First of all you are doing a lot of bouncing around and not spendng enough time anywher to see much.

Second, disneyland is a big fat waste of tine. If you must do Disney go to Disney World when you visit Miami - although it's not something I would do.

Finally, not sure where you are from but in Nov/Dec you are going to get chilly and possibly snowy weather in NYC, Boston and Toronto. Also - for NYC this is the busiest and most exepsnvie time of year. You don;t mentin your budget - but the trip you have planned - with somuch moving around - will be a very large budget.

And you seem to be spending an awful lot of time at beaches and resorts (Cancun and Bahamas are NOT the US). You can see beaches anywhere - why spend limited time in the US just sitting on a beach?

Start over and first think regionally and move to more details from there. Based on regions you have expressed interest in:
CALIFORNIA/NEVADA - 8 days - including Los Angeles, SF, Las Vegas
FLORIDA and CRUISE - 12 days: Miami, cruise, Orlando
MIDDLE ATLANTIC/NORTHEAST - 8-10 days (3 in DC, 3 in NY, 2 in Boston plus travel)
HAWAII on return for 4 days.

Not necessarily the trip I would plan - but there is no right answer. This list includes much of what you expressed interest in seeing.

I agree that there are far too many beaches - Cancun, Hawaii, cruise, Miami, plus some of your California time. Unless you want a beach tour, cut some of this.

Not sure why you want to go to Dallas. Toronto is not the US either - and you might want to add another week and see Niagara Falls, Toronto, Montreal - if you want to include a bit of Canada.

The reason you are getting mixed answers, and will continue to do so, from everyone is that as you know the US is a huge country - you can not even begin to see any portion of it in 4 weeks (would take 4 years). So decide what is calling you.

If you cross off Dallas, Toronto, Boston, Cancun, then you're starting to have a workable trip.

You're flying all over the place which will take a lot of time and money, for not much benefit that I can see.

When you have "1 night" and "2 night" in places, you aren't allowing any time to get yourself there, which will take at least 1/2 a day away, each time you change locations.

You should go to Hawaii when you're already in California, not do it from 'back east'.

So besides trimming your itinerary, you also need to look at a map and go in a more logical order geographically.

Thanks so much for your feedback so far!
Ironically enough, this is based on a sample itinerary provided by a travel agent.

We are interested in beaches, however the suggestion that there is quite alot of beach time is definitely valid, and also at that point in the year we are likely to encounter poor weather too.

The agent added Dallas between Vegas and Cancun - we perhaps wondered whether this was necessary as a stop over to get to Cancun? If anyone knows why this would be please let us know - we had no intention or particular interest in visitin Dallas.

How long would you suggest in each location listed? Generally, the remaining locations are places we do want to see - the Canadian part is simply an afterthought?

Thanks again!!

when to fit in California and Hawaii and the East coast depends in great part on where you are traveling from? If Asia I'd maybe start on the east coast and work my way back west ending in Hawaii. From Europe - I'd start in California or Hawaii and end up on the east coast.

In any case, four to five weeks is not long enough for everything you want to see/do. What you cut out is up to you, but cuts need to be made.

I completely agree with janisj about the order of things. The original list you provided has 45 sleeping nights - which is closer to 7 weeks than 5, so obviously you have to cut things out, plus you haven't considered how you are getting from place to place (well, maybe you've considered it, but you haven't told us!)

-San Fran 4 nights
- Santa Barbra 1 night
- Beverly Hills 2 nights
- Santa Monica 2 nights
- Anaheim (Disneyland) 3 nights
- Las Vegas 4 nights
-Dallas (Is it necessaryy??) 2 nights
- Cancun 5 nights
-Miami 4 nights
-Bahamas Cruise 4 nights
-Washington DC 2 nights
-NYC 4 nights
-Boston 1 night
-Toronto 2 nights
-Honolulu 5 nights

I have to agree with others - you are doing yourself a disservice by trying to cram too much into such a short period. November/December can be quite cold in some parts of the US so you have to decide if you want to spend some or all of your time in cold weather or confine your trip to areas with more moderate temperatures.

I would cut down on the number of cities/areas you plan on visiting. Spend more time in less places rather than less time in more places. You might want to start your trip by visiting the northeast - say 5 days each in Boston, New York and Washington, DC - all great cities with lots to see and do - and you'll still only scratch the surface. It's also apt to be somewhat warmer in those locations at the beginning of November as opposed to December.

