluctant dad would like that, though.

I'm sure CC Africa could help you out on what to do with kids in the Sabi Sands during down time. They can work on their Zulu animal names and write journals, for a couple of things. Or have them learn some birds if you bring a bird book.

Phinda 2-3 best lodge for game viewing? for kids? Boats beaches, anyone visit the medicine man and the village?:

I only stayed at Forest Lodge but there were safe trails you could walk on without escort through the sand forest and look at monkeys, antelope, birds, etc. There was a pool. I canoed with a guide, which was beautiful. There is a boat, but when the river is low during the dry season, it does not always run. There was an interesting midday visit (so you don’t miss any game activities) to the village psychic (your reference to the medicine man, but it was a she) and to other homesteads nearby. You can snorkel I believe and go horseback riding, plus there is Flight of the Eagle, an aerial safari where you look for whales and such in the water.


Chobe 2-3 days Chilwera, Lodge? best for kids:

Chobe Game Lodge would be less expensive and might allow them to roam around a bit more than the camp, Chobe Chilwero. The boats take off from Chobe Game Lodge This park combines well with Vic Falls.


Vic Falls 2 days Zambia know the Zim side is best for viewing falls but not comfortable with Zim currently. Does anyone know which side maybe both have elephant walks?:

I think it is just the Zim side that does the elephant riding. But you could stay on Zam side and go over for an activity. I had read that there were questions and conservation concerns on where the operator, Safari Par Excellence got the riding elephants.


Love the thought of Cape town just trying to prioritize. Big mistake to skip?:

From a kids’ standpoint, it has the penguins and you could do whale watching or see Great White Sharks. If doing the sharks, I’d book more than once because weather or seas can cancel an outing, especially June-Aug, which is probably when you’d be going, and also some of the best times to see sharks. At a winery, Spiers, you can pet a cheetah or two. Of all your places, I'd skip this one, again with kids in mind.


Think a combination of Vic Falls, Chobe, Sabi or Phinda, Sabi is better?:

Vic Falls and Chobe, then Sabi Sands would make a nice trip. If you could include Phinda too, that would be outstanding.
1 Arrive Vic Falls
2 Vic Falls
3-4 Chobe
5 to SA
6-7-8 Phinda
9 transit—you can fly direct but it is costly, maybe for 6 or 7 you could get a deal.
10-11-12 Sabi Sands
Add 4 for travel and that’s 16 days


Major benefit to me of much of SA is with private reserves abitlity to go off road and get up close and personal with the game:

Yes, but I have rarely felt hampered in reserves or parks where you cannot off-road. I cannot think of a single shot that I would have gotten if only we could have mowed down vegetation and gone off road in pursuit of an animal.


That being said
2 East Africa with options
Would love to revisit Kenya combined with Tanzania but given the turmoil not loving the thought of selling Kenya to my husband right now and I am sure Tanzania alone would be wonderul:

TZ alone would indeed be wonderful. June or July would be great.


Tanzania - Western Serengeti 3-4 days -Stay at Grumeti River or Kleins or both if they are different enough (like to do business with CCA given all the great things they do in Africa and their seemingly great interest in children at many of their properties):

In June-July Grumeti. For variety of accommodation, experience and for that “quintessential Africa” you mentioned, you could do a CCA Africa mobile tented camp in Tanzania—Tanzania under Canvas or TUC. It follows the migrating herds. In June-July, it would likely be near Grumeti.

But you could do a central Serengeti location along with a migration location to increase your odds of animals. Maybe Kleins is considered Central.


Crater 2 nights Gibbs or Lemala (tents right on Rim too cold?):

Tents are cold there and at the crater don’t offer the advantage of animals roaming around them.

Gibbs is lovely and outstanding food. I like Sopa Lodge because of its own access road in/out of crater. Beautiful views of the crater from many if not all rooms. Your own fireplace.


Tarangire 2 nights
Visit Masaai Village
Having trouble with varying the itinery. I have a friend who visited the Singita property with fantastic horse rides in the private reserve said it was the be all ... but big bucks. Also great guide named Lee Fuller there if you get the chance to go) Unless anyone knows of any deals no can do. Any animal "orphanges" or any other thoughts would be greatly appreciated?:

If you cannot afford the most expensive options, no problem. Cost does not automatically equate to more wildlife. It means fancier accommodations.

