Niagra/Toronto and/or Montreal/Boston

Old Feb 23rd, 2016, 09:58 AM
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Niagra/Toronto and/or Montreal/Boston

(posting on the US board, since there's more traffic and the trip will likely be at least partially in the US!)

Background: My usual travel buddy and I are contemplating a trip that involves Canada - she's never been and wants the stamp in her passport, and I've been (and loved it) but only to the west - Vancouver, Victoria, Banff. Typically, she makes the occasional suggestion and is then along for the ride, while I do all the planning! She started the discussion by bringing up Niagra Falls/Toronto, but as I looked into it, Montreal sounded more interesting than Toronto. The problem: flights to Montreal *and* Toronto are not great for our airports and time frame - really long layovers. But flying in/out of Boston is cheap and direct for me, and only five hours or so from Montreal. So, I've come up with these options so far, and would love thoughts on any of them.

Time frame: roughly a week, probably sometime in May.
Our interests: good food (not necessarily fine dining), seeing pretty things, general tourist things. We've been to Europe several times, but need to contain the costs this time, so Montreal and/or Quebec City sound like they might be a good "substitute" (while of course being great in their own right).

We're mid-30s single women who travel a bit faster than most people on Fodor's, but don't want to speed through things either. We like trains but are fine with renting a car too (though it looks like renting in one country and dropping off in another will be way too expensive).

1. Based on her original thought, Toronto + Niagra Falls area. (I looked into flying into Buffalo as well - prices/times were no better.) I'm not sure there's enough to do in this area to warrant a weeklong trip (no offense, Toronto residents/fans), but would be amenable to combining it with something else I haven't thought of!

2. Toronto + Niagra + train to Montreal.

3. Fly in/out of Boston and do a loop through VT/NH to Montreal and maybe Quebec City. Neither of us have been to that part of New England; she's been to Boston a few times but seems open to going again, and I've been once but only for 36 hours. So far this is probably my preferred option and has the added bonus of easiest flights (for me, at least - the two of us live in different cities).

Any thoughts are appreciated!
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Old Feb 23rd, 2016, 10:15 AM
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Did you price flying to Rochester NY? The Amtrak Maple Leaf leaves the station in Rochester shortly before 2PM every day and arrives in Niagara Falls ON about 7:30PM.
From the border to Toronto it is considered a ViaRail train.
The station in Toronto is next to the CN Tower.
If you go into Canada on the train, they usually do not stamp your passport. Amtrak has your passport number and passes the information on to the Canadians.
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Old Feb 23rd, 2016, 10:37 AM
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May is before tourist season really starts. Weather can be nice but no guarantees. It will probably be black fly season so I would cross off any activity that requires going into the woods. One of the fun food activities is visiting farmers markets but it's too early in the season for most. Brattleboro VT for example has several ethnic food vendors. Norwich would be on your way to Canada and looks like it will be every Sat starting in May. It is very festive with a few craft vendors. Only a few miles away is King Arthur Flour which has a good café and a great shop for everything having to do with baking. You can also take a class. This is really a hands on class. Highly recommend staying at the Norwich Inn but you might want lunch at Simon Pierce in nearby Quechee or at least tour the building.

You can get maps from each state dept of agriculture for wine, cheese, ice cream.

Flowering shrubs will be in season. Apple orchards in the Concord NH area bloom around May 15. A really nice drive would be thru Rye NH (north of Boston on seacoast) with a visit to Portsmouth NH for dining, walking around, etc. If you get that far on the seacoast, it would be really nice to keep going to Portland ME. Friends and I enjoyed a cooking "class" at Stonewall Kitchens in York ME. It's really a demo with a great meal.

From Portland ME you can cut across to NH's White Mountains but it's too early for the lupine festival. Still there are some stunning vistas.

You might find a rental that will allow travel into Canada.

One week isn't a very long time but you could squeeze in a few nights in Montreal.
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Old Feb 23rd, 2016, 04:33 PM
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I think there is plenty to do in Niagara Falls Toronto - if you include a little of NY state (finger lakes?), Niagara Falls, Niagara on the Lake, the wineries in the area and Toronto. You could fly in and out of buffalo and return the car to the US to avoid a huge drop off charge.

You could also do Montreal and Quebec City but think adding in Boston and much of new england is way too much unless you are going for 10 or 12 days - and not just 6 or 7.
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Old Feb 24th, 2016, 01:44 AM
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As someone that lives in the Toronto area I can definitely tell you that there is plenty of things to do in Toronto-Niagara area for a week trip. Especially for a great diversity of food that you said you're interested in.

