What's a reasonable tip?

Old Aug 12th, 2003, 02:17 PM
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What's a reasonable tip?

Hi, all!

I really need your help on this one!

What is a reasonable amount to tip in a restaurant? 10%? 15%? 20%? more/less?

My second question is: when, in the US (NOT overseas), is the tip AUTOMATICALLY added to the total?

My third question is: do you base the percentage on the meal total without tax? Or does your tip include the tax, thus, giving a bigger tip?

Just curious, as I have travelled and eaten all over the world and tipped based on certain "norms" - my own which I always thought was the pretty universal way of doing things

- but something happened recently - I had a US restaurant, without any kind of forewarning and after the meal had been consumed, automatically add in an amount and claim that I had to pay it! I always thought that the tip was MINE to give and not the restaurant's RIGHT to take out of my pocket! In over 40 years of eating and tipping at all kinds of restaurants, I've never had this kind of thing happen before, so would appreciate your guidance!
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Old Aug 12th, 2003, 02:21 PM
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The automatic adding-in of the tip is an increasing and unfortunate development in US restaurants. I first noticed it in places with Euro pretensions. Sometimes it's noted on the menu, so check carefully or ask in advance. When it's added in, it's non-negotiable. This makes no sense -- if they're going to add it in anyway, it should be right there in the prices. I usually tip 15-20 percent of the pre-tax amount, depending on how demanding I was and how attentive the server was, occasionally higher.
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Old Aug 12th, 2003, 02:25 PM
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Here in NYC we have it easy when it comes to calculating a tip. Our city tax is 8.25%. We just double the tax and there is your tip...16-1/2%.

I feel that the tip always relies on the service. Poor service...a lesser amount and vice cersa.
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Old Aug 12th, 2003, 02:26 PM
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The standard rate for gratuity (they say) is 15% in the US. If you have friends who are food servers, they will try to tell you that 15% is the base rate for barely adequate service, so 20% is a better tip for good service.

I tip in-between, although I must say I will tip 20% up to $50. Since most food servers are living off their tips (and many share their tip money with the busboys etc.), I think it's fair.

Cities where the vast majority of tourist trade is foreign (I'm thinking specifically of Miami Beach as an example) will automatically throw a 15% gratuity line item on their restaurant bills. Guests are invited to change the amount as desired. It is NOT a requirement that you pay this gratuity at all-- it's couched in "this is a suggestion and a convenience" terms. Oh, and many higher-end restaurants will add 15-17% gratuity to bills for parties of 8 or more, again as a suggestion and a convenience.

If the municipality you're in charges tax on food, you can use it to help calculate the tip (which should be computed on the base, i.e., food and drinks). Example: In LA County, the sales tax is 8.25%. Double the tax amount, that's 16.5% of the total bill, a pretty fair tip.
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Old Aug 12th, 2003, 02:36 PM
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It depends where you are some people just double the tax amount and give the tip that way. Always check your bill. In high tourist areas like NYC, South Beach Miami are good for adding a surcharge.Look at the bill closely . One of the old NYC waiter tricks was They use to put it on the back of the old style checks in the drink Section They would put SC and a price most people would not bother to check it or would think it was a code for the bartender like short hand. so it would be hidden in the price so they would get a double tip. always check if it is added in leave nothing additonal . I know of one restaurant that would not run your credit card until the tip was filled in or not so they don't get rejected after the tip is added .
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Old Aug 12th, 2003, 02:58 PM
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Well I always tip 20% of the pre-tax amount which ends up being a little over 15% of the total bill. I am just not good at math in the head so I take the total (before taxes an dmove the decimal point over one space giving a 10% amount and then just double that! The old double the tax amount only works in some states. You know there are states out there wher tax is only 5% so doubling the tax would NOT be enough inthat case and then there are states that have retaurant tax of 12.5% so if you doubled that it would be WAY too much (unless you had super duper service!) As for the automatically adding it in thing, I think this is pretty common whe your party is ove r acertain amount of people, this used to be 10 or 12 people. Lately I have see a lot of restaurants where they have an automatic tip added in for party of 6 or more persons. Thsi is almost always a standard 15% I don't think I have ever seen an automatic higher but I have tipped a little extra on occasion when the 15% was automatic!
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Old Aug 12th, 2003, 03:02 PM
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I have seen surcharges for seperate checks.
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Old Aug 12th, 2003, 03:31 PM
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I think you'll find that tipping 'norms' vary slightly depending on location. I live in LA and I generally tip 20% of the after tax total for what I consider good service. If the service is excellent and above and beyond what I would expect, I tip 25%. If the service is just OK, I tip 15%. I haven't encountered the automatic gratuity yet except in instances where your party is 8 or more. Then I think they generally add 15-18%. I would think that if the service was truly disappointing though, you could speak with management. I can't imagine that there's any right for them to charge a fixed percentage regardless of the service level.

