Rules of the Sidewalk-NYC

My favorite is the group of 5 or 6 that stops right in the middle of the sidewalk to take photos of one in front of something. But they don't - since there are too many other pedestrians. They just stand there clogging up the sidewalk interminably - waiting for a "celar shot".

If you must have a photo of Ethel in front of something either accept that there will be a lot of other people in it (we are NOT going to stand there for 5 minutes while you get the exact pose you want and focus) or go out and take it at 6 am when there are fewer people on the street.

Second, if you are going to ask questions about the subways do not mention color. Color is immaterial. You need to know either what train you want - A or C or 5. Or what line you want - Broadway local. Or what staion you want - Columbus Circle. Color means nothing to locals.

For tourists: If you would like not to be seen as a tourist when on the subway stand directly in the car door so that it is difficult for those entering or exiting - you'll be just like the locals. Or - if you are seated: Cross your legs and extend your toe out into the middle of the aisle so other passengers will have to dodge around your foot or get some of the mud on your shoe on their clothing.

A link to last year's thread:

http://www.fodors.com/community/united-states/rules-of-the-sidewalk.cfm

Also when entering or exiting subway stairwells, don't stop at the top, middle or the bottom of the stairs for any reason. Please move away from the stairwell and off to the side somewhere, so you are out of the way of stairwell traffic.

We just returned from NYC and, while walking around, I remarked to my husband that someone would probably be posting one of those "rules" posts again.

The people you're talking to/about a) won't see this, b) can't help themselves, and c) aren't aware or d) don't care.

LOL, these are so funny, but true.

The one time a police officer accused me of jay-walking, he was jay-walking with me. He thought he was funny. He was.

I say that life is too short for so many rules. Just do your own thing and forget about this thread!

I say that life is too short for so many rules. Just do your own thing and forget about this thread!

I hope you do not feel this way when you drive.

And I otherwise assume this is justifcation for engaging in many of these behaviors.

Tourists: Watch the traffic and not the Walk/Don't Walk signs.

The quickest way to get run over is to cross the street during the 'Walk' light without looking at traffic.

Hey, not every tourist is Crocodile Dundee

Signed,
suffering San Franciscan

The biggest risk crossing the street is people from outside the city to don;t understand that there is NO right turn on red. (Yes, I know, in most places you can turn right on red - but in NYC you can't.) (Local cab drivers, no matter how erratic they seem, will manage to avoid hitting people except in extremely rare circumstances - usually when hit by another car.)

I've nearly been hit several times by clueless drivers from out os state who

1) turn right directly through a red light

2) seem to think that all those pedestrians in front of them will avoid being hit by their car (pedestrians have an absolute right of way)

The difference is when I drive, I follow a set of government-enacted rules.
The "rules" here (and I use the word "rules" very loosely) are on the main just wishes of some that the masses would conform to a certain set of actions (or non-actions). Perhaps it is the word "rules" that I object to.
Hell, I'll be the first to admit that there are a lot of good SUGGESTIONS here!

LOL! Thanks for this thread, Adu. It brought a smile to my face, showing me that some things just never change. Thanks!

BTW, I still vote with HowardR.

Hey, not every tourist is Crocodile Dundee

He was polite, considerate, pleasant, and fictional.

There seems to be a considerable increase in the amount of inconsiderate boobs with wires coming out of their ears and inanities from their mouths. At first it seemed linited to younger people and self-important business types but now it is every age and group.

There seems to be a considerable increase in the amount of inconsiderate boobs with wires coming out of their ears and inanities from their mouths. At first it seemed linited to younger people and self-important business types but now it is every age and group

Amen Adu! And they yell into the phone as if they are using two cans connected with string to communicate. That, and my pet peeve is the Bluetooth...all I see is Lilly Tomlin with her headset..."one ringy dingy.."

If you need information - be selfish. YOU are the guest -- Start all questions with a statement that begins with the words I or WE have to need to want to are trying to do X. If you have a time constraint, say so. New Yorkers love you but we only answer 1 question and then we say, Have a Nice Day...To make the most out of your opportunity.

