Any thoughts?

Search for another forum!

http://www.paradiselakes.com/

"Swingers"????? wow- do people really use that word anymore?

Did "swinging" not go out in the 70s or early 80s, with the onset of very unpleasant illnesses?

"Not on the East coast,".... you don't want to run into anyone you know? lol...

Maybe Google can help you?

exactly suze - made me think what are those folks from the 70's lookin like these days!!!! Guess AAFF can give us the dtails

Truly... it made me flash back to long sideburns, a pasley shirt with wide labels.

I know there are sex clubs of various persuasions in the suburbs of Seattle (my area) but I have *never* heard it called "swinging" in decades.

I guess they go by several names... "adults only" or "alternative" resorts... by we're old fashioned and still call them swingers.

I chuckled when I read your posts... no sideburns or checkered pants here. We're happily married, pretty normal, and financially secure. Just trying to have a little fun.

The reason we're not looking for the East Coast is because we already travel there extensively. This is meant to be partly a fun, new resort experience, but partly travelling to someplace new. Hence, the posting on Fodors.

I'd guess you'll have more luck on some other "swinging" forum. If any of the "regulars" on here gave you any suggestions, I'll bet they'd be teased unmercifully until it got ugly and the editors nuke the thread.

AAFrequentflyer was very brave

Scarlett, you've obviously never heard of the Ace of Hearts club in Portland, have ya?

No, Andrew, not til now...I gotta go Google it and read all about it LOL

Now I'm hearing that song in my head, you know, the one about Charlotte Johnson:

And we'll be swaanginnn"

Good luck in finding what your looking for, and remember not to get caught out in the storm without a raincoat.

No, Paradise Lakes is NOT a swinger's place! It is not a sex club. It is a clothing optional resort. Big difference! It is affiliated with AANR www.aanr.com (I am a card-carrying member of AANR, pronounce "anner").

Bringing up the idea of swinging with people at an aanr club would be like at a regular "textile" resort. Except that at an annr club you would be more than likely be asked to leave.

This is weird Cargillman..

How about Hedonism in Jamaica? Is that swingin' enough for you?

There are places in Bali...

"There are places in Bali..."

We're heading to Bali in June, but I'm afraid any such places will have to be off the agenda. With apologies to Groucho, "I wouldn't want to join any club that would have me as a member".

DH & I went to a party last year and I swear to god, this couple tried to get us to swing with them!! It was the creepiest feeling ever!

Not judging, just not for us. And yes, they still call it "swinging."

Not Hedonism (or is it Hedonism II) either, except for the 2nd and 3rd weeks of January when people in "the lifestyle" take over the place. So I'm told.

In downtown New Orleans, there's a place called Colette which advertises itself as a "European couples club" where folks can "act out their desires." You may want to check it out. I've not been personally but work down the street so I've passed by it a few hundred times!

I cannot believe I have anything to share on this topic, but had a conversation last night with the mom of a DJ at a local Swingers Club.

I learned last night, that one does not just walk into the club, but must fill out an application to the private club and the application asks quite a bit of information.

My best guess would be to contact your nearest swingers club, or as sistahlou says, try another forum. I would imagine there is a network.

Does anyone remember the link someone provided on this board to pictures of a clothing optional travel club? The pictures of the members in their birthday suits on the chartered plane elicited quite a few comments

One of my Tampa aerobics instructors went up to AA's Paradise Lakes to lead a few classes.....ewwwww...and people here worry about bedspreads! LOL Think of those mats. Anyway...the aerobics class was not a pretty picture she says. Most everyone was "up there" in age. It's a clothing optional place, and she opted in. Her class did wear shoes...Lawsy, cover those feet!!

starrsville, I'd be curious as to whether they do blood work before they let people in. Who would trust what someone would write on an application?

OO, thanks for an early morning chuckle!

When I lived in Chicago, northwest indiana had a reputation for swingers. Don't know if it was true or not. You might want to check into the Hammond Howard Johnsons and see if you get lucky.

Back in the olden days, "swingers" around this area implied that you might be looking for some wife swapping. However, we are on the east coast, maybe the west coast is different

If that's what you want, remember things like blackmail and AIDS.

Still true today, aileen.

When we lived in the Seattle suburbs, a friend was telling me about some people we both knew and she told me they were swingers. Now this was just 3 years ago. I am too naive and thought she meant that these people just liked to party a lot. She had to explain it to me, lol! I had never heard of that before, and so had to tell DH about it. He was clueless too. Being naive can be a good thing

The conversation was very interesting last night. Regulars were telling the DJ that they couldn't be there for over the Christmas weekend because they had family coming in, church activities, etc. A little bit of a disconnect. You hear these are well-established, "normal" family folks with "normal" routines - but it's hard for me to connect the dots.