So how much did they automatically add to the bill, how was the service, and did they indicate whether it could be adjusted up or down?
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Old Aug 12th, 2003, 03:37 PM
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I have worked in restaurants in Europe and the US. Personally I would never return to a restaurant which had an automatic tip added to the bill. This policy has nothing to do with the quality of service or the server, and I believe it leads to 'I don't give a damn' service.

I think that 15% is adequate for volentary tipping. Tip more if the server has worked their rear off for you and made you feel good.
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Old Aug 12th, 2003, 03:41 PM
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luv2fly, just so you know, NYC sales tax is now 8.625%
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Old Aug 12th, 2003, 03:46 PM
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My husband and I dined at a small local gourmet place (St. Pete Beach Florida) and they added 18% automatically (on the total including wine). Yes, there are lots of Europeans in the area, and it was noted on the bottom of the menu in fine print, but for some reason that really burned us. And we usually tip 20% or a little more. The food and the service was pretty good (we were the only ones in there) but we didn't add anything extra, and won't be going back - it feels like they took away my right to complement my server in the form of a tip.
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Old Aug 12th, 2003, 03:56 PM
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In San Francisco restaurants a tip is added to the bill for parties of 6 or more, sometimes 5 or more. It should be printed on the menu, or told while taking reservation. I don't agree that a tip is non-negotiable, I had it once removed completely when there was a problem with the food served.
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Old Aug 12th, 2003, 04:11 PM
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Thanks, all, for your careful and detailed responses! I'll just have to be more alert from now on and pretend that I'm in Europe

For those of you who asked, here's the whole situation:
I usually start with my "standard" of 15% of the total including the tax - and rounded up to the nearest dollar. The tip goes up from there depending on the service, the food, etc.

In restaurants which we frequent and where we get the extra welcome and where we know the food is good, my norm is 20% of the total including the tax.

I figure that by including the tax when calculating the tip, I am already "overtipping".

As to this particular restaurant, the service was terrible - I had to constantly go after the service people, even to get the initial drinks. The food was on the skimpy side and was average, but not great. The service people did not know who had ordered what, so there was general confusion when the plates arrived. The butter came AFTER all the first round of bread had been consumed and, since there had not been enough bread to go around, more bread had to be reordered - requested several times before the additional bread came.

In other words, I EXPECT the servicers to monitor the bread, butter, drinks situation. I expect the servicers to know who had ordered what.

We were a group of 24, so I was careful to check the menu to see what if any fixed rate there was. Nothing was listed. Since there was general confusion from the servicers, I forgot to ask about the tip, being more concerned about getting drinks, bread, etc.

When the check came, they had added - by hand - a tip of 20% on the total including tax!

Had they not done that, I would have been unhappy, but would have given them my standard 15% without saying anything. Needless to say, with the poor service, the skimpy portions, and the average food, no way was I going to pay 20%!

I discreetly went to the front, asked for the manager, and he insisted that this is what they do for all large parties over 8 people. He then pulled out a menu that was not the same as the one I had seen and which had the fixed percentage for large parties written in small letters on the bottom. When I saw this other menu I flipped. Politeness went out the door and I told him if he wanted me to pay for the meal he had better leave the amount of tip to me.

He did. They got 15%. End of story.

