Why are you relocating?

If you want input, pros and cons from other Fodorites, I'd think they would need that important information.

My sister lives in Baltimore, and I don't know how she can stand it. I find the people very unfriendly, and the crime is bad. There are lots of things to do there, but that is outweighed by the above factors, in my opinion. Plus, humidity!
We used to live in Portland, and visited Seattle frequently. I loved Seattle! So much natural beauty surrounding it. Of course, the winters are wet, but that's the only disadvantage I can think of!

I am somewhat familiar with both. My wife had a four month EPA tour-of-duty in Seattle and I visited her there for a week in July, 1995. Seattle has little rain in the summer and thus the weather is fine. However, for about eight months it often is rainy. Seattle is a little freaky for me but western Washington is one of the loveliest places on earth. The Seattle area itself has bad traffic problems and its economy has been weakened by the partial pullout of Boeing and the related decline of the American airplane industry, and by the decline in the computer/ IT etc. industry. Baltimore, which is but 40 miles from where I live, is a city in serious decline. Baltimore's old ethnic neighborhoods like Highlandtown (Greek, Polish, Italian, German, Jewish) are disintigrating into slums. There is some degree of gentrification like Fells Point but neighborhoods in renewal in Baltimore are rare. Driving through south Baltimore on Wilkins Avenue at ten in the morning recently, I saw mostly groups of loitering African-American men already drinking 24 oz. beers in paper bags, drug addicts stumbling aimlessly, and wretched white prostitutes flopped down on row-house steps taking a breather. Baltimore has more aimless loiterers than even Washington, DC. My old impression of Baltimore was one of Johnny Unitas, the Baltimore Colts and all the vital ethnic neighborhoods with a thousand corner bars. However, the Colts and Johnny Unitas are dead, and the ethnic neighborhoods and corner bars are dying. Yet the next governor of Maryland will most likely be the current mayor of Baltimore. Don't ask me why.

I have two sets of friends who have recently re-located to Baltimore from Seattle for work reasons. We all live in a downtown neighborhood that is being re-discovered. Both couples really like it here, although it is a change from what they're used to.

Sure you can find bad sections of the city, but you can also find really good sections of the city, too.

The current mayor, and possibly future governor's done a lot with the city, even though he doesn't have much money to work with. Any city has its problems, but if you stay in places that are safe and watch yourself, you generally don't have any problems.

I have lived in Baltimore for most of my life, and the only crime I've personally experienced is having someone take the bike off the rack on my car - but i shouldn't have left it locked there overnight. I just forgot!

The cost of living in Baltimore is significantly less than in a lot of cities, even Washington DC, just 40 miles down the road. Because Baltimore's far enough south, most of the people are friendly and helpful. There a lots of ethnic enclaves, and you can find great little restaurants from many cultures.

Good luck in your adventures moving!

I've only visited Baltimore briefly and the Seattle area on business maybe a dozen times, so I'll lend you what I've got.

If I worked in the Baltimore area and could afford it, I'd actually live in Annapolis. That is one great town. We have a kid living in Philadelphia and we usually visit by flying into Baltimore (cheaper flights) and that area between the two cities is just so congested. There are many attractions as far as things to do and see, but I don't think that I could live in that area myself. Weather-wise, the winters don't tend to be too bitter, but it's very hot and humid in the summer.

In Washington, I've spent most of my time in the Tacoma area. The Pacific Northwest is beautiful and there's a lot to see and do in that region. It's a little more relaxed, but to travel north and south, you basically have to take I-5 and that traffic is awful. If you don't have to commute in and out of Seattle, you would be better off. Weather-wise, the summers are nice with some rain, but mostly pleasant temperatures. From fall to spring, it rains most of the time and when it isn't raining, it looks like it will any minute. It doesn't get very cold in winter, maybe 40F, but it is damp.

Bottom-line? I would take Seattle, all things being equal.

most people who work in Baltimore do not live in the city (like any suburban area). We live in the suburbs of Baltimore (Howard County) and the schools are some of the best in the D.C. area. The average home sells for $250-$300 thousand and the commute to Baltimore is only about 15-20 minutes (depending on traffic). You are near enough to Washington DC which offers a great number of cultural events and sights. I would not choose to live inside the city of Baltimore, but I have always preferred suburban life. Your decision probable has a lot to do with whether you're married/single and whether you have children.

Yes, much of suburban Baltimore is liveable. I went to college with three brothers from blue-collar Essex and they would agree, however, that their close-in suburb has declined quite a bit since the 70s. Two of them now live in the Baltimore suburban sprawl- one in BelAir, Harford County and the other in Carroll County. Thirty years ago both counties were predominately agricultural. Today, the suburban tracts dominate. Baltimore outer-suburbs include Carroll County, Frederick County, Howard County, Anne Arundel County, Queen Anne's County (especially Kent Island), northern and eastern Baltimore County, Harford County and even parts of Cecil County.

