Vermillion National Monument- AZ
Nov 12th, 2014, 01:19 PM
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Vermillion National Monument- AZ
Hi,
As I was researching about the Vermillion National Monument online, I noticed most people mentioned that they hired a private tour. Most tour companies are charging around $200 per person for a tour to the North Coyote Butts or White Pockets. Does any of you have experience at this park? Is a tour guide necessary?
Thank you!
As I was researching about the Vermillion National Monument online, I noticed most people mentioned that they hired a private tour. Most tour companies are charging around $200 per person for a tour to the North Coyote Butts or White Pockets. Does any of you have experience at this park? Is a tour guide necessary?
Thank you!
Nov 12th, 2014, 02:15 PM
#2
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I've never been there BUT it would appear this place isn't for the casual visitor.
http://www.blm.gov/az/st/en/prog/blm...vermilion.html
Note the following:
There are no paved roads within the Monument. While the House Rock Valley Road/BLM 1065 is a maintained dirt road it may be impassable when wet. Other roads on the Monument require a four-wheel drive-high clearance vehicle due to deep sand.
Visits to the area require special planning and awareness of potential hazards such as rugged and unmarked roads, poisonous reptiles and insects, extreme heat or cold, deep sand, and flash floods. Bring a spare tire and plenty of water, food, and gasoline.
A permit is required for hiking in Coyote Buttes North (the Wave), Coyote Buttes South, and for overnight trips within Paria Canyon.
It would appear that this is an excellent place for wilderness desert backpacking -- an activity that REQUIRES a LOT of experience and preparation. If you've not done wilderness backpacking or even desert backpacking, then this is NOT the place to find out you're not ready for it.
http://www.blm.gov/az/st/en/prog/blm...vermilion.html
Note the following:
There are no paved roads within the Monument. While the House Rock Valley Road/BLM 1065 is a maintained dirt road it may be impassable when wet. Other roads on the Monument require a four-wheel drive-high clearance vehicle due to deep sand.
Visits to the area require special planning and awareness of potential hazards such as rugged and unmarked roads, poisonous reptiles and insects, extreme heat or cold, deep sand, and flash floods. Bring a spare tire and plenty of water, food, and gasoline.
A permit is required for hiking in Coyote Buttes North (the Wave), Coyote Buttes South, and for overnight trips within Paria Canyon.
It would appear that this is an excellent place for wilderness desert backpacking -- an activity that REQUIRES a LOT of experience and preparation. If you've not done wilderness backpacking or even desert backpacking, then this is NOT the place to find out you're not ready for it.
Nov 12th, 2014, 02:27 PM
#3
The Vermillion Cliffs are pretty amazing. I have backpacked the Paria Canyon and it was a superb trip. As PaulRabe noted, it is not a beginner trip.
That said you could easily visit the area around Lees Ferry on your own. There are several excellent nearby day hikes, including visiting the old cabins at the Lonely Dell Ranch.
That said you could easily visit the area around Lees Ferry on your own. There are several excellent nearby day hikes, including visiting the old cabins at the Lonely Dell Ranch.
Nov 12th, 2014, 02:35 PM
#4
Ooops, hit "Submit" to soon...
Here's the Lonely Dell ranch:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee%27s...ely_Dell_Ranch
The hike into Paria Canyon from the south is easy for quite a few miles and would make a nice day outing (but not in the heat of summer!).
Getting a permit to visit The Wave is difficult. We tried when we got the Paria Canyon permit, but were not successful.
There are a some lodges that you could use as a base for a few days. Look into Lees Ferry Lodge, Cliff Dweller Lodge and Marble Canyon Lodge if my memory serves me well.
In any case, this whole area is stunning, worth some time, and there are a number of things you can do without a guide.
Here's the Lonely Dell ranch:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee%27s...ely_Dell_Ranch
The hike into Paria Canyon from the south is easy for quite a few miles and would make a nice day outing (but not in the heat of summer!).
Getting a permit to visit The Wave is difficult. We tried when we got the Paria Canyon permit, but were not successful.