Way too many stories to illustrate why this is important - (If/when I'm not busy I often play 20 questions with tourists but one day...) I had a group at the SI Ferry Terminal in Manhattan and I was busy and a stranger came up and said "Where do I pay for this?" (NOTE - I is the 3rd word here) - I said, you don't - it's free - Have a nice day.

As we left the terminal in SI - The same person came up and said - How come I'm not at the Statue of Liberty and I had to say - because you didn't ask that question 1/2 an hour ago.

I do alot of walking, cycling, running, rollerblading and driving in NY - no Vespa for me.

No one group is worse than the other. Each group can be as badly behaved, sinister and awful as the next.

Very funny, thanks for a good laugh! The section on Cell-ibites is so true for everywhere in America!

"• Do not ride your bike down the street. I know bikers think they are elevated liv e forms but pedestrians may disagree"

Maybe you meant, down the sidewalk? Can I add, that the bike lanes are the few feet of safety that cyclists are allowed in this city. Please, don't use the bike lane as a sidewalk. If you must, then please get out of the way when you hear a bell or someone yelling "bike behind you get out of the bike lane".

Don't sit on a folding chaise lounge in the middle of Broadway.

very funny....guess these rules apply to many cities!

Am seriously thinking that New Yorkers are one bunch of crazy people - how the hell will a Londoner like me be able to control all of my bad habits - ie. walking on the left, looking left when I cross the road, standing back from the window so that I can actually see more that the square inch in front of my nose.

As for the jaywalking and sticking my toes out into the aisle on the subway - I've got those ones down pat after years of leaving the pub late on a Friday night and skidding across the road before sprawling out on the tube on my way home.
Can't wait to get to NYC next month, if only to see how many of these "rules of the NYC Sidewalk" I manage to break in the first few days -- reckon that it may be close to all!

Don't sit on a folding chaise lounge in the middle of Broadway.

These people look like they are waiting to be hit by a truck. I have lived in NYC all my life and would just think I am going to get killed when the light changes.

Hi Aduchamp1, apart from the walking to the right, much of your post could go for Sydney as well

What?! You don't like Bloomberg Beach either?!

My biggest AHHHHHHHH, with tourists, is that they walk as slowly or slower along the avenues when the rest of us are trying to get somewhere.

I've often told people they were going to get runover by walking that slowly. We have lots of patience with tourists, except when they are IN THE WAY!!

I can only wonder how some of my fellow New Yorkers on this thread act when they are tourists in, say, another major tourist capital such as Paris or Rome! Do they conform to the "rules" in those cities?

I can only wonder how some of my fellow New Yorkers on this thread act when they are tourists in, say, another major tourist capital such as Paris or Rome! Do they conform to the "rules" in those cities?

We have been traveling aborad for almost forty years and I hope the answer is yes. I am sure their have been breachs of etiquette, but we try to be good guests.

But, I bet you stopped in the middle of the sidewalk and were awestruck the first time you saw the Eiffel Tower! And, c'mon, fess up, didn't you also stop short at that moment?

I can only wonder how some of my fellow New Yorkers on this thread act when they are tourists in, say, another major tourist capital such as Paris or Rome! Do they conform to the "rules" in those cities?

YES. And when in other cities I retain my understanding of the terms "lunch hour" and "rush hour" and I am considerate of those trying to live their lives around me.

But, I bet you stopped in the middle of the sidewalk and were awestruck the first time you saw the Eiffel Tower! And, c'mon, fess up, didn't you also stop short at that moment

At least for me, you picked the wrong tourist attraction. We have been to Paris on a number of occasions and have yet to visit it.

Yes, when we are tourists we stop to look, that is what a tourist does, but I hope I have kept the number of people who trip over me to a minimum.

There is a double standard here. Americans are often criticized for their behavior overseas. But then many foreigners do not inquire as what our customs are.