There's a place in the Mayan Riviera called Desire that's a "lifestyle resort". I like to read the reviews on tripadvisor for fun...the place sounds like a big orgy.

I knew a couple who were swingers in Dallas about 10 years ago. There were two clubs - the San Souci which was near where we lived - and another at the end of Routh St, but don't know it's name. Anyway...this couple had a baby that didn't look like either of them...I never had the guts to ask.

Ha Ha
Cargillman wrote this yesterday:

"Nothing against Dallas, but like many major metropolitans in the south and west, there is about enough interesting stuff to keep you busy for a couple days."

Guess you might change your mind if you could find the lifestyles clubs. LOL!!

"this couple had a baby that didn't look like either of them...I never had the guts to ask."

LOL!!

I wouldn't ask either.

starrsville--The couple that my friend was telling me about...they were den leaders in our Cub Scouts. My husband really didn't want to know since he was the asst. cubmaster, lol!

Cargillman
To say I am shocked would be to put it mildly. I know I am judging, but I just always figured all our long time posters were morally upright people. Surprise, surprise. This is the first post ever that has caused me nausea.

nudist resorts and "wife swapping" or "swinging" are NOT the same thing! not even close!!

Wow... I don't know what I'm more shocked about... that this was posted, or that it has the amount of replies that it does.

There have got to be other forums where this could be addressed. True, going to a resort away from home is travel, but this group won't be able to give you very many specifics.

I've heard that "swinging" is alive and well, just concealed very well these days. There are all kinds of subcultures in this great country that would surprise all of us, I'm guessing.

Er, what's a "morally upright" person? Are you going to vet all of us, cd, to see if we fulfill the standard?

I have a pretty good friend who "swings"... he and his wife have been married for 15 years and are very happy. He has never once suggested that we get involved in it... in fact, if it wasn't for a few deeper discussion we've had while fishing, etc., I wouldn't even be aware of his lifestyle. My point it that not everyone who does this stuff is some slimy weirdo.

I know that he and his wife don't go to "resorts" or random "clubs", but take part in their lifestyle through a tighter network of local, trusted acquaintances. So maybe your best bet is something right in your own region.

With that said, yes, a weird thing to see posted on Fodors.

Can I change my thoughts?!?!?

This is the perfect forum for this inquiry.

Laughed my akahine off! Morally upright or uptight? LOL

Morally upright? Oh, I don't know, marriage vow's?

We have about a 50% divorce rate in this country.

Is consensual intimate experimentation with other, consenting couple really worse that the high number of people who secretly cheat on their spouses?

We think that maintaining a healthy marriage is the priority. There are different ways to do that. Different strokes for different folks.

If, in 40 years, we're old and wrinkly but still happily married, but that "vow obeying" couple is long divorced, who is worse off?

Nobody said divorce or cheating is ok and swinging is not. All are forbidden by marriage vows.

Out of curiosity, where in a typical marriage vow does it say you can't engage in a "swinging" lifestyle where both partners consent to the behavior? Cheating and lying are something entirely different.

"different stroked for different folks"

yer killin' me here!

the problem here is that you will be with strangers, not friends. I worked for years in a GYN practice. It's very embarrassing when a person has to come in with a new case of herpes, venereal warts or some of the other STDs, some of which have to be reported to the health department. They were always advised to contact any partner to warn them to be checked out.

If you aren't aware of all the goodies that can be picked up in the "swinging" scene, maybe you should do some reading on STDs.

Stick with the people you know. It might be safer. But hey! You want to take that kind of chance just to try for a happier marriage, be our guest.
The real danger might be that one partner finds out just how lousy the other is in bed.

Just a question here. When two husbands and two wives swap partners it's always called "wife swapping". I've never heard of "husband swapping". Why is that? Is it because it is the woman only who is the sex object?

Andrew
'And forsaking all others, be faithful only to [him/her] so long as you both shall live?"

Damn, I made my marital wedding vows many years ago, yet I am faithful to many in my life..who knew? I'm so ashamed````````````~~

I really didn't start this thread to have a moral discussion. However, it bugs me when people need to take my question and turn it into this sermon.

To those of you who have been completely faithful to your spouse, in body and in mind, and you have a sustained, healthy marriage, I say great job!

But I still maintain that the couple who jointly decides to "bend" one portion of the wedding vow is more honorable than the couple who suddenly decides one day that the vows in total no longer apply and get divorced. Instead of determining if a portion of the wedding vow requires flexibility for their situation, they simply say "oops... about those vows... didn't really mean any of it, especially that "death due us part" portion. they no longer apply"

I think we've decided on Bali. Thanks for the recommendation, whoever made it. WE're getting out of the country too. We're excited about the trip.

