Congratulations to South Africa
 

Huge congratulations to South Africa from a Scotsman !!!!

Well done...magnificent achievement. Super 14 winners and world champions...I'm very much looking forward to my visit to my 2nd favourite country at the end of this year.

By the way, you owe us a beer, as Scotland was cheering you on, en masse !!

p.S. To my English cousins...my commiserations. Not the best team, but the best tournament mentality. A huge achievement to reach the final, but I'm afraid the best team won..

WOOHOO! Way to go Springboks!

Selwyn must be over the moon!

Well done SA !!

All of Wales was behind you too !!!

YES YES YES !!

Muck

I swear I saw Selwyn being interviewed on ITV last week before the semi-final.

It looked like him, and he talked about being 'proudly South African'.

Maybe..maybe if he reads this, he can confirm if it was him or not !

Note to all South Africans : When I turn up in Cape Town in 6 weeks time, I'm SCOTTISH...not English !

We're the one's that are delighted for you..please tell the difference ! :-)))

Hey,

Congratulations, SA!!! It's best that they keep winning the rugby and continue to choke out of the cricket world cups.......

;) ;)

Oh no you d'iint!

Reminds me of the day we ran into a South African guide in the middle of nowhere in Botswana. He wasted no time in telling us the Springboks had just beaten the Wallabies. It didn't really matter that we cared nothing about rugby, as Aussie Rules is our sport...but it's another of the many reasons why I try to go where communications with the outside world are as difficult as possible ;)

John

True ;)

Hari,

My TA has just returned from his latest Africa jaunt, about his third for the year...this time Kaingo (SLNP), Samburu (Kenya), Savuti and Zibalianja (Bots). He's a mad Rules fan and happens to support the team which won the championship this year...he was in Samburu when the grand final was played, and explained with his usual dry humour that coverage of the match there was as scarce as hen's teeth. As it should be...anybody who goes to see African wilderness areas yet still wants to remain in touch with home has an elevator which doesn't go to the top floor ;)

John

Hi John,

I remember during the 2003 World cup, we were at a lodge in the SSGR and they had a huge tv in the lounge for siesta hour and although i don't remember watching India play on tv ..... i vaguely remember a huge gathering for the SA game.

That was the same year, we got butchered by the aussies in the finals!

Hari

Hi all,

Macsporran, no that was not me in the ITV interview last week.

To say that I am over the moon as far as the Springbok WC victory is concerned would be the understatement of the year. We have been working towards winning this title for the past 4 years and now that we have won it I am so happy for the team, managament and every South Afican who supports the Springboks.

We were in Franschhoek for the weekend and watched the game in the town. You have no idea how worked up everybody was. In the morning before the game I even saw a man with his golden retriever where the dog's tail, forehead and part body was spray painted green so as to emulate the green and gold colours of our team. Everybody was sporting Springbok rugby jerseys and SA flags were flying everywhere. Then came the game with victory to the Boks and the celebrations tripled. We eventually got to bed at 03H00. A night never to be forgotten.

Now that we have won the world cup from what I have read the SA team will be splitting up in all directions going to play for foreign clubs etc. This could jeapordise their chances of playing in Springbok colours again however as much as I was enthralled with what happened yesterday I also believe that because of this potentioal breakup of the squad we are now at a crossroad to steadily change our team compliment in South Africa. If you look at the Springbok rugby team it is 90% white and thus being in a country where 85% of the people are of colour there certainly is something wrong in the racial makeup of our squad. If rugby administrators tell me that there are no talented black players in SA I would not believe them. I come from a HUGE rugby background and I think I have a pretty good idea of how the administrators of the game think. There are certainly some who would agree with me and others who would also agree but would do nothing about matters with regard to development of the sport. In the past two years there have been enormous strides made in terms of developing the sport for all and many of our provincial teams sport quite a number of players of all races and creeds. I do believe that this will result in a more reperesentative team, chosen on merit, in years to come and I can but only hope that this will be the case. When this well represented squad then win the world cup in New Zealand in 2011 (My wife, two friends and myself are hoping to follow the Springbok team for this tournament through New Zealand) then I truly will be even more proud (if that were possible) of the new Springbok team than the world victors right now. All I am saying is that we are now very proudly the world champions for the next 4 years and I hope that we capitalise on this situation to have an even more representative team in the future. So the next time you read about the Springbok team at a world cup I dont think you will hear that John Smit (who has been an outstanding rugby player and an incredible leader)is our captain but rather a young up and coming player by name of Chillyboy Ralepelle. :)

Thanks for all the congratulations on the is board. I am sure that other South Africans will thank you all too. We all feel great and very happy right now.