By the way, many times I will stop and ask tourists if they need help. For those who are super critical "how do you know they are tourists?" The guide books and maps are the tip offs. 99% are appreciative, the other 1% I scare to death.

"I can only wonder how some of my fellow New Yorkers on this thread act when they are tourists in, say, another major tourist capital such as Paris or Rome! Do they conform to the "rules" in those cities?"

I've been going to Paris almost every year for the last 15 years or so and I have to say that there are definitely Rules (note the capital "R") over there and I don't have a problem abiding by them. Comes with the territory.

It's not necessarily European, or other foreign tourists. It could be American tourists, and often enough, fellow NYers.

"There is a double standard here. Americans are often criticized for their behavior overseas. But then many foreigners do not inquire as what our customs are."
I don't see any double standard. They criticize us, and we criticize them......as this thread certainly illustrates.

"Yes, when we are tourists we stop to look, that is what a tourist does, but I hope I have kept the number of people who trip over me to a minimum."
That's exactly my point. Yes, when you're a tourist you stop and look. Perhaps you think too many stop and look too often, and that very well may be the case. But, when the shoe is on the other foot (i.e., when it's a New Yorker in non-New Yorker territory) I'm sure many of "us" stop and look too often to the dissatisfaction of those locals. As you said, it's the nature of the beast. So, give them a little slack!!!

And, I repeat, what rules for tourists are we talking about? I know of no official set rules that include the about listings. Good suggestions and guidelines? Yes. Rules? No!

PS: When we were in Paris for two weeks, I do not recall any officials set of Rules (note the capital R) that we had to follow.

PS: When we were in Paris for two weeks, I do not recall any officials set of Rules (note the capital R) that we had to follow.

You were not paying attention. For example, there are rituals as to how to shop and what to say.

Aduchamp1, you lost me there. Please explain "...there are rituals as to how to shop and what to say."

For example:

When you enter a store, you should say Bon Jour Madame (or whomever it may be). It is the secret handshake for polite service. Then you should not touch the mercandise unless you ask, since it is also impolite to touch another possessions. And never raise your voice above a normal conversation. And before requesting something a s'il vous plait is always helpful.

Bu

These are my rules for general living, not just shopping in Paris.

Well I've raveled all over and try to follow these rules everywhere - unless it's someplace with different rules (like where to stand on the escalator in the tube). It's a function of being aware of your surroundings - as opposed to oblivious as so many tourists seem to be.

As for greeting someone in a shop in NYC - usualy there is no one to greet - since they are serving other customers already. And when you get to the counter to pay all they want is the credit card - not a lot of chitchat. You can say good mornng if yuo want - but a lot of times wil jut get a stare back. The Parisian example is fine if you have a lot of staff and relatively few customers. When the situation is the other way around - it's a waste of everyone's time - and will aggravate those waiting their turn to be served.

It does not take any extra time for people to say please and thank you during a transaction. In any city.

I agree with Dohlice, and I think it might be the end of civilization if people stop saying please and thank you because it will "aggravate those waiting their turn to be served"!

If you are in Central Park, stay on the sidewalk if at all possible. Do not walk shoulder to shoulder, 3-4 across abreast on the street.

People are clueless - they walk well off the side on the street in CP and a bunch of rollerbladers or cyclists pass them by at 20+ mph and they still don't get on the side. Note: Bicycles do not stop on a dime from 25 mph, without serious damage to cyclist.

During a public NYRRC or other running race, do not dash across to the other side as the runners pass. I have had so many close calls.

Add my agreement to the sentiments of the last two posters. Again, I'd hardly call the Parisian shopping example a Rule (with a capital "R"), but rather an example of good manners, which I try to use no matter where I am!

Add my agreement to the sentiments of the last two posters. Again, I'd hardly call the Parisian shopping example a Rule (with a capital "R"), but rather an example of good manners, which I try to use no matter where I am!

It is more than manners in Paris, it is the custom, since you are so hung up on the word. It is an engrained part of their culture.