From there fly down to Miami for 5 to 7 days some warmth and beach time possibly even renting a car and driving to the Florida Keys for a couple of days.

Then it's off to California to visit, San Francisco, Los Angles (Beverley Hills), Santa Barbara and Santa Monica - again spending 4 or 5 days in each place.

Skip going to Hawaii (it's a long flight0 unless you really feel the need to get some island time and don't even bother going to Las Vegas unless you really need the glitz of a gambling town.

I won't go to Dallas on this trip but if you felt the need to visit Texas consider going to San Antonio instead.

Remember, traveling between the various cities will be time consuming - you'll lose anywhere between 1/2 and a full day each time you move from city to city.

Good Luck planning your trip.

stephiejade: I didn't see you last post (we were on at the same time) but advice still applies.

Sorry, I hit "submit" too early.

If you really realistically have 5 weeks "on the ground",

San Fran 4 nights cut to 3 nights
- Santa Barbra 1 night skip unless you are driving down the coast from SF to LA)
- Beverly Hills 2 nights Combine Beverly Hills and Santa Monica into 3 nights in LA (they're too close to each other to bother moving hotels)
- Santa Monica 2 nights
- Anaheim (Disneyland) 3 nights I love Disneyland, but 2 nights is plenty
- Las Vegas 4 nights one night every 10 years is enough for me - cut to 2 nights
-Dallas (Is it necessaryy??) 2 nights cut
- Cancun 5 nights cut
-Miami 4 nights 3
-Bahamas Cruise 4 nights
-Washington DC 2 nights 3
-NYC 4 nights
-Boston 1 nightcut Boston, Toronto, Honolulu-Toronto 2 nights
-Honolulu 5 nights

Remaining: 25 sleeping nights, which is closer to the time you said you'd be here. Also, will you need multiple entry visas for the trip you originally posted, and can you get them?

If you don't need the remaining time for traveling between places, you could add Hawaii back in from California. It's an easy 5-6 hour non-stop flight from either SF or LA to Honolulu.

If you must go to Cancun, can I suggest Playa del Carmen instead? It's under a 1 hour bus ride from Cancun and is alot more authentic than the row of resorts that you will see in Cancun. You can walk a block away from teh busy street in Playa and experience the real Mexican culture. There is also a 45 minute ferry that can take you to Cozumel.
If you are sold on Cancun, take a day trip to Isla Mujeres! It's only a 45 minuite ferry ride as well.

Also, let me know if you need suggestions for Honolulu. I was recently there-it's a good idea to rent a car and explore the rest of the island like the North Coast.

sf7307 has given you a really good framework to edit/reorganize/improve your itinerary.

"Ironically enough, this is based on a sample itinerary provided by a travel agent."

Fire your travel agent. This person is either clueless or sadistic. Seriously. The itinerary doesn't make any sense at all. What would be the point of going to Boston for 1 night enroute from NYC to Toronto? Just a waste of time and money because you won't have any time to actually see anything - maybe half a day for sightseeing, dinner, and breakfast, and then you are off.

"The agent added Dallas between Vegas and Cancun - we perhaps wondered whether this was necessary as a stop over to get to Cancun? If anyone knows why this would be please let us know - we had no intention or particular interest in visitin Dallas."

Yep, fire the agent. You have no interest in Dallas, yet this person suggests that you spend 2 nights there? You might change planes in Dallas to get to Cancun from LV depending on your airline - Dallas is a big airport and lots of routings go through there - but that doesn't mean that you should spend a couple nights in a place that you have no interest in.

I think that you need to really research what YOU are interested in rather than try this shotgun approach.

I would want more than one night if driving down Highway 1 from SF to LA - stay 1 night Monterey, 1 night in Cambria or Pismo Beach and 1 night Santa Barbara. There is so much to see along this coast and you cannot drive very fast (especially the section between Big Sur and Cambria) since the road is twisty.

I don't mean this to be ugly. This trip sounds stressful and no time for relaxation.

I would pick a few spots close in distance see those/enjoy yourself.

You still haven't said where you are coming from.

Do you like hiking/sports/wine/history/museums?

Have you been to the US before?

What is your budget?

