Taking Disney to Task
Apr 12th, 2000, 07:09 PM
#1
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Taking Disney to Task
I decided that this should be a separate discussion. The following are the three most recent messages from the 'Florida is Still Unsafe' discussion. I hope that regardless of what people think of AMS's other posts, they will take the following very seriously.
Note that Arthur Frommer levels some similar criticism at Disney at:
http://frommers.com/soap_box/testy_o...s/phil_10.html
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Author: sane? ([email protected])
Date: 4/12/2000, 6:55 pm ET
Message: I may be way off, but it seems to me that the guy that keeps downing florida, is really a resident of florida and is himself sick of tourists. Therefore he is trying to scare off people like me from taking their children to Disney World.
Well, I hate to disappoint you, but myself and my husband are taking my two girls to Disney, Seaworld, Universal, and Melbourne Beach. We are spending around 5000.00 to do this and it is a once in a lifetime thing for us. I don't think people like you should ruin things for the rest of us.
If it weren't for tourism, Florida would dry up and blow away with the hurricanes!!!!!!!!!
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Author: AMS ([email protected])
Date: 4/12/2000, 9:19 pm ET
Message: My reply to Sane is:
Before you allow your kids to romp through the Disney and Universal Park on their own, why don't you join them through the attractions such as 'Alien', Tornado, King Kong, Haunted House, E.T.,Earthquake, Hercules, Ferry Boat, Jaws, Terminator, Back to the Future, etc. and then ask yourself do these exhibits really have any social redeeming value other than scaring the heck out of kids. The Disney attractions opportunize upon human weaknesses and I suggest that they are potentially psychologically destructive. Nothing of what they give you is real, historical, or educational. Its just make believe hocus, pocus fantasy that you have no control over. And who is to say that the after effects of your Kids experiences at the Park does not leave an indelible pychological impression that manifests years later as destructive behavior. The Disney Park, and Universal, Epcot, MGM Grand attractions in Orlando are widely overrated family attractions that really undercut everything we normally think of as furthering the family. However, I see nothing wrong with Sea World and some of the fringe attractions. However, people don't spend $5000.00 to come to Florida just to visit Sea World and the fringe attractions. In my view your wasting your money and your hurting your kids.
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Author: AMS ([email protected])
Date: 4/12/2000, 9:45 pm ET
Message: I might add, there have even been several reports of wild animals dying for unknown reasons at the Disney related preserve which has animal activist groups up in arms. If the park is not safe for Wild Animals, can it be really safe for kids? At the Disney Park and Universal, also, there is simply a general attitude of disregard for the sanctity of life.
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Author: Noah ([email protected])
Date: 4/12/2000, 10:43 pm ET
Message: I agree with AMS about Disney. Furthermore, Disney is an evil corporation which employs sweatshop labor in third-world countries.
For $5,000 you can take a great vacation in many places. What about taking your kids to the Aloha state to see spectacular natural beauty and meaningful historical attractions such as Pearl Harbor.
Note that Arthur Frommer levels some similar criticism at Disney at:
http://frommers.com/soap_box/testy_o...s/phil_10.html
-----------------------------------------
Author: sane? ([email protected])
Date: 4/12/2000, 6:55 pm ET
Message: I may be way off, but it seems to me that the guy that keeps downing florida, is really a resident of florida and is himself sick of tourists. Therefore he is trying to scare off people like me from taking their children to Disney World.
Well, I hate to disappoint you, but myself and my husband are taking my two girls to Disney, Seaworld, Universal, and Melbourne Beach. We are spending around 5000.00 to do this and it is a once in a lifetime thing for us. I don't think people like you should ruin things for the rest of us.
If it weren't for tourism, Florida would dry up and blow away with the hurricanes!!!!!!!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Author: AMS ([email protected])
Date: 4/12/2000, 9:19 pm ET
Message: My reply to Sane is:
Before you allow your kids to romp through the Disney and Universal Park on their own, why don't you join them through the attractions such as 'Alien', Tornado, King Kong, Haunted House, E.T.,Earthquake, Hercules, Ferry Boat, Jaws, Terminator, Back to the Future, etc. and then ask yourself do these exhibits really have any social redeeming value other than scaring the heck out of kids. The Disney attractions opportunize upon human weaknesses and I suggest that they are potentially psychologically destructive. Nothing of what they give you is real, historical, or educational. Its just make believe hocus, pocus fantasy that you have no control over. And who is to say that the after effects of your Kids experiences at the Park does not leave an indelible pychological impression that manifests years later as destructive behavior. The Disney Park, and Universal, Epcot, MGM Grand attractions in Orlando are widely overrated family attractions that really undercut everything we normally think of as furthering the family. However, I see nothing wrong with Sea World and some of the fringe attractions. However, people don't spend $5000.00 to come to Florida just to visit Sea World and the fringe attractions. In my view your wasting your money and your hurting your kids.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Author: AMS ([email protected])
Date: 4/12/2000, 9:45 pm ET
Message: I might add, there have even been several reports of wild animals dying for unknown reasons at the Disney related preserve which has animal activist groups up in arms. If the park is not safe for Wild Animals, can it be really safe for kids? At the Disney Park and Universal, also, there is simply a general attitude of disregard for the sanctity of life.
