california12

Hi,
I am a single mom and will travel to California with my two daughters age 9 and 11
We are flying to/from L.A. because I found a very cheap ticket
Now, after visiting many websites, read many guides, talked to too many people, I really do not know anymore what to do and see.
I don't know how or why I am attracted to soooo many things:
- L.A. itself (well, at least the studios!)
- San Francisco
- the national parks: zion/bryce/arches/grand canyon/monument valley and of course Yosemite
- the San Francisco-L.A. route....
Let me add that I do not like to travel by car too long.
So, I've been exploring the possibility of a family oriented bus tour like Grand American Adventure or Green Tortoise Bus...
But suddenly not sure, is this holiday becoming just too full of stuff for anyone to enjoy really? The girls were excited about the idea of sleeping on the bus and in tents, and being around other kids...
Anyone has words of advice for me?
TIA!!!

DebitNM

How many days will you be vacationing? You have a lot on your list and many places are very far apart. I gather you are coming from a distance (out of the country?) and want to see a lot but you need to take a map out and see where all these sites are located. Do you plan on renting a car? Are you comfortable driving on unfamiliar roads that may be interstates?

What is your budget? You mention sleeping in a tent - where do plan on getting tent, pads, sleeping bags etc?

You need to really do a bit of realistic planning, deciding what things you and your kids really want to see and do.

gail

The most important thing you said is "the girls were excited about..." - notice that they are not excited about checking off the most attractions seen in the least time on some imaginary list. They want to spend time together, with you, seeing a few new things - but mostly about taking a break from the familiar. This holiday IS becoming to full fo stuff for anyone to enjoy. You are all young enough to go back and see other things next trip.

So ask them and yourself - do you want city or rural; historic or scenery; stay in one place a while or move around each night; how long can you realistically spend in a car - your driving tolerance and their boredom level.

Then get some maps. Might be worth getting a AAA membership if you do not have one - you will likely get enough discounts on hotels to pay for the cost. And you will get maps and travel books for free. (Also buy or borrow a GPS for the trip if you do not have one - it allows you to explore off the regular route with no worry about finding yourway out).

Now combine what type of trip you want with where. Unless you are spending weeks and weeks, LA, SF and the National Parks is too much. If trying to stick to a budget, you will find LA and SF more expensive per day for lodging, food and activities than National Parks.

Start there - and then check back with some of the questions andswered and I am sure you will receive several trip plans from posters here.

lincasanova

I think the family bus tour sounds like a lot of fun for part of your holiday! It would help entertain the kids plus take the long driving away from you. California is larger/longer than many think. Getting to some of the parks also takes longer than you think. ( Yosemite).

I'm sure you will have a memorable trip, whatever you do.

emalloy

If you don't want to drive, there are some tour groups that leave from LA and do the national parks. For me they would never work as we don't mind driving and prefer to set our own pace, but for starters look at www.gadventures.com/trips/north-america/ or the Backroads company to get an idea of costs and what is included. Do factor in the cost of a rental car, gas, and lodging for your family as well as the stress of driving when you look at the total costs.

Have a fantastic trip.

california12

Thanks everyone! The trip is going to be 3 weeks, so there is a lot of time.
Right now the itinerary looks like this:
- 3 days Los Angeles
- train to San Francisco
- 3 days San Francisco
- 8 days bus adventure zion/bryce/arches/monument valley/grand canyon/vegas - note that most of the long distance drive will happen while we sleep on the green tortoise bus
- 4 days Yosemite
- 2 days somewhere on the beach close to LA to rest
What I like about the bus trip is that we will be together with other group participants to travel and to eat, camp close by, but then during the day we can be doing our thing (or do nothing) as a family when we actually are at the parks
Clearly that does not give me much flexibility in terms of which parks to see.
What do you think I should cut out?
The Green Tortoise bus sounds fun and they would be disappointed if we did not go. However, we could also take a shorter trip with them like 3 days to Yosemite with the Tortoise Bus and drop out completely the Canyons or do perhaps on our own the Grand Canyon only.
To Gail: What is AAA membership?
To Emalloy: I checked the website you suggested and will compare them to Green Tortoise
To DebitNM: The camping equipment is a real issue. I talked to Green Tortoise about it and they said I should consider buying it online and have it shipped at their company. Anyone has suggestions of how to go about this?
Thanks, it helps sounding out ideas with others!