<Ironically enough, this is based on a sample itinerary provided by a travel agent.>

Seriously, they do NOT know what they are doing. It's a ridiculous itinerary.

<We are interested in beaches...and also at that point in the year we are likely to encounter poor weather too.>

Did I miss it? What time of year is this trip? The weather's nice pretty much year-round in both Hawaii and Mexico.

Third line of original post - Nov/Dec

Oops, thanks sf7307.

Well then my statement holds. November and December are typically very nice weather in both Mexico and Hawaii. I'm not sure why you think it will be "poor weather"?

I think the poor weather comment refers to places like NYC, Boston, Toronto.

Oh since it was in the paragraph about beaches, I thought she was worried about poor weather for the beach.

The northeast doesn't have poor eather. It has 4 distinct seasons - and each has (usually) seasonal weather. Frankly I can't bear the summers - just too hot. I prefer winter (I get very energized) then fall and spring. Cities like this are perfect for cooler weather - since it's good for a lot of walking (who want to hike all over a city when it's 85 degrees) and there are a zillion things to do indoors.

If you want a beach vacation that's fine - but frankly there are better and cheaper places to get one than the US (although we have great beaches, they're rarely inexpensive). If you want to see the US - do see different areas and different climates.

Hey guys! Wow thank you all so much - it's giving us heaps to think about. We are travelling from Melbourne, Australia and this will be our first time to the US hence speaking with the travel agent with regards to where/when/how is best to go. This in mind, and a budget of around 8k, how would you suggest planning the trip?

You've got the geography of our original idea, it was suggested to hire a car west coast, and utilize the train system east coast/New York? Does this make sense?

You've all been awesome so far - thanks again!

Hey Mate: Seems like you travel agent wanted to pick up commissions - which some resorts (Cancun?) pay more for than others.

I would fly into Hawaii from Australia - and then after resting up from the long flight/relaxing on the beaches for a few days (see other posts in here - about what/where people recommend - and that's a whole nutter kettle of fish) - fly to San Francisco (about a 5 hour flight) - and enjoy "Baghdad by the Bay".

From there - I would yes, hire/rent a car (see www.carrentals.com for some info) - and take at least a couple days driving down the Coast - and enjoy staying in the Carmel/Monterrey/Big Sur area one night - and then a 2nd night in say cute Cambria http://www.cambriachamber.org/ or maybe Danish themed Solvang. http://www.solvangusa.com/

I would recommend you also try to take a tour of Hearst Castle/at San Simeon - below Big Sur - probably a half a day is needed for that http://www.hearstcastle.org/ - or at least stop in the Visitor's center and watch the movie/tour the small exhibit there) and then when you get to LA - spend a couple nights out by the beach/Santa Monica? - and drive in along Sunset to wander around Beverly Hills/West Hollywood, drive through UCLA, etc.

You might also consider touring the amazing Getty Center. http://www.getty.edu/

You could also include a couple days in San Diego if you want to visit a place where you can get around easier than LA, see the Zoo/Safari Park, Old Town, Balboa Park and it's museums, drive over to the classic Hotel Del, whatnot. It's only an hour from here up to Anaheim/Disneyland - which in one day you can easily determine if you want to come back for another day on this trip.

From LA/Orange County-Disneyland/San Diego- it's a 4 to 5 hour drive to Las Vegas - and I definitely think Vegas is worth a couple of days. Just seeing the interesting architectural styles of the various resorts is a trip - and you don't really have to gamble - as visiting the fantastic fountains and Arboretum at Bellagio is quite interesting, as is taking a Gondola ride the Venetian, going up the Eiffel Tower at Paris, driving out to Red Rock Canyon (20 minutes) for an idea of the stark beauty of the Southwest, perhaps taking a helicopter flight - or one day van tour - of the Grand Canyon, whatnot.

From there - turn in the rental car (check ahead on what the drop off fee will/might cost)and fly to/hit the Big Apple - NYC - and maybe take the train to Washington DC and/or Boston to gain more experience in your fellow colony.

Sounds like you will have a memorable trip. Have a blast.

Oh yes - if you still want to see Miami/do a Bahamas cruise - you can easily fly there from NYC, or vice versa. A 3or 4 day cruise around the Bahams is fun - and Miami has nice weather in the fall/winter. NO humidity or bugs.

