CurioiusG1

Hi all,

I am totally confused! AFter much searching, we reserved a "condo" (room with kitchen?) at the Napili Kai Resort for one week next February. It is an oceanview unit (according to the reservationist, no oceanfront was available). I did this through the hotel/resort website and used the reservation phone on the site. Rate is $340/night.

Today, in my poking around I units for rent at this resort at what looks to be an independent rental agency (Aloha Condos) and the prices are significantly less! I also found some units at this resort offered on the internet directly from the owner of the unit - also less than booking through the resort itself.

Can someone explain how these places work? Is it better to book thru the resort (more money - do you get anything for it?) or is it better to go through an independent agency? If you book through the resort, how do you know which unit you're getting (updated, etc.)? I am so confused!

I'm also a little irritated that I booked a room for more than it may be worth - can I cancel my resort reservation and book directly? (is that okay to do?)

This whole process of two sets of prices - one from the owners and one from the resort - seems a little skanky to me, unless you're getting something for the extra money.

Help! Thanks so much!

dmlove

I don't know what you get for the money, but I do know it's a common practice. We often rent in Tahoe, and renting through the resort-specific rental agencies is always more expensive than going directly through the owner, or through an off-site agency. The reason it's more is that the owner pays a heck of a lot more commission to rent through the resort-agency (50% at one ski resort we go to) -- for that they get the benefit of renting their unit out more often, and doing less work to get it rented. Again, I don't know what the advantages are to the renter -- we have never noticed any difference in our stays (and we've been doing this for 20-odd years).

beentheretwice

I agree with DM, and will add that renting through the commercial venue may include cleaning fees. As always, be cautious about the hidden fees and a al carte add ons. Once you have a key, whether it is through the owner or an agency, I've never had any difference in experience.

janewb

To add to what has been said so far: I think when you rent through an agency, you will ALWAYS pay the cleaning fee and ALWAYS pay the sales tax on top of the rental fee (if they apply). If you rent through an owner, I think you can negotiate more regarding the rates and fees.

If you rent through an agency however, there may be an advantage to having someone available nearby if you have a problem (lost key, or a problem with heat/AC or anything). An owner may live somewhere far away and may be hard to reach.

I would not hesitate to cancel and rebook thru the owner if it would save me money.

nytraveler

Renting through the agent always costs more because the agent has to be paid.

Generally the benefits are:

Agent is on the spot to make sure the unit is cleaned before you arrive

There is a simple means of picking up keys/gaining entry

If there are any problems - plumbing or bugs or whatever, the agent is on the spot to take care of it

If you rent privately the owner may be thousands of miles away - and depending on others to clean, repair and make sure there are no issues (if they do this properly it should be OK - but many private owners skimp on this - and if a problem arises you can be stuck dealing with it)

So - if renting privately - make sure you get lots of info and references.

auntiemaria

It's similar to booking a hotel room -- highest rate will almost always be the one quoted by the hotel's reservation desk; "deals" are available via travel agents and online purveyors.

Here in the islands, here's the "stack ranking" for rates -- from highest to lowest -- for those interested in booking:
1. The resort itself
But this gives you on-site help, if needed -- and they want to keep you happy!

2. A rental agency
They always have someone who can provide emergency help (like if the toilet clogs, etc.). Law here in Hawai`i requires that any vacation rental agency must be owned AND operated by a licensed real estate broker (not just a real estate agent). Unresolved complaint against an agency, will result in that broker's loss of his/her real estate license.

3. VRBO
Rates may be lowest, but the risk is that you'll get what you pay for...i.e., no recourse if something goes wrong. And your only recourse for legal action, is to file suit IN Hawai`i.

marilynl

The theory is that the actual owner charges less because they are not paying agency fees. Renting through an agency or the resort itself SHOULD mean that you are guaranteed a unit, whereas renting from the owner means that, in the event of some problem with the unit, you will not have back-up.

I have often rented directly from owners through vrbo.com. Usually the experience has been fine, but sometimes owners demand things I consider to be unreasonable. Separate cleaning fees are a per peeve of mine--this should be included in the rental fee, because I certainly expect a professionally cleaned unit on arrival.

I've been going to Tucson for spring training for a few years now, and people all seem to be requiring a refundable security deposit p to 3 months in advance, in addition to the rental fee. This makes no sense to me. Why should I give someone the use of my funds for such a long period and depend on them to refund it in a timely manner? Renting from a resort or company, the most that has been asked for is a $200 check to hold but, importantly, not cash unless there is actual damage.