Safe journey -
and bring lots of safes!
hehehehehhehe

cd - I just looked up my wedding vows - still have the doc saved on my computer. They didn't include that bit and I suspect that many other's didn't either. Not everyone says the same canned set of vows. I do think that as long as both husband and wife agree to what ever activities they are engaging in, then fine - whatever their vows said.

cd, "'And forsaking all others, be faithful only to [him/her] so long as you both shall live" could be interpretted in different ways. I'd say that means don't cheat on your spouse - period - and be devoted to this one person. "Swinging" is not cheating if both people consent to it. I'm guessing most swingers would tell you their emotional and financial bonds are still between the husband and wife and not anyone else.

Not that I wish to condone "swinging" - rather I wish to speak out against judging other people. While I may find certain activities disgusting, if they occur between consenting adults, it's really not my business, and I certainly don't judge them for it.

Andrew
I really don't think there's much of a difference between my judgement and my opinion. In my judgement, swinging is not a moral activity, in my judgement, sex and love are pardners and once marriage vows are taken, restricted to marriage between one man and one women (although I do think that should be changed to same sex lovers also) Anyway, it doesn't matter what my judgement or opinion is, it's not going to change a thing. Those who want to swing will do so. I still find it distrubing and not understandable.

I know that everyone does everything differently in their relationships and I see your angle on being up front with each other about swinging versus just cheating. But all of that aside how do you draw the line between emotional intimacy and sex? In my opinion of marriage my vows are to be faithful emotionally as well as physically. Just wondering how swingers can just comb out the intimacy aspect?

Will there be a trip report?

Sally,

I'm ready to p-- my pants! LOL!

cd, you have every right to find any sort of behavior "not understandable" and even "disturbing." But why is it not a "moral activity" for other people to engage in? I mean, if you find it personally immoral, don't do it - but why do you pass on this judgement of other people?

See, you mention also that you think same sex marriage would be OK with you and presumably, moral. Many others believe that these sort of relationships are "immoral" and "disturbing." How do you feel when people tell you that same sex relationships are immoral? No one can be a moral barometer for these sorts of issues, beyond their own behavior. Everyone's got a different take on what's "moral" - who's right? My view is: no one is "right" and we shouldn't bother judging other people's consensual adult behavior, whether we find it "disturbing" or not.

touchdown!

Can't wait for the halftime entertainment!

So Andrew, you don't see your opinions as personal judgements? You stated that you find certain activities disgusting, This is your opinion but is this not also a judgement?

I like ilovetulips comment that her marriage vows of faithfulness is both physical and emotional. That is how I view vows. I view sex as love and not just an activity whether gay or straight.

Andrew
Thanks for the conversation. I have liked taking with you. However, it is now time to take in a movie marathron with DH. Have a good evening and I appreciate your views.

Oh BTW Sally, I love the trip report comment. Thanks for making me laugh!

Lots of thoughts on this one. I watched, from the side, when couples tried "swinging" in the seventies. It was called "open marriage" then. "Open marriage" did not last long as it did not work too well. Few of the marriages held together, in the longrun.

Neopatrick hit the nail on the head, when he asked why it isn't called "husband swapping," instead of "wife swapping." Most of the "open marriages" were initiated by the husband, and the wife went along to save the marriage, acting as if she thought it was a swell idea. Honestly, sometimes I thought it was like watching some alpha gorilla staking out territory.

Ultimately, it gets complicated and someone got hurt. Unless you are very special, of course.

Well now, THIS is interesting!

I will not offer any commentary other than these two quotes...

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt." -Mark Twain

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire

I never thought I would be responding to a Swingers post but had to give this thougt. I wonder how many couples who get into this are BOTH really wanting to do it and how many where one wants to and the partner goes along to save the marriage. Not much saving to do in my opinion but I know lots of people who do things they don't agree with just to please another person.

"Will there be a trip report?"

For once, please spare us the details about the "yummy foods" and the "amuse boche" and the "sculptured presentation" of the eats, OK?

cd, I don't see my opinions as personal judgements about people. Just because I might see what people do as disgusting to ME (if I were doing it) doesn't mean I look down up on them as people necessarily.

I have a couple of friends, a married couple, who got into the swinging lifestyle a few years ago. (She once asked me if I wanted to get into their club with her - as single men can't get in by themselves; I politely declined.) Who am I to judge what makes them happy? Why should I look at what they do as "immoral" even though I don't particularly like it? I have no right to.

Two people's marriage vows are between them. PERIOD. They aren't for you to interpret and then tell them that what they are doing is immoral, because of the way you've interpretted their vows.

How would you like someone telling YOU that what you are doing is wrong, because THEY see it as somehow immoral according to THEIR interprettation of YOUR wedding vows? No doubt you would tell them to mind their own business, as you well should.

OK, I believe that horse died sometime this afternoon, Andrew. Let's let it rest in peace!

