Car or Train for Mosel, and best way to Munich from there....
Apr 25th, 2010, 12:31 PM
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Car or Train for Mosel, and best way to Munich from there....
After arriving by train from Berlin, we will have a couple of days in the Mosel Valley, staying in Beilstein. From what I've read on this forum, we'll probably get a rental car for the area (recommended?) but on the last day after checking out early, we'd like to spend the day in Trier and Luxembourg City before heading to Munich by train. Is this doable? My son really wants to see the Bock Casemates in Lux City, and Trier seems well-positioned en route. Then, in the evening, we could head to Munich, possibly even on an overnight? train. Thoughts anyone??? Need some help on this. Thanks!
Apr 25th, 2010, 01:12 PM
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Hi TravelTrio,
We really loved our time in Beilstein last year. If you haven't already made your reservations, check out Hotel Haus Lippman...it is fantastic. The dinners are great. There are other Lippman hotels in town (all in the family) but this is the one we stayed at and loved. http://www.hotel-haus-lipmann.com/preis.htm
You will love Beilstein. It is so tiny and quaint. Hike to the ruined castle above town for outstanding views up and down the Mosel. It was great having a car. You can drive up river one day and down river the next. Burg Eltz was great. There are so many little towns up and down the river. It is beautiful.
It looks like there is a train that leaves Luxembourg City at 10:15 pm, changes in Metz Ville, France an hour later and then arrives in Munich at 7:16 am. Sounds like a great plan! You will definitely not a need a car in Munich.
Have a great time,
Michele
We really loved our time in Beilstein last year. If you haven't already made your reservations, check out Hotel Haus Lippman...it is fantastic. The dinners are great. There are other Lippman hotels in town (all in the family) but this is the one we stayed at and loved. http://www.hotel-haus-lipmann.com/preis.htm
You will love Beilstein. It is so tiny and quaint. Hike to the ruined castle above town for outstanding views up and down the Mosel. It was great having a car. You can drive up river one day and down river the next. Burg Eltz was great. There are so many little towns up and down the river. It is beautiful.
It looks like there is a train that leaves Luxembourg City at 10:15 pm, changes in Metz Ville, France an hour later and then arrives in Munich at 7:16 am. Sounds like a great plan! You will definitely not a need a car in Munich.
Have a great time,
Michele
Apr 25th, 2010, 02:07 PM
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I agree with Michele that Beilstein is a real nice place to stay along the Mosel. I disagree with her recommendation of taking a night train from Luxembourg to Munich. That particular train has only Liegebetten, i.e. you sleep in your cloth in a compartment with others. Besides, you have to change trains at 11
4 PM (23:04) at Metz, waiting for the next rain which leaves at 11:53 PM (23:53), about midnight. Besides, I am not sure dropping off a car in Luxemburg picked up in Germany will incur the (hefty)cross-border drop-off charge. Check that with AutoEurope. For any train schedules, check www.bahn.de.
I, pertsonally, would drive from Luxemburg (or Trier) to either Koblenz or Mannheim and drop off the car there. That is on the main line and you will have better connections. From Trier to Koblenz (going north) yopu can use the 114KM Autobahn A-6 (a bit over an hourd driving). To Mannheim, you can use the autobahns A-1/A-6, going south. These are both good autobahns. On tjis route you cando a bit additional sightseeing by going off the autobahn and foillow the Weinstrasse to Neustand and then on to Speyer (great old city) and drop the car off in Karlsruhe, or drive Speyer - Heidelberg, along the Neckar (on the Burgenstrasse/castle route) to Heilbronn to drop the car off there.
If you need more help, drop me a line.
4 PM (23:04) at Metz, waiting for the next rain which leaves at 11:53 PM (23:53), about midnight. Besides, I am not sure dropping off a car in Luxemburg picked up in Germany will incur the (hefty)cross-border drop-off charge. Check that with AutoEurope. For any train schedules, check www.bahn.de.I, pertsonally, would drive from Luxemburg (or Trier) to either Koblenz or Mannheim and drop off the car there. That is on the main line and you will have better connections. From Trier to Koblenz (going north) yopu can use the 114KM Autobahn A-6 (a bit over an hourd driving). To Mannheim, you can use the autobahns A-1/A-6, going south. These are both good autobahns. On tjis route you cando a bit additional sightseeing by going off the autobahn and foillow the Weinstrasse to Neustand and then on to Speyer (great old city) and drop the car off in Karlsruhe, or drive Speyer - Heidelberg, along the Neckar (on the Burgenstrasse/castle route) to Heilbronn to drop the car off there.
If you need more help, drop me a line.
