wittsdd

Hello Everyone,

I am thinking of going in July of 07. The rates at Mala Mala are lower than those of Londolozi. Anyone think I should pay the higher rate for Londolozi?

Thanks,
Danny

emdee

I havent been to Mala Mala but had a wonderful safari at Londolozi.

africaddict

Hi Danny

That's a no brainer........MM for sure!
Greater traversing area and larger and greater diversification of wildlife numbers. More chance of seeing a predator kill.
This is just IMHO , however I'm sure most Fodorites who have been to MM would agree!

Cheers
Marc

wittsdd

hehehe Thanks. Just goes to show you that just because its more expensive does not mean its better

atravelynn

I have not been to either or to the Sabi Sands. But for my 1st visit I chose Mala Mala for 4 nights even though I am also going to Phinda, another CC Africa camp like Londolozi.

So, according to you, I'm getting a bargain! Good.

napamatt

I vote for MM, but having been there 9 times, I'm biased. Search for posts by AustKaye or Kaye N, she has been to both on a number of occasions, and is very firmly in favor of MM.

KayeN

Hi Danny,

This is not a question. MalaMala wins with me hands down, no question about it! I have been to Londolozi a couple of times, and really did not enjoy the first visit, but did enjoy the second visit though it helped enormously to have a private vehicle. Have been to MalaMala quite a few times and shall be there 3 times next year and I cannot wait for 31 December when I arrive, then again in March and then back in December.

My most favourite place in the world without a doubt!!!

Kind regards,

Kaye

atravelynn

In case Mala Mala wins for wittsdd and for my benefit, can any of you Mala Mala lovers recommend a guide or two?

How come Mala Mala is so preferred if all these places are in the Sabi Sands?

Is it because it is so big that you can follow the animals more easily?

Does the water availability draw the game?

Is it because it has been around so long that the animals are more habituated?

Thanks.

napamatt

Lynn

I can only speak for my own viewpoint, only ever having visited MM in the Sabi Sand.

I love the quality of the reserve, from the way you are treated, the quality of food and accomodation to the emphasis on game viewing. I really respect the management philosophy, "people are here to see the wildlife, not get a facial etc" (My quotes)

The large river frontage is definitely an advantage during the dry season, though Sabi Sabi and Lion Sands with Sabi river frontage probably have the edge when the sand river stops flowing.

The property is large, large enough that you really struggle to reach the south when staying at Main camp, unless you pass up sightings on the way. Because the property covers so much ground it is home to more Leopards and more Lion prides, that generally means someone will be "home" when you visit. I remember last year seeing the resident male Leopard from Lion Sands, just outside Kirkmans. His territory overlaps a number of camps, so if he is in another part of his territory you are SOL. MM has 4 males who are almost exclusively on MM, another who spends 50%+ and a couple more who spend less.

Hope that helps.

As for rangers, our favorite of the last few visits has left now, so we are back to pot luck. Though Bens, a tracker who has successfully become a ranger does a lovely job.

Leopards - unbelievable density of habituated Leopards. Better still, a real commitment to record keeping, which allows geeks like myself to know that we are on the fourth generation of one Leopard family and the third of another.

santharamhari

Lynn,

I've been to 3 properties in the SSGR....MM, Lion Sands and Exeter Dulini.

MM, as Napamatt mentioned is HUGE and the biggest and so obviously, there are more sightings going around.

Leopards- i dont know about quantity of leopards on their property vs elsewhere....but, i've had great sightings at all 3.

Exeter Dulini is a small lodge, but the whole Westeren SSGR is only 10,000 hectares and is shared between ALL the lodges. The jeeps are PACKED and the stay at sightings are SHORT.

Lionsands was the only trip of mine to the SSGR where i saw cheetah. Nice lodge, but packed vehicles.....

I think i remember having read on these boards that Londolozi and Singita share some sightings between the two.....

IF i return to the SSGR, i would try and visit Simbambilli only because i have heard plenty of great things about it. I met a family at Lebala in August who spoke very highly of it, in addition to all the kudos on these boards. However, i dont have a visit scheduled to the Sabi Sands for next year.

Hari

santharamhari

MM Huge, in terms of traversing area....