For an animal orphange you can try DeWlidt in Johannesburg. It is easy to arrange a half day trip from an airport hotel. But check carefully what days they are open. It's not every day. You could also try Rhino & Lion Park. That's where I went when DeWildt did not fit my plans. Again, an easy half day trip from Joburg.


Advantage of Tanzania abundance of animals and sheer vastness of the plains. Question if you "miss the migration" which seems to be more of a certainty than a possibilty for a 10-14ish day trip, how abundant is the resident game?:

Even if you miss the bulk of the migration, if you stay in the right general area, you are likely to see big herds. I’ve seen lots of resident lions, and a cheetah and poor views of a leopard when we were not near the migration in the Serengeti.


My mom went to the Crater a few years back and on day 1 same NO game and on day 2 tons. Asssuming competent guides, can you increase your chances anywhere? Like most I would hate to have a day of nothing. Luck I suppose just something you have to be willing to accept:

Nothing in the crater??? Perhaps nothing during a downpour or windstorm, but that's a real rarity. I’ve never been out in East Africa and seen nothing. There are always antelope, monkeys, zebras, etc. Not every game drive has cats or dogs, though.

You are right about a good guide and that's why booking with a reputable company is good.


It is no longer 9:00 Sunday morning - chime in on any or all thanks so much:

Nevermind the time, where is the porcupine?

KayeN

Hi tbug

I travel with my nieces about twice a year. The youngest I have taken is 8 and the oldest 23.

In the first couple of trips, I went from camp to camp to camp to camp - lots of travelling and lots of money spent travelling in between camps.

Now I only do one reserve. I can very easily spend 3 weeks in one camp and so can all the girls. They all love it,though probably not as much as me!

Six people is definitely a private vehicle - and I am surprised that it would be in doubt. I have been to Ulusaba in 2001, and I am surprised to hear it called a child friendly camp. While I enjoyed my stay, I doubt I would return as it was very expensive.

I would limit the travelling as I feel kids like to feel a bit settled and in my experience, it has always really bumped up the cost of the trip.

Kind regards

Kaye

tbug

Poppins - thanks for the Cedarberg tip I haven't talked to them yet but their website has been very helpful.

Ann - thank you I am looking into options and age appropriate activities.

Kaye - I have seen from previous posts that you have been with your nieces to Mala Mala and Ulusaba and ... (lucky nieces). I read from another post a family went to the lodges back to back and he indicated while the quantity of game was greater at Mala Mala from a quality standpoint he was torn, maybe slightly favoring Ulusaba - cubs, kills, variety of animals... certainly wonderful game-viewing at both.

My husband -him again- loves his wine and a workout not priorites on safari to me but if I can include them with little to no downside in game viewing it is a win-win and lord knows we love to keep him happy.

I am interested in lodge activities like the ability to view wildlife from the lodge because unlike probably most of us who would never return to the lodge if we didn't need food and sleep, the kids probably won't want to extend our game drives. I don't care about outlets or tvs we have traveled plenty and they don't use them once we arrive. (However they are a godsend for long plane and car rides.) I want my kids to roam and learn and ask the guides, staff, cooks ... the 50 million questions (esp. boy #3) they ask my husband and me and let them earn their tip.

Ulusaba has a telescope, my kids love checking out the stars. Some lodges arrange campfires, sleepouts (although I am pretty sure that adventure would end mid-night for 2 of them), animal tracking, cooking (CCA is known for letting them help out in the kitchen, fixing trucks).

Ann your point of spending a little more time in 1 place is well taken. I just hate to be so close and ... all nice problems to have.

Lynne - Atravelynne-no offense taken I was wondering the same thing. Who would want to be in a vehicle with the likes of us? Really. It's like when we traveled when the kids were little and they didn't have 6 seats together on the plane, people couldn't swap away fast enough.

Thank you all for your thoughts on various areas and lodges I will do some homework. I think Phinda may in fact be a great mix of game and other activities, allowing us some flexility. Is there a Phinda lodge that is better for families? And just to comment on my politically incorrect reference to the medicine man - that is how CCA referred to "her".

More questions to follow. Thanks for all you help.

Oh yes, the porcupine was herded safely into the woods and no sign of him today, but they are pesky little creatures I expect to see him again soon.

pippa13

pls think twice about elephant riding!
all these EBS-operators have got the reputation of kidnapping baby elis in order to enlarge their operation!
i would arther advise you to do a horse back safari in lesotho!