snurffel

Hi all. I am JUST starting the research to plan a trip to Zion at the end of May (post-Memorial Day) or the beginning of June.

A little about our group:
- It'll be 3 couples, no kids, each couple driving 6-8 hours from different states to meet in Zion.
- We're generally in good health (I have a partially new knee, and by the end of May, I'm hoping to be able to tackle some proper hikes; right now, I'm able to do ~3 mile treks, and going down is more difficult than going up - and yes, I realize to go up, you must be able to come down ).
- At least one couple will be going on to visit Bryce Canyon and Arches after our Zion trip is done.
- We probably have about 3-5 days after we factor in driving to and from Zion and our respective homes.
- We are definitely open to the idea of splitting our time between camping and staying in an inexpensive hotel/lodge/motel.

I'm trying to determine exactly how many days we should allot, what activities other than hiking there may be, and whether there are easy day trips to other locations to mix things up a bit (though I realize Zion is HUGE and varied, and we may not need to leave to see really different kinds of terrain).

Not being terribly familiar with what to expect from Zion at different times of year, here are my impressions (I'm waiting on some books from the library for more info):
- it'll get HOT starting mid-June, which we're trying to avoid
- The Narrows would be great, but they may be full of water (though maybe not this year since we've had such little snow in the west?) and inaccessible
- campsites can only be reserved at the Watchman Campground, and the others are first-come, first-served.
- Angel's Landing sounds incredible, but I may personally need to bow out due to my knee.

Thanks in advance for everyone's help and advice!

Nelson

You are doing your homework!

Angel's Landing is incredible, but having a bum knee on the tough sections would be ... a bummer, especially descending.

Still, you could walk the lower parts of the trail, even before Walter's Wiggles and decide when to turn back. It's all highly scenic. For example, this photo was taken there:
http://nelsonchenkin.zenfolio.com/p2...de39#h1a40de39

The Pa'rus trail is easy and beautiful. The Emerald Falls walk is popular but worthwhile.

The Kolub section is less popular and the 2.5 mile hike in to Double Arch Alcove is super. It does some climbing, but never too steeply as I recall.

The ghost town of Grafton is worth a visit. "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" was filmed there.

With only 5 days I'd either camp or motel to save time moving between the two, but to each his own on that one.

Have a great trip.

snurffel

Ha. Just read about the Narrows. It sounds like that's harder than Angel's Landing!

Nelson

It's harder in the sense of maintaining your footing, definitely a consideration with your knee. You are constantly stepping on stuff that moves, and the water is trying to knock you over.

But it's as aerobic or as exposed as Angel's Landing. The exposure is a show stopper for some.

I'd start up both of them, conditions permitting, and just turn back when it makes sense for you. They are both amazing. The lower section of the Narrows isn't bad if the water's not too high.

spirobulldog

I don't think The Narrows are 1/10 as hard as Angels Landing. You will see 2 year old kids in The Narrows. You can always turn around at any point. It would be easy to slip on the rocks, but that wouldn't really have anything to do with a bum knee. Rent the water specific hiking shoes(canyoneer 5-10's is what I believe Zion Adventure Company Rents)for greater traction. You may even want to rent a wetsuit.

Angels Landing or even to Scout's Lookout would be very difficult to do with a bad knee. A lot of the popular hikes in Bryce and Zion have a lot of elevation gain/loss. You might consider doing the horseback ride down into the canyon at Bryce.

ElendilPickle

With five days, you could easily combine Zion and Bryce Canyon, since they are close to one another. Leave Zion in the early afternoon, get to Bryce in time for sunset, stay overnight, then get up for sunrise the next morning. See what you want to see there, and head back to Zion.

Lee Ann

Nelson

Typo: I meant to say the Narrows is not as aerobic as Angel's Landing ...

Thel

I agree with ElendilPickle and spirobulldog - If you are at Zion, Bryce is NOT TO BE MISSED and a horseback ride into the canyon is a good idea for your knee. I'd try to call ahead and book the horseback ride - because we were at the No. Rim Grand Vanyon last year and were closed out of horseback riding, bec. we did not book in advance.

Also - for lodging, Springdale is near the Zion entrance - very convenient to the park and many motels.

If your knee allows - TRY the Narrows - must have sturdy water shoes and walking sticks that can be rented in Springdale. Also - not to be missed!

One more not to be missed for your friends - Fiery Furnace in Arches. Must sign up at the ranger station in advance to go on the ranger guided trail unbelievable!

Fantastic location - have a great trip!