Hari

eyelaser

I have been to MM twice, most recently in Aug. 2004 and as well to Singita twice (Boulders and Ebony) and Djuma once (2005). I agree that MM has the potential for great viewing especially cats, but having said that my experience was just so-so. I have not seen the two new MM lodges which are more luxurious than Main camp but are also much smaller but my biggest issue with MM was that when not on the game drives it felt like a hotel. I did not feel quite that way at Singita but it was almost too formal for Africa. Having said that, I have had my best game experiences there including a cheetah kill eventually stolen by a pride of lions and a leopard kill at night. It is also double the cost of MM now (was on par when I was there). Djuma (Vuytela lodge) has a much more Botswana like feel as it is smaller and really family run with the owners very hands on. The game viewing is excellent with good leopard sightings as well as a better chance to see cheetah then some of the other Sabi Sand properties. They have limited traversing rights with other properties so that the number of vehicles at any one sighting is very limited. One can also take a private guide if booked in advance. Graeme was great fun and very knowledgeable. Check out the private guide feature on their website www.Djuma.co.za I am sure Londolozi is also great with a well earned reputation for superb leopard viewing and I can't help but think that when the Varty's take over management again that the whole experience will be even better. If you plan on just one place I would agree Mala Mala gives the most bang for the buck but you will definetly notice just how different their concept and lets say Wilderness Safari's Botswana camp concepts are if you travel to Botswana. Having said all this if this is your first trip you will be blown away by everything you see and I am sure it will only be the first in a series of African trips.
Regards,
Eric

santharamhari

Eric,

What makes Djuma a good cheetah venue?

Hari

napamatt

Probably luck.

With my experience at MM, I could claim it as a great Cheetah and Wild Dog location.

I've seen dogs on 4 out of 9 trips and Cheetah on 7. Most Cheetah in one day - 5.

SSGR is brilliant for Lion and Leopard, the rest is a bonus, with ranges as large as they are for Dogs and Cheetah it's all down to luck.

eyelaser

Hari, I think they have more open space with lower grasses. I believe that the grass is cut intentionally in some places probably not as an inducement to "lure" cheetahs but it has that effect. There may be a more scientific reason that has to do with terrain or lower density of leopards and lions as well but even the rangers at Mala Mala will tell you that finding cheetahs are much chancier than leopards and their statistics bear that out. If you go onto Djuma's rangers' diary which is not very informative compared to Mala Mala's exceptional one you will read about cheetah sighting with regularity. As I am sure you know Djuma sits on Mala Mala's northern border and there are often sighting of leopards such as the White Cloth Female and Manyeletti Male on both properites over a few months time. I suspect the cheetahs cross over as well. If you go to Djuma's photo gallery for 2005 you will find a few of my pix (Saddle bill stork with fish is the opening shot) including my favorite cheetah shots.
Regards,
Eric

santharamhari

Eric,

Thanks for the info....will look up their website for the sightings reports....

I'm trying to figure out why they would cut the grasses to keep them low? Better visibility for all game?

Hari

santharamhari

I think....you hit the nail on the head....if there is a lower density of lion and leopard for whatever reason, then that's probably why the cheetah sightings at Djuma are up....

Has probably nothing to do with the "intentional" height of the grasses at Djuma. I'm sure you remember that other thread from not so long ago with regards to Botswana....

Hari

napamatt

There a lot of fire breaks burned each year which keeps the grass down, then there are the open areas, created many years ago, where many of the grazers feed and where the grass species tend to be lower. I've yet to see a guy on a riding lawnmower up at Clarendon, but anything is possible. But with Djuma bordering MM, I can't see there would be that much difference in number of Cheetah sightings, they will be seeing all the same animals.

Marksafari17

Hi Lynn
I chose to answer your post as my last one to you was not exactly dictionery perfect.
MALA MALA. I just flew VIP guests in there this morning on a Pilatus 12. Why did they choose Mala Mala. Now to be honest their first choice was Singita but I could not get availability. Now the question is which is better. My guests have previously been to both and they themselves cannot decide which is better. Tonight they are dining with the owners as per their request but I cannot guarantee any sightings tomorrow.
Mark

cary999

Thanks Mark,
Very interesting. Sightings tomorrow? On their first game drive I guarantee they will see leopard, lion, elephant at minimum. If they do not, I owe them a drink at Mala's bar.
regards - tom