Forgot to mention: Vegas (aka Lost Wages) - has great shows/entertainment - and besides Cirque de Soleil - a number of big name entertainers rotate through the City of Light. (The US version anyway.

You can get discount tickets at places along the Strip - and here is one company and there are others. Just google away ahead of time to see what is going on when you plan to be there.

http://www.tix4tonight.com/discount-las-vegas-show-tickets.html

I think that tom is definitely on the right track with the itinerary.

You've got Hawaii, a bunch of California, Las Vegas, east coast cities, and then Miami/Bahamas. This will give you a very nice sampling of the country. If you have room in your itinerary, you could include a few days in New Orleans as well. That is a very unique city, nothing else like it anywhere - food, music, architecture - just a really neat place.

you should think about doing this in two different visits to the USA, maybe a 2nd visit in two years. I know that travel from Australia may be considered "once in a lifetime trip", but really with visiting so many places, you are spending more money on this one convoluted trip than you would spend on two trips....and you are rushed and not seeing much anywhere. Air travel around the U.S. is not fun, it is a challenge, you're dealing with time difference of 3 hours across the country so losing one full day when you travel west coast to east coast etc. Plus December can have weather delays/ snow all up the east coast. You can't plan Boston for just one night....your plane could be delayed 48 hours in a snow emergency...you'd get to Boston and would already have missed your bus to Toronto etc.

The travel agent's itinerary is 6 and a half weeks long, not 5 weeks. And he hasn't allowed for the 'travel days', getting from place to place.

If you stick to that 1st itinerary I'd cut out Dallas and add one night to DC and one night to Boston. Cut out Cancun and Toronto and then you'd be down to a 5 week trip and closing in on your budget.

First check car rental pricing through Traveljigsaw.com.au as they will include the needed insurance and often will get oneway dropoff fees waived, they get good reviews on another travel forum from other Australians.

Second, TomSD has a good idea, however I would do Hawaii on the way home as most Aussies love to shop and that way you would not have to lug all your stuff along as you travel. Good shopping in Honolulu and the Aussie dollar is still pretty strong against the USD.

joesource may have a good idea to cut out the East Coast and save it for another trip.

Working basically from your original itinerary, this works out to 4-1/2 weeks (32 days):

Fly into Hawaii:
Honolulu 5 nights
San Fran 4 nights
Santa Barbara 1 night
Beverly Hills 2 nights
Santa Monica 2 nights
Anaheim (Disneyland) 3 nights
Cancun/Playa del Carmen 5 nights

Fly back east:
Miami 4 nights
Washington DC 2 nights
NYC 4 nights

Fly home from New York City.

Cross off: Bahamas Cruise, Boston, Las Vegas, Dallas, Toronto

Suze has given you a plan and it could be worked in the opposite direction, starting in NYC for 4 nights and ending in Hawaii. This would give you a rest at the end of the trip. Do be aware that the flights/travel between places will take at least part of a day out of each destination.

You can go back and forth endlessly debating the merits of a plan. Personally - I like to see as much as possible the first time - more of a survey trip - and I find travel energiziing.

Yet - some people prefer to spend more time in fewer areas and explore them more in depth.

To each their own - but I would add that I think if you are hitting Hawaii and Miami/w/ a cruise - that's plenty of "beach time" and you could cut out Dallas/Cancun and apply those days/travel time elsewhere.

Even if you are trying to "see as much as possible the first time", still you need a reality check. *possible* being the operative word. The first ininterary does NOT work.

You simply can't go to Boston 1 night, New York 1 night, LA 1 night, etc. Well I guess you can but you wouldn't have time to leave the airport(s)!

Yeah, I think we are all in agreement (including the OP) that the original itinerary doesn't work. We are onto helping the OP figure out a good itinerary because the travel agent appears to be absolutely worthless.

When I add this up - I get 45 nights from the first itinerary?

If that is correct - here is what I would do:

Fly either to Hawaii at the start - or at the end. Say 4 or 5 days/nights.

Anyhow - 4 or 5 days in don't call if "Frisco" - including maybe a day tour of wine country. Recommend you don't drive if you are imbibing very heavily - and you can take the ferry over to Marin County and be picked up there by tours - which is less expensive.

Spend a night in the Carmel/Monterrey/Big Sur area - and then another night in the Cambria or Solvang Areas.