Apr 25th, 2010, 03:34 PM
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I've been working on this all day and am still confused. It looks like we could drive over to Lux City and back to Trier, drop the car at the Trier train station and go to Munich from there by train. What do you think?
They do have an overnight to Munich, but it is really expensive (unless I'm doing something wrong). Going to post a dumb question about these Railpasses, and reservations, and so forth in a minute.
They do have an overnight to Munich, but it is really expensive (unless I'm doing something wrong). Going to post a dumb question about these Railpasses, and reservations, and so forth in a minute.
Apr 26th, 2010, 03:32 AM
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I'm skeptical about the sleeper train. I don't think Munich is far enough to justify a sleeper - you won't have enough time to sleep. It's about 5 hrs by car. From Trier, you'd have to go to Saarbrucken and catch the CNL at 1:00 AM. From Luxemburg City, you wouldn't be getting on your sleeper train (after an hour layover in Metz) until midnight. I guarantee you'll be sitting in Metz between 11 PM and midnight waiting for the sleeper, wishing you were in bed.
I am concerned about trying to spend the last day in both Luxumburg City and Trier. I think you probably have to choose one or the other, or just be resigned to taking a quick stop in Trier for dinner or something.
The train from Trier to Munich is 6 hrs, it looks like. Treplow gives you great advice that you should drive the rental car for a stretch in the direction of Munich, perhaps catching a quicker connection in Mannheim, saving you some time and money. You might consider breaking up the trip in that area (Neckar/Heidelberg) before moving on to Munich. If you overnighted somewhere in between, you could justify simply driving the rental car to Munich to drop it off, since you won't need the rental car for your stay in the city.
I am concerned about trying to spend the last day in both Luxumburg City and Trier. I think you probably have to choose one or the other, or just be resigned to taking a quick stop in Trier for dinner or something.
The train from Trier to Munich is 6 hrs, it looks like. Treplow gives you great advice that you should drive the rental car for a stretch in the direction of Munich, perhaps catching a quicker connection in Mannheim, saving you some time and money. You might consider breaking up the trip in that area (Neckar/Heidelberg) before moving on to Munich. If you overnighted somewhere in between, you could justify simply driving the rental car to Munich to drop it off, since you won't need the rental car for your stay in the city.
Apr 26th, 2010, 04:35 AM
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I would rent a car in Berlin and return it in Munich. I think the Mosel area and Bavaria are best explored by car because you will have much more flexibility. From Munich, you can take the train to your next destination, which if I recall from your other posts, is somewhere in Austria.
Apr 26th, 2010, 05:00 AM
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If I look at this and your other postings, I am wondering if you should make up your mind if you really want to pay more than €200 for a sleeper train from Trier to Munich.
As others have said, even by German standards the drive from Trier to Munich is not an excessively long one.
Renting a car for 4 or 5 days is often not cheaper than for a whole week - or at least the difference becomes marginal.
I would not want to drive from Berlin to the Mosel region. I'd rather fly to Hahn from Berlin. And pick up rental car for whatever itinerary you have in mind, including Luxembourg, excluding Luxembourg, whatever.
Then drive Mosel-Munich.
With a €200something budget (compared with sleeper train) you can afford any hotel plus costs for gas if you want to overnight somewhere in between.
And hanging around Metz or Saarbrücken central station way past midnight to wait for a sleeper train does also not sound too comfortable or appealing. By the time you drove to Trier, dropped off car, got to the station, took regional train to Saarbrücken, waited for sleeper train, you'd be halfway to Munich or Füssen by car.
If training from Mosel to Munich is a must, I'd rather start the Mosel trip at the SWmost point (be it Trier or even Lux) and work my way downstream to Koblenz or to nearby Montabaur where rail connections to Munich are much better (also during the day).
As others have said, even by German standards the drive from Trier to Munich is not an excessively long one.
Renting a car for 4 or 5 days is often not cheaper than for a whole week - or at least the difference becomes marginal.
I would not want to drive from Berlin to the Mosel region. I'd rather fly to Hahn from Berlin. And pick up rental car for whatever itinerary you have in mind, including Luxembourg, excluding Luxembourg, whatever.
Then drive Mosel-Munich.
With a €200something budget (compared with sleeper train) you can afford any hotel plus costs for gas if you want to overnight somewhere in between.
And hanging around Metz or Saarbrücken central station way past midnight to wait for a sleeper train does also not sound too comfortable or appealing. By the time you drove to Trier, dropped off car, got to the station, took regional train to Saarbrücken, waited for sleeper train, you'd be halfway to Munich or Füssen by car.
If training from Mosel to Munich is a must, I'd rather start the Mosel trip at the SWmost point (be it Trier or even Lux) and work my way downstream to Koblenz or to nearby Montabaur where rail connections to Munich are much better (also during the day).
