UT/AZ, May, 2010 - Guidance Requested

I am thinking that Rocky Mountain NP might be under snow in May. And I am not familiar with Route 128, so I don't know if it's worth the extra driving to start in Denver.

You might consider flying into Salt Lake City instead. Skipping Colorado and adding the time to Moab, Zion, and/or Bryce.

I suggest skipping the overnight in Kingman and Williams and driving straight to the Grand Canyon from LV--it's only a 4.5 to 5-hour drive, , so you'll get ther in mid-afternoon. More time at the Grand Canyon is good, especially if you want to walk down into the canyon a bit.

You also might check car rental fees (and drop fees) before you buy your airline tickets and commit to a plan. You might save a LOT on car rental by starting and ending at Las Vegas. The parks you describe (except for Colorado) can be done as a loop from there without adding much mileage overall.

The sooner you book your accommodatons at the Grand Canyon, the better. Stay inside the park, preferably at one of the four lodges right along the rim (El Tovar, Kachina, Thunderbird, and Bright Angel, from high to low in price).

Book at www.grandcanyonlodges.com

D Dawg,

I'm one of those who recommend spending DAYS, not hours in our Natl Parks, so my recommendation would be to cut your destinations in half for this trip.

I agree with enzian. May is not the best time to visit RMNP, but it's the perfect time for the other places. Still you are rushing WAY too much!

If you stick with the above plan, no need to worry about hikes. You won't have time, honestly.

I agree, spend a little more time at most of the places. You are basically doing a lot of driving. Some of the very favorite hikes are to the places you are going.

There are flights into Grand Junction and Moaalthough, not a bargain). I see you don't have anything listed at the places you would like to see or do. I'm not sure just how much hiking you want to do.

Moab Must Do's-
Hike to Delicate Arch-moderate(uphill, all down on return)
Devils Garden- 3.5 hours, but fairly easy
Balanced Rock- right on the road
Double Arch- .25 mile from road
Windows section-.25 mile from road
You could do a 4 wheel drive tour(some of them are scary)
My all time favorite thing to do is with www.deserthighlights.com(canyoneering)
There is really not that much physical excursion to this
Canyonlands-maybe take small plane flight over it
Don't miss Deadhorse Point

Goblin Valley is a Must Do
5 miles from the Goblins is a slot Canyon Little Wildhorse Canyon(not wildhorse but Little Wildhorse) Do not miss either of these places. This will require a full day to do both of these. There is nothing to eat there, not even a vending machine as the park operates on solar power. Take food and drinks.

Capitol Reef
Hikes here a little tougher
Might want to hike to Hickman Bridge- but you will have already seen much better arches in Moab
Do pick some fruit and see the Orchard.
Do have some pie and ice cream in Gifford House, located in the orchard.

Eat @ Hell's Backbone Grill in route to Bryce
Maybe Calf Creek Falls on the way to Bryce

Bryce- hike Navajo Loop/Queens Garden
Stay in Bryce Lodge

Zion- rent shoes and maybe pants and hike "The Narrows"
The Narrows are not to be missed!!
Stay in Zion Lodge
have a picnic lunch in front of the lodge with the tons of other people along with possibly wild turkeys
I love Angels Landing, but it is somewhat tougher hike

Do you plan on seeing the Grand Canyon from the North Rim or South Rim? North Rim normally opens May 15th.

Capitol Reef
http://www.photoworks.com/slideshow/album/AA782A321D7B?source=pw980

Zion
http://www.photoworks.com/slideshow/album/A587213192E1?source=pw980

Arches/Moab
http://www.photoworks.com/slideshow/album/A0A579218D66?source=pw980

4 corner/Mesa Verde/Monument Valley/Durango
http://www.photoworks.com/slideshow/album/A795F4318D54?source=pw980


I have done a lot of different things in a lot of the national parks. Canyoneering in Arches is truly spectacular. It really is safer than climbing on a ladder and the rewards are just marvelous. My daughter age 12 and severe scoliocis managed it just fine. We have since done another private trip with them in Oregon. In my opinion, this is even better than rafting the Grand Canyon and cost less than $100 per person.

I included my 4 corners pictures in case you decide to include any of that area on your trip.

how did i get that wierd smiley in there??