There are a some lodges that you could use as a base for a few days. Look into Lees Ferry Lodge, Cliff Dweller Lodge and Marble Canyon Lodge if my memory serves me well.
In any case, this whole area is stunning, worth some time, and there are a number of things you can do without a guide.
Nov 12th, 2014, 04:27 PM
#6
I understand that you need a good 4wd to visit White Pocket which often has fairly deep sand. And the time of year is important.
I stayed at Cliff Dwellers and they recently posted a picture of a visit to White Pocket on their Facebook page. They may be too costly for a guided trip but perhaps you can contact them for info. And definitely worth stopping there for a meal or two or three...
https://www.facebook.com/cliffdwellerslodge/infomation
I stayed at Cliff Dwellers and they recently posted a picture of a visit to White Pocket on their Facebook page. They may be too costly for a guided trip but perhaps you can contact them for info. And definitely worth stopping there for a meal or two or three...
https://www.facebook.com/cliffdwellerslodge/infomation
Nov 12th, 2014, 04:30 PM
#7
Assuming you haven't found this website, re driving conditions when going to the Wave
http://www.blm.gov/az/st/en/arolrsma...s/driving.html
http://www.blm.gov/az/st/en/arolrsma...s/driving.html
Nov 12th, 2014, 07:36 PM
#9
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Was there in Sept
All comments above are valid - no you don't need a guide. I doubt they have special access to permits. That is, you get the permit and they guide
1. Coyote Buttes The Wave 1 and Wave 2. 20 permits per day. 10 by Internet and 10 by lottery at their BLM office in Kanab. Each day when I was there, there were over 100 people hoping to get a permit from china to Switzerland. A person from S. Korea holds the record. 11 times and never got picked.
Approximately 48,000 applied for on-line permits in 2014.
Wave hiking permits. Phone (435) 644-1300.
http://www.blm.gov/az/st/en/arolrsma...te_buttes.html
or
http://www.wilderness.net/nwps/legisact
Above web site allows you to check permit availability, and apply for and purchase a permit for hiking in Coyote Buttes, part of the Paria Canyon/Vermilion Cliffs Wilderness.
2. White Pocket - as noted above, you need 4 wheel drive due too sand BLM office has very good maps - no guide needed with those maps.
A 4-wheel vehicle can be rented from XPRESS Rent-A-Car located at 1530 S. Highway 89A (435) 644-3408. www.expressrentalcarofkanab.com
Guide Services – Dreamland – www.dreamlandtours.net Phone: (435) 644-5506;
3. Paria Canyon hike - have not hiked this, but have friend who have. Expect walking in water. One of the better hikes in area.
4. While waiting for permit drawing in Kanab, there are several hikes originating from Kanab. For example Peek A Boo (also via 4 wheel)
5.On top of Vermillion cliffs are abandoned ranches that are interesting. Also Indian ruins - very soft/deep sand.
6. If you are a serious hiker, don't ignore Buckskin slot canyon - a very REAL slot.
Vaga
All comments above are valid - no you don't need a guide. I doubt they have special access to permits. That is, you get the permit and they guide
1. Coyote Buttes The Wave 1 and Wave 2. 20 permits per day. 10 by Internet and 10 by lottery at their BLM office in Kanab. Each day when I was there, there were over 100 people hoping to get a permit from china to Switzerland. A person from S. Korea holds the record. 11 times and never got picked.
Approximately 48,000 applied for on-line permits in 2014.
Wave hiking permits. Phone (435) 644-1300.
http://www.blm.gov/az/st/en/arolrsma...te_buttes.html
or
http://www.wilderness.net/nwps/legisact
Above web site allows you to check permit availability, and apply for and purchase a permit for hiking in Coyote Buttes, part of the Paria Canyon/Vermilion Cliffs Wilderness.
2. White Pocket - as noted above, you need 4 wheel drive due too sand BLM office has very good maps - no guide needed with those maps.