Very very very proudly part of the wonderful ((r))nation of South Africa

I just downed a Springbok and toasted SA! Good onya! ((y))

Selwyn

Typical response....not representative?

Is the NBA representative of the US population?.Remember Selwyn"white men can't jump''

You really make me sick with your political words of wisdom-stick to being a guide,apparently you are good at that.

""hUGE RYGBY BACKGROUND""-PLEASE SAVE US!!!

Anyway-Go bokke!!,maybe for the last time -who knows?

What makes Selwyn such a fantastic guide is his thorough understanding of the racial and political history of South Africa. I, for one, gained tremendously from his insight and am honored that he shared his thoughts with me. You would benefit from spending a day or two with him. He might open your eyes and mind just a tad.

I'll let Selwyn tell you about his rugby background.

Thanks for the support Hills 27.

Safarinut,

You say "white men cant jump"! Well ask Victor Matfield if this is true. :) For those who dont know Victor Matfield is a Springbok who is without peer in the world of rugby when it comes to lineout jumping. Furthermore I would argue that as a lock forward, which is the position that he plays in the Springbok side, he is the best in the world. To this I have to add that he just happens to be white in pigmentation :) :) In summary and in my opinion sportsmen are not good at what they do because of the colour of their skin and if you feel differently Safarinut then so be it.


Anyway I have to agree with Safarinut in that I dont think that the debate about the colour of SA rugby players should be on this travel page and my apologies for bringing up the subject initially. My feelings re my first posting most certainly have not changed but I do believe that my withdrawal from the debate on this subject in this forum is appropriate as there is a place for all discussions and this debate should probably be taking place in another forum such as a sports blog.
etc.

Once again my huge thanks to all Fodorites for their congratulatiory notes on our SA World cup win.

Just my twopence worth.

Very proudly part of the wonderful ((r))nation of South Africa

Hi Selwyn,

I confess i bearly know much about the rugby, but, have been following the results as i know one or two die hard springbok fans in SA ......

I firmly believe the best team should take the field in any sport regardless of race or religion or color. It's best to lift the game of whatever minority and then draft them into the squad. That makes more sense.

For example, when i was in Durban during the 2003 cricket world cup, i was shocked when lots of Indians who were born and brought up in SA were not rooting for SA. Their logic being, Indians/South Asians never got a shot in the national team. Then in recent times, there has been Hashim Amla (South Asian decent) and he hasn't been nearly good enough. He is lucky to have been born in SA, as he would hv never made any of our teams ......

I think it's great they weren't rooting for the SA team. Sports decisions are driven by fan support and economics. If fans aren't supporting a team, then it will have to change.

Come on Guys, How old was Stein in 1994,
So he is the wrong colour and should not play for his country?
How many ex South Africans in the USA team, the England, Australia, and Frensh team?
Its a professional Sport.
Best should get selected. Same in soccer in SA and all pro sports.

The best should be selected, but we should also build skills among underrepresented populations. Look what Tiger Woods is doing for golf. Not only does he sponsor clinics and golf programs for minorities, but he's brought a whole new fan base to the game, making the sport even more profitable.

But what I think Selwyn was saying (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that there is a growing pool of talented players who are making it to the big league because of their color.

The difference is Tiger Woods is THE BEST!!!

Think about people like Kevin Peterson or Andrew Strauss etc etc., playing for other countries now. You can't possibly tell anyone in SA that they aren't as good as Amla or Prince or Philander (who cost them that T20 game vs India). Unless, a team wins ..... you aren't going generate interest from the public and the motivation to want to play for your team.