Thel

snurffel

It's good to keep in mind that one doesn't need to do the entire hike... I guess I'm just a completionist in that way!

By the way, beautiful photos, @Nelson!

WhereAreWe

I would be cautious about the horseback ride, depending on what exactly is the knee issue. Straddling a horse is not a natural position and you don't know how your knee would react to that. It's not at all like sitting in a chair and relaxing. For sure you can try a short ride, but I would be leery of something 4 hours or more.

Since you say your more concerned about the downhill than the uphill, Bryce is perfect for you since you will go down and then come up. Research the hikes and pick the one is best for your condition. For sure test out some downhills at home before the trip - you might find that you can tolerate a shorter/steeper downhill better because it's over quicker, or conversely you might be better off with something more gradual that takes longer. The hike descriptions below have elevation gain/loss and an elevation profile which gives you an idea of the steepness.
http://www.nps.gov/brca/planyourvisit/hiking.htm

Nelson

Ditto what WhereAreWe said re horses and downhill hiking. A couple of years ago my wife and I did a 3-day mule trip, something totally new for us. Some 2-3 hours into the first day I had to get off and start walking. My knees were killing me.

It had to do how my foot twisted into the stirrup. Eventually we adjusted it better. By day three I was OK and we were sorry we hadn't booked the 6-day option, but on day one I was hurting.

Do you hike with trekking poles? Consider it if not, they are especially great for downhill.

Thanks for your comment on my photos.

Have a great trip! Fantastic country there.

J62

My first piece of advice is to heed spiro's advice. He's given me some great input for my trips to the southwest.

The narrows (a bottom up hike) is definitely not nearly as difficult as an Angel's landing hike. Not even close The hike to Scouts landing is physically the most difficult part as it's basically straight up many switchbacks. The final 1/4 mile all the way to Angel's landing is nerve challenging. I was unable to make the final segment due to nerves.

Late May/Early June you should have no issues with water level in the Narrows. At the beginning of may a drysuit is recommended. I also think that by that time you probably won't need a wetsuit. Definitely not a dry suit for sure. The co's that rent gear (boots, poles, suits) can give you a fair recommendation of what's needed that day, or you can ask other hikers who are exiting the narrows what they thought. I definitely recommend water hiking boots and a wooden pole, even if you have a collapsible metal hiking pole.

I don't like to use poles either for uphill or downhill. Most of the trails at Zion (near the valley) are paved, or at least flat/graded. These include the Angel's landing trail up to scout's landing (not the final leg), and the long climb up to Observation Point. Coming down those trails I find that a slow jog is actually far easier on my knees since you stay in motion rather than jolting yourself to a stop with each step.

For lodging, I'm in the minority group that recommends staying in the town of Springdale, just outside Zion NP. There's a new LaQuinta that's very well located, and a new Hampton Inn on the far side of town plus numerous other hotels. The Hampton is still a good location, just not as close to the park. IIRC you can walk to the park entrance/shuttle buses from the LQ. If not it's no more than one or 2 stops on the free town shuttle. On my last trip there I stayed at the Cable Mtn Lodge and the location could not have been better. Two min walk from my room, across the pedestrian bridge into the park to the valley shuttle. Loved the pool & hot tub, and easy access to many restaurants & the food market.

On my last trip to Zion I spent a full week there & could have stayed even longer. In addition to several long days hiking (Angel's landing onward to the West Rim, Observation Point, and Narrows), I also spent several days biking. One day a long multi loop road bike ride in the valley to and beyond the tunnel, one day a mtn bike ride near the town of Hurricane, and a 3rd day a long road ride up towards the Kolob reservoir.

There is a great bike shop in town that rents mtn and road bikes if you or anybody in the group is interested.

The last thing I'd recommend at Zion is a canyoneering adventure - you can book these through one of the adventure shops in town. I've not done that, but it looks like a great way to explore some of the slot canyons in or nearby the park.

snurffel

Wow, thanks so much for the advice, everyone! I did a horseback ride in Bryce last year, and you're right... the stirrups definitely don't do great things for tweaked knees (though what you get to see during the ride is incredible). But, since then, I've had a knee replacement, so I MIGHT be OK for that... it's only been 2 months post-op and I'm making a great recovery, so I'm still figuring out what I'm going to be capable of by the time this trip rolls around! I mean... I really MIGHT be able to do those more strenuous hikes (here's to hoping my doctor & physical therapist doesn't see this post...)!

