Big price jumps for 07 in Tanzania
Sep 25th, 2006, 02:22 AM
#2
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,501
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Clem,
Ouch indeed -- the best Tanzanian lodges are beginning to rival those in Botswana for pricing, particularly once you bring park fees into the equation (there are no park fees in Botswana).
However, if you're willing to forego the luxury of TUC or Klein's (painful as this may be) you can still stay at some lovely tented camps (e.g. Sayari, Nomad etc) for around $500-$550 pps.
Cheers,
Julian
Ouch indeed -- the best Tanzanian lodges are beginning to rival those in Botswana for pricing, particularly once you bring park fees into the equation (there are no park fees in Botswana).
However, if you're willing to forego the luxury of TUC or Klein's (painful as this may be) you can still stay at some lovely tented camps (e.g. Sayari, Nomad etc) for around $500-$550 pps.
Cheers,
Julian
Sep 25th, 2006, 03:24 AM
#3
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 813
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To be honest, I think this is a bit silly for lodges in TZ.
I'm talking about exclusivity here; in private concessions you pay for extra luxury, you pay to not have 10 cars queueing in front of you at a leopard sighting, and you pay to be able to drive off road, etc etc...
So asking the same price for a lodge in a "regular" NP is a bit too much I think.
Sure, there's 2 big assets TZ has (the migration and the crater), so one can maybe expect higher prices than a normal NP. But just not as much as prices in Botswana.
I expect people will pay the price though; lodges in TZ will still be full. At least in the beginning. But after a while, when people start comparing (eg when some will have visited Mala Mala or Lebala, etc), they'll get a lot of dissapointed customers.
I'm talking about exclusivity here; in private concessions you pay for extra luxury, you pay to not have 10 cars queueing in front of you at a leopard sighting, and you pay to be able to drive off road, etc etc...
So asking the same price for a lodge in a "regular" NP is a bit too much I think.
Sure, there's 2 big assets TZ has (the migration and the crater), so one can maybe expect higher prices than a normal NP. But just not as much as prices in Botswana.
I expect people will pay the price though; lodges in TZ will still be full. At least in the beginning. But after a while, when people start comparing (eg when some will have visited Mala Mala or Lebala, etc), they'll get a lot of dissapointed customers.
Sep 25th, 2006, 03:53 AM
#4
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,501
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Pixel,
I agree that you won't get the same experience inside a NP (in any country) that you will in a private concession. The rising prices may drive people towards the private concessions bordering the Serengeti (TUC Klein's and Klein's Camp itself are both in a private concession).
If you think this is high, you don't want to know what Singita Serengeti runs at!
Cheers,
Julian
I agree that you won't get the same experience inside a NP (in any country) that you will in a private concession. The rising prices may drive people towards the private concessions bordering the Serengeti (TUC Klein's and Klein's Camp itself are both in a private concession).
If you think this is high, you don't want to know what Singita Serengeti runs at!
Cheers,
Julian
Sep 25th, 2006, 05:30 AM
#5
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,354
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ouch! Let's put things in the proper perspective. I wish I can write exactly what I think but I don't have time to write a novel.
Tanzania (with its partner Kenya) is responsible for conserving one of nature's most incredible occurences. Allowing the Migration process to continue as nature intended is no easy task when considering the local population growth, growth in tourism and the need for more beds, and other human factors.
Fortunately, the Tanzanian Gov (despite many flaws and false starts and inefficiences) decided to support the notion of lesser impact tourism by creating more special camp sites instead of new hotels/lodges.
Unfortunately, the concept of camping in the Serengeti is still misunderstood by most tourists who have visions of small dirty tents with nasty bathrooms and cold showers with insects crawling over your face at night and snakes and cats waiting outside to harass the unwary.
This is not surprising since many outfitters use camping as a way to deliver the cheapest and poorest service imaginable.
But some outfitters are taking the camping concept to new levels with beautiful large tents, superb guiding, specially designed vehicles, and all the comforts of luxury lodges - with one exception, exclusivity!
