One week in Southern Utah & Grand Canyon

Old Oct 30th, 2008, 11:07 AM
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One week in Southern Utah & Grand Canyon

Hello... I've already gathered bits and pieces of great info from reading these forums, but was hoping for advice on our specific (attempted) itinerary at this particular time of year.

Length of trip: 8 days
Arrival and departure: Las Vegas
When: mid to late November
Tentative loop: one night in Vegas followed by Zion, Bryce, possibly Capitol Reef or Goblin Valley, Moab, Arches, Canyonlands, possibly Valley of the Gods, Monument Valley, South Rim Grand Canyon (two days, two nights), back to Vegas
Budget: minimal!

We are: early 30s, in decent shape but not looking to do any "serious"/extreme hiking (i.e. we are definitely up for a few longer hikes but likely on trails marked easy to moderate, then hope to cover as many highlights as possible by way of shorter hikes and even some scenic driving due to time constraints!)

We realize we are probably trying to pack way more than is reasonable into this amount of time but also want to see as much as possible, so are looking for advice on how to prioritize. We plan to do most of our driving at night.

What are the must-sees? Which of these parks could be skipped this time around? If you were spending only one day in any of these parks, which trail(s) would you recommend? If you could splurge on just one organized tour on this itinerary (i.e. by plane, helicopter, horseback, boat), what would it be? (Anyone been on a Grand Canyon air tour, and are they worth it?) Relatively cheap-but-decent places to stay near or between parks?

Finally, taking the season into consideration... Should we expect treacherous driving anywhere? Do we need tire chains? Will we be fine in an intermediate to standard-size rental car, or would we need something more like an SUV this time of year? What kind of clothing will we need for hiking? (Everything we've seen says average highs 50-60 and lows 20-30, but I've no concept of desert hiking and whether it might actually feel much different out on the trails.)

A million thanks in advance for any guidance you can provide on even one of these questions. Neither of us has seen this part of the country before... We are reading every book we can get our hands on, but advice from "real people" is always best!
moogrob is offline  
Old Oct 30th, 2008, 11:43 AM
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I assume there is a good reason you have to make this trip in November. This will cut down on your daylight hours considerably. Driving at night to your next destination so that you "wake up there" is a good idea, but I only do that in the summer when I don't have to consider road conditions.

There also may be some road closures in your Park of choice, but I am not familiar with those either (check nps.gov for the official National Park website).

I think you can see the highlights of a National Park in one day but you will have to cut back on the amount of parks you have on your list and really research carefully (& realistically) what it is important for you to see in the time you have.

Personally, I would concentrate on Utah and skip the Grand Canyon this time around.
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Old Oct 30th, 2008, 11:53 AM
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Depending on what you wanting to do at Grand Canyon, that is really the only place that I would suggest to do in one night. If you want to do some hiking down or a lot along the rim, then another day would be good. A helicopter tour is a good way to see the canyon from a different perspective.

Zion, rent gear and hike "The Narrows", consider Angels Landing, and Canyon Overlook Trail. Angels Landing is a Doozy, but fantastic. I am not sure about weather in Bryce at that time. Hike Navajo loop/Queens Garden if it is open. This is higher elevation, so it does snow here.

Moab,
Arches, Hike to Delicate Arch, Hike Devils Garden entire length, see Double Arch (there is also a Double O arch), Balanced Rock.

Canyonlands is big, and there is three sections. A ton to do there. Probably the "must see" there is Mesa Arch.

I would also see Dead Horse Point.

Best Adventure IMOP is canyoneering with www.deserthighlights.com in moab. Fantastic experience.

If you do a hummer tour in Moab, it is pretty darn scary, but cool.

I haven't been to Goblin Valley or Cap Reef, but would like to go there soon.

Natural Bridges Monument is a cool place to go.

Goosenecks of the San Juan, Moki Dugway, Muley Point are all within 5 miles of Valley of the Gods. VOG is just north of Monument Valley.

Of course, drive HWY 12 along the way.

If you are planning on doing this in 08 you will probably have a hard time finding lodging at Grand Canyon, Bryce, Zion and Monument Valley, VOG in the parks. But certainly try and see what you can come up with. Moab won't be a problem. Torrey outside of Cap reef I wouldn't think would be a problem.