I agree that renting from a private party can result in some unpleasant surprises. For example, my rental in Tucson last year contained not a single sheet of toilet paper anywhere in the two bathrooms!

lcuy

a little correction regarding Haawii rentals; the owner needs to have a manager physically on the island where the rental unit is located. this is so you can get in touch with them locally, and if you have to sue the owner, you can serve them through their local manager.

The manager does NOT have to be a licensed real estate broker though. As long as the manager only handles the rentals for that one owner, the manager can be unlicensed.

One other reason for renting through the resort office is that since they manage many units at teh same spot, they will have the ability to switch rooms if yours is a dog. They charge the owner a commission, the websites or Travel agents also get a commission, so of course the rates will be be higher to the extent that the landlord thinks he can recoup some of these costs. At least with the resort, you should find standard rules that will comply with state law, and you have some indication that the unit is a legal vacation rental. Owners can put some pretty weird provoisions in their leases.

Some times an alternate agent may offer the resort units for rent at a lower price, but be careful...they may not actually have the exclusive on the units, so the price they show will be meaningless if the unit is already booked through teh resort.

The main thing though is that you trust the person or the agency. One thing I think we've all learned from Fodor's; you can have a great experience even though a unit may be very unprofessionally run, and you can have a horrible experience at the fanciest, most established places. Check their recent references!

lcuy

whoa...sorry about all the typos above!!

GoTravel

The onsite property management company will run their rentals more like a hotel than condos.

By renting through the onsite agency, you'll probably have daily maid service, linens, towels, 24 hour front desk, etc.

By renting through the owner you'll have none of the above.

Barbara5353

I won't rent unless I have seen photos of the specific unit. I also want to know its location in the complex...how far to the pool? parking? I usually have my best luck going through smaller on-island agencies, such as Aloha Condos that you mention. Although I haven't used them, they have a good reputation, and do have pictures of each unit. I have had MOSTLY good luck with vrbo.com, also.
One bad experience, though, and I am more cautious. I lost a key to the pool area and could not reach the owner or the alleged on-island manager.
I now make sure the owner has a local agency (not just one person)...most of them do. One disadvantage to going through a private owner is that cancellation and payment policies are more stringent. Totally understandable, since they only have the one unit to work with. Flexibility is important to me when I book far in advance of my trip. I don't mind a $50-$100 cancellation fee if plans change...but some require a 50% non-refundable deposit upon reservation. In your situation, I would see if one of the Aloha Condo selections meets my standards and dates, then I'd cancel the reservation made directly with the resort.

Leburta

I have a unit in a resort here in Honolulu that I rent directly periodically -- otherwise there is an on-site rental company that handles it for me. Here are what I consider the pros and cons of renting from directly from an owner:

Pros:

• Usually much less expensive as the owner does not have the same overhead expenses as the agency. Also, the owner who rents directly does not have to split fees with the agency.

• Some fees negotiable, depending on how much the owner wants to rent the unit at the particular time you need it.

• More personal contact possible prior to your checking in.

Cons:

• Normally owners don't take credit cards. Arranging for payment of the large sums can thus be inconvenient for a renter.

• A large security deposit may be required by an owner (also an agency for a long term stay) where a hotel with higher rates may not require a security deposit (with the security of your credit card information). While I have encountered some reluctance on the part of renters to give me, a perfect stranger, a large deposit, no one has ever refused to pay it.

• Owners will not be availble for check in at odd hours like an agency or hotel operation (some condominiums are run like hotels here).

• Daily maid and linen service may not be available through an owner.

• Replacement and repairs may be slower with an owner (who has fewer resources) than with an agency or hotel with staff right on the spot

As a person who has been a landlord and a renter of vacation apartments, I would add this caution: the internet has made acquaintences of strangers near and far. As Lucy has mentioned you need to get references before you send your money, whether to an individual or to an agency. I am continually amazed at the number of people who will send me large deposits without asking for references or information about myself. To rely just on trust is courting disaster. Remember that once you send your money, it can literally be gone unless the person or agency you are dealing with is reputable and honest.

CurioiusG1

wow. I am totally turned off by this whole condo idea. In terms of asking for references from the resort - it did not even occur to me to ask for references from a hotel(as I would not ask for references at the Sheraton or the Hyatt!) I booked the room thinking this was a resort - yes, some rooms have kitchen facilities but I thought they were owned by the resort. (we've stayed at hotels in the caribbean that have kitchenettes but are not privately owned condos).