There is world of difference between a "rule" and a "custom"! If that means I am "so hung up" on the word, so be it! Meanwhile, back to New York, how about a little about our customs and a lot less about the ersatz rules.

I think the answer to ..people who are in other countries behaving differently would be that wherever people go , they do the same thing.
So if a NYer knows how to walk down the street, I imagine he can do it in a different city without too much trouble.

We live in Buenos Aires.
People walk down the street like NYers... fast. They walk around people who are slow, they walk on your heels if they can't get around you and they will walk out in to the street to go around a couple holding hands or with a dog or baby .. they never ever say anything and they never give dirty looks...
I read these rules a long time ago, here on Fodors.. and I think that NY is no different than Paris or London or Italy... it is the people and how they handle themselves.

You can write all the rules you want, some of which are commonsense, some of which would be nice if they worked, and some of which are just grouchy.

But the people who break all your rules have but one rule themselves: "you aren't the boss of me."

For cryin out loud, Howard, this is not a six grade school yard deabte on is it a rule if your mommy doesn't use the word rule.

When someone is a ruler of a country do you disqualify him becasue he is more than 12 inches tall?

But the people who break all your rules have but one rule themselves: "you aren't the boss of me."

Yes and they are uusally the first to act indignant when you bump into them while they have their down changubg their tune.

Oooooooh, did I hit a nerve?

No one is saying not to say please or thank you. That's obvioiusly goo manners everywhere.

But in a Parisian shop - it's not please or thank you. When you enter you greet the staff - good morning whoever. Isn't it a lovely day? I would like to look at some whatevers (no just pawing through the merchandise to see what you want). It can't work the same in NYC because there is no staff to show you whatevers - unless you're in an extremely expensive boutique.

When store staff is limited and customers are many (as in standing in line to pay) chitchatting with the staff is rude - not polite - ad you are holding up several other people. I realize this may no seem right to people from a small town where everything moves more slowly - but if it were done any other way the city would come to a grinding halt (except for those very upscale places where you pay a lot extra for more service and time). (I'd love to see a customer in the Lord & Taylor shoe department - where 40 customers are fighting over 6 clerks - try to start up a conversation. there would be a riot.)

You've totally missed my point, which is, in plain terms: There are no rules to be broken in the context of this thread!
There are guidelines and suggestions and advice and, yes, customs.....but no rules.

I think some people are getting way hung up on words and need to have a little more levity and humor in their outlook on life. That's my RULE (with a capital "RULE").

Howard - the rule is - anyone can have their own definition of what a rule is.

Ah, YOUR own rules! And, on that note, I give up!

The important thing is that tourists and sidewalk blockers in any city (not just NY) think that there are rules that must be obeyed. I had to walk through Times Square at 5pm yesterday and was ready to start handing out citations to everyone (and there were many) who was breaking the rules.
Additonal new rules for New Yorkers: if you are over the age of 10, you are too old for a Dennis the Menace-style scooter. And all you Conde Nast fashionistas - carry the Manolos and put them on when you get to the office! You are holding up everyone trying to get up or down the subway stairs.

No self-respecting Conde Naster would be caught dead *carrying* their Manolos (or Louboutins).

I know, Michelle. But as long as I'm making up rules, I figured I might as well throw that one in there. Maybe I'll just require that they take the elevator at Times Square and stay away from the stairs.

Good lord, do some of you really think people are that stupid? That they'd go into the shoe section at Saks in NYC on a busy day and try to make idle conversation with the sales accociates? Please, this thread has gone off the rails.

If it pains you so much to live in a city where there's lots of tourism, where people go to museums and take trolley and bus tours, etc., maybe it's time to move. To Detroit. Get over yourselves.

"I'd love to see a customer in the Lord & Taylor shoe department - where 40 customers are fighting over 6 clerks - try to start up a conversation. there would be a riot"

I think I'd rather enjoy seeing a female shoe riot in NYC (I'm assuming nytraveler was referring to the women's shoe dept.). And to think I could start one just by engaging in some idle chit-chat!