Hari

Safarinut,

There has been a request from Mark at Taga for you to contact him. Apparently, he is crazy about the rugby and delighted with the win. He says that he doesnt have your current email address and that he doesn't post on the boards anymore! so pl contact him if you wish to!

Hari

Hills27

That is not what Selwyn meant,he wants there to be quotas in our National rugby team.

I am all for developing rugby in the townships,and if our best 15 players are black-great!I will be cheering just as hard as ever!

This is not what our stupid minister of sport wants however,he wants there to be 10 players of colour at any given time,even if they are not chosen on merrit.

He even threatened to take their passports away before the world cup because the team was not representative of the population of SA.?????????

Our rugby team has won the world cup twice now in 4 attempts-not bad for such a dysfunctional organisation he!

The goverment should focus their energy on helping our soccer team,lots of work to do before the 2010 world cup.

Oh,and by the way,they could try harder on fighting crime seeing that another south african legend(Lucky Dube)was murdered last week.


Hari-thanks I will contact him.

Where does Selwyn say he thinks they should have quotas?

Quotas shmotas. A friend just sent me an mp3 of "Gee die bal vir Brian" and I sat here laughing.

Hey Gardyloo, did you see that you were quoted in one of the recently published guide? You get a free guide.

I did not want to continue in this debate, as already stated in an earlier email, but as I have been horribly misquoted I want to enter the discussion once more in the form of a once off mail to try and put the record straight. I want to reiterate that the board has my apologies for having opened this discussion on a travel board as I don’t think that this is the place for such a discussion.

In response to Safarinut re your statement about my rugby background I was a Craven week player representing Boland Schools in the 67-68 period. After Craven week I learnt much about rugby under Doc Craven at Stellenbosch University. A man whose name might ring a bell to you viz Morne Du Plessis, was my captain in our under 20 team. Do you even remember these names or recognise the value of their as well as the universities input when it comes to rugby? These days I am still involved with club rugby administration let alone the fact that I watch live rugby sometimes up to twice a week (club and provincial games). I have 2 debenture seats on the half way line at Newlands when it comes to provincial, super 14 and test matches and what's more is my wife is even madder about the game than me. :) So yes I am a rugby nut, am proud of it and lay claim to a HUGE rugby background with great pride. How about your background seeing that you challenged my rugby background statement?

Safarinut I strongly suggest that you state facts as opposed to absolute trash sometimes. The statement of withdrawing passports to the Springbok side was NOT made by the minister of sport Makhenkesi Stofile. It was made by Butana Komphelais, a somewhat obscure ANC parliamentarian who happens to be chairperson of the parliamentary portfolio on Sport and Recreation. Once the statement was made the Department of sport quite vehemently distanced themselves from it saying that it was political grandstanding. As a matter of fact I read reports that Komphelais was seen capitalizing on his political position by being at the World Cup final. That’s politicians for you.

I have no idea where the idea even comes from that I am in favour of quotas in sport because let me state quite categorically that <b> I am NOT in favour of a quota system in South African sport. </b>. What I would like to see happen is that now that we have the status of world champions we capitalize on this situation by doing something to change the makeup of our national rugby team so that it is more representative of who we are and in this regard I once again say when you see a national rugby team with two black or coloured faces in it and the country has a 85% black and coloured structure then something certainly is wrong,. Furthermore Safarinut’s statement of “the white men cant jump” theory in my opinion borders on racism that is if it is not racist anyway. I don’t subscribe to this theory at all.

What I think should happen in SA right now is that we should take actions similar to the following:

1. We should start up rugby clubs in black townships and put some serious money behind these clubs. We should also ensure that top players are used to go to these clubs and help out with coaching and motivation

2. We should start handing out free rugby balls to all schools in townships so that young kids could start playing and enjoying the game.

3. The victorious Springbok team should concentrate more on visiting black schools in the next couple of months than going to schools in white suburbs. The kids will hero worship the men in green and gold and this will encourage them to play rugby too.