If you are going to Monument Valley, Mesa Verde really isn't far off you path.


Splurge with a helicopter over the Grand Canyon and Canyoneering in Moab. You will enjoy both very much.

I would rank my fav parks you are considering

Arches #1
Zion #2
Grand Canyon #3
Mesa Verde #4
Canyonlands #5

I wasn't that impressed with Monument Valley or Valley of the Gods. I haven't been to Goblin Valley, Bryce, or Cap Reef.

Here is a link to my pics. Monument Valley pictures are in my Mesa Verde Album. you will also find Zion (just last week), Arches, , etc.

http://www.photoworks.com/members/Spirobulldog






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Old Oct 30th, 2008, 01:09 PM
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moogrob,

You cannot do this in 8 days. Even without hiking. Don't even try.

You should not plan to drive at night at this time of year. If you drove the Hwy 12 between Bryce and Torrey (Capitol Reef) at night you would miss all the scenery. You could have snow and southern UT is LOADED with deer and you don't want to hit any.

Lodging will be a problem, especially at Zion during Thanksgiving.

Maybe just do LV-Zion-Bryce-GC. Save Moab for when you have more time.

Hope this helps
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Old Oct 30th, 2008, 01:28 PM
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You would be wise to check the weather, there is definitely a chance of snow at the higher elevations, such as around Bryce and Scenic Byway 12 in Utah (I'm not sure you are guaranteed that will be open). And wouldn't the Narrows be way too cold to do in November?

Other than driving out the Island in the Sky overlook or Dead Horse Point at sunset, which can be done from Moab, you wouldn't need to spend much time in Canyonlands NP.

To appreciate Monument Valley you need to drive into the Navajo Tribal Park near Gouldings, or go on a guided tour, which takes about 4 hours. I loved it when I went a few years ago, but I was coming from the Grand Canyon direction (and had not yet had a full dose of red rock formations). Lodging in the vicinity of Monument Valley is expensive, and limited, unless you're camping, although it's off season.

I would not make a special trip to Goblin Valley, you'll see goblin rocks elsewhere along the way.

If you are only looking for easy/moderate walks, you would not want to do the entire Devil's Gardens loop, but only as far as Landscape Arch. Two days is fine for Arches NP.

I enjoyed the moderate Hickman Bridge walk in Capitol Reef as well as the historic Fruta District.

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Old Oct 30th, 2008, 02:23 PM
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I would agree with the suggestion to cut the Moab section out, unless you're willing to skip Zion/Bryce and just head straight to Moab. That may not be a bad option. I'm not sure how great Zion would be at that time of year and the southern half of Bryce may be closed if there's enough snow already.

It would be helpful to know if your trip is this year or next and what dates you're looking at if it is this year. I checked and there's lodging open in the Grand Canyon and Zion mid to late November, but it depends on exactly which days.

I wouldn't see a need for tire chains or an SUV unless you plan on going on some of the dirt roads. The main roads should be fine, although at the higher elevations you may run into some winter weather.
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Old Oct 31st, 2008, 05:04 AM
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I've been to southern Utah twice. Both times in mid-May to early June. With that in mind I'll defer to Dayle as far as weather.

I noticed that you only want easy hikes but don't mind if they're a little long.

I only do easy. I rate what I enjoyed best. I will ignore the amount of time you will need as Dayle has pretty much told you not to drive at night. Also, driving is not fast in ideal conditions.

Zion
Canyon Overlook at east entrance.
Riverside walk for canyon, river, etc feel
Angel's landing and Narrows are not in the easy category.

From west to east.

Bryce
Navajo Loop / Quuens garden will give you a good feel for the park in a few hours.
Stop at natural Bridge, Bryce Point for lookout views.

Willis Creek
About 10 miles sout of Cannonville (about 20 miles east of Bryce). A very easy hike/walk in a real slot canyon.

Lower Calf Creek Falls
Near Escalante (east of Boulder). A bit long at 2.5 miles each way and on sand. But shouldn't have the 95 degree weather we had. The falls at the end are absolutely spectacular.