They have few tents (4 - 6 in most cases) in remote camp sites and they offer guests an opportunity to get as close to the migrating herds as possible by always moving the camps so the clients don't have to worry about this during the booking process!
How much are you willing to pay for an opportunity to camp almost in private in the wild in the mighty Serengeti with nearly a million animals all around you?
Why would you want to pay less than Botswana/South Africa for this experience?
Please don't believe that game drives in the Serengeti are crowded. This is another misconception because so many people travel with the safari taxi companies in order to save money - with drivers who spend most of their time looking for other cars with their ears glued to the radio so their clients can tick of the cats and big game; and then these clients go home and complain about 10 cars around a leopard!
I spent 4 months already this year in Tanzania filming and I have shared very very few sightings with other vehicles despite my peak season visits! And this includes Seronera, Ndutu, Lobo and Kogatende in the Serengeti!
"I agree that you won't get the same experience inside a NP (in any country) that you will in a private concession. "
I could not disagree more with you, Julian. You have not visited East Africa enough to make such a claim!
For example, there is no private concession near the Mara River in the Serengeti (or Masai Mara) where you can watch the crocs and hippos when the animals cross. There is no private concession near the southern plains of the Serengeti where you can see the green landscape dotted with wildebeests! There is no private consession near the Tarangire River from where you can watch the leopards in the early morning light as the animals first arrive at the river. There is no private concession in the NorthEast Ruaha from where you can watch the cheetah hunt.
Tanzania (with its partner Kenya) is responsible for conserving one of nature's most incredible occurences. Allowing the Migration process to continue as nature intended is no easy task when considering the local population growth, growth in tourism and the need for more beds, and other human factors.
Fortunately, the Tanzanian Gov (despite many flaws and false starts and inefficiences) decided to support the notion of lesser impact tourism by creating more special camp sites instead of new hotels/lodges.
Unfortunately, the concept of camping in the Serengeti is still misunderstood by most tourists who have visions of small dirty tents with nasty bathrooms and cold showers with insects crawling over your face at night and snakes and cats waiting outside to harass the unwary.
This is not surprising since many outfitters use camping as a way to deliver the cheapest and poorest service imaginable.
But some outfitters are taking the camping concept to new levels with beautiful large tents, superb guiding, specially designed vehicles, and all the comforts of luxury lodges - with one exception, exclusivity!
They have few tents (4 - 6 in most cases) in remote camp sites and they offer guests an opportunity to get as close to the migrating herds as possible by always moving the camps so the clients don't have to worry about this during the booking process!
How much are you willing to pay for an opportunity to camp almost in private in the wild in the mighty Serengeti with nearly a million animals all around you?
Why would you want to pay less than Botswana/South Africa for this experience?
Please don't believe that game drives in the Serengeti are crowded. This is another misconception because so many people travel with the safari taxi companies in order to save money - with drivers who spend most of their time looking for other cars with their ears glued to the radio so their clients can tick of the cats and big game; and then these clients go home and complain about 10 cars around a leopard!
I spent 4 months already this year in Tanzania filming and I have shared very very few sightings with other vehicles despite my peak season visits! And this includes Seronera, Ndutu, Lobo and Kogatende in the Serengeti!
"I agree that you won't get the same experience inside a NP (in any country) that you will in a private concession. "
I could not disagree more with you, Julian. You have not visited East Africa enough to make such a claim!
For example, there is no private concession near the Mara River in the Serengeti (or Masai Mara) where you can watch the crocs and hippos when the animals cross. There is no private concession near the southern plains of the Serengeti where you can see the green landscape dotted with wildebeests! There is no private consession near the Tarangire River from where you can watch the leopards in the early morning light as the animals first arrive at the river. There is no private concession in the NorthEast Ruaha from where you can watch the cheetah hunt.
Sep 25th, 2006, 06:12 AM
#7
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,354
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hari, NO! I would not go to Ruaha to see cheetah! Masai Mara during the dry season is better because they hunt almost daily in full view.