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Author: Noah ([email protected])
Date: 4/12/2000, 10:43 pm ET
Message: I agree with AMS about Disney. Furthermore, Disney is an evil corporation which employs sweatshop labor in third-world countries.
For $5,000 you can take a great vacation in many places. What about taking your kids to the Aloha state to see spectacular natural beauty and meaningful historical attractions such as Pearl Harbor.
Apr 12th, 2000, 08:32 PM
#3
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To Noah:
This new thread is a great idea. Hopefully, there will be some intelligible commentary on this important topic. However, we are up against great odds--a multi-billion dollar media industry which Disney is a part of that exploits and cashes in on human weaknesses. I will stay on the sidelines to allow others to develop the dialogue. Disney and Universal in Orlando have taken the term 'fun' well beyond the threshold of acceptability and now pose a risk to the mental stability of children and young adults.
This new thread is a great idea. Hopefully, there will be some intelligible commentary on this important topic. However, we are up against great odds--a multi-billion dollar media industry which Disney is a part of that exploits and cashes in on human weaknesses. I will stay on the sidelines to allow others to develop the dialogue. Disney and Universal in Orlando have taken the term 'fun' well beyond the threshold of acceptability and now pose a risk to the mental stability of children and young adults.
Apr 13th, 2000, 11:17 AM
#4
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So what if the Mouse is really a big Rat??? People are still going to go to WDW, and nothing you do or say will change that. It's not worth sweating over.
Noah and AMS, I don't mean to be nasty or anything, but I think you gentlemen have way too much time on your hands. You both need to turn off your computers and get a life! Go outside and commune with nature, better yet do some volunteer work. There are hundreds and hundreds of volunteers needed in communities across this great land of ours. I am sure your community needs them also. Some suggestions, deliver meals on wheels, visit a hospice, mentor a child, read to grade school children etc. You are both articulate individuals and I am sure you have a lot to give. Make a difference in someone's life instead of spending all your time posting on this board.
Noah and AMS, I don't mean to be nasty or anything, but I think you gentlemen have way too much time on your hands. You both need to turn off your computers and get a life! Go outside and commune with nature, better yet do some volunteer work. There are hundreds and hundreds of volunteers needed in communities across this great land of ours. I am sure your community needs them also. Some suggestions, deliver meals on wheels, visit a hospice, mentor a child, read to grade school children etc. You are both articulate individuals and I am sure you have a lot to give. Make a difference in someone's life instead of spending all your time posting on this board.
Apr 13th, 2000, 02:33 PM
#6
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With some horror, I admit to siding with AMS on something -- and I adore her word "effantically." I nominate it for best neologism of 2000.
But re
isney. I grew up loving the Disney movies in the 1950s; but since Walt's death, the company has become something out of Kafka or Vonnegut or worse. WDW is gaggingly surreal, and the movies now trade on every stereotype and create a few new ones.
I held my nose and took my son when he was the right age, and the Rodent's reaction when we reported the worst case of food poisoning I've ever had was downright fascist. I wrote telling them to check the facilities in the Mexican restaurant in Epcot and suggested that the hotel staff could have been a lot more helpful (I won't go into detail, but they treated my sickness as an abuse of the privilege of staying there). I got a hostile phone call from a corporation doctor, complete with recording beeps, and a registered letter from their lawyer telling me I wasn't used to Florida's water and was probably sunstruck (I'd been staying in Sarasota for 2 weeks, and it rained the whole time we were at WDW). I never asked for anything, would have liked an "I'm sorry you had a bad experience" letter instead of a CMA rallying of the troops.
But what Disney has done to Florida's ecology, our cultural tastes, and the once-independent media system is just plain scary. Did anyone else get the pleasure of watching Disney and Time-Warner scrap in full-page newspaper ads that were supposed to make us feel sorry for them? Which "World" do they live in? They have the Plastic Rodent's paws in many of our pockets already -- now they want the rest.
But re
isney. I grew up loving the Disney movies in the 1950s; but since Walt's death, the company has become something out of Kafka or Vonnegut or worse. WDW is gaggingly surreal, and the movies now trade on every stereotype and create a few new ones. I held my nose and took my son when he was the right age, and the Rodent's reaction when we reported the worst case of food poisoning I've ever had was downright fascist. I wrote telling them to check the facilities in the Mexican restaurant in Epcot and suggested that the hotel staff could have been a lot more helpful (I won't go into detail, but they treated my sickness as an abuse of the privilege of staying there). I got a hostile phone call from a corporation doctor, complete with recording beeps, and a registered letter from their lawyer telling me I wasn't used to Florida's water and was probably sunstruck (I'd been staying in Sarasota for 2 weeks, and it rained the whole time we were at WDW). I never asked for anything, would have liked an "I'm sorry you had a bad experience" letter instead of a CMA rallying of the troops.
But what Disney has done to Florida's ecology, our cultural tastes, and the once-independent media system is just plain scary. Did anyone else get the pleasure of watching Disney and Time-Warner scrap in full-page newspaper ads that were supposed to make us feel sorry for them? Which "World" do they live in? They have the Plastic Rodent's paws in many of our pockets already -- now they want the rest.