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Old Aug 12th, 2003, 04:17 PM
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Here It is 5% so we triple our tax.
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Old Aug 12th, 2003, 05:06 PM
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We tip 20% of the total bill.
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Old Aug 12th, 2003, 05:10 PM
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jason, i really like the way you handled this, especially for giving the 15% grautity. I think you showed your classiness by still tipping, yet insisting on your right to determine your own tip. As for a table of 24, I can imagine that easily being a mixup for the staff. By the way, you must have had a reservation...perhaps they informed the "host" of this policy and you weren't told for this reason?
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Old Aug 12th, 2003, 05:25 PM
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I plan on tipping 15% (before taxes). If the service is lacking. I may drop it to 10%. If the service is excellent, I move up to 20%. If the service is extraordinary, I'm a whopping over-tipper (because I appreciate the service, that extraordinary service is quite unusual, and figure I'm helping to make up for the "stiffs".

If the service is truly dismal, instead of a tip, I leave a note specifying exactly why I left no gratuity.
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Old Aug 12th, 2003, 05:37 PM
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Having done my time slinging hash I am not unsympathetic to the plight of restaurant servers. Yes, they DO rely on tips, as restaurant owners can skirt even minimum wage laws. When service is good but not great - sort of the mimimum level expected - I leave 15% of pretax. If it is just drinks, then 10% is the norm. If service is wanting, I ratchet down a bit, usually not less than 10% but have been known on very rare (maybe twice ever) occasion to leave a clearly insulting amount. If service is better than OK I go up, sometimes quite a bit.
So what constitutes good service? A friendly but not overly familiar greeting, knowledge of the menu and wine list, prompt an unobtrusive attention to empty water glasses/ butter dishes/bread baskets etc. Knowing enough about how the kitchen is running to time orders for the various courses so we get food at the appropriate temperature is key, but I can't hold a server responsible for badly cooked food (that's the chef's fault.) Add not bothering me with endless "how is everything" queries after I've said it's OK, promptly fixing anything I didn't find OK, and - my biggest bugaboo! - waiting to clear until all at the table have finished the course. When they whisk away a plate as soon as one person appears to be finished I want to ask "Are you running out of dishes in tthe kitchen?" So call me a curmudgeon!
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Old Aug 12th, 2003, 05:39 PM
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Here in Naples, Florida we are surrounded with many foreign (mostly European) tourists and many of the restaurant workers are ready to give up. Despite efforts like including a print out about "tipping customs" in the US, many customers still would leave only change or a dollar for bills of up to several hundred dollars in nice restuarants. Some restaurants have taken to adding a tip, others still try not to. And some have actually authorized the servers to add in a 15% tip so long as they tell the customers it is a suggestion (and yes, most do then pay it). I can't understand why so many Europeans would travel to the US without finding out more about tipping customs. I can't imagine my going to a foreign country without checking out their customs.
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Old Aug 12th, 2003, 05:54 PM
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Patrick and others, I'm an Australian who has visited the US a few times and I'm looking forward to coming back again next month. There are many many things I love about America but tipping isn't one of them. I hate the way that everyone you come into contact with has their hand out, from waiters to cabbies to red caps at the airports. It wears very thin very quickly.

Just because it's a custom to tip everyone in the US doesn't mean every tourist is going to do it, especially if it goes against what comes naturally in their own homeland. We tip in Australia but it's not expected and it's generally only done in response to superior service.

To be honest, sometimes I feel as though I'm expected to pay these people's wages and I don't like that. Why should I? I didn't hire them. I'll pay their employer and their employer can pay them. If employers don't pay enough, either don't work for them (I know, I know, someone always will) or get organised - there is a power in the union you know. The proliferation and increasing expectations in regards to tipping represent a totally stuffed economic model, in my view. I've occasionally declined to tip people in the US when I wasn't happy with their service and the "you're taking food out of my mouth" look I've received really makes me angry. I feel like saying to them "I'm not taking the food, your lousy employer is!"

I'm happy to pay for good service but I resent the expectation that I always have to pay extra for any kind of service.

There. That's off my chest. Now I can get back to planning my holiday.
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