Cheetah in Ruaha is an eventful sighting because they are more elusive there. They mostly hunt Grant Gazelle which are bigger than Tommies so life is not easy for them! Mwagusi guests spot cheetah quite often because the camp is closest to their habitat.
Cheetah in Ruaha is an eventful sighting because they are more elusive there. They mostly hunt Grant Gazelle which are bigger than Tommies so life is not easy for them! Mwagusi guests spot cheetah quite often because the camp is closest to their habitat.
Sep 25th, 2006, 07:46 AM
#9
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,880
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<b>To be honest, I think this is a bit silly for lodges in TZ. </b>
TUC is more about mobile tent camps than lodges ... the three lodges we're using in 2007 didn't raise prices much. One lodge has the same rack rate as 2005 and the other two had fairly minor 5% jumps, attributed to higher fuel costs (prices were set a few months ago when oil prices spiked).
I was told that because they run generators for power and because all supplies must be trucked in that their costs are sensitive to fuel prices.
Dunno why the mobile tented camps jumped proportionally higher. Maybe the park authorities see them as an untapped source of revenue and raised their user fees?
Bill
TUC is more about mobile tent camps than lodges ... the three lodges we're using in 2007 didn't raise prices much. One lodge has the same rack rate as 2005 and the other two had fairly minor 5% jumps, attributed to higher fuel costs (prices were set a few months ago when oil prices spiked).
I was told that because they run generators for power and because all supplies must be trucked in that their costs are sensitive to fuel prices.
Dunno why the mobile tented camps jumped proportionally higher. Maybe the park authorities see them as an untapped source of revenue and raised their user fees?
Bill
Sep 25th, 2006, 08:45 AM
#10
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hari,
We saw a total of 8 cheetahs on safari in Tanzania. 3 in Ngorongoro crater and 5 in the Serengeti.,
In the crater the first one was quite a distance away, so wasn't the best sighting. Then we saw/watched/followed two males for quite a long time as they were on the move.
Then in the Serengeti we saw a mother with 3 sub-adults cubs lazing in the shade. Later on we saw another single male hunting.
We also spoke with a few groups of people who had seen a mother with 4 little cubs, but we didn't see them.
Jenn
We saw a total of 8 cheetahs on safari in Tanzania. 3 in Ngorongoro crater and 5 in the Serengeti.,
In the crater the first one was quite a distance away, so wasn't the best sighting. Then we saw/watched/followed two males for quite a long time as they were on the move.
Then in the Serengeti we saw a mother with 3 sub-adults cubs lazing in the shade. Later on we saw another single male hunting.
We also spoke with a few groups of people who had seen a mother with 4 little cubs, but we didn't see them.
Jenn
Sep 25th, 2006, 08:54 AM
#11
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,790
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
pixelpower:
I see another advantge to TZ (and Kenya)--you can have a private guide and vehicle for about the same price as shared vehicles. Frankly, the idea of paying the prices of Botswana camps and then to be in a shared vehicle for that price--it has really made me hestitant.
I see another advantge to TZ (and Kenya)--you can have a private guide and vehicle for about the same price as shared vehicles. Frankly, the idea of paying the prices of Botswana camps and then to be in a shared vehicle for that price--it has really made me hestitant.
Sep 25th, 2006, 09:44 AM
#13
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,354
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tanzania Under Canvas doesn't have 3rd party guide accommodations so their game drives are shared when the camp is full - I have not seen more than 2 vehicles in their Serengeti camp to service the four tents but I could be wrong.
Special camping in Tanzania is expensive for many reasons. Camp sites fees at $50pppd is one reason. Maintenance is another. And providing supplies to remote locations. Another reason is because the better outfitters will book several camp sites in the path of the expected migration pattern so the camp can move around when needed.
With a limited number of good camp sites (and healthy competition between the outfitters), outfitters must pay a "deposit" of sorts to reserve and keep these camp sites during the prime migration months. This can add up quickly especially when some camp sites remain unoccupied due to changes in wildlife patterns!
These costs must be accounted for and therefor prices will continue to rise as the park authorities don't want to lose revenue due to unused camp sites and outfitters want to reserve several backup sites to ensure prime locations throught the migration season!