Several options if you fly in and out of Buffalo you can take the train, bus to niagara & Toronto or rent a car. If you want to move at your own pace I recommend renting a car even though if you plan on staying in the downtown core of Toronto when you get there public transit (subway) or even walking would do

May is a good time when it comes to weather in Toronto, that's when it's started to warm up but you avoid that dread humidity we get during the summer although last year wasn't that hot until about August.

There's plenty of attractions in & around the city but it really just depends what you're in to.
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Old Feb 24th, 2016, 02:25 AM
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I find Montreal much more charming than Toronto and better suited to the tourist. It might also be marginally cheaper for hotels. Boston is also, obviously nice, but hotels can be pricey. Niagra Falls is a half day stop, at best.

I'd go Boston-Montreal, but Toronto would be enjoyable enough.
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Old Feb 24th, 2016, 03:02 AM
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I just love the recommendation to fly into Rochester (that major airline hub) and take a 5 1/2 hr train ride to go the 90 miles to Niagara Falls. Bonus, they don't stamp your passport, which is one of the stated requests of the OP.
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Old Feb 24th, 2016, 04:10 AM
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Well that's Tom for you - he thinks every single trip needs a trip - no matter how unnecessarily complicated the routing - or the expressed interests of the OP.
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Old Feb 24th, 2016, 05:45 AM
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Driving a rental car from Boston is so much easier.
I've driven my own car across into Canada several times in the past 3 years. They do not stamp my passport either way.
The only stamp in my now expired passport is from Portugal.
I walked into Mexico at Los Algodones and didn't even meet any Mexican officials. US Customs didn't stamp my passport when I came back a couple hours later.
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Old Feb 24th, 2016, 06:38 AM
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I'd do your #3. Since prices & connections are much better for Boston than Toronto or Buffalo, seems like that makes the most sense. While the drop charge to leave the car in Canada can be very high, most major companies allow you to take the car to Canada but drop back in Boston (I've done it dozens of times), and then it's just a "local" rental, just contact them to be sure. If you decide to "see" Boston, don't pick up the car until you're ready to leave. As dfrostnh said it's still early in the season in northern NE, so you probably don't want to do much hiking, but there are many other things to see & do on the way in VT & NH.

As for your #2, I assumed you were thinking fly to Toronto, take train to Niagara Falls, ON (which interestingly I couldn't get Amtrak or VIA Rail to book without a bus), then train to Montreal via Toronto. While the Adirondack is a pretty ride, crossing the border by train takes a lot longer than in a car. I suppose it would work, but I think the New England / Quebec loop would be more interesting.
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Old Feb 24th, 2016, 07:34 AM
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Thanks so much for the input, everyone! Lots of things to look into, and I really appreciate the input.

I should have clarified: the "stamp in the passport" is more figurative than literal, though an actual stamp would of course be appreciated. It's really more to check Canada off her bucket list. I think Instagrams will suffice if there is no actual passport stamp.

I did check with Budget (the cheapest rate on Kayak) and their web site explicitly states that taking the car into Canada from the US is fine as long as you let them know ahead of time. The prohibitive expense seems to come when you try to pick up in one country and drop off in the other.

We're from the South, so humidity is not a big deal, but that does remind me that early season hiking in New England might be colder than I'm anticipating! By Memorial Day here it's often in the 80s. We usually try to travel in May because it works for both of us work-wise and flight prices before Memorial Day are usually lower, but would pushing the trip back to early June be better if we do the New England route? Maybe warmer temps and fewer flies?

We might be able to add on another couple of days or so. My friend's work situation is less flexible than mine so I'd need to check with her.

And sorry for misspelling Niagara! That's going to bug me!
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Old Feb 24th, 2016, 09:08 AM
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May is a busy (i.e. expensive) time for Boston hotels with all the college and university graduations. Here's a list of the dates: http://www.bostonzest.com/2015/08/bo...ring-2016.html

Avoid the times when large schools have their commencements--Northeastern, BU, BC, MIT, Tufts, and Harvard.

So early late May/early June might be best. Fly to Boston, rent a car, then stay in Boston at the end of your trip.
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Old Feb 24th, 2016, 11:40 AM
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Thanks, cw - I hadn't thought about graduations, though that makes perfect sense, so thanks for the heads up (and that link is very helpful)!
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Old Mar 11th, 2016, 03:09 PM
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Hi all - I think my friend and I are going to do some nailing down of plans this weekend! I'm not yet sure if we can be gone longer than a week (depends on her work situation - we have a phone date planned this weekend so I'll figure it out then). I do think we're leaning toward not-Toronto for this trip (sorry, Toronto fans!).