J62: why do you prefer wooden sticks over metal ones? Also, I checked out the canyoneering adventures with the Zion Adventure Company - you weren't kidding! Those look incredible!

I think for lodging, I'm now leaning toward getting a hotel. With no shower facilities and all the physical activity that we're hoping to do, I think we might want to at least rinse off at the end of a day

Looking through the various forums and whatnot, I'm getting so excited for this trip! Thanks again for all your help, guys!

J62

I prefer the wooden sticks while walking in the river since they are very rigid and sturdy. More so than the collapsible Al poles. You can put all your weight on them to hop over a deep spot, or brace yourself firmly on the uneven rocks, or reach it out to help steady someone else in an uneven spot.

Perhaps I'm just partial to a good ole fashioned wooden pole too. I have one at home I take with me hiking locally - found a nice sapling in the woods many years ago and whittled it smooth.

StantonHyde

I am huge believer in walking sticks. They are proven to reduce strain on your knees. You can put rubber tips on them when you are on rocks/pavement. I wouldn't hike the Narrows with out them--lots of slippery rocks. I backpacked the Paria River for a week (basically in the water the whole time) and we all lived for our poles!! I got the Black Diamond ones that have screw clamps on them vs. the Leki ones that you twist into place. The twist ones kept collapsing on me, the BD ones do not.

Nelson

Like any piece of gear these days, one can go nuts comparing specs, weight, material, and prices on trekking poles!

If they have a tendency to collapse then they are not useful, as J62 and StantonHyde have already noted. I have an old pair of Leki Makalu with the anti-shock feature, which I like a lot, but that's be a personal preference. I've learned to minimize / nearly eliminate the collapsing by keeping the screw threads near the expansion locks clean of dirt and dust. But admittedly they can collapse, which is a negative.

Those models are old. I need to buy some new ones and will get one that won't collapse. Leki does make some now, but I'll shop around.

Year ago, after major leg surgery, my wife had Cascade Design make a custom one-piece walking stick for her. It can't collapse and weighs only about 10 ounces. It won't fit in any suitcase for air travel, but it's a fantastic walking stick/staff, as opposed to a "trekking pole".

I use two poles if carrying a heavy pack or on unstable terrain, and just if one on a standard trail. Stanton, I also did the Paria trip a few years ago. That was fantastic, but definitely a two-pole outing!

Myer

Over the last 5-8 years I've had my knee scoped and a hip replacement. Now I can do anything I every would have had the nerve to do when I was younger.

For some reason getting in a bear's face bothers me less than the top of Angel's Landing.

You have to know the parks.

In Zion in most cases you're down and go up. So you have to be careful about the hikes there with knee issues as you go up first and then down. You may go up and then be sorry as you have to walk down backwards. Or sideways.

In Bryce Canyon you start at the top and go down. That's better for a knee issue as you know early on when to stop. The problem with Bryce is that it's a little above 8,000 ft. It's cooler than Zion but the air is a lot thinner. Also, in Bryce when you go down you then have to get back up. In elevation.

Zion could be quite hot in late May or early June.

You can see my photos of trips to this area at:
www.travelwalks.com

RVvagabond

If you are looking for cheap camping, there is free camping east of Zion, at Red Canyon near Bryce, at Capitol Reef and very cheap camping on BLM land in Moab along Colorado River and at Sand Flats. Moab also has a the Lazy Lizard hostel.

Springdale is not cheap.

These locations are listed in a travel book found at:
southutahparks.com

Dayle

Hi snurffel,

Two great side trips in the area:

Coral Pink Sand Dunes - state park
Best Friends Animal Sanctuary - Kanab

both are east and south of Zion a bit, and the Sand Dunes are on the way to Kanab. It takes about an hour to drive to Kanab, plus stop, hike, photo op time.

Call ahead and get the tour times for Best Friends. It's a wonderful, wonderful place.

I don't think camping at Red Canyon near Bryce is free anymore. The national forest campground there has been improved greatly in the last few years = fees, but not expenseive.

In Springdale I've stayed at Zion Park Inn, Pioneer Lodge, Novel House Inn (B&B), Desert Pearl, Canyon View B&B, The Zion Lodge (in park), and am trying the Cliff Rose Lodge in February. My favorites are the Desert Pearl (expensive and hard get in) and the Novel House.

You can definitely visit both Zion and Bryce in the time you have. Beginning of June can be over 100 degrees already, but the flowers will be blooming. Gorgeous!

Have fun!

clarkgriswold

Grand Staircase Inn near Bryce is fine, starts around $70