2burntout

Originally my screen name was "burntout"

I managed to ruffle a few feathers a few days ago when I agreed with "daltond"

Before you knew it some of the regular fodorites accused us of being the same person or sitting next to each other in an office. I guarentee you we are not(I give you Katie_H full permission to disclose this)

The following day I was banned along with my husband (Cantona7) and my daughter (Rafikimilly)
I assume this is because we were traced back to the same computer?
What rules have we broken? We all three have different email addresses. We are all three nature lovers and have opinions and information worth sharing. Naturally we all use the same pc, so do 99% of all families world- wide.

Now in order for us to respond to threads we have to re-register as well as open up new email addresses in order to do this. How ridiculous.
Makes me wonder if it is even worth it, not to mention question how safe our details with Fodors are in the first place.

So do us a favour Katie_H and remove the ban.

nyama

I guess this 'multiple account' detection mechanism has a real flaw.

Nyamera

This is getting more and more like Lost.

daltonr

Hi Katie_H

I also give you permission to disclose if we are one and the same.

I did think I was pretty diplomatic though in disagreements with other parties and I am sure they would agree?

Glad to be back on though although if banned again will not.

Cheers

Favor

This "multiple screen name" issue is one that many online forums struggle with.

I live in the US and at my home we have support for Paul, Huckabee, and Clinton - all occasionally using the same computer. If we posted at the same sites, you could well imagine that a moderator might conclude the three screen names were some sort of trolling exercise.

Moderators need to be sensitive to this common situation.

Nyamera

If burntout and daltond aren’t the same person, I can’t think of any posters in the Questions to Guests thread that could have been using multiple screen names, except maybe “emeraldblaze”, but both daltond and burntout were banned. I think Katie should explain this.

Burntout seems to be at least one troll though. He/she/it didn’t ruffle my feathers by agreeing with daltond, but by some confused and incomprehensible insults directed towards me.

nyama

Favor said: "Moderators need to be sensitive to this common situation."

And causing this collateral damage? I can't agree.

And it's no fun that Fodor's still keeps information on your computer after you've logged out. I see no technical reason for this.

Nyamera said: "Burntout seems to be at least one troll though. ...some confused and incomprehensible insults directed towards me."

I also rolled my eyes when reading some parts of your original post, and found burntout's reply quite moderate.

Nyamera

Nyama, what part in my original post? In that post I was trying to find out what daltond was trying to say as it was really cryptic. Then burntout reacted to my question whether “locals” were citizens and the discriminated “non-locals” were expats - not that I’ve ever encountered an expat working as a guide, but I’d think their problems would be with work permits and lack of citizenship and not skin colour as the “non-white” burnout claims is her/his problem, as a conservationist and specialist who has had the misfortune of having to work as a guide in several countries having to put up with “your irritating and repetitive questions”. And, what’s “moderate” about calling me narrow minded??? When I found this thread I thought maybe I was a bit narrow minded as I’d just assumed that burntout was a man, but he/she actually says, “I am a very experienced field guide and specialist botanist who has worked his way around various camps and lodges in several countries”. It does give me some reason to think that he/she is a troll. Though if he and cantona7 have a same sex marriage and have adopted Rafikimilly, burnout might have a point in calling me that kind of thing now – but not in the Questions (2) Guests thread. Is emeraldblaze part of the family as well?

BTW, I’m against the banning of posters however insulting, promotional or trollish they may be and I don’t like it if Fodor’s are keeping an eye on from what computer I’m writing.

nyama

Nyamera -- "narrow minded" could be interpreted in a way that your experiences and knowledge are based on only a small spectrum of the safari world. For instance, think about your knowledge of white guides in Kenya.

I didn't find daltond's post "cryptic" in any way because I'd made similar experiences and knew about what he was talking.

Your "expats" phrases caused burntout's reply to you. What expats? And "your irritating and repetitive questions" wasn't meant personally but must be seen in the more general context of the "overseas world" traveller.

If looking at some lines of your latest post I don't find them very helpful (to put it mildly).

Nyamera

Nyama,
As more than 99% of Kenyans are black and less than 1% are white, I find it quite normal that I haven’t seen any white guides in Kenya.

I was asking daltond questions to find out what he really meant and that’s not being narrow minded.

Daltond’s post was extremely cryptic. For almost all people in the world, except maybe some white South Africans (I’ve understood now), “local” means something else than black. He was complaining that he, when he was a guide, got smaller tips than black guides because “they” tell “sob stories” so that guests feel sorry for them and he wanted people to agree with him that that’s the way it is. Most people in the thread hadn’t heard any sob stories from guides, local or not. Though I don’t know if they’d understood what daltond meant when they answered. So, you give better tips to black guides because they tell you sob stories?