Apr 26th, 2010, 05:44 AM
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On rail pass versus point to point, you need to decide where you are going to take trains and then add up the costs and compare to the rail pass cost. When we were in Germany last summer, we took trains twice between cities. The rail pass would have cost more than the point to point tickets. I determined for us that a rail pass would only make sense financially if we had more than 3 train segments. I don't know how else for you to compare but to do the math for your trip.
Apr 26th, 2010, 11:43 AM
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well calculating fares is a snap at www.bahn.de - the German rail web site - it gives full fares - those you buy at stations and, if available, discounted fares that can be a flat say 39 euros or less regardless of distance.
the advantage of a railpass is that you can just hop on practically any train in Germany anytime and thus compared to full fares two long trips may pay for the pass - if you know exactly when you want to go and can put up with non-refundable non-changeable tickets then that is the way to go if only taking a handful of trains. The pass however gets much cheaper per day when you add on additional days over the base price - like $20 p.p. per extra day for unlimited calendar day of travel anywhere in Germany on any train (except for the handful of IC Sprinters, Thalys and French TGV trains serving Germany which do require reservations - but 99.9% of trains you can just hop on. If doing full fare Berlin to Mosel and then to Munich i'd hazzard the pass could be cheaper and give you some extra days to boot. Passes are also valid on the K-D boats on the Rhine and Mosel - or most of them except night cruise boats and a few hydrofoils.
For loads on German trains and German Railpasses, etc i always highlight these Wunderbar sites - www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com. For schedules the bahn.de site is super - even giving you platform numbers for your trains and what tram or bus to take from your hotel or any address to the train station, etc.
the advantage of a railpass is that you can just hop on practically any train in Germany anytime and thus compared to full fares two long trips may pay for the pass - if you know exactly when you want to go and can put up with non-refundable non-changeable tickets then that is the way to go if only taking a handful of trains. The pass however gets much cheaper per day when you add on additional days over the base price - like $20 p.p. per extra day for unlimited calendar day of travel anywhere in Germany on any train (except for the handful of IC Sprinters, Thalys and French TGV trains serving Germany which do require reservations - but 99.9% of trains you can just hop on. If doing full fare Berlin to Mosel and then to Munich i'd hazzard the pass could be cheaper and give you some extra days to boot. Passes are also valid on the K-D boats on the Rhine and Mosel - or most of them except night cruise boats and a few hydrofoils.
For loads on German trains and German Railpasses, etc i always highlight these Wunderbar sites - www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com. For schedules the bahn.de site is super - even giving you platform numbers for your trains and what tram or bus to take from your hotel or any address to the train station, etc.
Apr 26th, 2010, 12:59 PM
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anyway even if you stay in Beilstein - a really tiny town at arguably the most scenic of the often awesomely scenic Mosel Valley, there is frequent bus service up and down the river - down to train service at Cochem
Do you like to bike - the Mosel is one of Europe's primo biking venues and folks come from far and wide to enjoy this deep sinuous gorge by bike - rentals abound and some hotels may even provide bikes to roll along the bike paths that hug the river.
And in season there is boat service between Beilstein and Cochem. Without a car however Cochem with its great rail service is a better base if wanting to explore also the Rhine Gorge - rail lines on each side stop at every little wine town and K-D boats are popular between Rudesheim and Koblenz, the most gorgeous part of the Rhine Gorge.
Trier and Luxembourg, two really unique places, are a short train ride from Cochem.
You hardly need a private vehicle IMO to enjoy this Wunderbar area.
Do you like to bike - the Mosel is one of Europe's primo biking venues and folks come from far and wide to enjoy this deep sinuous gorge by bike - rentals abound and some hotels may even provide bikes to roll along the bike paths that hug the river.
And in season there is boat service between Beilstein and Cochem. Without a car however Cochem with its great rail service is a better base if wanting to explore also the Rhine Gorge - rail lines on each side stop at every little wine town and K-D boats are popular between Rudesheim and Koblenz, the most gorgeous part of the Rhine Gorge.
Trier and Luxembourg, two really unique places, are a short train ride from Cochem.
You hardly need a private vehicle IMO to enjoy this Wunderbar area.
Apr 26th, 2010, 06:23 PM
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At the risk of repeating what others have said or implied: A rail pass makes only sense if you use the trains a lot. I would venture to guess that in your situation, point -to-point tickets are more economical.
Apr 26th, 2010, 08:10 PM
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rhkkmk? I think you've helped me with previous trips! Cambodia maybe?
I will do as you suggest, and book the car from Mosel to Munich, so I have it for the full Bavarian swing. I'm getting so excited for this trip. Sometimes I think I enjoy the planning (obsessing, questioning, researching, Fodor-ing) as much as the traveling!
