Susan

A December 19 newspaper article (by Ian Stewart, Associated Press) said that a 51 year old former flight attendant & frequent U.S. visitor (white) was handcuffed & made to spread her legs for a rubber glove search after an inspector noticed she once overstayed her visa by 8 days four visits previously.
She was questioned for 21 hours in an INS detention center and then sent back to New Zealand. She got her paper work together & returned to the U.S. (another plane ticket poorer) to reunite with her American husband in California.
Do you think INS was doing a good job in this case (does it make you feel safer here in America) or do you think INS was overzealous?

George

I wonder if a 51 year old woman from New Zealand is high on the list of likely terrorists.

xxx

Susan,

I don't think you understand what was happening. That is all part of Dubbya's new anti-terrorism/PAP smear program.

Lynn

I agree that the INS agents were being overzealous in this case, but having said that, I must also say that they have an impossible job. Trying to determine who might be a terrorist simply by looking at them is not so easy; they're not all of Middle Eastern descent.

My husband and I lived in southern New Mexico for over four years, and the INS there was under a lot of pressure to seek out and deport "illegals" who'd slipped across the border from Mexico. Well, just how were they supposed to determine, simply by looking at a group of Hispanic people, who was legal and who wasn't?

So you had a lot of citizens on one side who wanted the illegals out, and a large Hispanic population on the other side that was tired of being harassed simply because they "looked" Mexican but were in this country legally. Those agents were damned if they did and damned if they didn't, and I think the same principle applies here.

If they examine people with questionable credentials, they're accused of abusing their power, and if they let a terrorist slip through and a tragedy results, they're accused of not doing their jobs properly.

I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want that job!

xxx

"...they're not all of Middle Eastern descent..."

You're joking right? Next you'll be telling us that they're not all Arab males between 18 and 49. It may be PC but it's also sticking your head in the sand.

Lynn

Yes, "xxx," I understand what you're saying and I agree, just as I agreed that the INS agents in this case were definitely overzealous, to the point of being outrageous in their behavior. My point was that their jobs are ridiculously high-pressure, and I wouldn't want to do what they have to.

xxx

Oh wait, they're probably not all Islamic fundamentalists either. Just because the facts point to that is no reason not to be PC at all times. Hey PC first, safety schmafety.

y

Actually xxx Hamas and other terrorists groups are heavily recruiting Non-Arab looking people to carry out terrorist attacks. There have been a number of Palestinian suicide bombers who were young women and did not fit the profile.

Dr.

Ah yes, the classic white woman as terrorist trick! I'll bet they'll be recruiting kids in wheelchairs next, huh? Or that seeing eye dog. One hundred percent of the 9-11 terrorists fit the same racial, gender and religious profile. But hey, if you had the legal excuse to stick your rubber gloved finger up some woman's butt, you'd probably do it too.

Mr. Gigglebottom

Your right, your right.

Tim McVeigh was middle eastern. Only the mideast countries have a grudge with the USA. The Maryland sniper was middle eastern. The unsolved anthrax scare was middle east created. The middle east took down our stock market and are cutting jobs and closing markets.

No, wait. Those are all proven wrong assumptions. So I guess you're wrong, too.

[email protected]

Don't be so naive, there have been several incidents where they have used people in wheelchairs, and even women with children.

I say they are the experts, certainly more than you and I, and I have no problem letting tend to their duties.

Monday morning quarterbacking is popular in all areas I guess.

y

Dr. Feelgood you missed the point entirely. Yes, the 9-11 terrorists were all Middle Eastern men. Do you really think they will use the same looking kind twice?? No way. They will recruit women or light skinnned Arabs who can easily pass for another nationality. They do and will use fake passports and names.

I would be more afraid of stinger missles hitting planes than hijackers...

Mike

This is exactly why we are in the situation we are, thanks to the naive of the world who think we should all sit down by the camp fire and sing merry songs with the evil doers!

That will chnge them into decent loving humans.

Just Me

Susan: who really knows? Certainly not the associated press reporter and definitely not you or me....

x

This is ridiculous trying to second guess security and INS.