There was no “helpful” way to explain why I think burntout is a troll.

Nyamera

And, daltond didn’t even say what country he was from. Had he started by saying “I’m a Kenyan” I’d assumed he was a well-educated (because of the English) Kikuyu from Nairobi who had worked at various camps in the Mara and had become obsessed with the thought the local, and to him "inferior", Maasai guides got better tips. It looks like several posters interpreted it this way.

safarimama

Is that a helpfull Swedish troll or a naughty Norwegian troll? I'm just curious.

Nyamera

Something like this:
http://www.freewebs.com/skaneq/baue_troll.jpg

nyama

I just imagined the following situations:

You are visiting a good friend, also a Fodorite, and use his/her computer for making a post at Fodors... banned!

You have a stop at Joburg Intl and use one of the public computers to make a post. Unfortunately another Fodorite made the same five minutes earlier... banned!

You're at a famous safari lodge in SSGR and post the first part of your live trip report. Another guest just answered a post on the same computer... banned!

2burntout

Wow Nyamera, you are some detective. You almost have me wondering whether you are some kind of "stalker" since you are so obsessed with my life, and no I am not offended by you calling me an "It" either.

If you must know, my use of the phrase "his" was deliberate as there was not exactly an abundance of female guides during my "era" and I did not want anybody to piece my true identity together. I still don't. I only revealed my sex after all the trolling allegations started flying around. If memory serves me correctly I think that only once did 2 members of our family appear on the same thread (Tusker) so not sure how we could be manipulating things either?

However since you are so interested here is my email address so that you can contact me(or my family if you require) directly to further your investigation.

[email protected]

On a more serious note I happen to agree with Nyama's last post. All those scenarios are certainly possible.

daltonr

Hi Nyamera

I did not want to make it a racial issue. I tried to be as diplomatic as possible but it is difficult. Maybe that is the main reason the thread was banned as well before it got out of hand? So now I know where my limits are.

To all:
It is quite difficult not to give away identity and I will admit that certain facts that could possibly give away location etc. may be omitted or added.

It is nice that some people have never experienced what the thread was about - but that could be because it is not noticed?
I am on holiday at the moment(on safari). Just this morning another vehicle was departing at the exact same time as us. One of the guests commented to the driver that he had nice shoes. My response would have been "thanks very much, they do the job nicely". This guides response was "yes I bought them second hand. They were very expensive, $70". Now in my opinion that is saying a couple of things. First of all it came accross very smoothly and if I did not know better I may have not even noticed. The driver also semms to be a fantastic guy in general. But this says that a)I could not afford new shoes. b)$70 is a lot of money c)when it comes to tipping me hopefully you will remember this fact.

Please do let me know if anyone does disagree. This is just this morning, not a memory.

DonTopaz

daltonr provides us with an anecdote about an event that occurred "just this morning [on safari, as] another vehicle was departing at the exact same time as us."

daltonr's post is time-stamped at 1.48am US-Eastern time, which would be 8.48am in southern Africa.

I tend to read stuff on the Internet with a critical eye until the source of such stuff has some sort of track record. Today's post at 8.48 from someone who claims to have been on a safari drive this morning does nothing, in my mind, to buttress the credibility of that poster's other claims.

nyama

Where did daltonr say that he was on a "safari drive"? I just read that he was departing.

Shumba

Rizzuto,

The aboved mentioned could have been doing an airport drop off, driving to another lodge to pick something up...................

Your critical eye seems to forget that it is also the rainy season in Southern Africa. If the said person was working in the Sabi Sands, this mornings forcast was for showers and a possible thunderstorm. Not most poeoples cup of tea in an open vehicle. A shortened game drive perhaps?

Rather than jump down the neck of Daltonr, why not give him time to prove himself. After all, there are plenty of combinations and permutations.

daltonr

Thank you Nyama & Shumba for pointing this out to Rizzuto.

Rizzuto you did not comment on my post. What is your opinion in this? It is interesting that after reading a couple of threads I am assumed to be a South African. I think what must be remembered is that a few of us may have to 'hide' our identities - I am sure I do not have to tell you why. I do want to say that I have lived in 8 different countries in my life (3 in Europe). South Africa is one of them. Since you like to play detective I will give you something else to ponder. Two years ago I had to have my passport renewed to a bar coded passport to be able to travel into the USA. Maybe you can guess this?
Is there a reason you are trying to figure me out?