Capitol Reef
In my opinion skip by this park. Maybe a quick stop to hike Hickman Bridge but little here that will provide lasting memories.

Canyonlands
I wouldn't do any hikes here but would stop at a few viewpoints. Mesa Arch is a very short hike. This is the only arch i saw where you are at the top rather than at the bottom. Worth it.

Dead Horse Point
Spectacular views.

Arches
Nothing can beat the view of Delicate Arch (not from the distant viewpoint). The hike is all uphill and in some elevation. However, there's nothing hard here. Plan this for an hour before sunset and sit and watch.

In the windows section Double Arch is right near the others.

Balanced Rock is right beside the road. Spend some time walking around it.

Fiery Furnace ranger hike if you have time.

Grand Canyon
Not one of my favorite places. Just a giant bowl unless you're planning on hiking down for an hour or so to get the perspective.

If you want to see my photos go to:
www.travelwalks.com

Select both of the Utah trips 2007 & 2008.
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Old Oct 31st, 2008, 05:07 AM
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oops.

I thought Goblin Valley for a couple of hours was more fun than Capitol Reef.

Nothing wrong with Capitol Reef but after a while most trails blend in.

Goblin Valley is different and you'll remember it. Fun to climb all over the rock formations.
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Old Oct 31st, 2008, 05:09 AM
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oops again.

Escalante and LCC Falls are west of Boulder.

Ignore all of my typos.
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Old Oct 31st, 2008, 06:13 AM
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With only 8 days, and if the 2 days are the Grand Canyon are a must...then you'll probably have to skip out on Moab and surrounding sites. Either do Utah, or Grand Canyon, Zion and Bryce. To do it all, you'd need at least 2 weeks.
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Old Oct 31st, 2008, 07:36 AM
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I will agree with Meyer for the most part. I guess The Narrows is not for everyone, but it is spectacular. I can't imagine going to the park and not doing it. There is really nothing to it, just walking slowly thru a river (you only want to go when it is running like a creek) You would definately want to rent the drysuits in Springdale for this time of year. Go as far as you want to and turn around. It is far LESS strenuous than Delicate Arch Trail as far as cardio and uphill workout. It is a totally different type of hike than I have even encountered. Yeah, Angels Landing will definately require some stamina.

I think Meyer and others are right. You should limit yourself. The rocks and trails all start to look alike. Perhaps, Meyers experience in Cap Reef. I hope to go sometime to Cap Reef, to see what I think about it. Consider just Moab and vicinity to the east, or perhaps concentrate on Grand Canyon, Zion, etc, to the west. I have been to Utah 4 times(each time about 5 days) the last 2 years and have only scratched the surface.
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Old Oct 31st, 2008, 07:38 AM
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I should add, probably my experience with Monument Valley area. It was the last thing we did on our trip, and I had seen plenty of rock already.
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Old Oct 31st, 2008, 08:25 AM
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You're getting some great advice, especially from Dayle (my mentor when it comes to all things Utah) and Spirobulldog.

Myer's advice is good but there are two things with which I disagree:

1) the Narrows really is an "easy" hike if you start from the bottom and walk up the river as far as you like, then turn around. This is how most people do it, and it is one of the best hikes (and most fun) I've ever done. That is saying a lot, because I am an avid hiker, have hiked in some of the world's most beautiful places, and usually don't do "easy" ones. But this one is so beautiful---and so much fun it will have you laughing. It's a "must do" if you are going to Zion, in my book.

But do check with Zion Adventure Co. (In Springdale) for updates on the weather (don't even consider going if it has been raiing in the watershed area), and definitely rent the gear---including, for a late November walk, the drysuit or, at a minimum the "dry pants".

http://www.zionadventures.com/

Hiking the whole Narrows, from the "top down" is not an easy hike; more like difficult and strenuous, but we are not talking about that one.

2) (Strong disagreement on this one). I have seen Myer's comment that the Grand Canyon is "just a giant bowl" a number of times and each time I grit my teeth. The Grand Canyon is HUGE, and it is full of wonders. I suppose the difference is that I have spent eight days on 2 different trips exploring the depths of the canyon, hiking to the bottom and back. I am always sad to leave.