I will do as you suggest, and book the car from Mosel to Munich, so I have it for the full Bavarian swing. I'm getting so excited for this trip. Sometimes I think I enjoy the planning (obsessing, questioning, researching, Fodor-ing) as much as the traveling!
Apr 27th, 2010, 07:23 AM
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>At the risk of repeating what others have said or implied: A rail pass makes only sense if you use the trains a lot. I would venture to guess that in your situation, point -to-point tickets are more economical.>
No not always and not in this scenario IF they just show up at stations and buy full-fare tickets which i think for Berlin to Mosel and around Mosel and then to Munich would be more than a German Railpass.
It would be true if you book the online discounted and restricted tickets well in advance.
So that has to be qualified IMO
No not always and not in this scenario IF they just show up at stations and buy full-fare tickets which i think for Berlin to Mosel and around Mosel and then to Munich would be more than a German Railpass.
It would be true if you book the online discounted and restricted tickets well in advance.
So that has to be qualified IMO
Apr 27th, 2010, 11:00 AM
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For example, referring to a German Railpass vs regular tickets - ones you buy at the station
Berlin to Cochem is, according to bahn.de 121 euro and Cochem to Munich 102 euro
makes 223 euro or about $310 and i believe there is a German Twin Railpass that is about $100 cheaper than just these two regular fares alone and provides for more than two days of unlimited rail travel (and K-D boats on Rhine and Mosel are also covered like trains)
Now at bahn.de you can get fares of 39 euros often so that would make the pass higher - so it depends on what kind of fares you talk about - and whether or not you desire total flexibility to board any train anytime - priceless to me but not to others perhaps.
Berlin to Cochem is, according to bahn.de 121 euro and Cochem to Munich 102 euro
makes 223 euro or about $310 and i believe there is a German Twin Railpass that is about $100 cheaper than just these two regular fares alone and provides for more than two days of unlimited rail travel (and K-D boats on Rhine and Mosel are also covered like trains)
Now at bahn.de you can get fares of 39 euros often so that would make the pass higher - so it depends on what kind of fares you talk about - and whether or not you desire total flexibility to board any train anytime - priceless to me but not to others perhaps.
Apr 28th, 2010, 09:49 AM
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With the really high price of full fare tickets - like about $170 Berlin to Cochem alone and then about $140 Cochem to Munich - these two full fare tickets are about $125 MORE than a 3-day unlimited train travel German Railpass in a one-month period (flexipass - use the unlimited travel days on any day of your chosing as you go along within an overall one-month period)
The following prices are p.p. for a Twin Pass - two people traveling together and two names on one pass - you can see that after the base price of 3 days extra days p.p. are an incredibly low IMO $15-20/day - even rivaling the Lander Tickets in cost and you can use the express trains as well.
And again it depends on whether you want flexibility to hop any train anytime - but even then if you do enough of say 39 euro discounted restricted tickets - say five that is still 200 euros - about the same cost as a five-day flexipass that gives you the ultimate freedom of flexibility to hop any train anytime
German Twin Pass Prices p.p.
3days/1 month = $185
4= $201
5= $215
6= $238
7= $261
8= $285
9= $307
10=$329
The following prices are p.p. for a Twin Pass - two people traveling together and two names on one pass - you can see that after the base price of 3 days extra days p.p. are an incredibly low IMO $15-20/day - even rivaling the Lander Tickets in cost and you can use the express trains as well.
And again it depends on whether you want flexibility to hop any train anytime - but even then if you do enough of say 39 euro discounted restricted tickets - say five that is still 200 euros - about the same cost as a five-day flexipass that gives you the ultimate freedom of flexibility to hop any train anytime
German Twin Pass Prices p.p.
3days/1 month = $185
4= $201
5= $215
6= $238
7= $261
8= $285
9= $307
10=$329
Apr 23rd, 2012, 12:28 PM
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"It looks like there is a train that leaves Luxembourg City at 10:15 pm, changes in Metz Ville, France an hour later and then arrives in Munich at 7:16 am. Sounds like a great plan! You will definitely not a need a car in Munich."
Any idea where I can locate this overnight train to reserve?
I have a Global Eurail Pass, so I may skip on renting a car and try to boat from town-to-town. Feasible?
I will be coming from Koln (cologne) down the Rhine to Koblenz, and then down the Mosel to Beilstein before trying to find an overnight train to Munich.
Any idea where I can locate this overnight train to reserve?
I have a Global Eurail Pass, so I may skip on renting a car and try to boat from town-to-town. Feasible?
I will be coming from Koln (cologne) down the Rhine to Koblenz, and then down the Mosel to Beilstein before trying to find an overnight train to Munich.