So, I guess my options are to keep it as it is (rates include maid service - but I thought the entire place had maid service!) or cancel and find a suitable unit in the same complex for less money and similar terms. I may just end up cancelling this entirely and just staying at a traditional hotel. It would be nice to have a little kitchen, but this condo-nonsense is turning into a hassle trying to figure out who has the best rate, checking references, etc.

I guess I made the mistake in assuming that when someplace bills themselves as a 'resort' they are just that. But I guess I don't know what their definition of resort is. What does that word mean today?

For those of you who are familiar with Hawaii and the Napili Kai "resort" - is it a hotel or not?

I am so bummed. Thanks, though, for the info - helps me to look at my options (best part about this board!).

ttt

dmlove

Curious, I just re-read your original post, and that, together with your last post, lead me to believe you really don't understand what you're getting! You wrote in the first post that you reserved a "'condo"(room with kitchen?)". A condo shouldn't be in quotes, because a condo is a thing - a type of real estate ownership. In a place like Napili Kai, each unit is owned by someone --- imagine if each room at your local Marriott were owned by an individual ---- so they're individually maintained and decorated. Every one will be different. They can be a room (with or without a kitchen, although most in hawaii will have a kitchen), or they can be more like a large apartment (the ones at Kaanapali Alii on Kaanapali Beach can be 2000 square feet). The "common areas" - parking, fitness facility, grounds, pool -- are typically owned and operated by the Homeowners Association, which in turn is run by the owners of the units.

That all said, some "condo resorts" are often run like hotels, in that they have a front desk, maid service, etc., and others are not run like that -- you are just renting someone's vacation home, you get the keys from them, and it's up to you to keep it clean. I don't know which category Napili Kai falls into.

dmlove

Curious, have you read the reviews of Napili Kai on Tripadvisor? I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

CurioiusG1

dmlove - you're right - I really didn't know what I was getting in this reservation. I assumed (incorrectly) that this was a hotel with rooms/units that had small kitchens; not that each one was owned by someone. My concern in this is exactly as you say - how do you know what it looks like, the quality of the accommodation, etc. With each one being different, how does one decide?

That being said, I have looked at the reviews on tripadvisor and they are favorable, so I'm hoping we will be lucky, too.

I guess I'm stuck in the dark ages and enjoy the relative safety of booking at a traditional hotel. I'll try to keep an open mind and hope for the best!

So - my question remains - why are these places called resorts?

thanks again (for your patience!)

dmlove

Well, some of them ARE resorts - they have swimming pools (not like a pool at the Grand Hyatt with slides etc., but often a very nice pool), are on golf courses and tennis courts, have nice grounds, etc. How do you define "resort"?

dmlove

Curious, did you rent a particular unit? If so, you might be able to get pictures, maybe from the owner, maybe on TripAdvisor, etc.

CurioiusG1

I guess I define resort as somewhat more upscale than a hotel: lush grounds, nicely appointed rooms, nice pool, restaurant, lounges or bar or beach bar, concierge desk, etc. Maybe I am in the dark ages!

Re renting a particular unit - the answer is no because when you reserve through the resort directly (either on the web or on the phone) you generally cannot specify a specific unit*(see note) - you are only reserving a category of unit (beachfront, oceanfront, etc.). They will note your preferences (for example, I asked for a unit on the 2nd floor - I don't want to be ground level), but do not guarantee them. They assign the unit based on availability on check-in. *Note: they will guarantee you a specific unit of your choice in advance with a one-time, non-refundable premium payment of $350 (this is in addition to the rental rate). (needless to say, I didn't go for that!)
Is this a common policy?
I've read over my posts and I guess I sound pretty crabby and picky. It's just that like so many of us, our vacations are few and far between and we want them to be as special as possible. Thanks again for listening to my rants and answering my quetions!

bassharborbaby

Interesting thread but please don't confuse vrbo (vacation rental by owner) with vrbao (vacation rental by absent owner). Some owners *do* reside on site - much to the chagrin of those who are thinking party vacation. Seriously, this means that the broken refrigerator will be fixed/replaced and provisions will be made to store your food. In terms of deciding, you should be able to contact the owner by phone for more info. Ask about linen, maid service. credit cards or anything that is essential for vacation happiness. Look for membership in organizations such as the Chamber of Commerce or Tourism Association. Don't assume that the agent or realtor is on-site.

Curioius, if you have cancellation privileges with the condo then IMHO, that justifies the additional cost. Owners usually have one unit so they can't afford to be flexible with deposits. The Resort itself has lots of inventory and a front desk. The 'extra' is peace of mind. Your mileage may vary and have a great vacation.