tuckeg

Atravelynn,

I would prefer not to as the company had "inherited" some guides that had been working at the lodge they acquired just as we arrived and had not been able to train or even evaluate the old staff. Since it is not representative of the company, I don't think it would be fair to them and it wouldn't be an issue now because the guide in question was replaced soon after. We were with him for only two nights and after the incident (on the second day as I recall) he was extremely careful so we weren't worried. There was a 25 year old woman from NYC in the front seat who didn't see it happen (but heard it) because she was hiding under her coat. She refused to come out for 5 minutes after it was over. She wasn't comfortable after that and probably still has nightmares.

As long as I am on the subject, there was one good result from the incident. I realized that I should trust my instincts and if I was not comfortable with the situtation demand that the guide remove me from it. Both my wife and I had a bad feeling about that elephant (and especially about the position the guide put us in) but didn't say anything. On the rest of our trip (3.5 months) there was only one other time when I had a similar vibe. At a T-junction, we turned down the stem of the T on a narrow road that had to be driven slowly. We came upon two male elephants. The closer one seemed a little nervous but not threatening. The larger one seemed agitated but was blocked by the smal ler one. The guide said we were fine where we were but thinking back to the charge, I said I wasn't comfortable there. The guide tried to reassure me but I told him that he had guests that were uneasy and he should move. At this point several of the other people in the vehicle said the same thing so we backed up. Just as we got back aways, the smaller bull moved aside and the large bull came for us. We were far enough away that the guide was able to back up and beat a hasty retreat. If we hadn't backed before he came, we might have gotten away but there would have been no margin for error.

I don't want to leave you with the impression that we didn't get close to elephants after the charge, we did n many occasions. In fact we got with a few feet of a feeding bull (he came to us) and weren't worried because he was clearly feeding and we had an escape route.

George

atravelynn

Thanks George. Knowing the guide was not typical of what to expect is helpful. Your reminder of checking your own gut instincts is good. Better to speak up, as you did, to avoid a problem.

sundowner

Here is another report
http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/...089745,00.html

The mother was 47 and the daughter was 10.

tuckeg

Isn't 10 young for a walk?

suzic

Let's face it folks, we enjoy getting close to the animals in THEIR enviornment- that is part of why we (I) go to Africa. I go with a travel company that works with Zimbabwe trained/tested PH's (the most rigid testing requirements in at least Southern Africa- to my understanding). I assess the guide myself when I meet them,. and on the first game drives/walks- I have experience with guns and human behavior assessment for danger. I accept the risk of the game walks for the exchange of the thrill, excitement and joy of spending time with the animals. I do not agree that the average 10 year old should have been on a game walk, however I was not there, and maybe she was not the average 10 year old. My condolences go out to all involved, especially the PH, who must be blaming himself in spite of doing all that he could to protect his clients in this horrible situation. People are animals also, and all animals are unpredictable- especially in musth! Suzi

hills27

We shouldn't judge the parents without knowing anything about the 10-year old. I was scuba diving with sharks at 11. And I was a better diver with a cooler head than 95% of adult divers.

tuckeg

I wasn't judging the parents, I am suprised that the camp didn't set an age limit that was older than 10.

wavejourney

tuckeg
Are you implying that if they hadn't taken the 10 yr old this wouldn't of happened? Sure sounds like it...
Viv

buzztechie

My opinion only, but I certainly didn't get tuckeg implying anything about the parents or the 10 year old or whether this would have happened if the youngster had not been there.

He was just asking about the camp's rules allowing younger kids on walking safaris. It is a question of safety... not blame.

Heck, there are age and height restrictions on kids all over the place. You can't ride that roller coaster unless you are this tall or you can't go spelunking in Carlsbad Caverns unless you are this old. I was even told I couldn't take my 13 year old very mature niece to a glass blowing class because the age limit was 15. Why? Safety reasons.

I don't think it unreasonable to ask a simple question about age limits on walking safaris.

Tanky

According to the UK press it appears it wasn't a game walk per se. They parked the vehicle up and attempted to get closer to the animal on foot. This is apparently a common occurance in Hwange according to the spokesperson.

The guide spotted the elephant was in musth and signalled the group to return to the vehicle. It was this signalling that got the elephants attention and resulted in the charge.

afrigalah

I've been away for a couple of days and have only just caught up with this thread.

Just a couple of observations...my walking safaris in Zimbabwe and Botswana have always been with an armed guide <i>plus</i> a tracker. Walking safari guides must pass stringent tests to qualify. But no amount of qualification, including firearms skills, can provide a 100% guarantee of safety. The year before I met him, my guide in Botswana had to kill a charging cow elephant but was not able to do it before the elephant had seriously injured one of his clients. My Zimbabwe guide has killed charging animals on a few occasions, but was himself slightly injured a couple of years ago when a fatally wounded buffalo &quot;fell&quot; on him after taking a shot. Guides like him carry heavy calibre rifles capable of killing elephants at close range.

As for safari age limits, they seem to me to be arbitrary and therefore often unsatisfactory. I haven't seen many children on safari, but those I have seen were teenagers and several were not, to put it mildly, well-behaved-- which tends to make a mockery of the age limit of 12 which I have encountered. I think it's a pretty safe bet that younger children would be better behaved, but it's a moot point that they might not cope as well with distressing sights. But then, nor do some adults either behave well or cope well.

