KathyH

My husband and I will be traveling to Vegas and Utah in mid November.

We fly into Vegas and will immediately head out to Bryce canyon for an overnight. Lucky enough to get a room within the park. This could be because it is the last two nights they are open for the season.

From there we will be heading east on scenic route 12 to Boulder for an overnight. We plan to stop at various points along the way, Willis slot canyon is one place on the list.

Last two nights are at Zion. I know we'll be doubling back but after watching a program on route 12 I had to add that drive to our agenda.

My main question right now is what kind of vehicle to rent. Mid November can bring snow in Bryce and I assume along route 12.

Would it be wise to get a four wheel drive or could we get by with a car. We won't be doing any major off road driving but probably some.

What are your thoughts.

Thanks,
KathyH

tomfuller

Not familiar with Boulder. Why not go all the way to Torrey or even Hanksville? Goblin Valley is also worth a visit.
If it does happen to snow, wait a couple of hours for the road crews to clear the roads. You don't need a 4WD.

InSandy

Boulder is a great little town. Emphasis on little. But all the better for it. Located at the foot of Boulder mt it won't get as much snow as the road north over the mountain will get. Plenty to keep you busy there. Between the Burr trail (paved to the park boundary), the Anasazi Museum and the drive to get there- don't know if Kiva Koffehouse would be open that late in the year, or Hell's Backbone Grill.
The road to Willis Creek is dirt, as is the Hole in the rock road (which you might want to take to Devil's Garden), and Hell's Backbone Road. If those are places you want to go I would get a 4x4, or at least an SUV.

InSandy

Oh, another place on a dirt road is Grosvenor Arch down the Cottonwood Wash road.

Check at the Cannonville visitors center for road conditions to that and Willis Creek.

There is always a chance for snow in November, but there is always a chance it will be beautiful as well.

KathyH

We will be staying in Boulder and have dinner reservqations at Hell's Backbone Grill. Kiva koffehouse is closed for the season as are a lot of other places.

I realize it is late in the year but main reason for the trip is so that husband can attend the Superkarts races at the Rio that week. We are traveling out to Utah prior to the races.

Figuring that some of the roads we'll be traveling are dirt, probably best to have an SUV vs a sedan, right?

Thanks,
KathyH

InSandy

When the dirt roads are in great condition a sedan might be able to make the trip, but they are easier with a sturdier vehicle. I'd get an SUV. It will help if it snows as well.

KathyH

Okay, I just checked prices for an SUV and they aren't that bad. Figure if nothing else the extra clearance will help.

Tomsd

You can also get by with a car if you have/rent chains - and more importantly - know how to put them on. If not - and the SUV prices are not that bad - get one.

WhereAreWe

Oh god no, forget the chains. That is consistently some of the worst advice given on Fodors. If you don't know how to drive in snow without chains, stay off the road or reroute your itinerary to avoid the snow.

nytraveler

If you are planning on driving off paved roads you need to examine your auto rental policy carefully. Many void the insurance if you take a car off of paved roads. And if anything happened you could be out of pocket thousands.

Definitely check this before you rent - what agency allows and type of vehicle.

Dayle

Also, be sure to have proper food and gear in your car when driving off road during winter. Extra food and water, very warm clothing, hats, gloves. Full gas tank, good tires, etc., etc.

Absolutely check current road conditions with the local sheriff/Highway Patrol/visitor's centers before going anywhere.

KathyH

My husband is a good driver and used to driving in snow as we live in New Jersey. We don't get tons but we've had our share.

Neither of us are huge risk takers, especially on vacation, so if conditions did not warrant it we wouldn't travel down that road.

We don't want to be a news story about a NJ couple lost in the winter desert for days. Not a great way to have a vacation.

I'll check the insurance policies about traveling on unpaved roads. My guess is that most companies will not allow that.

Is the road to Willis Slot Canyon unpaved? That is one side trip I really want to make.

I wish we could spend more time in the Utah area but we have to be back in Vegas on 11/14. If we had more vacation time we'd leave earlier. Still 4 days is better than zero days. And as I've been reading, only gives us more reason to come back again.
KathyH

Tomsd

What's the big deal about driving with chains? Done it all my life - no problemo, and as the travelers have some experience in driving on snow - it's a no-brainer if you know how to put them on. The only negative is they are slow to drive with, but if it's bad conditions - you should be going slower anyway.