Women in Manolos don't either wear or carry them up and down subway steps. they take cabs - if not limos. It's the women in the faux manolos that are holding you up. And agreed - if shoes are so high - or tight - that you can't get up or down stairs in normal speed (NOT running) then wear flats to work and change there.

(And just think what happens if you're wearing stilettos when they call a fire drill - and you have to walk down 16 flights.)

Do not assume traffic will stop simply because you are in the crosswalk.

Hmm... limos - tacky. Cabs or car service. And with the way the publishing industry is doing, I wouldn't be surprosed to see Anna Wintour on the subway someday soon (but not Graydon Carter).

They get those Manolos for free - hence the subways.

“You are holding up everyone trying to get up or down the subway stairs.”

It is fun to watch them tip over, though. I only got to see it once – on Lexington Avenue. She just fell over in the street. She’s lucky she wasn’t killed.

We just returned from New York yesterday. It must be so stressful to try to live your normal life there...I was talking to some co-workers about that this morning....what if we wanted to walk 4 blocks to grab lunch and there were THOUSANDS of tourists hanging out on the streets? What if every sidewalk was wall to wall people every single day? I hate threads that impose "rules" on ones guests, but the number of tourists would make life in some parts of Manhattan quite difficult.

This came to mind today ... when we were walking on the sidewalk .. I heard a noise behind me and a man was driving his motorcycle on the sidewalk. only to the corner ... but jeez!!
So if people on bicycles annoy you on sidewalks in NYC .... be prepared for the sidewalks of Buenos Aires

<<<but the number of tourists would make life in some parts of Manhattan quite difficult.>>>

them's the breaks (you want to live in NY, you put up with tourists and their quirks, period)

I tell my friends that rule #1 in NYC is:
Green doesn't necessarily mean "Go" and red doesn't necessarily mean "Stop"

LOL

Right on wyatt92 and sf7307......And, just when I thought I was a man alone!

Oh~and if they say "rolex" or "Louis Vuitton" on Canal Street, follow them.

We were in the McDonalds on Times Square - so crowded we could hardly move - a guy actually came in saying "Coach purses, coach purses"! LOL.

I'd like to see your city taxes WITHOUT the tourist income.

If you go back to the original post there is only one section specifcially for tourists. But that is where the attention seems to lie.

There is a double standard for all these defensive tourists. If a NY'er visited their home town and told the local people to stick it because they were helping the economy, they would be considered doubly rude because it came from a NY'er. But for some reason it OK to express hostility to NY'ers.

At lunch hour the city sidewalks are clogged not just with hundreds of tourists, but also hundreds of workers going out to lunch. the difference is that many of the former are milling about clogging up the works, while the latter are walking quickly and purposively to where they're going (except for those guys selling all sorts of schmatas out of cardboard boxes).

Maybe this is the place to propound my theory about the Statue of Liberty and its place as a prime visiting site for tourists. OK: bear in mind that on any given day - especially weekdays - this town is crowded with folks who work here - what is it? = about a million come in from outer boros and neighboring states for their businesses and jobs let alone those who live right in town. It is a crowded city. And on top of that we have a gazillion tourists. So - the city fathers dreamed up a gimmick to get these visitors off the island. And so - all this hype about a visit to the Statue of Liberty. Hey - the real deal is to get a lot of tourists out of the way - and especially making them wait in those long lines for the SOL ferry and all.

Actually one of the vivid memories I have from Rome is a very loud group of New Yorkers in the Roman Forum:

Husband 1, while wielding video cam: HEY GINA, WHERE YOU AT?

Wives 1 and 2, subjects of video documentary, with arms raised: ROMA! ROMA! ROMA!

All the while, completely unconcerned with local walking customs. But purposive!

It's not just tourists, and it's not just NY - anyone who has to navigate through a busy city center gets frustrated by people gumming up the works.
No different than someone in a rural area driving to work, stuck behind someone puttering along at 20mph, and when you change lanes there's another one, and another one, etc.
Jroth - I like your theory.