Spend 3 nights in Santa Monica - "commuting" from there into Beverley Hills - Hollywood, etc. It's about a 45? minute drive - assuming of course - you don't go during the morning or evening rush hours.

Would suggest you spend 3 nights in San Diego - and one day - get up to and back from Disneyland.

We have now taken up 12-13 days if you first fly in SF - or 16 to 17/18 if you stop in Hawaii first.

Drive over to Las Vegas - and spend 4 or 5 nights there (you can get good deals on lodging - and there are plenty of shows, etc) and one day - either flying or taking a bus tour - go see the magnificent Grand Canyon.

From Vegas - fly to NYC - and then spend time there (4 nights?) - and then 2-3 nights in DC. You could also zip up to Boston on the train - 3 scenic hours - and spend a night or two there. Your call of course.

Ok - so now we are up to what - 25 or so days if you first flew into SF - or 30 or so if you flew into Hawaii and kicked back there for a few days.

Again, if my count is right - you still have about 13-15 days/2 weeks left - already factoring in the Hawaii time.

You could spend say 4 days in the Miami area - and take a 3 to 4 day cruise - and you still have a week or more to play with.

Suggest you now go back over this plan and add more days where you feel you might want to stay - or I like to build in a couple days of flexibility here and there - if you decide you love some place and want to spend some more time there.

In November - or even if you could start in say mid-October - it's usually not that busy (except for Thanksgiving thursday - and have your place reserved for the last part of that week - and try to get there the Wed before - or Tues if you can - to avoid the huge travel crunch - and either leave on a Sat - or Monday/Tuesday.

Anyhow - you could make reservations where you want to go - and leave a couple days open here and there - maybe spedning more time at the end driving down the Cal Coast (you might want to spend a couple of days in say Big Sur) - and there are a lotta places to stay in LA and/or SD if you need to be "flexible" and slide/cancel a reservtion.

Also - when you get to NYC - and see DC/and or Boston - you might have a couple days open there if you want to spend more time in one of those places before heading south for some warm weather.

Hope this helps.

Why not consider doing half of this trip?

California and include the beautiful northern coast and San Francisco.

Las Vega, if you must but instead of Dallas (unless you are going to see the art) why not go to Tucson Arizona for the flavor of the old West. Oct-Nov is nice.

Enjoy the West, including Hawaii.

I'll bet you can save enough money by cutting the East out to come back next year.

If you do follow Tom's itinerary to some extent and have some extra days, I second the idea of spending a little time in New Orleans. Another beautiful city is Charleston, South Carolina, and it would let you take a peek at the Old South venue. If you plan this as an overview trip, I'd do less of California and Miami and more of other different locales.

Again - it's about how one likes to travel and how much they want to see - and in what manner.

I like going for it - but others want to kick back in fewer places and explore the areas more.

Wow, this is a very ambitious trip but I salute you! I went from Massachusetts to Australia and only had two weeks to spend so I understand wanting to see it all Some thoughts:

1. Do you really need more beaches on vacation? I can tell you from personal experience, Australia has some of the best beaches in the world. If you really want to experience more beaches, I'd definitely take Hawaii but on the way back - just relax!

2. Some facts about the U.S. weather in Nov/Dec (which some others have mentioned). Yes, the Northeast is colder than the rest of the country (Boston, NYC, Toronto) and can possibly create weather delays. However, it could also be very mild such as last year, definitely cheaper and less crowded to travel during that time - except Christmas, when everything is expensive.

3. If you could narrow down your travel interests, that would be helpful. Do you like museums, amusement parks, hiking/nature, gambling, drinking, etc? I am still trying to figure out why you are stopping in Santa Barbara

4. If I was recommending to a friend from Australia to come and experience as much "America" as he could get, I'd recommend these general tips:

Day 1: Fly into LAX, stay in airport hotel and rest.
Day 2: Fly to Boston, spend two days walking the city and seeing New England Aquarium.
Day 5: Amtrak train to NYC
Day 6-8: See a Broadway show, Statue of Liberty, 9/11 memorial, NYC library, Central Park, etc.
Day 9: Amtrak train to Washington DC
Day 10-15: Explore DC, all museums and monuments are free (or nearly free) and a wonderful walking city to enjoy.
Day 16: Fly to Vegas, rent car
Day 17-21: Party in Vegas! Drive to Grand Canyon and Hoover Dam (about 5 hours away), see Red Rock Canyons (just 30 minutes away) and see the shows in town.
Day 22-29: Drive to California and pick up Pacific Coast Highway all the way to SF.
Day 30: Fly to Hawaii to rest up!