tomfuller

Are you and daughters US residents/citizens?
AAA is the American Automobile Association. aaa.com
With AAA membership you can get 10% off on your train travel on Amtrak amtrak.com Do you really want to set up and take down a tent night after night even if it rains and gets it wet?
I take it that you don't want to or can't rent a car in CA.
Eight days without a hot shower might turn your girls off from camping for a lifetime.

DebitNM

Camping equipment is very costly, especially for 3 people and for such a short time. Don't know if you can rent any of it, but you need: tent, sleeping bags, chairs, camp stove, canteens, dishes, cookware, utensils and that is just off the top of my head.

emalloy

If your girls are willing, go for it. Talk to your friends/neighbors about borrowing the basics for the tenting portion of the trip or consider going to a big box type store and getting an inexpensive setup.

Let us know what you do and write a trip report to give an idea of how it went.

california12

to Tomfuller: 1) No, we're not US citizens, we're from Italy!
2) I hope that the driver and fellow passengers will help with the tents set up, at least initially... you think it is likely it will rain a lot in July?
3) Of course we will have hot showers in the campsites

to DebitNM: we will not need chairs, camp stove, canteens, dishes, cookware, utensils because we will eat as a group and the organizers will set it out, although everyone should help out preparing meals are prepared by the http://www.greentortoise.com/

emalloy: yes, my plan is to buy an inexpensive tent and foam mattress and then take our sleeping bags with us from here

don't know perhaps I am crazy, but the bus thing looks like it could be fun...

jcb

"the girls are excited to be around other kids.".

I suggest you ask Green Tortoise how many children are usually on these trips. Would they be disappointed if there were no other kids on the bus?

Have a wonderful trip!

california12

yes, that is an issue. Not many kids, in fact I think none... I am right now browsing to see if I can find some family adventure trips but they're all so expensive!

spirobulldog

REI stores rent camping gear.

spirobulldog

Only a few National Parks have Hot Showers.

DO NOT expect others to set up or help with your tent.

Personally, I would hate the bus thing.

california12

I did not know that NP did not have hot showers, that is not nice I'll check with the bus company as to the camping sites where we'll be stopping and see. Thanks for mentioning that.
And definetely the REI store looks well stocked.
The bus thing is definetely my kind of thing, b'se I like meeting new people. Also, the good side of it is that if we sleep on the bus then this takes away a good part of the driving. And when I showed the girls the bus video, they were very excited about it. But it may well be that 7 days is too long. The alternative is to go for a shorter trip of 4 days in Yosemite and Sequoia.
That would free up a lot of time, also.

DebitNM

How are the girls with bugs, dirt, heat, etc? A week camping, if you have never been, might end up seeming like a month. Perhaps the 4 days is the way to go, for a lot of reasons.

MichelleY

Camping in Italy is much different than here. Camping here is more rustic, closer to nature and the wild. Are you prepared for a bear coming thru the campgrounds during the night? It will be a possibility. Lots of dirt, cold at night. With 3 weeks, you could easily do this trip on your own, see what you want/when you want, and be relatively comfortable at probably better prices.

Here is a great trip report from several years ago to give you some ideas

http://www.fodors.com/community/unit...lden-state.cfm

Search here for trip reports and info, get some guide books and maps.

gail

Since it is 4 AM in the US and I can not sleep, I just spent a lot of time reading Green Tortoise website. Sounds like an interesting way to travel, and although I would hate it, many would love it. Also, as a child my family did a lot of camping - when the weather was nice, there was something to do and there were other kids around, it was fun. When it rained and I was bored, it was horrible and we probably made our parents just as miserable by complaining.

