Canned lion hunts
Feb 21st, 2007, 01:15 AM
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Canned lion hunts
A few weeks ago I booked a couple of nights for my husband and myself in a lodge in Timbavati. Later, I learned that hunting in allowed in Timbavati (even though it is next to Kruger). I wondered why I hadn't read about this in the many guidebooks I have. Anyhow, as many folks on this forum are, like me, animal lovers who are going to Africa to look at wildlife rather than shoot at it, I thought I might share this link to an article that appears in today's LATimes about South Africa's new restrictions on canned hunting:
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...&cset=true
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...&cset=true
Feb 21st, 2007, 01:21 AM
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I meant to provide this link from the Sydney Morning Herald, as well:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/travel/mo...733836927.html
http://www.smh.com.au/news/travel/mo...733836927.html
Feb 21st, 2007, 11:29 AM
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When we were in Tanzania last year our guide eluded to how, although he is essentially against sport hunting, he realises that it is necessary for the survival of the reserves.
For me, it's hard to put ethical issues aside when trying to understand that sport hunting can actually benefit conservation. Here's what I've come up with ...
1. When poorly regulated, hunting can have dramatic consequences on wildlife populations - no question there.
2. Sport hunting can generate considerable revenue.
3. Does Tanzania use profits from sport hunting for land/wildlife conservation? It would make sense that the country has the <i>potential</i> to finance wildlife conservation efforts....management of the revenue is likely an issue.
4. I don't know that I can be critical of sport hunting in Tanzania when it's done in first world countries around the world including the US and Canada.
Hot topic, for sure!
For me, it's hard to put ethical issues aside when trying to understand that sport hunting can actually benefit conservation. Here's what I've come up with ...
1. When poorly regulated, hunting can have dramatic consequences on wildlife populations - no question there.
2. Sport hunting can generate considerable revenue.
3. Does Tanzania use profits from sport hunting for land/wildlife conservation? It would make sense that the country has the <i>potential</i> to finance wildlife conservation efforts....management of the revenue is likely an issue.
4. I don't know that I can be critical of sport hunting in Tanzania when it's done in first world countries around the world including the US and Canada.
Hot topic, for sure!
Feb 21st, 2007, 12:40 PM
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I would really like to have a better understanding of why hunting is a necessity. I was just looking at a map of the Okavango Delta area camps on a popular agents website that shows colored areas that are "hunting areas". Can anyone enlighten me please.
Feb 21st, 2007, 01:22 PM
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To follow up on Calo's post, Ted Botha, a freelance South African journalist has an article published on www.safaritalk.net entitled "Killing the killing fields of Loliondo." Concerning the shadowy world of sport hunting in Tazania - to read the full article click here:
<b>http://safaritalk.net/index.php?showtopic=52</b>
Matt
<b>http://safaritalk.net/index.php?showtopic=52</b>
Matt
Feb 21st, 2007, 02:57 PM
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The problem is that the authorities have not banned hunting per se.
I'd rather see a canned hunt where a lion is bred to be shot than to see a wild hunt. Don't misunderstand me, I deplore hunting, however much i understand its economic relevence to conservation. But to head out and shoot a big manned lion seriously disrupts the natural order, and that is perhaps more damaging to the gene pool than the loss of canned lion.
I would also like to Van Schalkwyk applying his resourses to a far more serious problem: Perlemoen poaching off the western cape coast.
I'd rather see a canned hunt where a lion is bred to be shot than to see a wild hunt. Don't misunderstand me, I deplore hunting, however much i understand its economic relevence to conservation. But to head out and shoot a big manned lion seriously disrupts the natural order, and that is perhaps more damaging to the gene pool than the loss of canned lion.
I would also like to Van Schalkwyk applying his resourses to a far more serious problem: Perlemoen poaching off the western cape coast.
Feb 21st, 2007, 03:18 PM
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Great points mkhonzo,
still I am only being a little facetious when I say if these guys want to prove their 'manliness' let them really do something to prove their bravery like warriors of old.
Just imagining some drunken yahoo on the back of a truck shooting a scare, tame lion just sickens me.
still I am only being a little facetious when I say if these guys want to prove their 'manliness' let them really do something to prove their bravery like warriors of old.
Just imagining some drunken yahoo on the back of a truck shooting a scare, tame lion just sickens me.
Feb 22nd, 2007, 01:36 AM
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This is a good thread for people travelling to Africa to discuss - the more we are aware and alert the more we can do to protect the wildlife and assist in REAL conservation.
Canned hunting is a real practice and the recent news from South Africa is good news but does not go far enough.
It is each of our responsibility to know where we are going, whether the concession we are travelling to allows hunting, whether the agent we use also arranges hunting trips.
One of the most confronting things that happened on uour trip to Botswana was arriving through customs at Maun at the same time as a German hunter checking though his ARSENAL of weopanry. Here we were to be with and see wildlife and he was there to kill it.It was enough to make us cry (actually).
Yet African countries raise money by selling hunting licences. At the same time local people are prosecuted for poaching in the same concessions because they have not paid for a hunting a licence. Professional hunting agencies should be totally supportive of this measure - not railing against it as some are. There will be talk of conservationists "supporting" hunting because it is good for conservation because it makes people "take care" of the environment. It is a furphy. It's like saying Ivory Sales supports the conservation of elephants!