John

jul_uk

I have been struggling with the ethics of doing game walks at all and this post has made me more determined that, if I really love african wildlife, I shouldn't do them. It is one thing to accept the risks to ones own personal safety but, as is re-iterated when reading afrigalah's sensible post above, heaven knows how many animals get killed to protect us when we enter their territory and they are behaving naturally.
I am not trying to impose my opinion on others or saying that this unfortunate family shouldn't have been there. This is a personal decision for each of us to make - and I would dearly like to be persuaded otherwise as I know I will be missing out on wonderful experiences.

Julie

TreeHugger

I used to be a guide in Botswana in the days before guns were allowed on walks. We would walk on Chief's Island as part of the itinerary. Fortunately, I never had an incident and I like to think that was partially due to my approach, which was always circumspect. Unfortunately, carrying a gun makes people bolder and clients often put pressure on the guide to get them closer. The general rule of thumb that I would use on walks &amp; gamedrives is that it's much more thrilling to have the animal approach you. If they avoid you then you are a bother. Knowing their behaviour and patterns helps to put yourself in their path so they come to you. I'm not suggesting that there was any kind of unprofessionalism in The Hide incident. I'd just like to point out that different expectations/tactics may put the guide under less pressure to deliver.

tuckeg

buzztechie,

That's exactly what meant. I googled the subject and I find age requirements starting at 12 with most at 16. Certainly some 10 year olds have the maturity to participate, the question is could a camp determine how mature a child is based on cursory meeting. I read an article not too long ago in one of the travel magazines about a visit to the gorillas. The author tried to sneak two underage childern on the trip. One was discovered and didn't go, but the author bragged how they had been able to get their daughter to see them even though she was underage. Later the story mentioned how the daughter took flash photos during the encounter, against all warning, and could have trigged an attack.

Tuckeg

cybor

Hi treehugger,
Can you elaborate a bit more on your comments concerning having preferance for an animal to approach you rather than avoid?

Also for an alternate scenerio, how about an animal who just makes note of your presence but continues doing whatever it's doing in a seemingly relaxed manner?

cw

Quick question--is off-road driving not allowed in Hwange, accounting for why people would be walking to get closer to the animals?

CW

napamatt

I've never really found that much to recommend walks as opposed to game drives. I am there to see birds and mammals, hopefully in interesting situations, I would consider replacing a drive with a walk to be counter-productive. Imagine walking over a rise and seeing dogs hunting in the distance, in a vehicle you can chase after them, on foot, not.
I have walked a few times and have always felt that surge of adrenaline, which I'm sure is a big factor for some people but for me, that excitement doesn't compensate for the lack of opportunity.
As for canoeing - you've got to be kidding!

steeliejim

&quot;The guide spotted the elephant was in musth and signalled the group to return to the vehicle. It was this signalling that got the elephants attention and resulted in the charge.&quot;

Again, it gets back to guide training. On our drives and walks, we were cautioned (no, directed) not to wave our arms about for any reason. The objective was to observe without the animal knowing of your presence. And on our walks, there was no question about even bothering to ask if we could get closer. We had no need there was so much wildlife wandering about at all times. It was more a question of backing away when animals going about their business approached. And, it was clear who was our leader, the boss. I wonder if the general situation in Zimbabwe makes the guides a little more desperate to please, and less likely to say no to a pushy client.

As for game walks vs. drives, we were there to do more than just &quot;see&quot; animals, to maximazie the &quot;body&quot; count. For that we could go to the zoo or game park.

Even though we did not get as close to the animals while on the walk as on our drives, by choice and for safety reasons, there was a sense of connectedness to the wildlife and the environment that you do not get from being in a vehicle, even in an open one. It is a different experience, and a different feeliing, and if done correctly, reasonably safe for the clients and animals. It, of course, is a matter of choice, and that is why we chose to do a combination of day walks and drives rather than a walking safari.

Jim

matnikstym

off roading is not allowed in Hwange. When I was there last year, the vehicles from The Hide would park near the far side of the waterhole and then the guide and guests would walk closer to the waterhole and stay behind a fallen tree to watch everything coming to drink and the elephants would come from the woods and pass by them.

atravelynn

The fact that it was the guide's actions that may have contributed to the deaths is all the more hearbreaking, troubling, and sad. I feel sorry for all involved.

From my recollection, when I've been near wildlife on foot with a guide, that guide has been real close to me. Any commands that he needed to give me could be done with eye movements, a head nod or pointing with hands at his side. There was no raising or waving of arms. Just wondering what the experience of others has been in these situations.

Could a lesson from all this be to tell your walking guide you are content to observe from a distance and definitely do not want to upset the animals? Closer is not necessarily better. It should not be the client's burden to stress this, but I don't think it can hurt. I'm going to when the occasion next presents itself.

Not that such a comment would have made any difference in this case.

Napamatt, in regard to your comment of &quot;you've got to be kidding&quot; about canoes. I had a Zimbabwe trained hunting guide who was doing walking and canoe safaris tell me that canoeing was less dangerous than walking. That is not how I feel in my gut but that's what he said. You put yourself in the greatest danger when you are on foot.