Need itinerary help: Southern Utah/Northern Arizona

It sounds like you have a fantastic trip planned. Monument Valley is spectacular to look at, but I don't think you will have much opportunity to hike there. If you are coming from the Capitol Reef area, take 24 east to 95 (which is spectacular) to 261 (Moki Dugway, 3 miles of it is unpaved and an E ticket ride) to 163 in Mexican Hat. Just a couple minutes off 95 is Natural Bridges NP where there are some nice hiking opportunities. Off 261 are Goosenecks of the San Juan which are very interesting to see and Valley of the Gods (a mini Monument Valley). I have some pictures of these at www.flickr.com/Photos/emalloy2009/sets in the 2011 set if you want a look.

I would say that one day is plenty for Monument Valley. As for the South Rim if you hike down a way and along the rim trail probably a day and a half will do it, but of course if you hike more you could spend much longer there.

Antelope canyon in Page is a winner, and a look at Horseshoe Bend and the best Dam View are good for a quick look too. There are half day boat trips on the Colorado River from Glen Canyon Dam to Lees Ferry there that are a fun ride too. Pictures of these are in my 2008 set I think. If you can't get lodging in MV, there are places to stay in Mexican Hat ( 30 minutes north) and Kayenta (30 munutes south)

If you go to the BLM web site, you can get information on permits for the wave and the other hiking trails in the area, some of which do need permits. I think there are a few permits that are issued last minute and would guess that if someone did not show up to pick one up, you might get lucky.

Have a great trip

One night at Monument Valley should be enough for you. Access to non-residents is limited and there's only one hiking trail there.

I did a little research into The Wave before deciding that I really didn't want to hike alone there. It sounded like there was a decent chance of getting a permit to hike there. Please post about it if you do end up hiking there.

Sounds like you'll have a great trip. Enjoy!

A good place to stay in Valley Of The Gods is "Valley Of The Gods B&B" You have to make reservations months ahead.

emalloy, after looking at your beautiful photos, I'm convinced that it's worth seeing Natural Bridges, Goosenecks of the San Juan, and Valley of the Gods. But if I do that, I'll be going "clockwise" around the Northeast side of Glen Canyon to get to Page, instead of "counterclockwise" around the Southwest side, through Freedonia. That's actually a shorter route. But as a result, I may miss Kodachrome Basin (unless I do it as a day trip from Boulder/Torrey), and US-89A between Freedonia (which is supposedly scenic), and possibly my opportunity to hike The Wave. Is it worth it?

Another question: when you say the unpaved part of 261 is an "E ticket ride," I think you're talking about the unevenness of the road, rather than steep dropoffs by the side of the road, right? The dropoffs don't bother me, and I'll be driving a rented SUV, so I'm not overly worried about dirt roads. But if it's really bad, I wouldn't want to bust an axle in the middle of nowhere.

Shanti, just curious, why did you decide you didn't want to hike The Wave alone? There's a good chance that I'll be doing this trip alone, and therefore hiking alone (with an overabundance of safety precautions).

Thanks!

One other question while I'm here: when driving from the South Rim to Flagstaff, does it matter if I go East on 64 through the reservation via Cameron, or South on 64 via Williams?

I prefer the drive to Cameron and then south. I think it's a prettier drive and I like seeing Sunset Crater along the way. Kind of like seeing an old friend again -
http://www.nps.gov/sucr/index.htm

On my last trip we stopped (and stayed) at Cameron Trading Post. I must have their fry bread on my mind but the restaurant there is good and their fry bread with honey was the best thing we ate on the whole trip.

I vote for adding in the North Rim if you can find the time. We spent the night there in a cabin and just REALLY enjoyed the difference between the North Rim and the South. It's what I always imagined a national park looking/feeling like when I was a kid. Not much input re hikes but I did take the ranger led walk to the point (using no lights) and that was an amazing experience. At the edge of the canyon with no light, except the moon and the stars was a very different experience. Your senses shift and I heard sounds I never noticed during the day. LOVE the North Rim. The campground there is nice too.

"Shanti, just curious, why did you decide you didn't want to hike The Wave alone? There's a good chance that I'll be doing this trip alone, and therefore hiking alone (with an overabundance of safety precautions)."

It's a pretty remote area. It was a combination of concern of what would happen if I got hurt, I wasn't sure if I was in good enough shape to do it, and being female (all of which makes me nervous to be out in the middle of nowhere solo). And it turns out I didn't have enough time to go everywhere I wanted to go, so I ended up dropping this area of Arizona from my trip. But even if I had had the time to go there, I would have skipped it for the above reasons.