The best way to see the canyon is to hike (or ride a mule) down into it---even if you only hike an hour or two down, you will enter a different world. And even if your only views are from above, it constantly changes. Spend some time to appreciate it. One of my favorite viewpoints is the Trail View Overlook on the Rim Trail to the west of the lodge area---you get a great view of the Bright Angel Trail and likely will see some soaring condors.

Grand Canyon is probably the place for your "splurge"---either a helicopter ride over the canyon, or a mule ride to Plateau Point (takes 7 hours but gets you 2/3 of the way to the bottom of the canyon---and back). You could also consider a smoothwater float trip on the upper Colorado, from Glen Canyon Dam to Lees Ferry:

http://www.coriverdiscovery.com/

They run these trips through November. I believe you start and finish at Page, which is close to your route from Utah to the GC.

For budget lodging at the Grand Canyon, try Bright Angel Lodge, which is right on the rim (well, a few steps away, separated from it by a walkway). Standard rooms with ensuite toilet/sink but shower down the hall are $76, and they do have some available midweek in late November. Book at

www.grandcanyonlodges.com and if nothing shows up on the web, call them.
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Old Oct 31st, 2008, 10:00 AM
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enzian,

Let me clarify and stress.

1) I should have mentioned that the Narrows requires some planning (rather than rating it harder than easy) regarding water temperature, depth and equipment. If you don't have time to consider these, it might not be for you.

2) As far as the Grand Canyon is concerned. I mentioned that I thought it was a giant bowl and nothing more if you don't plan on hiking down at least an hour or so to get things into proper perspective.

When I was there I only added the Grand Canyon as an after-thought to break up a long day's drive. My big mistake was not hiking down a bit. I just never thought of it and it was my mistake.

Hence my opinion if one doesn't hike down some.
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Old Oct 31st, 2008, 10:44 AM
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I have never hiked down either. I did do a raft trip and that is fantastic. I never knew so much was available in National Parks until about 4 years ago. I went to the Grand Canyon twice with my parents when I was younger. Both times we drove out, looked over and that was it. I didn't realize there was even a place you could stay at. When I finally did a National Park right was when I finally realized, wow, these place are even better than Disneyworld. Don't make the mistake of the average visitor and spend 3 hours at a park. Spend a couple of days at a minimum at most of them. Some require even longer. Whatever you decide to do you will enjoy it. By the way, when in Nov are you going? If any of this has interested you, people could certainly expand on certain areas.
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Old Oct 31st, 2008, 10:56 AM
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I'm just going to point out the OP is not strictly looking for 'easy' hikes. In the OP's words: "We are: early 30s, in decent shape but not looking to do any "serious"/extreme hiking (i.e. we are definitely up for a few longer hikes but likely on trails marked easy to moderate, then hope to cover as many highlights as possible by way of shorter hikes and even some scenic driving due to time constraints!):

So a few longer, moderate hikes are an option, as long as I'm reading this correctly.
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Old Oct 31st, 2008, 11:00 AM
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I just wanted to add a few suggestions. You couldn't possibly see all the places you have listed. I would do Vegas Zion Bryce loop around Lake Powell to Grand Canyon. If you can include Capitol Reef I would but I do think it would be hard to fit all in. If you do decide to go to Lake Powell a very worthwile stop would be the town of Page Arizona a must see is Antelope Canyon. You must go in with a guide but there are a few different tour operators that leave from Page. Not sure if the cruise on Lake Powell is operating at that time of the year but again a very beautiful trip.
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Old Oct 31st, 2008, 11:14 AM
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http://www.toddshikingguide.com/Hikes/Hikes.htm


This is a good website that I visit when considering hiking.
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Old Oct 31st, 2008, 11:33 AM
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I agree with mmouse,

If you're going to the South Rim from Bryce/Zion, plan on a few hours when the sun is highest just outside of Page.

Antelope Canyon, The Best Dam View and Horseshoe Bend are all within 15 minutes of each other and definitely worth the stop.

You don't even have to go into Page itself. I didn't.
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Old Oct 31st, 2008, 01:58 PM
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moogrob hasn't come back, so I wonder if he/she doesn't like what they are hearing. Oh well.

Gee thanks, enzian! We really must hike together sometime!
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