Apr 13th, 2000, 02:37 PM
#7
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As I college student in Orange County, CA, in the 1960s, I aplied for a job at Disneyland. I withdrew my application when fellow students warned about how fascist this organization is. I have heard many more horror stories over the years, and I have had no urge to visit any of their theme parks.
Apr 13th, 2000, 03:29 PM
#8
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Disney is no different than any big corporation in America today. Why do you think all the big companies wanted NAFTA approved? So, they could set up shop down in Mexico and pay 50 cents and hour and pollute all they want with no regulations or EPA breathing down there neck. The Chemical Companies are another breed of slime ball corporate America driven by greeed. The cancer rate near the Chemical Plants is 3x the national average. And they are the worst polluters, same goes with the oil companies. The only power we consumers have is to boycott their products in hopes we make a dent in their profits.
Apr 14th, 2000, 10:43 AM
#12
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You know I really feel sorry for you Noah and your pal AMS. I think both of you are so lonely, that you have to have human contact by posting on this board. Why don't you join some kind of club or something and let the real travelers ask the serious travel questions.
Apr 14th, 2000, 11:09 AM
#15
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With all due respect Noah, you and AMS are always on this board. I check in here once in a while to get information on places I want to go and to give advice and all I see are your names and the times you are replying. Don't you have anything better to do??? Are you both lonely or housebound or what??? Do you two even travel or are you wannabes?? All I ever see you two post, are pollyanna warnings! Furthermore, this is not the forum for your political agendas. This forum is for TRAVELERS seeking information about destinations etc. Not to listen to two, tired, bitter men carp about insurance and real estate ripoffs, Latinos, Mafia, Corruption etc. You are just making fools of yourselves! You are not going to change anyone's mind about visiting Florida or Disney so why waste your time and energy. If you have something to contribute to Travel Information or have traveled to places, then I welcome your exchange of ideas. But until then, keep your politics, problems,warnings. off this board. Thank you.
Apr 14th, 2000, 11:23 AM
#16
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I TOTALLY agree with Hildy and will say again, as I did in a previous post-this place is for people to ask/answer LEGIT travel questions. Noah just posts websites (anyone can do that) and AMS just criticizes Florida. TOOOOOOOOOO much time on your hands, fellas/gals/same person - whatever.
Apr 14th, 2000, 11:38 AM
#17
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I am not 'AMS',I do not know him and I do not agree with everything which he says. In fact, I posted a challenge to one of the things he said on 'The FL is Still Unsafe' thread a while back. I have not followed that thread for a long time.
Having said all that, I recently skimmed through it and really appreciated AMS's post about Disney World as it echoed my own sentiments and I decided to start a separate thread based on it.
The wonderful thing about this forum is that anyone with computer access is free to express themselves. If you disagree with any of the opinions stated here you are free to challenge them but personal attacks and criticisms are not appropriate.
My posts are appropriate for this forum as they do deal with travel issues. It is perfectly legitimate to discuss social and moral aspects of travel but in fact, many of my posts offer useful basic information as well. If you search this forum you will find quite a few people who appreciated posts of mine. If you don't like my posts, that's fine and no one is forcing you to read them but you have no right to try and silence me.
Having said all that, I recently skimmed through it and really appreciated AMS's post about Disney World as it echoed my own sentiments and I decided to start a separate thread based on it.
The wonderful thing about this forum is that anyone with computer access is free to express themselves. If you disagree with any of the opinions stated here you are free to challenge them but personal attacks and criticisms are not appropriate.
My posts are appropriate for this forum as they do deal with travel issues. It is perfectly legitimate to discuss social and moral aspects of travel but in fact, many of my posts offer useful basic information as well. If you search this forum you will find quite a few people who appreciated posts of mine. If you don't like my posts, that's fine and no one is forcing you to read them but you have no right to try and silence me.
Apr 14th, 2000, 12:18 PM
#20
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These posts get more unbelievable every day. Frankly, I find Noah and his pal, AMS, to be very tiresome. Now, would someone explain to me how Disney is potentially psychologically destructive? I have been there 18 times, and will be going back in January. I am a wife, mother and a lobbyist for education issues and feel that I am very well adjusted. At no point do I or anyone else feel that I have been harmed by my love of Disney. Then again, I have good parents who kept me grounded and would not let me believe that Disney is anything but fantasy. I intend to be the same way with my daughter. Perhaps Noah and AMS had no such parenting. For my family and I, Disney is the one place that we can go and forget our stressful lives and jobs and be kids. As for the educational aspect, no Disney is not the most educational destination on earth, but not all vacations need to be a learning experience. And, Noah, before you get on here and suggest that I visit Hawaii, or a national park instead of Disney, and that I am being deprived of other experiences, I assure you that I am well-travelled. Disney is not our only vacation destination. We travel often and to a wide variety of places, something I don't think Noah can attest to. It is just that Disney has a very special appeal to us. So, Noah and AMS, how about getting on with your lives and let the rest of us participate in a constructive travel forum?
