Classic Hunting Safaris site completey taken down?!

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Apr 1st, 2004, 06:03 PM
  #1
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Classic Hunting Safaris site completey taken down?!

Although it may be early to dance on their graves, it appears as if Classic Hunting Safaris has been taken down!

Will the other Fodorites reading this please try to access www.classichuntingsafaris.com and let me know if you have any luck?

I am really keeping my fingers crossed. It doesn't change the fact that the operators or Classic Africa are still two-faced double talking butchers, to be polite, but at least they are thinking twice about selling hunting safaris, at least with their pictures and biographies pasted all over the same website. But, as they say, a leopard does not change its spots, and I am sure they will emerge under a different name, if in fact they have taken down this site.

Isn't this fun?!
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Apr 1st, 2004, 06:05 PM
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This link still works, for now:

http://www.classichuntingsafaris.com/special.htm

However, I do think that this page is the last of the Mohicans, and I am sure it will soon be down, as well.

Take THAT Oxford scum!
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Apr 1st, 2004, 11:06 PM
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One other observation...on the Classic Africa website, they have removed mention of being the provider to the National Geographic Society for their Southern Africa safaris for 2004.

Hopefully National Geographic has reconsidered doing business with this outfit that is more out to make a buck than to preserve the Africa that we know and love.

Amazing at what a little talk on Fodor's Africa Forum can accomplish!
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Apr 2nd, 2004, 02:40 AM
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I wonder if they'll just change the name and then be more discreet?
 
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Apr 2nd, 2004, 07:48 AM
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Roccco,

As much as I think you are doing a great job on this whole expose may I suggest that you tone down your manner of writing on this subject. Whether it be said in jest or not I believe your ending line of "Take that Oxford scum" is way out of line and is NOT deserved of being published on this page no matter what you have exposed.

My feelings are that you have more than likely 99.99% exposed something that we all should know about however there is always the very ,very, very small possibility of you being wrong in your assumptions. With that said no matter whether you be wrong or right to end your mail with a line like the abovementioned is in my opinion on a par in its own context with African Classic safaris wrongdoing. As a matter of fact my opinion is that if you want to adopt this type of language then rather drop the whole expose because I dont need to read this type of language on this board. After all how would you have liked the exposer of the Enron scandal, as an example, to have ended a mail saying "take that you American scum" after he/she found out about the wrongdoings?

My suggestions are:

1. Stick to the expose (which overall I think is excellent work)

2. STOP GLOATING or BOASTING about what you are finding out. Be it in jest or not, calling yourself Rocccco Herreras is egotistical and ridiculous. It simply illustrates my point. May I remind you that all that you have done is a net search and found out something of importance to those of us who go on safaris. That?s it! Btw with that said I have to mention that I saw the Classic Africa double life story long long before you did and also found another one of what I believe is a crooked operation at the same time HOWEVER because I could not prove my points 100% conclusively I said nothing and will stay saying nothing for this very reason.

3. Dont count your chickens before they hatch. The "about us" downing of page is miles to early for you to call a victory. If you really think that your expose will bring Classic Africa safaris down then I will start laughing right now. You will imho do them damage on this board and at this stage I would venture into saying rightfully so HOWEVER do you really think that this will close down an operation like Classic safaris??. Do me a favour!! You seem to have typical "Roccco visions of grandeur" with this concept. To be quite honest all that I really believe will happen is that the hunting population who read this board have now via your expose simply found a great <sic> operator to suit their needs.

4. Tone down and write your mails in the true spirit of this board staying away from obscenities like "take that you Oxford scum".

Just my twopence worth.

Very proudly part of the wonderful nation of South Africa



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Apr 2nd, 2004, 07:57 AM
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Nothing wrong with what Roccco is doing in exposing a 'fraud' (a polite term for scum?). This is a matter that touches a lot more hearts and minds than you may appreciate. Classic Africa will hopefully suffer as it deserves to.
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Apr 2nd, 2004, 07:58 AM
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Apololgy.

In my aove mail I meant to type Rivera and not Herreras. My errror. Apologies.

Very proudly part of the wonderful nation of South Africa
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Apr 2nd, 2004, 08:09 AM
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Selwyn,

You said:

>>With that said no matter whether you be wrong or right to end your mail with a line like the abovementioned is in my opinion on a par in its own context with African Classic safaris wrongdoing.

Do you really believe that by calling the operators of Classic Africa "scum" that I am on their same level? Last time I checked, my name calling did not result in the deaths of any animals.