To fairfax: What downtown neighborhoods would you recommend to a 20-something? Not me (I wish!) but one of my kids may be relocating there. Any good safe places that might be walking distance to the inner harbor? Thanks. (By the way, your screenname sounds like you should be from Virginia!)

Fells Point would be ideal if he can get a place cheap to rent. It's filled with bars and, in fact, my bachelor party was held at Fells. In fact, if one is determined enough, a fellow can drink at a dozen bars in a single afternoon. I know.

The biggest difference is that Baltimore is in the middle of the east coast metroplex - BosWash if you will, while Seattle is still the top left corner. Seattle has more access to natural beauty, outdoor sports, mountains, etc., while Baltimore has more access to other exciting big cities. Depends on your priorities and how you plan to survive. Unemployment in Washington State is second highest in the country, behind Oregon, and today Boeing announced they've decided to make it a little worse. Maybe we'll catch up to Oregon, whoopee.

I can only comment on Baltimore. I lived there from 1987-1989. Unlike the others who posted here I didn't find the people of this city and area unfriendly at all. The city is at an ideal location being close to the Chesapeake, Atlantic Ocean beaches, Philadelphia and D.C. with so very much to do.

sleepless, I'm not sure if Seattle is less expensive than San Francisco....

That would be Balamer, Hon.

Tell us what you are looking for in housing, neignborhood, recreation, etc. and we can give you better info, Hon.

Balamer is the only place in the world where your paramour is what you cut the grass with.

The essential difference here is really East vs. West, I think.

Despite Balmer's position in the Boston-Washington megalopolis, it actually is not that hard to get to rural and/or natural areas -- western Maryland is gorgeous, the Chesapeake and Delmarva are lovely. I agree that western Wash. state is spectacularly beautiful, but it's not really fair to claim that Maryland is all urbanized. It's not.

That said, "sleepless," if you are very sensitive to cultural differences and regional differences and you've grown up on the West Coast, you may find the East Coast hard to get used to -- and vice versa. East Coast is less laid back, more abrupt, more energized, more engaged in history -- things will look older to you, people may seem friendly but more uptight. West Coast is more laid back, more interested in the Great Outdoors than urban culture, has less ethnic consciousness (yes, I know you have Asian and indigenous groups as well as Hispanic groups that are identifiable, but "out east" it's much more important whether "your people" are Italian or Irish or Greek......), more open to experimentation but less compulsive about some kinds of things.

Those are, I absolutely admit, sweeping generalizations -- but I was trying to focus on contrasts that would strike someone from "the opposite coast."

One thing I WON'T say: people are NOT less friendly in Balt. than Seattle or v.v. -- just different in HOW they are friendly.

If you've been to both, you probably have some idea about climate: Seattle is not only rainy it's DARK in the winter (short short days). Baltimore can be gorgeous but it can be both brutally cold and brutally hot -- has a lot of weather, in general, and far less predictable than Seattle.

If I had to choose, I couldn't -- unless I had friends and family in one place or the other, or unless the job I got was really good.

Let us know what you think might be a positive adventure for you and what you think you would eventually get to hate.

I've lived in both cities and most say i favor Baltimore. The downtown area has gone through major renovations, there's lots to do and you can be on the ocean in minutes. Plus Washington, Philly, New York are all great day trips by train. There are two major airports servicing the area. Good restaurants. And it doesn't rain all winter.

John is exactly right. The indigenous population in Baltimore pronounces the town Balamer or Balmer. Hon is used in the way the English used to use dear in a greeting. Balamer used to be a great town.

To Judy24: Some good in-town neighborhoods are those that circle the harbour: Fells Point & Canton on the north shore and Federal Hill and Locust Point on the south shore. FP and Canton are more young and hip (imho) and have a lively bar scene. FH is kind of yuppie and LP is still blue collar.

As for my screen name, my family's original land grant was Fairfax VA.

As for east v. west coast, a friend moved here from Montana and can't believe how uptight, fast-paced, "rude" etc. the people here are, compared to small town Montana. A bit unfair comparison, I think.

I believe Federal Hill has some of Balamer's oldest homes dating from the Edgar Allen Poe era.

I've never been to Seattle but lived in Baltimore for 3 years.

I wanted to live in an urban centre, not the 'burbs, so I picked to live in Charles Village, the area right near Johns Hopkins University. At first I had a kind of culture shock (after living in Canada for 5 years) and hated the city. After 3 years, it grew on me slowly but surely and I appreciated its charms.

What I liked: The history, the architecture, the vibrant working-class all gave the city an unpretentious worn-around-the-edges charm. I loved the markets (Lexington, Cross Street, Northeast), which were unpretentious and unique, each with its own character; I loved going to these on weekends. I also enjoyed exploring (which I found there was plenty of!); the interesting neighborhoods seemed many, from Federal Hill to Hampden to Waverly to Mount Vernon to Fell's Point to Mount Washington, it just always seemed that, just as I was about ready to write off the city, something else to charm me and catch my interest.

