Moni

I have been living in New York for the past 6 years and have been thinking of relocating. I would love to hear suggestions for other great cities in the US. I love the cosmopolitanism of NY, but need someplace with a more sane cost of living. Important factors to me are: liberalism, diversity, good weather, and affordability. Any suggestions???

Daniel Williams

Oh Moni--

I do understand your dilemma. You want the liberalism and diversity of NYC but without the price tag. Sad but true, I think you won't find another in the USA with a fraction of the diversity and liberalism of NYC WITHOUT THE PRICE TAG. DC, Boston, San Francisco, LA, Seattle all have what you want in terms of diversity and liberalism, but with an equally insane price tag. Philadelphia and Chicago are compromises in price/diversity/liberalism/
affordability. But would you like the weather in Chicago? The relative lack of things to do/crime reputation in Philly? Vancouver and Toronto in Canada are also compromises; very diverse (TO as diverse as NY but different), cheaper than NYC, more liberal than NY even, but could you take the weather? Rainy in Vancouver, cold winters in TO. Montreal in Canada is the most liberal city I know of, diverse and affordable, lots to do, but the winters are doozies for sure. And can you handle the politics? I lived there 5 years and am smitten, but it's not for everyone. Baltimore in a way is a compromise too; more affordable than any other East Coast city, quite liberal, weather hot in summer (except this one!), similar to NY. But it's not NEARLY AS diverse as NY (although more than some parts of the country) and the crime reputation scare people away.

Some South, West and Midwest cities may be cheaper but do they have liberalism/diversity you're looking for? (Really nothing is like NYC...)

Portland, OR may be worth a look, but honestly I have no idea how much it costs to live there...

Moni

Dan, Dan, Dan--I laughed when I read your response. You have said exactly all the things that I have been thinking! I actually have been thinking a lot about Toronto and Vancouver, if only the weather was nicer! I realize that wherever I go, I will have to give up some of NYC's diversity. New York--can't live with it, can't live without it.

Have you heard anything about Tuscon? Seems liveable and hip, but I don't know much about it.

Thanks for your ideas!

xxx

Have you considered Atlanta?

michele

I would look into Austin and Washington DC. Both have better weather than New York (although hot in summer), both are more affordable than NYC (of course, almost everywhere in the world is more affordable than NYC, so that's not saying much), both are more liberal than most cities (South Austin is particularly funky; Washington DC has Dupont Circle and Adams Morgan). You won't find the diversity and cosmopolitanism that New York has, but both Austin and DC have some diversity (Austin has a large Hispanic population; DC has strong African-American, Latino, and Asian communities; and both have active gay communities). I would also consider Seattle and San Francisco but SF has the same $$ problems that NYC does. Chicago is fab except for the weather.

John

These are always tough questions because of the need to define one’s terms. “Affordable” and “good weather” are very subjective and personal things – I’d find the weather in DC or Austin or Tucson way too hot in summer for my liking, for example. On the same lines, if I lived in NYC (Manhattan, anyway) I probably wouldn’t dream of owning a car, and therefore could put that several hundred dollars a month of expense into housing, food, or other living expense items. Other cities may be “affordable” in terms of housing cost, but get they you in other areas, chiefly transport and traffic, cost of utilities, and the need to fly to NYC a couple of times a year for a culture fix. It all adds up.

That said, I do think you ought to look at Portland, Seattle, and maybe even some parts of the Bay area, like Oakland or Berkeley. Housing costs are absolutely not as high as in Manhattan (or even B’lyn), and in the cases of Portland and Seattle, a much more benign tax picture – no sales tax in Oregon, no state income tax in Washington. The weather is rainy in winter to about the same degree as it’s cold in NYC in winter; the summers are much nicer. All these cities are very diverse and liberal, and very focused on livability issues. All of them have nonstop flights to JFK daily.

If you’re a sun and heat lover, let me add Las Vegas to the list – no shortage of cultural events there, provided it’s your sort of culture, and still pretty affordable. Another place would be Honolulu. For smaller towns but close enough to urban pleasures, I’d suggest Portsmouth NH at the top of my fave list.

Have you considered Staten Island or Princeton?

BJ

How about moving to a desert island where they don't have internet so we don't have to hear about off topic my city is better than your city crap.

Have you tried dialing 1-800-THIS-IS-NOT-A-RELO-FORUM


PS. Princeton? Oh that's way cheaper, those liberal old money types will just kill you, and the diversity, well .....

ccc

Oh, buzz off, BJ! Relocation is about considering what different areas are like, which is also what travel is about, and travellers are likely to have useful information. At the very least, relocation involves traveling to a place to check it out. I don't see a enough difference between asking what a place is like for vacation and what it's like to live in to warrant your inhospitable nastiness. (Heckuva lot more relevant than rants about political correctness or causes of obesity.)