I really do think there has been WAY too much sensitivity on this board lately. Let us call 'em like we see 'em.

For the unfamiliar, Geraldo Rivera at one time was a respected journalist before deciding to sell out and cash in on his fame, and I was just making light of this by the reference of Rocco Rivera. Of course I do not think of myself as an esteemed investigative journalist, although I am sure that I would excel in such a position.

But back to the issue at hand, please do not put me in the same ballpark as Classic Africa. I have always been upfront with my intentions and never have hidden behind a facade. Nor do I enjoy the slaughter of beautiful animals that I also profit from on the other side.
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Apr 2nd, 2004, 08:09 AM
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King,

So does Roccos exposure of this person mean that he is a scum because he is Oxford trained? What about every other person in this world who is trained at Oxford. Therein lies the heart of what I am trying to say.

I have no problem with the exposure; I do however have HUGE problems with the above and in the process Rocccos huge BOASTING as if he is the mighty conquerer.

Sorry but my opinion is that the above is just not suitable for this board!

King in simple words how about if I end this mail, and I want to stress that this is for illustration purposes only, with the line

"take that you Fodorite scum"

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Apr 2nd, 2004, 08:23 AM
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Rocco-
Please be careful. When I was stock trading before the "crash", folks would knock a stock company trying to affect the stock price which in the long run would hurt the company. I know for a fact that more than one poster was carted off to prison. Really, when the stock company sued, the place we posted turned over all of their information and they were taken to court. One guy was scared out of his wits, and posted when he was served with papers.
If Classic Africa gets wind of this, much as that guy in Zambia did, this may not be easy to explain. Just do use caution. Selwyn gave you very sage advice and I think as long as this is legal activities they are doing, which it is, if you hurt their business, they could sue you. Sorry, but it is the truth. Liz
 
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Apr 2nd, 2004, 08:39 AM
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If he went to Oxford then he should have more sense than he posseses. I wonder how many Oxford graduates would be pro hunting ... However, what is even more senseless is that he is a Vet and still killing lions, leopards..! He is in my mind an Oxford 'fraud' but that does not imply all Oxford graduates are frauds. The term is used to magnify the point which is, why is this supposedly super-intelligent Vet from a respected university killing or assiting in killing endangered wildlife and at the same time hiding the real facts to the anti-hunt consumer?

Selwyn, honestly whatever the terms we have used here, the basic fact remains that this man from Classic Africa is exactly what he has been described as in various ways.He is not a Vet, he is not an animal lover as his web site portrays, he is definitely a ' '. What difference does it make what term we use for him, for he is not a very nice human being - as simple as that.
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Apr 2nd, 2004, 09:13 AM
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I typed anti hunt on google an came up with this result:

SAHC - Actively Campaigning against Hunt Scum in the South East
Fixture card, sabbing diary, newsletter, fox article, news reports, hall of shame and links. Concentrates...
www.sahc.org.uk/ - 2k - Cached - Similar pages

So Roccco someone's beaten you to it.
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Apr 2nd, 2004, 09:55 AM
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King,

Pity...they will have to sue that orginazation instead of me!
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Apr 2nd, 2004, 11:18 AM
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All I can say is that someone certainly seems to have lost what is supposed to be a sense of morality in these last couple of mails. You all talk about about the senselss shooting of animals and in the process you are in my opinion correct. With that said you seem to have gone off on a tangent which is worse than shooting animal and that is shooting the characters of totally innocent peoples. Lets start off th a couple of American presidents and British prime ministers, many other famous people and whoever else have attended Oxford university. When you shout out "Take that Oxford scum" you immediately include them whether you lkike that or not. Is that fair? Methinks certainly not.

King to make a statement such as you have viz: He is not a Vet, he is not an animal lover as his web site portrays, he is definitely a ' could land you in such hot soup because I definitely think he IS a vet and who knows if he is an animal lover. All I know is that you have in that statement opened yourself to a law suit whether you like it or not and I can but only hope that this does not happen or maybe you want to follow the big braggart words that Roccco has in his last mail where he says that he is sorry that he missed out on being sued. What a childish thing to say. With all that you are all saying about hunting etc I believe you are on the right track but when you take the braggart immature lines relative to the above your whole argument unfortunately falls flat due to what I would think is a rather immature attitude. I want to stress the word "unfortunately" because I agree with all you say about the hunting problem. What a pity this pretty powerful expose is going to all fall flat due to some rather childish statements. Sigh!

I've had my say on this one.

Outa here.

