kate

I'm a smoker (no lectures please - I'm european, it's compulsory) and would like to know the policy of bars and restaurants. Is it true that all restaurants are no-smoking? What about bars? And can anyone recommend some fantastic (atmospheric/hip) restaurants and bars I should visit, money no object?

AC

Hi Kate:
Most NYC restaurants have asmoking and non smoking scetion depending on the size of the restaurant and how many people it seats. You can smoke in the bar area though. Seems strange but true. No smoking in all public buildings at all!. You will see people standing in doorways all over town taking a few puffs and running inside.
Welcome to NYC!

Caitlin

Smoking is permitted in bar areas if they are x feet from dining areas (don't remember how many), which means yes in some places, no in others, depending on the bar location. There are no "smoking sections" in dining areas--it's off limits there, period. Some restauarants have smoke-free policies that include the bar area. Some have entirely separate smoking rooms (mainly catering to cigar smokers). If you want to be able to smoke and eat, go to the smallest places you can find, because smoking is permitted in places with fewer than 35 seats, at the proprieter's discretion, of course. There are also some places where the management completely tolerates smoking even when it's in violation of the city policy, particularly those with a large expat European clientele. All bars, pubs, and clubs allow smoking. Most money-no-object restaurants have smoke-free policies, I believe; those don't necessarily coincide with hip! A couple of current very-hip places are Lotus, Tao, and even Pastis still.

Caitlin

Smoking is permitted in bar areas if they are x feet from dining areas (don't remember how many), which means yes in some places, no in others, depending on the bar location. There are no "smoking sections" in dining areas--it's off limits there, period. Some restauarants have smoke-free policies that include the bar area. Some have entirely separate smoking rooms (mainly catering to cigar smokers). If you want to be able to smoke and eat, go to the smallest places you can find, because smoking is permitted in places with fewer than 35 seats, at the proprieter's discretion, of course. There are also some places where the management completely tolerates smoking even when it's in violation of the city policy, particularly those with a large expat European clientele. All bars, pubs, and clubs allow smoking. Most money-no-object restaurants have smoke-free policies, I believe; those don't necessarily coincide with hip! A couple of current very-hip places are Lotus, Tao, and even Pastis still. These are restaurants with a big bar scene. Just about anywhere on Central Park South is packed these days, though not necessarily the most atmospheric.

coco

There are really quite a few restaurants that have smoking areas, all across the spectrum. Also, if you are coming during warm weather, almost all the sidewalk cafes/patios allow smoking. All bars are all-smoking, all the time!

foodienyc

there are more than a few upper east side restaurants where managers, etc do not mind if people smoke - le charlot, ferrier, sofia's (serafina) all come to mind. they all have great food and fun atmosphere.

howard

There is some misinformation on some of the above posts. Caitlin is absolutely correct in her comments! Those that permit smoking are violating the law and could get fined if caught. The under-35-patron size, as cited by Caitlin, is the exception.
Smoking is permitted in bars.

jhm

Kate, try Campbell Apartment -- smoking lounge and cigar lounge, and really cool place (look it up on www.nytoday.com). I'd also look at SushiSamba on South 7th Street, Brasserie on E. 53rd, Chez es Saada, Bubble Lounge (champagne bar -- I've never been) for "atmospheric/hip." When are you coming to NY?

coco

I will repeat that there are a lot of restaurants that have smoking sections, many of them larger than 35 seats. Some of them are adjacent to the bar (at Le Cirque 2000 the smoking section is near the bar and some of the best seats in the house especially for people-watching as the food is food wherever you eat it). Once you get to NY, it would be easy enough to call specific restaurants and ask. Three smoker-friendly places you might like are 1) Prune, on 1st street between 1st & 2nd Avs in the east village: this is a small place and most everyone smoking, very hip and lots of fun; 2) The Grange Hall at Barrow & Commerce Sts in west village: sorta high-end comfort foods in a very friendly setting; and 3) as mentioned by Caitlan, Pastis in the way-far west village/meat-packing district (that entire front room is smoking). If you are going for atmospheric/hip, you'll probably want to be downtown somewhere most of the time!

coco

PS: I see jhm's posted since I composed my last post and want to 2nd The Campbell Apartment. Also at Grand Central is Michael Jordan's--all of those booths and tables along the balcony overlooking the action below are smoking tables. (So-so for the food, but the portions are huge [is that the punchline to some old joke?] and the people-watching is, again, superb!

mother

Please Kate quite smoking. I asked you so many times. Your clothes smell, your breath is gross and your skin is not the way used to be. Please

kate

Mum, I told you, no lectures.