My main question right now: We have to go either in May or early June, with May preferred in terms of logistics. Would the second half of May be too early to really enjoy Vermont/New Hampshire? And/or would early June likely be better? I'm asking based on the posts above that mention it being "early in the season" for hiking and farmers' markets - does that just mean we'll be chilly if we hike, or does it mean it will still look like winter or very early spring and we won't enjoy it as much? (The black flies are also a slight concern - after getting attacked by a horde of them while trying to enjoy sunrise at Acadia a couple of years ago, I'm wary!)

If outdoor activities likely won't be great that time of year, maybe it would be better to just do Montreal + Quebec City; my hesitation is that knowing us, I'm a little worried that that would be too much of a great thing. I could definitely be wrong though. Most of our trips are a combo of city sightseeing and more relaxed outdoorsy things. If it helps, our last trips:

2011 - Rome, Venice, Lake Como
2013 - San Francisco, Carmel/Big Sur
2014 - London, San Sebastian and Barcelona
2015 - Florence, Cinque Terre, Tuscany

So far I'm thinking of these options:

Option 1: A week in Montreal + Quebec City. (If we pick this one I'll definitely start a thread on the Canada board!) Up sides: Less (no?) driving, plenty of time in both. Down side: We don't get to see New England (which has been on my list - I've been to Boston, Acadia and the Camden area in Maine, but nowhere else). But maybe it's too early in the year to really enjoy New England anyway.

Days 1-3: arrive and stay in Montreal
Days 4-6: train to QC, stay in QC
Day 7: back to Montreal; day 8: fly home

Option 2: Fly in/out of Montreal, but instead of Quebec City, spend days 4-6 doing a loop through some combination of the Adirondacks, Vermont and New Hampshire (but we won't try to see everything, I promise!).

Option 3: Loop between Boston and Montreal. Boston definitely has the best flight prices, but the car rental and hotel prices are way higher, and the one time I've driven in Boston (just from Maine to Logan!) it stressed me out. Since we've both been to Boston before, it's not a must - it seemed like a fun add-on when I was only thinking about flights, but the extra driving and costs cancel that out I think. So I think we'd only do this if we either can't take a Canadian rental car into the US or if my friend really got excited about going to Boston.

I looked into flying into Burlington or Manchester, but the flights were much more expensive and schedules were pretty crummy.

I tend to overthink... any thoughts would be appreciated!
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Old Mar 11th, 2016, 03:35 PM
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I'd stick with Montreal and Quebec with that limited time. Well, the limited time coupled with the fact that I don't particularly care for New Hampshire or (to a lesser extent) Vermont.

For New England, May should be okay for hiking, but probably early to get much out of the farmers markets.
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Old Mar 12th, 2016, 01:36 AM
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Early June is a better bet that black flies will be over with but it all depends on weather. We had a very warm winter and signs of spring are several weeks early.

You might check cost of public transportation from Boston to any place else where car rentals would be cheaper. About $30 R/T gets you from Logan to Concord NH via bus. See if car rental will pick you up at bus station. Manchester NH has more car rental places. Not sure about Portsmouth NH but that would be another option on a bus route from Logan. Hertz's offer for free pickup and return might apply.

You shouldn't have a problem with black flies if you are out on the water. Portsmouth has some great boat trips. If you want to kayak, the place near Concord opens June 1 for weekends. If you like fine arts and crafts, you can explore League of NH Crafts shops.

One of the early June events in NH is the Lupine Festival in the White Mountains.

Some of the farmers markets are large, festive events. You would be too early for fresh berries but at Norwich, VT, for example, more than half the vendors offer value added products (think jams and pickles), local cheeses, beverages, pastries, lunch items, fine crafts, and live music. You might not be interested in buying vegetable plants but it's a great way to mix with the locals. High tunnel technology has made fresh greens for winter farmers markets possible.

There are cheese, wine and ice cream trail maps available for each state. I might not like all the local wines but some of the wine tastings are very interesting. Hermit Woods is practically in downtown Meredith NH and uses local ingredients. If beer is more to your liking you can take an escorted beer tour of Portsmouth NH. The foodie tour of Portland ME's Old Port area wasn't one of my favorite but it was pretty good.
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Old Mar 12th, 2016, 03:14 PM
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Thanks so much to you both - dfrost, that is tons of very helpful information! I'm hopefully talking to my friend tomorrow so we'll see what sounds good to us both. If we do Boston, I had thought about taking the T to a suburb or somewhere to make the car easier (and hopefully cheaper), but hadn't thought about the bus - thanks for the reminder!
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