I have not been to S. Luangwa so I may be incorrect with this but my impression is it is more heavily vegetated with less open area than is typical in the best dog viewing areas of Botswana. The open expanses of the Linyanti/Selinda/Kwando area make it easier to spot dogs and then of course it is sometimes possible to follow them on hunts, etc. making it the best place to observe them. It sounds like the dogs in S.L. appear out of the mopane like ghosts and then vanish again. Kaingo, and the southern Bush Camps seem to have the most regular viewing with kills even right around camps ocassionally but I think it remains very hit or miss. I believe the researcher, Kellie Leigh, is leading a dog week safari for Robin Pope safaris which utilizing telemetery equipment is probably the best available trip (I think it runs in March)for dogs in Zambia. As John points out I think most people want to come during the high months of August and September for the diversity of species and that is when the dogs are being secretive and denning in the mopane woodlands making the high season the hardest time to find them. Using telemetery to locate dens may change that in the future.

Right now I think there is no doubt that Botswana is the place to see dogs in action in the wilderness. Hopefully their status in Zambia continues to grow and sightings become much more frequent.

"I have not been to S. Luangwa so I may be incorrect with this but my impression is it is more heavily vegetated with less open area than is typical in the best dog viewing areas of Botswana. The open expanses of the Linyanti/Selinda/Kwando area make it easier to spot dogs..."- Pred

Makes sense. I love wide open space, and I think Selinda has much more of it than its neighbours. My visits to Lagoon and Savuti were shorter but I didn't see the same vastness of floodplain grassland in those places. I'm looking forward to the change of scene I'll experience in the Kaingo area. I'm hoping to go there as much for the different scenery as for anything else.

John

John,

True....but, who knows with 80 dogs and growing in the South Luangwa, things may change. Also, dont the dogs like to hunt around the camps in Botswana? They like to flush impalas out of thickets and chase them around and into the camp areas, confusing them.....maybe this will happen in the South Luangwa in time to come....

I'm sure you will get plenty of fantastic pictures at Kaingo both from the hides and from the vehicle.

But, yes.....at the moment Northen Botswana has to be the best destination for the dogs. I fully concur.

Hari

Hello again,
Most of my trip seems to be coming together and I think I've narrowed my TA's down to 2.

Questions;
If one's desire is to see the falls only is one night enough?

My idea, although not logistically ideal, is to start at the falls, do the canoe trip at Mana pools and then go to Botswana with an extension in the desert. If I do opt for the desert it will be at the Sans due to cost.

My question is; Would it be more practical and logistically more appropriate to give up the desert and to just add a bit of extra time before or after Mana pools in Zimbabwe?

The flights,times and logistics of this part of the trip are completely puzzling to me. It seems as if I do opt to go to the desert prior to the delta I would have to go back down to Johansburg - true?

As always, any help is appreciated:
Sherry

Sherry: one night at Vic Fall is fine if you just want to see the falls. I did that before and it was plenty of time.

That itinerary sounds outstanding. San Camp should be reachable from Maun and probably Kasane too so I don't think you will need to go via Joburg but I'm not knowledgeable on transfers from Mana Pools area so I'd defer to anyone who is. Bottom line is that is where the agent becomes valuable. With this board as a planning resource its pretty easy to pick your own camps but the details of getting you all transferred around is where the agents expertise should be a huge help -- I'd stick with what you want to do and let them figure out how to make it happen. If that comes back as an issue than you can reconsider it but I don't think you should have a problem with that plan.

Sherry,

I agree with PB, if you just want to see the falls one night is good enough.

About a Zim safari in addition to Bots....once again, depends on how much time you have for the entire trip. You know my theory....the more you shuttle around the more luck you need for great sightings....

Perhaps, you can put down your itinerary as recommended by your TA's and get feed back from these boards- if you want to....

Hari

Thanks.
I'm guessing that I'll fly with KLM from Boston - ? - Johannasburg

1n. - Southern Sun

<b>1n. - Ilala - Vic. falls</b>

<b>3n. - Mana Pools - Zimb. canoeing/walking</b>

????? EXTENSION in Zimbabwe OR
2n. - Sans

<b>5n. - Ziblianjo</b>

<b>3n. - L. Vumbura</b>

<b>5n. Chitabe Trails</b>

??? 2n. Sans extension if not Zimbabwe

Homeward bound.