But it sure does look beautiful.

hawksbill, the unpaved part of 261 has some very tight switchbacks and no guardrails most of the way. When we went down it, it had snowed the day before and the parts that were in shade were still a bit slick. We never did slip or slide, however, we did not go very fast.

The B&B that Stud mentioned is right off 261 as you get into Mexican hat. We have never been able to stay there as it was always booked when we were there.

VoG takes only an hour or so to get through, Goosenecks even less unless you spend a lot of time taking pictures.

I also prefer going in/out of GC from Cameron rather than Williams. Much prettier ride and the drive south on 89 lets you visit Wupatki ruin and Sunset Crater.

About the wave, it looks fabulous, but I wouldn't want to be there alone either. I'm a geezer so I won't even try it with a group. I'll do a 3 mile hike but not an 8 mile one in. Perhaps there will be people at the BLM office where you get the permits who would be happy to hike with you. This part of the world is beautiful, but there is often no cell service, maybe a sat phone would work, so if you got into trouble you could get help. I think of the young man who was hiking in Canyonlands Maze district and got his arm caught in a rock fall and had to cut it off to get out.

It is hard to decide which area to go to which makes it necessary to plan another trip. That's what we've been doing for the past several years.

Enjoy the voyage!!

Shanti, those are certainly excellent reasons for skipping The Wave. I actually haven't researched the hike well enough to be sure that it's within my capabilities either, and it would certainly be a bad thing to get stuck or lost out there. If it's 8 miles each way, that would be much too far for me. Doesn't this map make it seem like it's only 5.5 miles round trip, with a six-hour estimated hiking time? http://www.zionnational-park.com/map-paria-canyon.htm

For those who haven't seen photos of The Wave, here's a great set, from the same web site as the map above: http://www.zionnational-park.com/images/album2/index59.htm I find the photos to be just incredible. There's something that really moves me about the crazy, kinetic energy flowing through the lines in those rocks, combined with the majestic permanence and immobility of the rocks themselves.

Thanks to all for the additional suggestions. Cameron it is.

hawksbill, this photo - in the Huffington Post, of all places - is what first got me interested in going there. I wanted to stand where that hiker was standing:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/26/9-of-the-weirdest-alien-l_n_510511.html#s75611&title=The_Wave_Vermilion

I think it's about six miles, round trip, to The Wave. It's a wilderness area so there aren't signs. I was very concerned about getting lost so gave up on the idea. But looking at the photos, I can't help but hope that maybe I'll make it there some day. Who knows?

hawksbill, this is what wikipedia had to say about the wave


The trail begins at Wire Pass Trailhead, about 8.3 miles (13.4 km) south of US 89 along House Rock Valley Road, a dirt road about 35.4 miles (57 km) west of Page, Arizona or 38.6 miles (62.1 km) east of Kanab, Utah, that is accessible to most vehicles in good weather. During and after a storm the road may be impassable, even with a four-wheel-drive vehicle. Wire Pass Trailhead includes a wide parking lot with restrooms, but no water. It is also accessible from the Arizona side by taking U.S. Highway 89A from Jacob Lake on the Kaibab Plateau towards Navajo Bridge on turning north onto the House Rock Valley Road soon after descending from the Kaibab. This is a much longer access route over dirt road than from the Utah side.
From the Wire Pass Trailhead, The Wave can be reached by hiking approximately 3 miles (4.8 km) across open desert, making the round-trip to and from The Wave a nearly 6 miles (9.7 km) hike that climbs about 350 feet (110 m) in altitude. Temperatures in this area typically climb above 100 °F (38 °C) in the summer, so it is best to start the hike early. Anyone attempting the hike in any season is wise to be prepared for harsh desert conditions, including fierce winds, blowing sand, and little shade.
The Wave is challenging to find. In an effort to maintain the natural integrity of the region, there is no formal trail to The Wave. Most hikers are guided to The Wave either by GPS or a prominent landmark known as "the Black Crack," which is widely visible within the Coyote Buttes region. The Wave lies directly below the Black Crack. Hikers must choose their own route across the open desert, which requires traversing exposed sandstone, sand dunes, and sandy wash bottoms. It is not uncommon for hikers to get lost and never find The Wave. Guide sheets with color photos are available to assist hikers in navigating to The Wave at the Paria Ranger Station.
In past years there have been a significant number of Search and Rescue Operations conducted by both the Coconino County Sheriff's Office (Arizona) and the Kane County Sheriff's Office (Utah) for persons lost during the over-land hike to and from The Wave. Visitors are advised to take particular care in their navigation, carry a topographic map, compass and GPS and use them in the course of their excursions. The changing appearance of the terrain as the direction of the light shifts seems to be a important factor in a number of incidents. Any lost or missing persons should be reported immediately to either Sheriff's Office as the response time for SAR personnel to the area can be protracted. (It is best to call early and possibly have to cancel the response, rather than wait, which may cause the SAR operation to be conducted in the dark or after inclement weather moves in.)