Ryan

I'm sure Ian Stewart of the Associated Press will be the first one to point the finger at INS when someone slips through. That's his job, create a controversy and criticize when they do and when they don't, facts be damned.

The thing is, there are some potentially significant facts missing from the original post, and possibly from the article, that could have caused that reaction. Such as, where had she been prior to New Zealand? Maybe she was in drug smuggling havens or active areas for terrorists. Who knows. Maybe she is a former flighht attendant for a reason.

Perhaps she gave them a hard time when the issue was first mentioned by the INS agent. Maybe the search occurred after a tirade of four letter words on her part and this was their way of getting even.

I'm sure Ian Stewart researched the article with his conclusion and point of view already reached.

I learned many years ago to take with a grain of salt much of what the press writes. It's usually conjecture that encompasses sweeping pronouncements and gross exagerrations. Remember all those articles circa 1989 about how Japan would "own" much of this US.

Travis

If that's an example of Ian Stewart's journalism, he's a hack. That's biased and inflammatory and not very informational, because that isn't exactly what happened, which means he is deliberately trying to present a false picture or the summary is wrong. The rubber glove search was not what it sounds like, they always put on gloves on for cleanliness when they are searching any part of someone's body (in this case, it was just under her outer garments) and she was asked to spread her legs because they always do that to pat down the legs. This was not an internal body cavity search, which is what that makes it sounds like.

So, I guess all you ignoramuses think it's okay to break the law and visa requirements if you are female, 51 years old, white, from New Zealand, or a former flight attendant? Do you morons really think it is impossible for non-Arab males to be involved in terrorism or to smuggle bombs for others? Why don't you tell that to the victims of the Lockerbie bomb explosion, which was put on board by a non-Arab male with his girlfriend, doing a favor for a friend? HOw about the white European girlfriend of the guy who killed Fortuyn in Amsterdam, who had bomb-making equipment in her house?

Don't you people realize that a terrorist could try to smuggle a bomb on board through someone of any age or race or sex, the more unlikely the better, by trying to put it on their person without them being aware? Or simply trying to con a girlfriend or friend? You people are so stupid and ignorant who think only the prime terrorist himself (of course, it couldn't be a female) would have to be the one smuggling a bomb on-board and that it couldn't be anyone but an Arab young male.

joebob

I am severely disappointed! After hearing that INS agents had the authority to perform cavity searches on New Zealanders, I quit my job, and applied to be an INS agent. Now I found out it was just conjecture. Anybody hiring out there?

Karen

Just glad when mistakes like the identification of those five guys in Canada are announced loud and clear. Restores my faith.

I have a friend who was recently written about in NY Newsday. Sorry I forget the issue came out in October or November some time. FBI agents came to his house presented him with a "family Tree" his sister had drawn up in Arabic on an earlier visit. They insisted this was an organizational chart. Actually they asked my friend if it was an organizational chart. This was stolen from a summer house they rent out to others from time to time in the mountains in NY state. FBI said it had been sent into their offices.

This family tree had not even been translated. It was also stolen from their home. My friend's wife, my friend of 17 years also quoted in the article was a WTC survivor. She lost 2/3 of her office mates that she had worked with for 5 years. She had already engaged them for 4 visits, imagine how this brought memories back. I was called to prove that she stayed with me on 911 as they thought she mysteriously missed work on this day. Oh did I mention this was done in a question over my voice mail so now I very well may be on their list. All on the grounds that her husband is a Palestinian American.

You just have a lot of inexperienced kids in decision making positions in the FBI, I am guessing also in search areas of airports. There needs to be a check system in place. I think we all agree that this does not mean stop checking up on leeds and ignoring suspcious individuals. It does mean being a professional and accountable for irresponsible/unprofessional actions. Not letting little kids with no experience screw with people’s lives, respectability etc.

Dr Roger

Karen,
With all due respect, I don't see how anyone so close to the WTC tragedy could be upset about some FBI agents knocking on the door and asking a few questions. By your description what they did can hardly be described as "screwing with people's lives." My opinion is if we want to feel safer and be safer we're going to have to accept REAL hardships and intrusions, not the "inconvenience" of a few phone calls.