Here are 2 more perspectives:
National Geographic Expeditions charge almost $700 pp per day for their Tanzania & Zanibar tour. For this hefty price one gets to go on a group safari, stay in Serena Hotels and the mega resort Ocean Paradise (92 rooms?)!
Or one can take the Micato Stanley Wing tour and pay almost $650 per person per day to stay in mostly Sopa Lodges on a group tour with a max of only 24 fellow tourists!
All of a sudden, $750 per person per night for a luxury tented camp in the serengeti is not so expensive anymore! At least not in my opinion!
Special camping in Tanzania is expensive for many reasons. Camp sites fees at $50pppd is one reason. Maintenance is another. And providing supplies to remote locations. Another reason is because the better outfitters will book several camp sites in the path of the expected migration pattern so the camp can move around when needed.
With a limited number of good camp sites (and healthy competition between the outfitters), outfitters must pay a "deposit" of sorts to reserve and keep these camp sites during the prime migration months. This can add up quickly especially when some camp sites remain unoccupied due to changes in wildlife patterns!
These costs must be accounted for and therefor prices will continue to rise as the park authorities don't want to lose revenue due to unused camp sites and outfitters want to reserve several backup sites to ensure prime locations throught the migration season!
Here are 2 more perspectives:
National Geographic Expeditions charge almost $700 pp per day for their Tanzania & Zanibar tour. For this hefty price one gets to go on a group safari, stay in Serena Hotels and the mega resort Ocean Paradise (92 rooms?)!
Or one can take the Micato Stanley Wing tour and pay almost $650 per person per day to stay in mostly Sopa Lodges on a group tour with a max of only 24 fellow tourists!
All of a sudden, $750 per person per night for a luxury tented camp in the serengeti is not so expensive anymore! At least not in my opinion!
Sep 25th, 2006, 09:57 AM
#14
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 14,440
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting discussion. Putting the Tanzania tented camp cost in perspective
(post by Predator, just above this one) helps with the comparison.
Hari,
I have to chuckle at your one-track mind. From this whole big discussion you zero in on where to see a cheetah. Maybe I'm chucking because I understand the fascination with that animal.
(post by Predator, just above this one) helps with the comparison.
Hari,
I have to chuckle at your one-track mind. From this whole big discussion you zero in on where to see a cheetah. Maybe I'm chucking because I understand the fascination with that animal.
Sep 25th, 2006, 06:12 PM
#17
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,501
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Eben,
Please, calm down -- you'll give yourself a coronary
If you read my post carefully, you'll see that I'm NOT referring specifically to national parks in Tanzania (or in East Africa for that matter!) but to national parks in general. The same restrictions on off-road driving and night driving hold true in many national parks in Southern Africa, which is why I prefer to stay in the private reserves.
Personally, I have found that being able to drive off road and at night brings an entirely different dimension to game-viewing, particularly when watching predators on the hunt.
Cheers,
Julian
Please, calm down -- you'll give yourself a coronary
If you read my post carefully, you'll see that I'm NOT referring specifically to national parks in Tanzania (or in East Africa for that matter!) but to national parks in general. The same restrictions on off-road driving and night driving hold true in many national parks in Southern Africa, which is why I prefer to stay in the private reserves.
Personally, I have found that being able to drive off road and at night brings an entirely different dimension to game-viewing, particularly when watching predators on the hunt.
Cheers,
Julian
Sep 25th, 2006, 06:14 PM
#18
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,501
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Bat,
Singita Serengeti = Grumeti Reserves. I don't know if the name change has become official, but I've seen it referred to as Singita Serengeti since Singita became officially involved (it's actually been in the works for years).
Cheers,
Julian
Singita Serengeti = Grumeti Reserves. I don't know if the name change has become official, but I've seen it referred to as Singita Serengeti since Singita became officially involved (it's actually been in the works for years).
Cheers,
Julian
Thread
Original Poster
Forum
Replies
Last Post
patiricia
Africa & the Middle East
13
Jun 29th, 2007 05:54 AM