I haven't done The Wave, but have tried unsuccessfully a couple of times to get a permit. Your chances are less than 10% of doing it online(according to my calculations). You can also go directly to the visitor center and they give out 10 permits a day there in addition to the 10 online permits. The online permits usually have about 200 applicants per day or so. Especially during the prime hiking times. There is probably less in the cold winter and hot summer. I haven't tried the "in person" attempt, so I don't know how many show up to that each day.

I have stayed at Valley of the Gods B&B. We are not into B&B's but it was nice. We did enjoy Goosenecks and Moki Dugway. We really enjoyed Natural Bridges. Sipapu Bridge is really a great span. Almost as good as anything at Arches National Park. I am not a huge fan of Monument Valley.

Here is a link to a few of our pictures from The Four Corners area a couple of years ago.

http://spirobulldog.shutterfly.com/pictures/8

I really like Goblin Valley, Little Wildhorse Canyon, and Horseshoe Canyon(canyonlands detached area). Horseshoe canyon contains The Great Gallery wall of pictographs/petroglyphs.

I think the biggest challenge to The Wave would be route finding skills unless you have a GPS. I don't think it is that difficult or long. I think that there is little shade and it would be a hot hike at certain times of the year.

you can get on youtube and see many videos of hikes to the wave.

Hi

DH And I hiked to the wave in February 2008. We hired a guide who, while expensive, was well worth the cost. We were Easterners, not familiar with slickrock; without our guide we never would have dared to walk up and down the slickrock like mountain goats. Additionally there is the main wave and then there are a couple of other formations nearby - I am not sure we would have found them by ourselves.

The hike is completely non-technical, no excessive climbing, no steep descents and only about 6 miles round trip. The difficulties are 1. the complete lack of shade (until you get to the wave itself, where there are opportunities to sit in shaded areas)and the sun is intense, 2. the anxiety of wondering whether you are actually on the right path and 3. the potential to get lost - do you have a GPS, are you good at map reading/orienteering, are you good with a compass? They will provide you with maps and photos of landmarks, but some people are more adept at this than others.

? Would we have found the wave without our guide ? - I think the answer is yes. The more problematic question is would we have found our way out without a guide ? - that I am not so sure about. I think we would have been so preoccupied with navigating to the wave that we would have forgotten to turn around and study the landmarks from the reverse direction. The key area being when you cross over the ridge through a saddle, soon after the second sign in book. When you are coming back, there is more than one point where you see a saddle area - should you head towards this one?

Chances of getting a lottery slot - hmmm - October is a popular month, depending on your flexibility with the day you opt for (you can try for a max of three days) you can increase your odds. I looked at the lottery applications for July; they are truly discouraging - very slim odds (but I can't imagine wanting to do that hike during the summer months - it would be brutally hot). October should be somewhat better (both oddswise and weather wise) but still a long shot; the BLM says about a 10% chance but I think it's less than that. The one thing you have going for you is that you are a solo hiker - when they draw for the 10 openings, if they draw applications totaling 9 people, then they will keep drawing until the get a solo hiker application.

There is also showing up the day before at the Paria Ranger Contact Station, for the lottery for 10 spots for the next day. Again this depends on your flexibility of schedule.

And if you decide to try for an application and you don't get one, there is one more technique to possibly get a permit (other than the day before lottery method). If you decide to try, let me know and I can e-mail you the technique - I used it to get a permit for March 2010 when I didn't get one through the lottery.

Here is a link to a great site that has the GPS locations for many of the wave features, plus a great arial google map of the route, with accompanying photographs along the route. I would think carrying copies of the google earth route map blown up to good detail, could be very helpful with navigation.

http://www.thewave.info/CoyoteButtesNorthMap.html

The wave is truly spectacular and it will always be one of my all-time favorite hikes.

Pamela

Eveningcrane, thank you so much for that thorough, detailed, and incredibly helpful post! And that excellent link too. I will certainly have to ponder this more. I'm confident that I can last six miles out in the sun in October, and I do have an excellent GPS device that should get me where I want to go. But if it fails, would I trust myself to get back to the trailhead using just a compass and topo maps? I'm not so sure.