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Apr 2nd, 2004, 12:48 PM
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Selwyn,

It is unfortunate that you are not as passionate against operators like Classsic Africa as you are against the braggarts of the world. Last time I checked, I was not responsible for the killings of any lions, leopards, elephants or other animals through my perceived bragging.

Being that you personally take your guests to the Cheetah sanctuary, I would think you would have stronger feelings against operators that lured these same animals with all kinds of underhanded motives to within about 15 yards from the hunters, who then shoot and kill the feeding cheetahs. Of course, this has nothing to do with the fact that the owner of Classsic Africa is a fellow South African.

In reading your posts, Selwyn, I am reminded of the Religous Right in the United States, that will crucify a sitting president for adultery, but overlook the fact that "their" president has waged an unjust war resulting in the deaths of tens of thousands of people and the spending of possibly hundreds of billions of dollars. In other words, they completely miss the point and get hung up on the little things.

Selwyn, I do imagine that you must have come across some hunters and toured them around Cape Town. Do you make your feelings known to them and attempt to distance yourself? You are obviously a man of great convictions so I would expect no less.
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Apr 2nd, 2004, 12:51 PM
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Selwyn

Ok he may be a vet but I do not know of any Vet (except this one from Classic Africa) who actively promotes hunting. Is it ethical for a vet to do this? I would not think so. A Vet is supposed to love animals and save them. That is the general impression that the public has in England, a place where this man got his degree.

I am not sure what you are trying to say when you say I am in hot soup. What I and Roccco have said has been said publicly a thousand times and more and noone has got sued in England. As a result of the efforts of the anti-hunt lobby, hunting is about to be banned. The anti-hunt lobby is more powerful than the hunt lobby will ever be in UK. On a different subject, GM crops are barely grown in UK thanks to the efforts of millions of anti-GM protestors, many of whom have burnt farms and hurled stones but never been sued. Public can and do change things but if they kept silent nothing would ever change. There are thousands of people who are louder than Roccco when it comes to animal rights so don't imagine that the world lives in a semi-comatose state.

What you are suggesting is that we keep our gob shut and see the innocent public being duped into buying a safari from a company that also promotes hunting surreptitiously through another web site. There is already evidence on this forum that people who were thinking of buying a safari through the company were not aware that the company was pro-hunting.

It's simple Selwyn, Classic Africa can decide if it wants to remain the same as it is now or become a hunting company solely or become a safari company which also openly promotes publicly its hunting side too. If they are honest about it like many other hunting companies are there wouldn't be such a deep debate on the ethics of that particular company and its owner.

Now I will keep my gob shut on this particular issue but I will not be cowed into a corner by unnecessary scary tactics from you. Animals do suffer and they do deserve their rights! You can continue sitting on the sidelines if you wish. Unfortunately my conscience will not allow me to, and there are millions like me out there!
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Apr 3rd, 2004, 02:29 AM
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Roccco and King,

My oh my do you guys ever read the mails that others write fully or do you only read your own writings or for that matter selectively read what you want to read in other peoples mails.

NEVER EVER have I said I was pro hunting - as a matter of fact I am probably more anti hunting than the two of you put together.

Never ever have I condemned the facts about the content of the expose in this thread.

NOW PLEASE READ FURTHER FOR ONCE IN YOUR LIVES....

What I am against in this whole expose has been the tone of the writings. It has been braggartish, insulting and in a nutshell quite immature. There are ways and means of doing things and I believe that the mannerism of this expose have not been written in the correct fashion. The mails have been so boastful that one wonders whether Roccco has written them for personal acclaim or for the genuine reason of wanting to aid animals by stopping hunting etc. As an example: Roccco wrote, "Of course I do not think of myself as an esteemed investigative journalist, although I am sure that I would excel in such a position". I read the words "Drumrolls" and "Rivera" in mail content lines. I just have to laugh at this type of braggartish writing and please dont give me the story that this was all written as a joke. Did you forget how to type a smiley Roccco?

In terms of being in hot soup King I was referring to the fact that you called what, I believe is a vet, a non vet. What gives you the right to do so when you in your own words question what vet ethics are? I dont know these ethics and seemingly neither do you yet you call him a non vet quite blatantly. If you regard this attitude of yours as correct well then so be it!

King you also wrote:

"What you are suggesting is that we keep our gob shut and see the innocent public being duped into buying a safari from a company that also promotes hunting surreptitiously through another web site."

What nonsense. If anything I am suggesting the EXACT OPPOSITE however I am saying that there are ways and means of doing things especially in a public forum where rudensess and braggartishness should imho not be part of this mechanism.