Posted to soon.
The above that are in bold are so far added to the agenda.
I'm tossing around staying a few days longer in Zimbabwe rather than going to the Sans. My 2 reasons which I'm trying to justify are more dog ((&amp;)) time and I'm not sure I want the Sans to be my final destination in Botswana. Sounds crazy, I know.

If you do more time in Zim, especially with the dog focus you should probably stay somewhere in Hwange. Dennis's report will soon give you a better idea of that. Personally I love the desert and the variety it brings and combined with your Zim canoeing, Selinda area, and Delta would give you such diverse coverage but for more traditional wildlife opportunites and viewing adding Hwange would be ideal. It will be an amazing trip either way.

One more vote for just one night at Vic Falls based on your expectations. You may get to see some of the animals convalescing that Dennis encountered if you are at Ilala.

If you have 2 nights to play with and you're deciding between Zim and San, then I'd go for San. I was there in Aug 2005 and it is a fascinating &amp; beautiful place with meerkats that are not available elsewhere. If you could fit another day in there for 3 nights, then I'd do Hwange for 3 instead of San.
I don't think I'd try Hwange for 2 nights though.

Ending with San is a consideration. I encountered a woman who ended with San and happened to do my exact itinerary in reverse. She remarked that she would have preferred to start at San with the sparsest game and end in Linyanti or Chitabe with more game. On the other hand, the folks at San said after guests are &quot;safaried out&quot; it is nice to come to San and ride the quad bikes and look for ancient tools, etc. A San finale will probably not be a wildlife extravaganza finale, unless meerkats are at the top of your list. They were really cool and in my book a fitting grand finale.

Starting your Botswana itinerary in San would be ideal. Oh my goodness, what a spectacular 3 weeks!

sherry:
It sounds as if it is really coming together.

Sherry,

Would you mind emailing me at your convenience? I wanted to ask you a question or two. Thanks.

[email protected]

Sherry,

I like the way your trip is shaping up....i agree with Lynn. San for two nights or Hwange for a minimum of 3. Costs wise- i would think it is easy to get to Hwange from the falls, vs a more expensive transfer at San. That said, i loved my time at Jack's camp back in 2004.

5 nights at Zib sounds good. 5 nights at Chitabe...i have never been there, but it is meant to be awesome....

Hari

Appreciate your insights.
I've got some real #'s on my extensions coming in soon which may help me decide. I'm down to 2 companies (I think)and need to compare apples with apples.

Although I do know it will be less costly to extend in Zimb. in lieu of the desert, I may lose diversity and be setting myself up for a huge let down if the dogs don't show anywhere. I just need to convince myself of this.

Another option that has been mentioned is skipping Zimb. entirely including the canoe trip to do the Xigera Mokoro and walking trail. Although it's probably nice, it sounds kind of sedate, as I think only the guide poles. I also think I may feel hemmed in if the reeds are high. Are these trips nicer than I think?
Sorry to ramble.
Sherry

Sherry,

I did Xigera (but 10 years ago). Don't know if it has changed much. I'm pretty sure the camp location has changed though. It was fairly sedate, but interesting-- as you would expect on your first African safari i.e. not to be missed. We had a mixture of game drives (saw lion, close encounters with elephant), walks on islands (saw elephant, lechwe, crocs etc), and mekoro and motor boat voyages (birds, hippos, brief glimpse of sitatunga). The mekoro trips were on both narrow channels (reeds fairly high sometimes but not overpoweringly so) and on big open stretches of water, and both were interrupted by island walks. A lot of fun, but I'm not likely to do it again.

John

Sherry,

You are likely to do some mokoro time at Little Vumbura anyways. For walking, i'm sure you can schedule some walks at both Chitabe and Zibalianja....the mokoros are very relaxed and extremely sedate. It's just to take in the atmosphere of the delta. I think a mokoro one time is an essential experience. That said, i dont think i will do another mokoro ride....i prefer the jeeps.

Dogs, you are giving yourself a great chance at both Zib and Chitabe. If they are in the area, they will find them for you. They are so endangered that it's always going to be a luck of the draw....