It is a complex issue but more than anything we as "consumers" or "clients" if you prefer, can assist by supporting organistations that actively oppose, by becoming educate about what really goes on, by discussing the issues and KNOWING all the facts (as hard to bear as they are) and doing something (really) to bring this practice to an end.
In some news reports an organistation called Sanwild Wildlife Sanctuary was quoted in saying these new laws do not go far enough - i am not associated with this org,having only just heard about them - but the link is here http://www.sanwild.org/ you might want to emailthem and ask how we can help.
Canned hunting has to be the equivilent of child-rape. That it has only just been outlawed in South Africa and still exists in other African nations deserves our action to see it, and the breeding of animals to support it become totally unacceptable, illegal in all nations (as it goes on in Europe and India too ).
Don't break down, break out.
Always check your destinations, operators and whether that 'tame" or "semi-habituated" animal at whatever "wildlife interaction" has been bred specifically for the purpose. If you don't get clear answers, pointers to their websites and policies from the operators and agents that show clearly their stance on hunting, conservation and what they actively DO for local communities then tell them why you are not using their services and visit only those operators that have verifiable ethical and conveservational policies.
(Thembi - trumpeting like mad!)
Canned hunting is a real practice and the recent news from South Africa is good news but does not go far enough.
It is each of our responsibility to know where we are going, whether the concession we are travelling to allows hunting, whether the agent we use also arranges hunting trips.
One of the most confronting things that happened on uour trip to Botswana was arriving through customs at Maun at the same time as a German hunter checking though his ARSENAL of weopanry. Here we were to be with and see wildlife and he was there to kill it.It was enough to make us cry (actually).
Yet African countries raise money by selling hunting licences. At the same time local people are prosecuted for poaching in the same concessions because they have not paid for a hunting a licence. Professional hunting agencies should be totally supportive of this measure - not railing against it as some are. There will be talk of conservationists "supporting" hunting because it is good for conservation because it makes people "take care" of the environment. It is a furphy. It's like saying Ivory Sales supports the conservation of elephants!
It is a complex issue but more than anything we as "consumers" or "clients" if you prefer, can assist by supporting organistations that actively oppose, by becoming educate about what really goes on, by discussing the issues and KNOWING all the facts (as hard to bear as they are) and doing something (really) to bring this practice to an end.
In some news reports an organistation called Sanwild Wildlife Sanctuary was quoted in saying these new laws do not go far enough - i am not associated with this org,having only just heard about them - but the link is here http://www.sanwild.org/ you might want to emailthem and ask how we can help.
Canned hunting has to be the equivilent of child-rape. That it has only just been outlawed in South Africa and still exists in other African nations deserves our action to see it, and the breeding of animals to support it become totally unacceptable, illegal in all nations (as it goes on in Europe and India too ).
Don't break down, break out.
Always check your destinations, operators and whether that 'tame" or "semi-habituated" animal at whatever "wildlife interaction" has been bred specifically for the purpose. If you don't get clear answers, pointers to their websites and policies from the operators and agents that show clearly their stance on hunting, conservation and what they actively DO for local communities then tell them why you are not using their services and visit only those operators that have verifiable ethical and conveservational policies.
(Thembi - trumpeting like mad!)
Feb 22nd, 2007, 02:49 AM
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Thembi, and everyone else in this thread,
Through www.safaritalk.net I am in contact with Louise Joubert, director of SanWild and in the interview I conducted recently she talked about both canned hunting and the problem of poaching - the interview can be accessed here:
<b>http://safaritalk.net/index.php?showtopic=124</b>
In response to South African Environment Minister Marthinus van Schalkwyk announcement, she stated on Safaritalk:
"We welcome the new legislation and do believe that it is a huge step in the right direction. However our main concerns for the welfare of animals in the breeding projects have not been addressed and the new legislation does not stipulate how breeding projects should be set up and controlled. In other words none of the animal welfare concerns in regards to breeding and release have been addressed at all. Effectively however if the lion breeders will adhere and work within the parameters of the new legislation, it will be extremely difficult for them to run the huge profitable operations that they have managed to do up to now. It is highly likely that many of them will now have to consider to shut down their operations. What will remain a problem is the enforcement and policing of the new laws. However I think the Minister needs some recognition and do deserve a pat on the back, let's give him time to show his worth with the enforcement of his new laws."
Matt
Through www.safaritalk.net I am in contact with Louise Joubert, director of SanWild and in the interview I conducted recently she talked about both canned hunting and the problem of poaching - the interview can be accessed here:
<b>http://safaritalk.net/index.php?showtopic=124</b>
In response to South African Environment Minister Marthinus van Schalkwyk announcement, she stated on Safaritalk:
"We welcome the new legislation and do believe that it is a huge step in the right direction. However our main concerns for the welfare of animals in the breeding projects have not been addressed and the new legislation does not stipulate how breeding projects should be set up and controlled. In other words none of the animal welfare concerns in regards to breeding and release have been addressed at all. Effectively however if the lion breeders will adhere and work within the parameters of the new legislation, it will be extremely difficult for them to run the huge profitable operations that they have managed to do up to now. It is highly likely that many of them will now have to consider to shut down their operations. What will remain a problem is the enforcement and policing of the new laws. However I think the Minister needs some recognition and do deserve a pat on the back, let's give him time to show his worth with the enforcement of his new laws."
Matt