Thanks everyone else for very helpful replies. I'm coming over from London at the end of March for a few days and will definately follow your advice.

Interesting cultural difference - the smartest restaurants in London tend to be ENTIRELY smoking, with only chain restaurants and mid-priced having no-smoking restaurants. I think the attitude is - if you're paying that much money, then you're entitled to do what you want. I've heard many complaints from visiting americans.

howard

Then I guess we Americans are more civilized after all, since most of us value our health more! (PS: Kate, your logic is faulty, as that "do what you want" attitude doesn't take into account that most non-smokers do not want to be in a smoking environment.)

foodienyc

all of the above mentioned places are "hip" and some even serve very good food (!): sushi samba, pastis, lotus, prune. also, i am not arguing with the non-smoking LAW - understand perfectly well that there is, in fact, a law. all i am saying is that there are tons of places in nyc where the non-smoking/smoking-in-bars-only law is not followed to the letter.

kate

Howard, I was not rying to make out our policy is better than yours, mearly pointing out a cultural difference. Most europeans would see a more liberal attitude as more civilised - we don't like to be told what we can and can't do, basically, but that is purely opinion. I do appreciate that smoking affects the people around you. No one is more right or wrong.

jhm

Well...

I lived in London for two years and moved to NY last year. I'm not a rabid anti-smoker, but I have to admit that I really enjoy being able to go out to hip and trendy restaurants here without leaving smelling as though someone used my (hip and trendy?) clothes as a cigarette filter. Additionally, the problem with the logic of libertarian choice (as Howard pointed out) is that when I go to a trendy London restaurant, I can't often make the choice to NOT have smoke all around me. Therefore, my choice is either a) put up with people who like to smoke and eat or b) in London, just don't go out to restaurants. I enjoy the experience of going to new places and trying new foods, so I take option a), but not happily. Knowing people who got lung cancer from secondhand smoke inhalation (apparently the news about lung cancer hasn't gotten to Europe yet -- I'm being flip, but it's really amazing the extent to which people seem to just not care), it's not so easily the classical liberal choice that you state. I'd have to say NY is a lot better in that regard -- there are places to smoke, but it's not "in your face" and having a detrimental effect on your health without your consent, the way it is in London.

Didn't mean for there to be a lecture --just my own cultural comparison on this subject.

I'd probably also throw in recommendations for Balthazar and Bond Street Sushi as well...

Tommygirl

Was in NYC 2 months ago and saw many people smoking in bars and noticed smoking sections in nice restaurants. I believe the policy is similar to Chicago (non smoking sections are offered in each restaurants to keep everyone happy). The one state that may be tough for you is California....you can only smoke in outside tables (no indoor smoking in restaurants or bars) Enjoy your visit, I loved London!

kate

Don't worry, I was prepared to take some flack. Some subject matters are always gonna raise some hackles (god, you should check out the gay debate going on on the europe forum), but I am genuinely grateful for the mostly unsarcastic help.

jhm

No problem -- glad no hard feelings. Have a wonderful time in NY; if you haven't already, surf through www.zagat.com for more ideas...

rqf

The following was copied directly from the website of the NYC Department of Health.
Mayor Rudolph Giuliani signed the Smoke-Free Air Act into law on January 10, 1995. The law prohibits smoking in virtually all public places. The Smoke-Free Air Act took effect April 10, 1995. Below are the law's major provisions.

RESTAURANTS

Smoking is prohibited in the dining areas of all restaurants seating more than 35 people, and confines smoking to the bar area (see below), enclosed smoking
lounges serving only beverages and private functions. Restaurants with seating for 35 or fewer people are exempt.
BARS
1.Smoking is still permitted in stand-alone bars.
2.In restaurant bars, smoking is permitted if: The bar area is at least six feet from the indoor dining area or the bar area is separated by a solid floor-to-ceiling partition from the
indoordining area;
The smoking lounge and bar do not exceed 25 percent of the combined area of the dining, beverage service and lounge areas; The seating situated in the bar area where food service is offered is limited to: 1.(1) no more than 15 percent of the first 100 seats where food service is offered and (2) no more than 10 percent of any seats over 100 where food service is offered;
d. The smoking lounge and bar are not the sole indoor patron waiting areas.

The above is the law as written.