Goblin Valley and Lil Wildhorse pics are in Cap Reef link

OK, so you two said very well what I should have said. Too many parks, too little time! Slow it down and enjoy. These two (Dayle and spirobulldog) know the whole area very well---much better than I do. I could easily spend 2 weeks between Zion and the Grand Canyon, and another week at Moab. All these places you want to see are worth much more than a drive-by.

>>how did i get that wierd smiley in there??<<

You left out the space between the b and the ( you wanted to put in, like so:

Lee Ann

noting the great info here.....

You are making the same mistake we and other northeasterners do at beginning of planning stages to western US. Since we can drive thru 5 states in a day, it seems difficult to grasp how far apart things are and how little there is between Point A and Point B - and how much time one should spend at each thing. Don't get sucked into the thinking "we have come this far so we really must see..." - all it will give you is opportunity to add to your 30 states/30 countries statement in first line of your post but it will not give you a good vacation experience. In addition to hiking, some of these places beg you to just "be" rather than race thru to complete a checklist of been-theres.

I do a lot of planning and I would never do a trip like this.

Just to give you an idea of how I plan, before I go in a trip I can close my eyes and visualize how most days will go.

I would never go on a trip that each lodging every night. I.m not opposed to some one nighters but not night after night. All you'll be doing is packing, driving and unpacking (if you even bother).

Some of the suggestions above are probably a bit too strenuous for your wife but in general heed their advice.

Everything is far apart and it takes time to go between them.

We spent 4 days in Moab and it was just right for me. Arches NP is amazing. The Delicate Arch hike is a bit strenuous but if you do it a couple of days after going into altitude and stop for rests (which you can do), you should do fine.

Also, try to get on the Fiery Furnace, ranger-led hike. Nothing difficult there and they stop often enough.

Windows, Turret Arch and Double Arch are all together and nothing far from the car or steep to walk. Just spectacular sights.

Personally, I thought Canyonlands, Island in the Sky was worth a few hours but none of the hikes other than the short Mesa Arch walk interested me. Some of the viewpoints were quite interesting.

Now Dead Horse Point State Park had some very good scenery/sights.

Goblin Valley was definitely worth a couple of hours and fun.

Capitol Reef is not one of my favorite places. Especially after being to Arches.

In Bryce I would definitely get up early for sunrise at Bryce Point and hike Navajo Loop - Queens Garden loop. More amazing scenery.

In Zion You have the Riverside Walk (nice and easy with absolutely great scenery) and the Narrows at the end of it. Walking in cold water isn't for everybody so research the Narrows hike before doing it.

You may want to consider one or more of the Emerald Pools hikes or the Canyon Overlook at the Easy Entrance.

I don't know of anybody who gets more done on a trip than I do but I wouldn't do what you've outlined unless you just want to check them off your list.

I agree with most of what folks are telling you, but if you are planning this trip as one to check things out and find what would be nice to come back to again for an extended visit, then with some modifications, you could do the kind of loop you are interested in. We've done loops starting in Denver, Albuquerque, Phoenix and Vegas. Usually price and what we really, really want to see this time determine which airport we go into. There will probably be snow in RMNP in May and Trail ridge road may or may not be open and that would make me want to put that part of the trip off for late September to see the aspens in color. You could still use Denver and would still get a nice look at the Rockies going through Colorado to Mesa Verde (only Cliff Palace and Spruce Tree house will be open for cliff dwellings) and over to Canyonlands and Arches. Then do as many of the other places as you want and leave through Phoenix or Vegas to cut down on car time. There are large drop off costs if you leave from a different city than you rented the car in. The alternative would be to do a loop from one of the above cities and/or do fewer parks, saving RMNP for later. Do go to www.nps.gov to get an idea of what each has to offer and do get a park pass at your first park. They are good for a year and let your car full into all the parks for a year.

If AZ/Utah are your focus then Phoenix or Vegas make the most sense, but I've done a loop from Albuquerque that included Mesa Verde, Arches, Canyonlands, Grand Canyon and Bandelier. That was a lot of driving but you cover a lot of ground at 70 mph and the scenery on the drive is part of the fun.

Have a fantastic trip.