Still - it's easier if you can get a SUV for about the same price as a car - which presumably will have snow tires - and ideally - if you need it - 4 wheel drive.

Hey - odds are you will not hit a big snowstorm in mid-November anyway, but as the Boy Scouts say - Be Prepared!!

InSandy

Yes the road to Willis Creek is unpaved.

From what I've heard car rental places don't like you putting chains on your car either.


I haven't done chains for years. And I've come to the decision I would rather stay inside during a snowstorm than be out on the road with other drivers who don't know what they are doing.

spirobulldog

I get wherearewe's point. But, I had rather have chains or a 4 wheel drive if I need them than not.

I guess everyone should just stay off the road if it snows? I want my daughter (18 year old) to learn how to drive on snow. She has only done it a time or two, but everyone has to have a first time at some point.

Tomsd

Never heard car companies don't like you putting on chains. You can even buy the plastic type ones that really don't do any - or much - damage if they come loose.

Do have to say - putting on chains does take a little experience to get them right/tight - so best to rent a 4 wheel drive. There are usually "chain monkeys" on the busier routes (at least such as going up to Lake Tahoe) - who love to charge you too much money to put them on for you.

And InSandy: Yes, now you can sit inside and enjoy the storm without worrying about driving on the snowpack/in a storm - but didn't you ever have to get from one place to another in a storm/post snowstorm when you were younger?

WhereAreWe

My issue is mostly with the advice to get chains. It comes from people who are used to putting them on and driving in snow, and is generally given to those who are not familiar with either. Typically comes with an attitude that chains will make everything all right....which is true if you know what you're doing, not so much if you don't.

If conditions in southern Utah (not the mountains or Yosemite) are such that chains are advised, the average tourist is in over their heads. Even 4wd can give a false sense of security - as does the confident advice to put on chains.

When I give advice, I always make every effort to take into account the OP's experiences and what they've said they want to do. I don't just start going on about what I would do in their situation, because I am not the OP and can't possibly give them my life experience in a few hundred words.

Therefore, I feel recommending chains is terrible advice that is often given with no regard to the OPs experience, but rather given based on the giver's experience and comfort level, usually 2 very different things.

I don't say 'never drive on snow' or 'stay inside if there's snow on the roads', but chains are another story. We're not talking about an inch of snow here.

spirobulldog

I have put them on rental cars twice. Both times against the rental car rules. I would have had to pay for any tire or rim damage. Or perhaps even body or paint should a chain come off.

Some National Parks like Yosemite or Sequoia make it mandatory that you have chains. Even if you are in a 4 wheel drive vehicle.

tomfuller

I couldn't agree more with WhereWeAre. I would never put my tire chains on a car that I didn't own.
On the passes here in Oregon, we have chain up areas at the bottom. You must carry your chains in your vehicle unless you have snow tires with the 3 peak mountain with a snowflake on the sidewall.
The one time I really had to put on my chains was 6 years ago when I was at a cabin at Clear Lake when it snowed about 6" overnight.
My DW couldn't put on chains if she had to. She keeps at least $5 in the car to pay for the installation if she ever is required to go over the pass. The best course is to turn around and go back to where there is less snow.
If you get stuck on a dirt road your AAA membership will not cover the tow.
I have a sad memory of the search for the Kim family here in Oregon in late November 2006. I drove my 4WD truck over that same road earlier in the month. I did not have any cell phone coverage until I got back to Merlin.

Tomsd

Why do some posters assume the travelers who ask questions have no common sense? Sometimes the advice seems almost condescending to me, or at the level of a grade school teacher.

If you have never driven in snow - which is not the case with these travelers - then yes, don't start out driving in a big snowstorm - or snow packed roads.

And please forgive moi for even mentioning chains.
Guess it seems most in here don't know how to put them on. Where I came from - all the guys did - and had to put them on/take them off several times during the winter - and some of the women could do it very well also.

BTW - Tomf: $5 is cheap compared to what they charge going to Tahoe - which is more in the $15 to $20 range.