Roccco you asked me about potential hunting groups that I might tour with.
Let me enlighten you about your question - if I know beforehand that my potential visitors are hunters or racists I dont tour with them. If I find out beforehand that the hunters are are on eco driven, parks board approved cull hunting (NOT TROPHY HUNTING) trip I do tour with them. There are ways and means of finding out about this if one contacts the relevant authorities who will put you in touch with the guide taking the hunters on a hunt whether the event is a genuine cull hunting expedition. May I add I have only had one group like this two years ago. If I find out midstream of a tour that they are hunters I probably do more than you are trying to do in your expose to try and talk them out of the sport. I must add that I dont call them scum hunters when I do this as I try to be as decent as possible in the process and I dont see anything wrong with my attitude in this regard. I might have you know that generally my attempts are futile but at least I try my damndest to install some change in them. Furthermore I have passed a hunting visitor (who also was racist in his attitide) in the past over to another tourguide midstream of a tour when the position just got to ugly from my perspective. In my whole touring career this has been the only time that I have ever "dropped" a tour.

I also must add that 5 years ago the above was NOT my attitude in that I toured with anybody be they a hunter or not. 4 years ago I changed my attitude in this regard when I started to see how gruesome the hunting concept truly was.

Roccco you mentioned that my attitude could be because of me being protective to another South African. Oh my how wrong you are. I dont care who you are or where you come from if you are wrong you are wrong HOWEVER I say again for the how manyieth time there are ways and means of doing things where I might tell you that the tried and tested idiom of he who laughs last laughs best always wins. With that said braggarts normally are the ones who arrive last at the laugh finishing line.

Enough said from my side with regard to all of the above. I would rather be embroiled in helping others on this board as best I can with good advice on Cape Town or the Garden Rolute as opposed to wasting my time on bragging and boasting about anything that I do or for that matter chastising those who do this anyway.

In ending Rocccco heres some homewrok for you:

Maybe you should have a go at a another party in the form of Travants who might well listen to you if you talk decently and in a non braggartish way to them. (similar to your very good and sound, non boastful NG mail)

See: http://www.travants.com/activity.php...on_name=Africa

as well as

http://www.travants.com/

Have fun.

Very proudly part of the wonderful nation of South Africa
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Apr 3rd, 2004, 05:41 AM
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Selwyn,

I am a step ahead of you in regards to Travants. However, this proved to be a dead end, since they are quite aware that Classic Africa engages in this activity:

http://www.travants.com/activity.php...on_name=Africa

Perhaps Travants may be anti-hunting and this may be an oversight on their part? You may know the answer better than I do on that matter.

I will not comment any further on any perceived bragging, other than to say that my prose is only what I am thinking at the time...unedited and uncensored. If I am excited because I just found out what I consider a major scoop, I will write in such a manner. Likewise, if I am disgusted by an individual and wonder how someone that is a veterinarian and an esteemed Oxford alumnus may also enjoy killing animals, I will make no secret of my disgust and will not be on my best behaivour when writing about such an individual.

Selwyn, I do think that it is unfortunate that you are getting caught up in the little things and failing to recognize the big picture. While I do not expect you to engage in any name-calling, I do think that your intolerance against "braggarts" exceeds your intolerance against hunters, and that is unfortunate.
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Apr 3rd, 2004, 07:24 AM
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Common Selwyn stop barking up the wrong tree. Braggarts or not, the fodorites have been victorious and many here appreciate Roccco's efforts.

Don't get too worked up, stay clam and enjoy your weekend. You are a decent and valuable contributor here and hope to see you back in your driving seat as the Cape Town whizzkid.
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Apr 3rd, 2004, 01:09 PM
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Roccco,

I'd like to ask you one question if I may: do you own and drive a car? If yes, I would like to know the model. Considering that global warming is the single biggest threat to the survival of ALL species on earth and considering that the US of A is the single biggest polluting nation on earth BY FAR I sincerely hope that it is a fuel efficient vechile and not for example an SUV. I also hope that you (and the rest of the contributors to this thread too!) have taken all other necessary measures to conserve energy and resources so that you are not part of those slowly killing off us and everything else on this planet.

Europeans, you see, also have a problem when it comes to taking the moral high ground: they've long ago killed everything off - Europe is one big city next to one big farm. So it makes me wonder what right y'all have in taking the moral high ground in trying to prevent poor African nations from allowing hunting so as to make a few bucks so as to put food on their tables? Or is it just this SPECIFIC operator that you don't like and the principles involved are actually unimportant?
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