The National Parks all have lodges and Ranger activities that have large numbers of children and families - you would be much more likely to meet children there than on a tour where they specifically say to call them if you are thinking of bringing children. In addition, many Parks have hotels very hear them if the lodges are filled or if you want a break to stay in a real hotel.

If you did a trip seeing the things you want to see, and rented a car, you would only be driving longer distances for a few days. You would not need a car in San Francisco; there are a number of bus options between SF and LA. It is difficult to see a lot of LA without a car.

The roads between the National Parks you selected are not difficult to drive during the day. There is not a lot of fast traffic and while the roads do wind around the hills and mountains, there are not a lot of places to get lost.

Back to Green Tortoise - this sounds like the type of trip that experienced hikers and campers take. No one is going to help you with your tent, and you have strict luggage limits - you will need clothing for different temperatures and climates - not the type you are likely to already own. Do you really want to haul sleeping bags and a tent around for the 2 weeks you are not camping? Sounds like a lot of luggage to me - and while the Green Tortoise website says you don;t need other stuff - to camp with even minimal comfort you really do - even just lanterns/flashlights, sleeping mats, hats, gloves, boots - all things that will add up quickly and easily put you over your 50 pound (about 20kg) luggage limit.

If it were me I would spend your first days in LA - either with a rental car or booking day bus trips to see the sites. Take public transportation or tour bus to SF and see that city. At Yosemite-tours.com there are a number of 1-4 day tours from SF to Yosemite (I know nothing about this company - just found it on-line) Take a bus or tour bus to Las Vegas and then rent a car to see Zion, Bryce, Grand Canyon, spending a few days at each Park. Return to Las Vegas and get to Los Angeles - fly would be best, but not sure of cost. This would be less expensive than picking up the car in Las Vegas and returning it to another city.

lincasanova

or do an open jaw trip and end up where you want and fly out from there avoiding unnecessary backtracking.

fly into LAX
fly to Las Vegas. rent car later do Grand canyon. return to LAS
Fly to SFO/Oakland, whichever is cheaper
fly out of SFO home

california12

Thanks all, it is a real wealth of information. I'll read the trip Michelle did, it sounds great!

To DebitNM: When you say that the parks campsites are dirty, do you mean that the common facilities (showers, toilets) are not clean? This happens in poor quality campsites in Italy, but we've avoided those. And where we've been, it was very clean.

To Michelle: How cold will it get? Cold is a real problem because we all three suffer from cold a lot.

Gail, I also have insomnia, and was up browsing the internet a lot these days. I so relate. The website for Yosemite you suggested is quite nice. Nice also that they take care of accommodation, and let you do your thing. Ant the iterary you describe is quite nice. I just wish there was another family to share it with!!

OK, making a list of pros and cons.

Being on my own: Cons: 1) It is long to be on my own with no adult company for 3 weeks, whatever we're doing. 2) Lots of organization will be required (booking lodges, etc) and it is all on me. 3) I am afraid of driving on winding mountain roads 4) Costs are high of doing all of this in hotels/lodges. 5) The girls are looking forward to camping. Pros: No need for camping equipment. Comfort. Cleanliness. More time to be in each of the parks.

Bus: Pros. 1) budget 2) no need for a lot of camping equipment - and it can perhaps be hired (tent, mats, lights, sleeping bags) 3) Although I guess most of other people on the bus will go on long hikes, we really do not need to. Cons: Dirty. Cold. Hassle of mounting the tent each night.

to lincasanova is it worth fying LA-Vegas or LA-SF? The road is not winding, just motorway easy to drive...

Again thanks, I so appreciate being able to talk through this, and you're giving me very sensible advice and lots of info.