Waking up and rereading this morning, it may seem as if we sound harsh. This is not what any of us intended. The posters here just want you to get the most out of your visit. Utah just has so much to offer. For example, to really see Canyonlands alone would require 4 days to see each section. It is that big and that different in each area. Yes, some of the hiking does require a little effort, but really it isn't that tough. You are going at a great time. I would suggest doing an early hike each morning and then each evening. Do an easy activity mid-day. There is a lot more to do than just hiking. Moab is the King of off-roading and bicycle riding. You will find a few good places to eat along the way as well. We normally eat breakfast or lunch while we are hiking. There is nothing like sitting down for lunch in front of a waterfall, arch, hoodoos, overlook point, and relaxing with some snacks and a drink. One thing none of us has mentioned. You must must take plenty of water on every single hike. You will be suprised how much you drink in a hour or two of hiking. I would certainly try to get "in park" lodging in Bryce, Zion, Grand Canyon.

You will want to get your lodging reservations ASAP!!
I would stay a minimum of two nights in Bryce and Zion. I would stay 3-5 nights in Moab.
Probably two nights in Capitol Reef-this would be one day for Goblin Valley and Little Wildhorse(super easy slot canyon) and then a day for Cap Reef.

Escalante is an entire other world that is between Bryce and Cap Reef. I don't think we have even touched on that area really. This is considered the best drive in high desert in the US, according to most books anyway.

If you happen to be in Bryce on a full moon night, do a ranger-led hike. The rangers offer some sort of astronomy program every night. Be sure and see the stars while in Capitol Reef or Bryce. Get 10 or 20 miles away from any lights and you won't believe what you are seeing. We laid in Goblin Valley on the ground well after an hours worth of dark, just looking at the stars.

It clear the consensus recommendation is to see more of fewer places.

Last year I did a Phoenix, Sedona, GC, Mojave, Sequoia, Kings Canyon, and Yosemite, with a northern loop over the Sierra Nevadas before finishing off with Death Valley and Vegas and that whole trip went reasonably well (especially considering I took my 80 year old mother who had never been out west).

The AZ and LV part of the 2010 trip was really for Jean as I've been to those places and lived in Phoenix for a year long ago. Perhaps the answer is to skip AZ (skip GC?) & LV and spend all the time in Utah - especially if RMNP is still under snow - we see enough of that here.

Well, something has to give. I will read all the comments in detail this weekend and revert with questions. Thanks so much - your insights are appreciated - thanks again!

Best -

D.

D Dawg,

I'm so glad you are willing to reconsider and listen to the above posters' sincere advice! All above have visited Utah often, and I live here. So you are getting comments from those who plan and come as visitors as well as a "local" who goes to these parks every year and still hasn't made it to everywhere!

Regardless of how much time you spend and where you spend it, you'll want to come back and see/do more. Have fun planning!

To say RMNP will be under snow is a bit misleading and implies it's covered in snow and you can't do anything. I've been there in late April and was able to hike at lower elevations, been there early June and most trails were open even at the higher elevations. Trail Ridge Road usually doesn't open until Memorial Day weekend and that is probably what is meant by being under snow but the entire park will not be snowbound.

Having said that, I would skip RMNP entirely and fly into Las Vegas. Spending an overnight in Estes Park and 6-8 hours in RMNP isn't worth the extra driving time and cost you'd incur by flying into Denver. Driving over Trail Ridge Road to Grand Lake is one of the major highlights and it's unlikely you'd be able to do that unless you're going really late in May, and even then there's no guarantee.

Doing a loop beginning and ending in Las Vegas seems the most logical given all of the places you want to visit. You can easily slip in a trip to the GC south rim and a few of the smaller parks/monuments along the way, then head into Utah to get into that portion of your itinerary.

My thoughts align with WhereAreWe. I'd fly in and out of Las Vegas. It's usually less expensive, and then you are only 2+ hours from Springdale, the entrance to Zion. Check your map and the areas you'd like to visit and then organize your trip. It is really a neat drive from Bryce to Capital Reef if you go through Escalante, and Escalante is a fascinating area in itself. We took a guided slot canyon hike there a few years ago that was a real highlight. Archaeologists are still discovering ancient fossils and dinosaur bones there!