A 4-wheel vehicle can be rented from XPRESS Rent-A-Car located at 1530 S. Highway 89A (435) 644-3408. www.expressrentalcarofkanab.com
Guide Services – Dreamland – www.dreamlandtours.net Phone: (435) 644-5506;
3. Paria Canyon hike - have not hiked this, but have friend who have. Expect walking in water. One of the better hikes in area.
4. While waiting for permit drawing in Kanab, there are several hikes originating from Kanab. For example Peek A Boo (also via 4 wheel)
5.On top of Vermillion cliffs are abandoned ranches that are interesting. Also Indian ruins - very soft/deep sand.
6. If you are a serious hiker, don't ignore Buckskin slot canyon - a very REAL slot.
Vaga
Nov 13th, 2014, 04:48 AM
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"A 4-wheel vehicle can be rented from XPRESS Rent-A-Car located at 1530 S. Highway 8 . . . "
The fact that you can rent a 4 wheel drive doesn't mean you know how to drive it on sand. Everything folks say about experience when talking about hiking applies doubly when it comes to driving in sand.
The fact that you can rent a 4 wheel drive doesn't mean you know how to drive it on sand. Everything folks say about experience when talking about hiking applies doubly when it comes to driving in sand.
Nov 13th, 2014, 06:19 AM
#11
Lets say we were lucky and got a permit to the Wave while we are there (wish), do you think we can go there on our own?
Don't know the answer to that since we just did the 4-night Paria Canyon backpack and some other day hikes in the area.
Which brings up the point: while getting a Wave permit would be fantastic, the trip doesn't hinge on that. Here's the page from Lees Ferry / Cliff Dweller's Lodge. We stayed there but they have a fancy new website since 2009.
http://leesferry.com/nearby-attractions/
Under hiking they list several options including Lower Paria Canyon/Lonely Dell, which I mentioned above, and Spencer Trail, which we hiked the day before taking the shuttle to the north end of Paria Canyon.
Of Spencer they say "The view from the top is spectacular (absolutely jaw-dropping, guaranteed) and offers quiet and solitude not found anywhere else."
Don't know the answer to that since we just did the 4-night Paria Canyon backpack and some other day hikes in the area.
Which brings up the point: while getting a Wave permit would be fantastic, the trip doesn't hinge on that. Here's the page from Lees Ferry / Cliff Dweller's Lodge. We stayed there but they have a fancy new website since 2009.
http://leesferry.com/nearby-attractions/
Under hiking they list several options including Lower Paria Canyon/Lonely Dell, which I mentioned above, and Spencer Trail, which we hiked the day before taking the shuttle to the north end of Paria Canyon.
Of Spencer they say "The view from the top is spectacular (absolutely jaw-dropping, guaranteed) and offers quiet and solitude not found anywhere else."
Nov 13th, 2014, 06:24 AM
#12
Of Lower Paria they say "Magnificent sandstone walls streaked with desert varnish rise nearly a thousand feet on either side. ... The trail is easy to follow and allows the hiker to enjoy the scenery. ... with binoculars and you might spot bighorn sheep. There is also the possibility of seeing one of the giant California condors... There is an interesting cemetery along the trail where many of Arizona’s first pioneers are buried. This is an easy hike and offers its visitors a glimpse into the labyrinth of Arizona’s canyon country."
The are also Ancient pictographs to be found along the way.
Point being it is very spectacular country and getting to the Wave does not make or break the trip. Lots to ses around here.
Good luck and have fun.
The are also Ancient pictographs to be found along the way.
Point being it is very spectacular country and getting to the Wave does not make or break the trip. Lots to ses around here.
Good luck and have fun.
Nov 13th, 2014, 09:41 AM
#14
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Thank you to all for great suggestions! I have very good sense of directions so I am hoping to get walk in permit to the Wave. I will also check out the other areas some of you mentioned. Appreciated all the comments!
Nov 13th, 2014, 02:25 PM
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Don't be unrealistic about getting a permit.
your chances are 1:10 or probably 1:11.
If a holiday, then expect 1:15.
Consequently, make alternate tour plans while waiting for next day's lottery. There are many motels in town and 2 of 3 campgrounds should be open.
