Ackislander

Out at the Nantucket dump today, I ran into an old friend who had stayed in Country X for two weeks longer than the 90 days allowed in the Schengen countries.

He was born in the US and raised in Country X. He didn't come back to the US on a more-or-less permanent basis until he went to University. Having been raised in Country X, he is so fluent in the language that he speaks English with a slight accent.

He has gone back frequently, and it never occurred to him that he would need a visa to stay more than 90 days (he is an artist and may have his head somewhat focused on Higher Things). He had no intention to deceive or manipulate the rules.

No one has ever said anything on his other trips, but this year he exited the Schengen Zone through Switzerland. The Swiss nailed him for overstaying the limit by 2 weeks. It cost him the equivalent of $400 in fines, and he is banned from the entire Schengen Zone for a year.

Your mileage may vary, but this is a data point worth thinking about for those who wonder if they need to worry about the 90 day limit.

Alec

The Swiss are notorious for applying the rules by the letter, so I'm not surprised. Have heard similar stories. Other countries with a similar attitude include the Netherlands and Germany. Latin countries like Spain and Italy tend to be more easy-going. Clearly, the best course of action to avoid any hassles at borders is not to break the rules.

thursdaysd

Doesn't he have a passport for country X? I leave/re-enter the US on my US passport, but I enter/leave Europe on my UK one. Good and useul info, though.

sandralist

Most people don't understand Schengen rules or how they are enforced. Being an artist (woo! you know artists!) has nothing to do with it. Whenever I am in the midst of renewing official residency documents, if I need to travel out of Europe, I avoid exiting and re-entering through the above-mentioned countries, and also the UK -- and not because I don't follow the rules. I follow them meticulously. Even though I always carry every single document needed that proves the legal right to travel unimpeded, officials in airports in these countries cannot be relied upon to follow the established rules respecting documents. And it's worse than them being merely annoying martinets. They're actually looking for people to "nail." To what purpose, anybody's guess, but it's not about applying the rules. They're just flattering themselves with that description. Mainly they just abuse the intent of the system.

janisj

>>Being an artist (woo! you know artists!) has nothing to do with it.<<

The <i>rest</i> of us understood what ackislander meant.

>>but it's not about applying the rules. They're just flattering themselves with that description. Mainly they just abuse the intent of the system.<<

okaaay

sandralist

Not only speaking for ackislander, but all the rest of "us" -- ??? Who is "us"?

Gratutitous description came across as name-dropping (I live in a neighborhood where I rub elbows with arrtists at the dump), not to mention the put down of artists supposedly being airheads with their minds being on (snarky caps) Higher Things.

Like I said, most people -- artists, the well-educated, the intelligent, professionals, the low-minded, whomever -- don't understand Schengen.

As for your closer -- you don't travel much throughout Europe.

SaylerT

Sandralist
I always think the same thing when people say we or us.
I don't see it on other forums.

It reminds me of the Borg of Star trek
Resistance is futile on Fodors

I know I will be trampled by the clan but it really is what comes to my mind.

hetismij2

Officials aren't looking for people to nail. They are doing what they are paid for. No bonuses for every illegal they spot.

Just because Ackislander's friend grew up in a country doesn't mean he qualifies for the nationality of that country or it is even desirable to have that nationality, since some countries don't allow dual nationality.

thursdaysd

@hetiismij2:

1. Qualifies - Point taken

2. Legal and desirable - We're talking Schengen countries here, name me one to which your description applies

hetismij2

The Netherlands for instance
doesn't allow dual nationality.
Not all European countries are as profligate with their nationality as Italy and Ireland.

Ackislander

Several Schengen countries continue to have universal military service that makes their nationality less than desirable. There are also, I believe, significant differences in taxation policy, but I am no expert.

Before WW I, no one needed a passport to travel and settle anywhere in Europe, only a letter of credit from a bank.

In the 1920's, one could live in a garret in Paris and paint or write pretty much as long as one wanted. I think this continued after WW II as ex-GI's with education benefits settled places like Paris and Rome.

In my era, the 1960's and 1970's, a year's backpacking in Europe was a rite of passage for many Americans, though I was too poor to do this, Sandra.

So I do agree with Sandra that many people outside the Zone simply do not know that the regulations exist, unless they read Fodor's, of course.

Sassafrass

If people have not traveled outside the US, or their only experience was backpacking years ago for as long as they wanted, even working jobs along the way, they may be completely unaware of current laws. If they are new to travel, they may not know what questions to ask or what websites to look at.

That is why forums like Fodors serves such a good purpose. It is also why a bit of patience is nice when people are asking for help. Of course, it is a different case when people know the laws and try to get around them.

tom_mn

Unsolicited commentary: A UK entry stamp says "entry for 6 months" and allows a time interval that covers practically all tourist situations.

A Schengen entry stamp says nothing at all about length, and the regulations are fairly convoluted and require that examples be presented for there to be comprehension. Also, 3 months in 6 is not enough for many ordinary tourist instances. A simple 6 month entry like the UK would be a lot more straightforward.

hetismij2

How many tourists have the luxury of 6 months travel?

The reason it is 90 days is because that is what the US offers European travellers.
What's good for the goose...

It is up to visitors to another country to establish visa requirements and laws of that country before they visit.

tom_mn

>>The reason it is 90 days is because that is what the US offers European travellers.

I doubt it, it's the same 90 days for Japan and Brazil and Canada, etc. And it's not really the same situation, as there is more to see in the Schengen area than in the USA.

hetismij2

More to see in the Schengen area than the USA ? You have to be joking. Maybe you don't know your country very well.

Most countries allow 90 days visa free, so I can't see why 90 days visa free for Schengen is such a problem. You can see quite a bit of the zone in 90 days.

If you have so much time you want to stay longer apply for a visa to do so.

Don't blame the border officials for enforcing the rules.
It would be better to criticise those who don't rather than those who do.

socialworker

Janis, I understood, so I guess I am part of your "us".

Also, in MA, of which Nantucket is a part, it is very common to have to take your trash to the dump. Many towns (we lived in one for 30+ years) do not want to have trash/garbage out on the streets weekly, so there is *no* trash pickup and you must either take or your own or arrange to have someone take it for you. This means that many people run into each other quite often at the dump.

SaylerT

I live in a community outside of city limits,so my family goes to a recycle/waste facility.
But we are busy putting all the different materials into the proper sorting containers.
Yes we separate it at home,but still have to drop it all in the appropriate container.
So not much talk.
We meet and talk most mornings while walking our
dogs on the beach or the walking path.
Not much beyond hello at the municipal dump
And I am so happy to be an individual and not a we.