What drove me crazy: The erratic public transit (better than some cities though in that it goes most everywhere) and predominating car-culture (although there are those that live happily carless in Balto), the sometime eerie de facto black-white segregation (despite the fact that I found racial relations MUCH better than in other parts of the US), that the downtown & my favorite neighborhood Mount Vernon cleared out on weekends (even oddly enough on a nice day?!?; although this seemed to be changing as I lived there longer). I also wanted to scream to tourists "go to some of the neighborhoods you people and not the Inner Harbor" (the latter I found an overpriced, blah, chain-filled tourist trap, while in the former there are so many neat locally-run stores).

My 2 cents; do with it what you will

i think you've already decided, sleepless (in seattle)

Wow, you guys are awesome! Thank you all for taking the time to respond. I learned a lot more about the two cities from the post and they've been very helpful.

I've lived in the East Coast all my life and currently live just outside of Boston. While I love Boston dearly, I've realized that I will never be able to achieve the american dream of owning my home in Boston since the real estate prices here are so high. Also, I'd like to live in a warmer climate area...

I consider myself a city person and love the energy and excitement of the city life despite the stresses that come with it, but I don't need to live IN the city, just close to it... On the other hand, I've always been drawn to the ocean, which is why I want to live closer to the either coast. I don't have any kids, so don't have to worry about school systems yet, but that could change...

goCats2002, is Seattle really not that cheaper than San Francisco? I thought San Francisco was way up there in terms of the cost of living along with NYC...

Anyway, thanks again for all your help!

Homestore.com has an income calculator. All you do is type in your income where you live and then put in where you want to move to and it will show you how much you will need to earn in the second city to match your current income. This might help determine if Seattle is the same as San Francisco.

Two more things about Baltimore that may be important to you: lack of health-food stores with organic produce within the city (although a friend of mine tells me a Fresh Fields just opened downtown, to add to the one in the Mount Washington area) and not the most bicyclist-friendly city. I think ecologically-sensitive people did not play a major role in the urban planning.

Ending on a good note, though, I find there's an air of optimism in Baltimore and a loveable (to me) scrappy civic pride despite the flaws. Baltimoreans are making efforts to improve their city visibly, but do not just tear down out of respect for the centuries of history. It'll take some more time, but if you move there, there's a sense that you too could make a valuable contribution.

sleepless, I am no expert on the price of housing nationwide. We just spent a few nights crying in our pillows with sticker shock when we moved to the Seattle area from Portland OR.

But, we had kids and our housing needs were likely different from yours. I have relatives who live way outside of Boston as they couldn't afford the city.

I had fun on that homestore web site, I must say. I compared everything with San Franciso. SF was the most expensive, as you guessed. Baltimore was the lowest in cost. Then Seattle, followed by Boston, gain with SF at the top.

Who knows? Go where you would like to live the most. You will find a way.

I live in Seattle (actually 10 miles to the east) and on days like today I feel as if I've died and gone to heaven...truly a Paradise...But when it rains for weeks on end in the winter, well, that sometimes gets tough (and I have to either take a sunbreak or remind myself of days like today.)

I've lived in S.F. too and love it there as well, but if you love big trees and nature, this place wins out.

I sugguest you take some time and really check out both cities and see which one feels best to you. You can make arrangements in advance to have a real estate agent show you around so that you can get a genuine idea of what would be available in your price range (we did that before we moved here and it was so helpful) and you can check out both cities and determine which one has the most to offer for your needs.

Good luck. Let us know what you decide.

Hope no one gets mad if I keep this thread going. I have lived in Baltimore all my life (excpet while attending college in Philly) and have spent a lot of time in Seattle too. And I have traveled extensively in the US. (or I guess I wouldn't post on this board!)

There is no question in my mind that Seattle is more expensive as far as real estate goes. Although prices in Baltimore are heating up.

There is no question that there are certain areas of Baltimore you will never want to set foot into, but the same is true of all cities East of the Mississippi.

Most of us Baltimoreans (that's what those of us who are educated call ourselves, except when we feel like being silly and resort to the Bawlmer hon thing) love living here. We enjoy access to great urban and natural attractions, cities to mountains to the bay and atlantic beaches; a fab airport that lets you get away easily, interesting restaurants that won't all break the bank, far less traffic than other cities (but it is getting worse), really low crime in the areas that you would probably consider living in, and a generally pleasant and unpretentious way of life. My advice to someone moving here is to get involved, because it is a very civic and philanthropic community, and that's how people most easily meet others and become part of our very enjoyable way of life.

The weather in Seattle would get me down. I know how great summer is but it doesn't last that long. In Baltimore, it can be in the 60's into December. Winter doesn't last forever, and sometimes it doesn't even snow.

I love to travel, but I love coming home too.