Hari

Regarding Xigera Camp and the Mokoro/Walking Trail:

1. The camp is still in the same place it was when you visted John. It has however changed in that it was on the ground (much like Little Vumbura) back then and was upgraded to walkways and larger tents about 1999/2000 if I remember correctly. A pool was also added and the main area was upgraded with a bar, etc.

2. The Mokoro Trail is no longer offered on custom itineraries. It is now only available as part of the following safaris (or for small groups upon specific request):
• The Botswana and Namibia Epic Safari
• Untamed Lands Safari
• Migration Routes Safari

Regards,
James

Thanks James. I knew something had changed about the camp, but mistakenly thought it was location.

John

I've been to Little Vumbura and Chitabe. Great places. Mombo is the place to see it all. We saw a mother leopard carring a cub. We were able to get very close. Duba Plains had the dogs which are amazing to track and watch. I'be been to Africa three times and Botswana was our favorite area.

While I'm waiting for the rest of my revised quotes, I'm wondering if you can help me with room (tent) rec. at:
Ilana
Zibliango
L.Vumbura
Chitabe Trails - if I recall, C. trails sounded a bit more intimate than Chitabe - true? Also, there's 2 hides which I'd like to do 1 n. at - is one better than another?
I'm hoping that the benifit of booking this far ahead may enable me to get the room I want. I'm hoping for rooms with nice views and away from (people)noise or anything else you may think is a bother.
I'm still on the fence about the Sans.
Thanks ahead;
Sherry

Sherry,

There is a difference between the walking trails camps where you sleep in the hide. I prefered the smaller of the two hides.

I copied this part of my report.

I stayed at the OLD Walking Trails, which accommodates up to four, and is only an hour’s walk from camp. There is a NEW Walking Trails that sleeps up to eight with platforms adjoined by hanging bridges and is a three or four hour walk from camp. The immediate area of the lagoon-less new camp did not seem as interesting as the old camp, but the new camp is closer to the Moremi border with its abundant, diverse wildlife.

You can walk between the new and old camp in several hours and spend two consecutive nights in the open-air bush. You also can be driven to and from either of these walking camps (despite the name indicating otherwise) in case you wanted to sleep on the open platform but did not want to give up the more game-intense drives.

Sherry,

By 2008 the camps may change their rooms, location, spacing, number of tents etc etc., so any current information may not mean much by the time your trip gets around......

Hari

Sherry,

Location and appeal of Zibalianja's tents may have changed slightly since the upgrade, but Lynn should be able to tell you if I've got it right:

Best tent in my view is #1, which is closest to, and on the same side of camp as, the dining/campfire/bar area. It's also the most elevated and has a great view across the floodplain looking towards the airstrip (the strip is distant so isn't a bother). The camp waterhole is also visible. The other tents are on the other side of camp and face the other way. As there are only three guest tents, each is nice and private.

John

John,

Is it the same waterhole often described in their newsletters? Where the cheetah boys or dogs occassionally visit? Then i better ask my TA to get me tent 1.....

Thanks
hari

Hari,

Yes, same waterhole. The dogs are regular visitors until the pack abandons the den and the pups are big enough to roam afar.

The waterhole is only small...man-made in about 2001. It wasn't there when we stayed at Zib in 2000. It's only a stone's throw from the thatched bar. A dugout hide was built close to the water two or three years ago. I'm hoping the camp manager last year took my advice and raised part of the hide's interior so that a photographer can see the water's surface when animals are drinking. When I tried the hide, I couldn't see the water. You could get good shots of the wildlife but not of them with their muzzles in the water (the shot I got of a wild dog drinking in 2002 was from a vehicle). Early this past season, the floodplain in front of camp experienced one of its rare floodings from Zibalianja lagoon, and the water filled the hide!

John

Ok John, My TA is going to put in a request for tent 1

Thanks

Hari

Excellent info. Thanks.

I think I'd like to stay in the Chitabe Trails camp - does anyone have a room rec.?

L. Vumbura - I recall someone talking about having a great room - anyone remember who?

Also, isn't there a room/camp picture index link of sorts on the forum? Is southern Africa included in it?
Sherry

Chitabe, either Lynn or Johan should know.....

Yes, there is a lodge thread with photos of Southern African and East African lodges started by Julian. Check the search box....some of these camps should be featured in the thread...