Moni, you're going to be comparing every place else to New York, I suspect, if your first priorities are culture and cosmopolitanism. You've got to prefer good weather (WashDC, San Fran), or nice location (San Fran, Seattle), or something else other than urban delights to make you be happier in a new city than you are in NYC.

For the record, I'm not a New Yorker and wouldn't live there on a bet, but I have lived other places and seen how former New Yorkers react. I'd put up with Boston's weather if I could have the culture there, and I'd love San Francisco if I had family there, and I'd love Chicago if it weren't stuck in the middle of the country -- etc.etc. The happiest former New Yorkers are those who have wanted a 100% change from city life of any kind -- to a small town, semi-rural area, lots of trees, grass, scenery.

My 2 cents

Reading between the lines of your posts, Moni, trust me that Tucson and Portland (either one) are most definitely not what you're looking for. Affordable? Most definitely. The 'cosmopolitanism' you've come to depend on to keep you plugged in will not be there. Nothing against these towns. They are much beloved by those who thrive on their attributes, like natural beauty, a more relaxed lifestyle, fast getaways into the open spaces and a smattering of cultural diversions. But I've watched plenty of NYC lovers try to adapt elsewhere. It's not always a pretty sight when they are sent to places like Chicago, Phoenix, SLC, St. Louis, etc.
The cities you mentioned are much more likely to satisfy IMO.

Cal

I believe that San Francisco is the only city that can offer you close to what you are loking for except it is not cheap. It also has excellent public transportation and good weather. I believe that the SF Bay area is somewhat cheaper than NYC but again it depends on what part of NYC we are comparing against.

There is an excellent relocation web site that has all kinds of calculators for comparing any city in the US and Canada for cost of living, crime, and many other items. It's URL is:

http://www.homefair.com/index.html

Brian in Atlanta

Moni, while those Canadian cities may have what you're looking for, please note that you will likely have to settle for a reduction in real earnings (lower wages, higher taxes) in most vocations.

Moni

Everyone, thanks so much for your responses and input. (Except for you and your nastiness, BJ.) I have actually lived in Chicago and Washington, DC and find them both much too conservative. Seems like the west coast may be the place to look. Thanks for your advice! Any other info is much appreciated!

Dawn

Moni,
I've lived in NY and Washington, DC most of my life, except for 5 years spent in Boston. I guess i'm confused by those posters who recommend moving to Washington based on the weather. There is virtually no difference between Washington DC and NYC when it comes to weather. Most of my family lives in NY and weather is something that is always talked about. I think you have to get further south, south of the bottom of VA, before weather patterns and temperatures really change. I love Boston, and of the 2 cities, it is the closest to NY, in terms of some of the factors you listed. Unfortunately, price wise, there isn't much of a difference. How about moving out to a suburb of one of these cities. I'm with John, Portsmouth NH, is a great place.

Daniel Williams

Moni-

Have you considered Europe or Australia?

Uh oh Moni, you're in trouble if you think DC is too conservative I've found that DC is, while not as liberal/diverse as NY, far more liberal and diverse than frankly just about anywhere other than NY (Boston or Philly are close) on the east coast. (Did you live in the city or the suburbs when you were in DC, because that can make a difference...)

Brian, it's true about the higher taxes and lower wages (certainly vs. NYC)...given the relatively high rent in Toronto and Vancouver, the advantage of those cities diminishes, quite true. The rent and cost of living in Montreal however is extremely inexpensive, so with even a moderately paying job, you can do UNBELIEVABLY well in terms of standard of living. I have friends who are earning the equivalent of US$25,000 there who can afford a gorgeous aportment 3-bedroom apt. with furnishings, access to great nightlife, shopping, boulangeries and restaurants. Of course then again there's the weather and no knowledge of the French language can make opportunities less forthcoming. While not AS diverse as NY, it's still VERY diverse and I would not hesitate to say, more liberal than NY.

Good luck Moni! If you find somewhere that fits your criteria, PLEEEAAASE let me know!

Dan.

Johnbo

Moni

The best city to live in is the one where you are.

Ron

Moni (sounds like a good name for a song):

MAYBE the West Coast--I've lived in the eastern half of the San Gabriel Valley for over twenty years, and I I've run into more rednecks (sorry) than in all the years combined growing up in West Virginia. Of course, that wouldn't be true in Pasadena, Burbank, L.A., et al, but then the affordability thing goes away. Then there's Orange County--a place to which a non-Republican needs a passport to enter. As for Tucson, my former company relocated there, and my ex-coworkers were ecstatic; they couldn't wait to escape what they considered the unbearable diversity of SoCal. Unbelievable.

The Bay Area maybe? Seattle? Wish I could help more.