My wife still has problems with our marriage vows. I thought she was supposed to "honor and obey," but she insists -- NO OBEY. I hope I at least got the honor thing correct.

Have fun, brave Cargillman.

Gee, Budman. My husband and I have the honor and obey thing down pat in our marriage. I honor and he obeys. Works like a charm!

I have been following this thread and have gotten several good laughs from it!!
After reading pepper131 comment, I went to Trip Advisor and read the trip reports for Desire Resort in the Riviera May. It really does sound like just what you are looking for.

That should say Riviera Maya.

I hate to show my naiveté but is he looking for one of those places where the two men go off by themselves and the two women do likewise ?

Also when did paisley shirts , checked pants and sideburns go out of style ?

Sunshinesue, ain't it the truth. LOL

have not attended, but I hear it is bery upscale,and they cater to tourist.

http://www.miamivelvetswing.com/index3.html

I wonder what differences there are between swinging and serial divorce. When children are involved, I would say that serial divorce is worse. I wonder if Tim Russert would ever put that question to John McCain, Rudy Guiliani or Newt Gingrich?

The company of which I am a minor partner once used to do business with a swinging club two blocks from the White House but the establishment has been out of business for twenty-five years. Social diseases, AIDS and the internet seems to have put a damper on swingers clubs. They seem to have gone the way of the record player, mah jong and the top hat.

Never been to one...no real desire to do so, but if your in "the loop" and I do not mean the BELTWAY, they are more popular than ever, and have morphed there way into being some of the most posh clubs in the trendy areas.

I've found that people who judge others and exagerate claims...are typically the ones you will find tied up on a hotel room bed with a midget bouncing on the mattress wearing a red cowboy hat and leading a pig on a leather leash with lipstick and a pink bonnet on!

By the way GeorgeW, mah jong is also still quite popular. They even have mah jong cruise trips!!!!

Yeah but careful how you handle the mah jong pieces.....the stuff you can get from that!

The Fodor's site is not only good for travel but it is a good place to learn. I thought Mah Jong went out with the Charleston, Rudolph Valentino and Ruth Etting. But I am dating meself. Thanks schmerl!

Unlike one spouse having an affair..at least they are both doing this together.

LOL - I had to go to that Velvet Club link to see if it was for real. They sure have some pictures of beautiful people on the website. I'm guessing that the real people inside aren't quite so attractive!!

I looked at that site too, my my. Click on "newbies" for a very graphic desciption of what "can happen" inside.

I still don't get how people get around the STD problem, especially HPV - it is very very contagious!

Do you think it is any safer picking up someone at a bar or party?

And as for the pictues...anyone who is from Miami knows that no matter what club, lounge, event you go to, there will be an overabundance of beautiful people there partying. Besides that...there is a very very thin line between that club...and what goes on every night in Miami regular clubs!

I think the longevity of this forum kind of speaks for itself in terms of human nature's lust hiding just behind the brain cortex...no matter what someone says for or against the subject...hmm.

Richard, this post originated in 2007. Presumably, the questioner has either found a resort or moved on.

I'd like an update from Cargillman. Did they ever make it to Bali?

Not to mention that sex of any variety on this website is only a fond memory for our elderly posters...

let's concentrate on assisted living...

this is richard's one and only post... it's nice attempt to appear oh-so-conversational, but pretty clear it's advertising. I won't triangle you -- but enjoy your five clickthroughs while they last : )

I liked this thread originally, so am sort of glad you topped it! (And now I am too!)

yes clearly richard is advertising but it seems harmless enough. I could be very wrong but I don't think the Fodorite community is a hotbed of swingers. I'm glad it was topped too. What a crazy thread.

Would be an interesting TR read.

I am amazed at the amount of comments this got, and that colduphere had nothing to say. I am also amazed at the civility shown between cd and Andrew, who had very different views on the subject........that almost never happens!!!

I'm interested in the trip report as well........

and can you please post some photos too. lol

<<I am amazed at the amount of comments this got, and that colduphere had nothing to say.>>

I think it was before cold's time on Fodors unless... cold's first screenname was Cargillman. Could it be?

"Swinger" (the word and concept) strikes me to be about as dated and appealing as "wino."

HTTY

"I'm interested in the trip report as well..."

Yeah! Where's the trip report. Help someone out and they never come back to say thanks or whether they had to get blood work to join up.

(It was a little shocking to see L84SKY posting here, that was me)

Tom my experience with swapping was not positive so I stayed from this thread. Too many bad memories.

When two husbands and two wives swap partners it's always called "wife swapping". I've never heard of "husband swapping". Why is that? Is it because it is the woman only who is the sex object?

Just so you know, it's called a "full swap", not a wife swap.

Wait a minute! You mean this thread is not about swing dancing? Jeesh.