4. SA Rugby should start broadcasting more high profile rugby games on SATV 1,2 and 3 so as to bring free TV games to the black South African public and not paid TV games which they cant afford. If there is no money for these broadcasts forthcoming from the rugby board then the department of sport should put their money where there mouth is and foot the bill

The above are only some of the suggestions that I would make to change matters so as to bring the team into a more representative format. There are many other similar ideas that could be utilised however this is not the forum to discuss this in my opinion. All that my original mail to this forum was saying is now that we are the world champions we should recognise that we do not have a true representative team and should use this golden opportunity to start doing repairs to the situation. When the World Cup campaign started one of the slogans used to motivate all was “the time is now”. When this was said I thought it sounded catchy but was meaningless. Now that we have won the world cup I think South Africans had better realize that if we do not make changes starting <b>now</b> we wont be at the world cup in 2019 anyway and the reason would be simple viz. the majority of South Africans wont want us to be there. So in my opinion it is a case of strike while the iron is hot and to start with the first factor that needs to be addressed should be the discarding of the &quot;white men cant jump&quot; theory.

Hari as far as cricket is concerned I don’t believe that quotas are what drive the makeup of the teams. Yes in the beginning it was the case however now matters have equalized and the fact that we lost to India can be blamed on amongst others Philander’s performance but not on the fact that he is of colour. I have seen greater players than Philander lose games for their country. That’s how sport works. May I remind you that we lost a player like Kevin Petersen to England because he was kept out of the KZN team due to a white player being selected ahead of him by the “old boys club” or so he says. I am not sure if he is correct in his statement but if he was correct then all I can say is that here we have another prime example as to why the game and its administrators need to change their way of thinking when it comes to sport in SA however to this I might add that it seems as if SA cricket has done just that.

Safarinut, in closing, you accuse me of political claptrap however I suggest you look at your own writings before you make such statements especially when you misquote others be it me or for that matter the SA minister of sport.

Now I am hopefully finally out of here unless some bright spark tries to read my mind and misquotes me again.

PS. I see the Springboks have just received a wonderful and well deserved, tumultuous welcome at OR Tambo airport in Johannesburg a couple of minutes ago. On Monday they will be in Cape Town and I will be in the streets of our city to welcome them too. With all of the above said heres hoping that when the national team returns from New Zealand in 2011 they will once again be holding the Webb Ellis trophy and that the Springboks will look a lot more representative of the racial makeup of our great land.

Very proudly part of the wonderful ((r))nation of South Africa

Selwyn, with your rugby background from the 60's (which is when I also played, albeit at a very low level), you will remember that as a time when rugby players (of whatever colour) HAD to be able to jump, or at least in the lineout. Because &quot;lifting&quot; wasn't allowed. Whereas now it's more dependent on their teammates strength and lifting ability. :-)

ArthurSA

Touche! Loved the response. :)

Very proudly part of the wonderful ((r))nation of South Africa

Selwyn

&lt;&lt;If you look at the Springbok rugby team it is 90% white and thus being in a country where 85% of the people are of colour there certainly is something wrong in the racial makeup of our squad&gt;&gt;

Sounds to me like you support the idea of quotas.

As to misquoting the minister of sports,forgive me,but you have to admit that it is hard to keep up with what idiot said what exactly,be it that HIV does not cause AIDS,South Africa does not have a crime problem or the idea of quotas in our National teams.

It was nice to see Pres Mbeki rejecting the idea of quotas.

And, congratulations to the SA cricket team. I have to correct myself here ...... having seen many SA teams choke the big game, i think they turned this one around! To win at our neighbors next door is not easy - tough place to visit and win and they did just that!!!

Congratulations!!!

South African, Gary Kirsten is the next cricket coach for our Indian cricket team.

However, he starts full time responsibility only after our long series in Australia.

Hari

PS: Maybe he fears the aussies??? Doesnt sound too good......

ooohhhhhh anything can be turned political...we won we love it, lets be happy!

Selwyn.
I have new found respect for you... as an Englishman making Craven week is a HUUUUGE accolade and particularly in the Boland! Well done you have evry reason to be proud of yourself.

The only &quot;issue&quot; that I have is the reference to &quot;WE&quot;. It is time that people were empowered to do it for themselves!