I realize this is a bit "east coast" heavy and there are many variations but just my two cents

Yo Vivid: A "bit" East Coast heavy? Really? Looks like you have 15 days there?

Hey - I am partial to California - and there is a reason it's the most populated state in America with almost 38 million.

It has something for everyone - including great beaches!!!! Double

However - it's not a bad idea to consider getting to the East Coast while the weather is better there, and I always liked Boston. Spend a couple days there, then 3 or 4 in NYC - and then a couple in DC? - and then do the Miami/Bahamas cruise and then head west?

Certainly doable - but then again, driving the beautiful Cal Coast in October is a real treat. Nice weather without the throngs of tourists. Triple

I think putting Hawaii at the end, instead of the beginning, is a great plan. A relaxing end to the trip, instead of "relaxing" before you even get going! So like my post above but in reverse order, good idea guys!!

I like Vivid's route with one exception. If you rent the car in Las Vegas, drive to all of the places mentioned including California but return the car to Las Vegas and fly to Hawaii from Las Vegas. Allegiant recently started to fly from Vegas to Honolulu. Rental cars are much cheaper in LV compared to CA. You should not drop off a Las Vegas rental car anywhere but Las Vegas.

Here is my 2 cents:

L.A. / Orange County is NOT a beach destination in Nov/Dec.

Skip Dallas.

Skip Boston if you are only going to spend 1 night.

Three nights in Las Vegas is enough.

The Thanksgiving holiday is Nov 22. Driving from Las Vegas to Los Angeles the following Sunday, the 25th, would be a bad idea.

Airfares should be relatively inexpensive between L.A or Long Beach and Las Vegas at that time of year. You don't really need a car there, unless you make day trips out of the city in which case a fourth night might make sense.

You should get good hotel rates in Las Vegas at that time of year, especially mid-week. But it will be pretty dead mid-week. In the beginning of December, Las Vegas hosts the National Finals Rodeo. It is Dec 6-8 this year. It would be one of the more lively weekends in L.V. in Dec. and fun. Some interesting characters then, unlike the usual cast.

An airplane (not helicopter) and ground tour to the Grand Canyon South Rim (not North Rim) is a fun half-day trip from Las Vegas. Pickup at your hotel, flight out at 6AM and back by 2PM.

Because you are old enough to drive I would say that 3 days for Anaheim (Disneyland and other stuff) is too long. Up to 3 days too long.

Fly, not train, between Florida and the Northeast (NY or Boston).

Hopefully, you are over 26 years old - for renting a car.

Tomsd,

What can I say? I'm partial The PCH trip is one that I want to do for myself - so I am envious of that as well. The only reason I suggest Boston/NYC/DC is because many of my international friends want to see some historical (early American) stuff as well as the "Big Apple". I know there are TONS of awesome American places to see but just my two cents

I'd love to hear more about what the travelers like to do - that would help us all narrow it down better

Tomfuller gave you misinformation about car rental prices, they are no cheaper in Las Vegas than in California. Besides, Aussies pay completely different rates than U.S. citizens and there are generally no one-way drop fees at least with Hertz, National, Alamo and sometimes Avis.

Does the 8k budget include the two round trip tickets from Australia? Does that leave you with about 5.5K? Or 4.5 k after taking into consideration fast food for 5 to 6 weeks? So, about $900 per week budget including hotels, and all this air-travel for two persons around the country?

Re-think

I have never rented a car in California for less than $19/day (base rate). Several times I have rented in LV for 14 to 18 with lower taxes/fees than CA airports.
Glad that Brits and Aussies can drop off in CA without penalty.
Does this also work in Las Vegas?

What Americans can get rental car-wise really has no bearing on what foreign visitors can . . .

Several international brokers specialize in renting to foreigners (just as we can get better rates when visiting their countries)

And insurance is an issue since their own car insurance does not cover them here (as ours wouldn't overseas). So any $19 rental rate could be three+ times that when insurance is tacked on.

These international brokers often quote low, all inclusive rates including ins. and any drop off fees (or there are no fees)