I will certainly try to find you if I do try to get a lottery spot, and fail, regarding the "alternative method." I do have one question, which I have a feeling may relate to that method... if I want to hire a guide, would I have to sign up for a second lottery spot for my guide? Or do guides somehow get their own permits through a different process?

Hawksbill, when we went, we had a lottery spot for our guide. I am not really sure if guides can get their own permits through some other process. The Paria Ranger Contact station (or the Kanab District office) should be able to answer that question.

I just searched for "guides north coyote buttes" and found this site, that implies that you wouldn't need a lottery space for your guide (or at least that was how I read it.)

http://www.overlandcanyontours.com/Thewave

Pamela

It is my understanding that you wouldn't need another lottery permit for your guide, but you would need one for your party.
I would love to know your third method. email me at spirobulldog@yahoo.com I had applied for one this May and didn't get it. I am still going to the area, so maybe I can still get one?

Hi Pamela,

I'd like as well to know your third method to get a Coyote Buttes North permit. Would you be so kind to email me at selmajorgensen@yahoo.fr

Thanks a lot

Selma

I only skimmed all the above answers, so sorry if some of this is repetitious ...

Is one full day (plus a half day or two) enough for the Grand Canyon?

Sounds like you are in good enough shape to do a rim-to-river and back day hike in October. This will likely be the most memorable hike of your trip, if you decide to do it.

You can do this with just one overnight at the GC if you wish, then drive to Sedona after you get out. I live in Phoenix and many times I've driven up to just south of Tusayan after work on Friday night, slept for 5-6 hours, hit the trails before sunrise and then driven back to Phoenix late Saturday, so Sedona would be easy enough to drive to after a long hike.

So one over-night will be enough (you'll probably we walking funny the next couple days -- the "Kaibab Shuffle" -- but you'll have enough time with just one night there.)

If hiking to the river sounds too difficult (it's about 16 miles down Kaibab and up Bright Angel trails, 4,800 ft drop, 4,400 ft rise) you can do something simpler like down BA to Indian Gardens and back, around 9 miles and I'm guessing 3,000 ft elevation change. Still a great hike, but I'd recommend going to the river if you are in good enough shape.

Is the same amount of time enough for Monument Valley?

You can't hike here without a guide ... the one truly great hike is up to the top of Hunt's Mesa, with the best view in Navajo land, but it will cost you and it's not an easy hike (some exposed areas on slickrock) ... here's the first pic that comes up with a search, to give you an idea of what it looks like up there: http://www.flickr.com/photos/henk-meijer/5862772096/

The absolute best way to do the Mesa is to carry gear to sleep overnight up there so you can photograph sunset and sunrise, but you can do a day hike. You can also drive up there on a long, rough road.

The best hiking in this area is back north a bit on Cedar Mesa, which is BLM land so you don't need a guide or permits. Some great hikes in here to relatively undisturbed Indian ruins, relatively flat so the hikes are not strenuous.

Here are ruins you can access on my two favorite short hikes up there (scroll down to see both places):
http://www.cornforthimages.com/Landscape/Utah/Cedar_Mesa_Ruins.htm This is also where Natural Bridges National Monument, Moki Dugway and Grand Gulch Primitive area are located. A world away from Monument Valley, I've hiked there many times and rarely see another group except at Grand Gulch and Natural Bridges.

I've also seen photos of The Wave, and I'd love to go there if I can. Does anyone know what my chances of success in winning the lottery for a BLM permit are?

Dunno, I used to hike there when you could just get one of the 10 permits on-line by applying 6 months in advance. I've also done the 'wait in line for same day permits' 4 times and got in 3 times, so I didn't think it was too bad. But it just keeps getting more popular ...

Some of the comments I skimmed above about how long or difficult the hike is are wrong. Even with a 50 lb pack we could hike it in about 90 minutes (which probably means it's 2 1/2 - 3 miles or so) and several times we've stayed there until last light and hiked out in the dark. I can see how it's hard to find it going in the first time (a professional photographer friend took me in first trip) but you'd have to be an idiot to be unable to hike back out, there are clear distinct features to follow (no trail) and it's a short hike.

If I don't get that permit, can I still do other hiking in the Paria Canyon/Vermillion Cliffs area?