Hari

Here's the link to the Safari Lodge photos:

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34844807

Cybor,

Regarding the tents at LIttle Vumbura, there's only 6 tents and they are all spaced quite far apart. We were in the &quot;Honeymoon&quot; tent, it's very private. This is the tent with the outdoor tub that you always see on the Wilderness website. There is a small indoor shower, and the outdoor tub. I believe that all the other tents have an outdoor shower (instead of the tub)and I assume that they also have a small indoor shower (although I'm not certain). I think LV is supposed to be renovatied sometime in the future, so maybe before 2008, then things may change. Little Vumbura was my husband's favorite camp, so we are going back there next year for 3 nights. We will also be at Chitabe Trails next year. Your itinerary sounds wonderful!

Sorry no photo of the camps, just the Chitabe hide. If you want the hide at the walking trails camp, I'll put in a link.

Lynn

cw - thanks, that's a great site - no camp comments though. Nice work, Julian.

Lynn - your comments are thorough enough that I can figure out which hide is which by looking at the Chitabe site. I'll ask for the old one - thanks

Brandywine - Do you remember if all the tents at L. Vumbura had nice veiws? I'm curious why it was your DH's favorite camp and not yours. Where else did you go on your trip? The outdoor showers do sound great, albeit, a wee bit chilly - appreciate your input.
Sherry

Cybor,

I really don’t know how the views are from each tent at LV, but I assume that most of them are looking over the floodplain. The tents are spaced quite far apart and are each on a little trail off of the main walkway (all walkways and the tents are on the ground, not on raised walks), so you do not really see that much of any of the tents except your own. The tent we were in was very private (as you would expect with the outdoor tub completely in the open).

As far as outdoor showers or tubs go, we were there in June, and the temperatures are warm enough in the early afternoon to enjoy. Personally, I like to take a quick shower before game drives in the morning (to “wake up” before the drive) so I really appreciate at least a small indoor shower to use when it is still dark or cold outside.

Cybor, I’ve only been on safari once so far, so just comparing four camps, but I think it was my husbands favorite camp because of the access by boat (the camp is on its own little island), the small size, the tents and walkways on the ground, the more traditional look of the tents, etc. really makes you feel like you are “in the bush”. The game viewing was also quite good when we were there and I think this area is known to be one of the best water/land camps for animals, although probably not as good as some of the land only camps. I also liked LV a lot, and looking forward to going back, but my favorite camp was our first stop in South Africa (Londolozi Tree Camp). I think you will like LV a lot, and I’m really glad you decided to add a water camp in the Delta, as the scenery is very beautiful, and it would not seem right to go to Botswana and not spend some time in one of the Delta camps.

I'm on pins and needles waiting for my (hopefully final) revised itinerary. Everything seems to be fitting well except Zibilianja - we've had to redo this trip 3X. It's easy to believe that this place is booking 1 1/2 yrs. prior. For those of you thinking of going, start booking now, as some groups are picking up blocks of time in prime weeks.

The other stumbler is that one can only start the mana pool canoe trip tues. and thurs.

I should know what's what by the end of the day.
As it's narcisistic and probably a jinx to wish myself good luck, I'll ask you to do my wish request.
Thanks;
Sherry

good luck.

Good luck and good karma floating your way......

:-)

((@))

Sherry,

You must bear in mind that Zibalianja only has 3 tents, so get waitlisted for your dates. OR if the other camps are wide open then book your schedule around the current open dates for Zib.

Hari

Post when you find out, Sherry. Hope it works!

Hooray!!!!!!=D&gt;
I'm provisionally booked.
Here's my itinerary:
<b>PROVISIONAL ITINERARY:
ZIMBABWE &amp; BOTSWANA</b>

22 July 2008:
JOHANNESBURG
<b>Southern Sun</b>

23 July: VICTORIA FALLS
<b>Ilala Lodge</b>

24 July: MANA CANOE TRAIL
<b>3-night/4-day Mana Canoe Trail</b>

27 July: Victoria Falls
<b>Matesi Water lodge</b>

28 July: SELINDA-LINYANTI
<b>Ziblianja Camp</b>

02 Aug: OKAVANGO DELTA
<b> Little Vumbura Camp</b>

05 Aug: MOREMI
<b> Chitabe Trails Camp</b>

10 Aug: DEPARTURE OR
<b>Add on a desert extension</b>

Congratulations, Sherry! Sorry I can't recall - is this a solo trip?