1. Hitch-N-Post is on highway 89 near junction of highway 89/89A. They have cabins. Open all year.
Phone: (435) 644-2142. www.hitchnpostrvpark.com
2. Crazy Horse campground is about 1/3 mile east on highway 89 and within walking distance to Vermillion Cliff’s visitor center where Wave permits are issued. They are open all year. Their spaces are larger than above. Phone: (435) 644-2782 www.crazyhorservpark.com
While North Rim concession are closed, the 'snow gate' may be open where you may be able to drive in/close for tours.
IF you go to Lee's Ferry (and camp), hike Spencer Trail. Once a mule trail to bring coal down into the valley. Trailhead is along the historic trail along the river upstream. Strenuous -1,500 vertical elevation. I'll make it easy: N36 51.965 W111 34.795. Suggest going down the same way. There is another route down further west at N36 52.889 W111 35.234 - steep loose gravel/rock/xxx, but very tricky once at the bottom where to go. I have the GPS locations, but....
Earlier I proposed Kanab Peek A Boo hike or drive toPink Sand Dunes. If you have a 4 WD, ask at the visitor center for their pictograph panel location. This is a rare display of 'faces'. The only other location these are located (to my knowledge) is at Needles District
Another recommended hike for petro/picto graphs is Snake Gulch: Here is one site - google for others. It is an easy hike unless you continue to the Colorado River.
http://www.toddshikingguide.com/Hike...ab/Kaibab1.htm
Of course, Zion is very close
If road is open, drive to Toroweap which is a western branch of GC. Excellent photographs.
http://www.amwest-travel.com/awt_gra..._toroweap.html
High clearance vehicle required. From Fredonia, about 70 miles one way.
Animal lovers - Don't miss this - Best Friends Sanctuary north of Kanab. Free animal tours and one to ancient Indian ruin in an alcove plus Hidden Lake (its hidden)
http://bestfriends.org/ Scroll down to VISITING
Vaga
your chances are 1:10 or probably 1:11.
If a holiday, then expect 1:15.
Consequently, make alternate tour plans while waiting for next day's lottery. There are many motels in town and 2 of 3 campgrounds should be open.
1. Hitch-N-Post is on highway 89 near junction of highway 89/89A. They have cabins. Open all year.
Phone: (435) 644-2142. www.hitchnpostrvpark.com
2. Crazy Horse campground is about 1/3 mile east on highway 89 and within walking distance to Vermillion Cliff’s visitor center where Wave permits are issued. They are open all year. Their spaces are larger than above. Phone: (435) 644-2782 www.crazyhorservpark.com
While North Rim concession are closed, the 'snow gate' may be open where you may be able to drive in/close for tours.
IF you go to Lee's Ferry (and camp), hike Spencer Trail. Once a mule trail to bring coal down into the valley. Trailhead is along the historic trail along the river upstream. Strenuous -1,500 vertical elevation. I'll make it easy: N36 51.965 W111 34.795. Suggest going down the same way. There is another route down further west at N36 52.889 W111 35.234 - steep loose gravel/rock/xxx, but very tricky once at the bottom where to go. I have the GPS locations, but....
Earlier I proposed Kanab Peek A Boo hike or drive toPink Sand Dunes. If you have a 4 WD, ask at the visitor center for their pictograph panel location. This is a rare display of 'faces'. The only other location these are located (to my knowledge) is at Needles District
Another recommended hike for petro/picto graphs is Snake Gulch: Here is one site - google for others. It is an easy hike unless you continue to the Colorado River.
http://www.toddshikingguide.com/Hike...ab/Kaibab1.htm
Of course, Zion is very close
If road is open, drive to Toroweap which is a western branch of GC. Excellent photographs.
http://www.amwest-travel.com/awt_gra..._toroweap.html
High clearance vehicle required. From Fredonia, about 70 miles one way.
Animal lovers - Don't miss this - Best Friends Sanctuary north of Kanab. Free animal tours and one to ancient Indian ruin in an alcove plus Hidden Lake (its hidden)
http://bestfriends.org/ Scroll down to VISITING
Vaga