"If a NY'er visited their home town and told the local people to stick it because they were helping the economy, they would be considered doubly rude because it came from a NY'er. But for some reason it OK to express hostility to NY'ers."

I guess because NY has a long history of arrogance towards the rest of the country. ie."fly over states"

If a NY'er visited their home town and told the local people to stick it because they were helping the economy, they would be considered doubly rude because it came from a NY'er. But for some reason it OK to express hostility to NY'ers."

I guess because NY has a long history of arrogance towards the rest of the country. ie."fly over states"

I have never used the term "fly over states" and yours is just an other justification for bad behavior.

I have many visited states on business and pleasure and I am very careful as what I say due to the type of stereotypes as stated above. I do not know many times people say, we expected you to be arrogant.

As I noted in other topics notes many visitors think they must be aggressive as a pre-emptive strike. If we were aggressive with one another, we would not have one of the lowest homicide rates in the country.

When the there 8 million people in a confined area, we must learn to live with one another.

8 million people in a confined area need to learn to live with the tourists or move to podunk where they would not have to be bothered with them impeding access to sidwalks

It is the home of 8 million people, it is just a tourist atttraction. It a world center for the arts, commerce, finance, communications, and education. Tourism is but one aspect.

I stop at least once a week and ask tourists if they need help. (Staring at a map is my clue.)

What is interesting as I noted, if visited you home town and acted like a rude guest would you happy just because I was dropping money?

I LOVE NYers!

re: <<I can only wonder how some of my fellow New Yorkers on this thread act when they are tourists in, say, another major tourist capital such as Paris or Rome! Do they conform to the "rules" in those cities?>>

Yes, 98% if the time I do. In the rare cases where I space out and do something stupid, I'm more than glad to get an impatient sigh, glare, or grumble from a local. Once, here in NY (I can't remember whether it was back in my tourist days or after moving here), I got distracted and made a sudden stop or turn in the middle of a crowded sidewalk and heard a woman mutter under her breath "are you stupid or what...", and I was SO HAPPY TO HEAR THAT, because it's exactly what I'd say too (she was right-- that was stupid)-- I immediately thought, "I love this place!"

<<And so - all this hype about a visit to the Statue of Liberty. Hey - the real deal is to get a lot of tourists out of the way - and especially making them wait in those long lines for the SOL ferry and all.>>

I always thought so about the lines to go up the Eiffel Tower.

Not sure what makes you think New Yorkers don;t travel. In fact we tend to travel - esp out of the country - more than people from most other areas - often since so many of us are FROM somewhere else. And as a rule we try not to do stupid things (which are similar but not identical in most large cities). and if I'm doing something the wrong way in terms of local habits I'm perfectly happy to be told about it.

What is stupid is people who go somewhere else and don't expect things to be different - or that they need to adapt to these differences..

I once went to New Jersey but I got scared and came right home.

By the way, if a Ny'er says to another to NY'er, "What are you stupid?" you are indicted, convicted, and sentenced. There is no appeal. You are stupid. If is worse if you do not know what you did. So the woman who said that to MFifi thought Mfifi was a Ny'er, because we would not say that to a visitor.

You can just imagine what they would post on Fodor's.

Quick survey.
Has any visitor ever been called "stupid" on the streets of NYC?

Has any NY'er not given you directions?

I can think of only one negative encounter with a New Yorker during very regular visits over the past, say 15 years (that is, as long as you exclude driving). I think it was actually during my family's first visit there, we were looking for bagels on a weekend morning, & had heard H & H was good. We found one of their stores somewhere way over on the west side in the 40's I think, but realized after we went in that it was take away only - no tables. We stood there for a few moments deciding what to do, and an older woman brushed past us grumbling "Out of towners.."

Oh yeah, there was also one time my trunk was relieved of its contents in Soho. Of course I can't prove that was a New Yorker.

"When NYers go on vacation outside NY (the few who do)"

The FEW who do?! Um, OK.