Yes, no problem. A very interesting hike is down Buckskin Gulch, which shares the same Wire Pass trailhead as the Wave. In places it's 200 ft deep and 3-4 ft wide, very spooky and scenic hike. Also should be easy to get a permit to Coyote Buttes South but it's not as interesting as North.

Like Bill H....I also only skimmed all the above answers, so sorry if some of this is repetitious ~ but would like to add just a little info here about what I did read.

spirobulldog made mention of getting the 'in person' or 'walk-in' permits for The Wave....these are no longer available.

I came across this info regarding the walk-in permits no longer being issued at the Paria Ranger Station. The official BLM website also indicates this change. Just a heads up in case you show up at the Paria RS trying to get yourself a 'walk in' permit that day.

"Effective November 16, 2011 permits will be issued one day in advance year-round in Kanab at the Grand Staircase Escalante National Monument (GSENM) visitor center. The address is 745 E. Highway 89, the phone number is(435) 644-4680. The visitor center is open from 8:00 AM to 4:30 PM seven days a week. The visitor center is on the North side of Highway 89 as you head east towards Page just after the Kanab City Cemetery. If you pass the Comfort Inn you've gone too far. From March 15 to November 15 permits will be issued every day of the week excluding national holidays. During the winter months (November 16-March 15) weekend and Monday permits will be issued on Friday. The lottery in Kanab is held at 9 AM Utah time."

Valley of the Gods is a great place to visit....I was just there last month for the Balloon Festival ...here is what VOTG looks like at sunrise ~
http://www.flickr.com/photos/reddirtdawg/6739855679/in/photostream/lightbox/

Now as far as Bill H mentioning Cedar Mesa for hiking....he is right....best place in the area for hiking to many Anasazi ruins. Trails of ALL kinds....many of which are short easy hikes. Not just on Cedar Mesa but near Bluff, UT on Comb Ridge also.

He is mistaken though about not having to have a permit on the BLM land. You DO have to get a 'Day Use' permit to hike there. Easy to get....here is the info for that ~
http://www.blm.gov/ut/st/en/fo/monticello/recreation/permits/grand_gulch_and_cedar.html

He is a link to more info about that area around Cedar Mesa / Bluff and Blanding. There are many short hikes to ruins to right off of Hwy 95 which is between Natural Briges NM and Blanding. One of those ruins is called 'Flaming House' and is the photo at the top of my site here ~
http://www.beyondmesaverde.com/

Since you also visiting Moab.....there are many short hikes there also 'Corona Arch' http://www.flickr.com/photos/reddirtdawg/2929999154/in/photostream/lightbox/
'False Kiva' http://www.flickr.com/photos/reddirtdawg/2936976052/in/photostream/lightbox/

Here is another link for more ruins.....some of which are also in the Moab area ~
http://www.theanasazi.com/

No matter what you end up doing.....it will be a trip you will never forget.

Maybe I'm reading something wrong. Maybe just a different location? But----

You can still do the walk-in. I just copied this from the BLM site. Here is the link and directions that follow.
http://www.blm.gov/az/st/en/arolrsmain/paria/coyote_buttes/permits.html

Walk-in permit procedures:

Be at the Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument Visitor Center in Kanab, Utah (745 E. Highway 89 in Kanab Utah across from Walkers gas station and Wendy’s restaurant) before 9am Mountain Standard Time -Utah- (9am Daylight Savings Time in summer).
Walk-in permits must be paid with either cash or by checks. No credit cards can be accepted.
If there are 10 persons or less seeking permits, you will be issued one on the spot for the next day.
If all ten permits were not issued the previous day, a same day permit may be available.
If there are more than 10 persons seeking a permit, there will be a drawing for the next day's 10 open slots.
Only one person per group may enter the drawing.
If you receive a walk-in permit, you must wait two weeks before you can re-enter the drawing.
Walk-in permits for Coyote Buttes South will be issued through the walk-in lottery process as described above when necessary.

And since this post is about a year old did Hawksbill ever do a trip report?

(Bill_H) is mistaken though about not having to have a permit on the BLM land (on Cedar Mesa). You DO have to get a 'Day Use' permit to hike there.

reddawgdirt, thanks for the correction ... I haven't been up there on the mesa in a few years and when I was last up there I only had to get a permit for Grand Gulch, so thanks for the update.

spirobulldog made mention of getting the 'in person' or 'walk-in' permits for The Wave....these are no longer available.

Sounds like they are still available but at the main office in Kanab instead of at the ranger station near White House trailhead, right? This is how it used to be done in the winter (had to go to Kanab), now it seems like they are making you do it all year round for some reason.