Mole people in tunnels in NYC

Like anything else in NY, you just learn to ignore it.

The same way we walk aboveground, knowing that homeless people sleep in doorways and otherwise on the streets, as they do everywhere. At least the subway dwellers have shelter. BTW, there's a fine bus system in NYC if you want to avoid the subway...

Ann,
Please do not discrimnate against the Mole People! They have a rich and colorful history here in New York. Come to NY and meet them - visit their neighborhoods down below, enjoy their tasty cuisine and absorb their amazing culture! And remember, Mole People are people too! With the exception of their pasty white skin and bulging over sensitive eyes, they're just like you and me. So head to NY and enjoy the tapestry of people that make this city great, including the MOLE PEOPLE!

I have a sneaking suspicion that AMS and Noah were once mole people. Renegades that they are, they escaped to the topside and are now wreaking a different kind of subversive havoc.

I'm not a resident of NYC but visit there quite regularly and in my hundreds of subway rides have never been aware of these subterranean dwellers. As the previous poster pointed out, yes there are homeless people living in a variety of difficult circumstances in NYC (as in any other major city) but I've rarely seen them in or around subway stations and almost never riding the subway itself. Furthermore, the subway system extends to all five boroughs of NYC but the typical visitor (including me) rarely rides anywhere but within Manhattan from 95th street down. Having ridden subways and public transport in Boston, Philly, San Francisco, San Diego, Toronto and Montreal (among others), I can attest that for all practical purposes the NYC subway system is safe and pleasant. Yes it's a bit noisy and could be a trifle cleaner but when one considers the age of the infrastructure and the number of daily riders it's truly miraculous that it's as efficient and pleasant as it is. Get a MetroCard pass and enjoy the ride - there's no better way to get around in NYC (except walking - always the best in my book).

Sounds like a scene from the Childs/Preston book.... Yes I remember it clearly "Reliquary" Pasty faces, bugeyes, yep! thats them!!

You must be refering to the book "The Mole People" by Jennifer Toth. She wrote several books of non-fiction including this one which details the people who live in various underground locations in NYC (or so she claims). The most interesting is the very large community she says is living 7 levels below ground in family units. They have a mayor and schools and everything she says and many of the people were born underground and have never seen daylight. Toth is a reporter from LA and this book is listed with Amazon.com (and gets lots of good reviews) but there are also web pages debunking her and saying all this is fiction.

I can't say anything about the mole people and I kind of think they don't exist. However, on my last trip to New York City I noticed quite a few homeless people one level up, living and sleeping in cardboard boxes in New York subways. The majority of these people, in fact, I think all of them were African Americans. I recall even seeing some elderly women. The post--slavery era in New York City is clearly a hoax.

So African Americans living in the subways are evidence of ongoing slavery in NYC? Wanna explain that one?

Does anyone remember the movie about the mole people? I think it was made in the 60s. I have seen it about three times. I thought they blew up the moles' home in the end. I guess, the mole people left for New York after their home was destroyed.

I have been to NYC a few times and have ridden the subways and seen the homeless people. I have no doubt that these books, movies, and TV shows (remember Beauty and the Beast with Linda Hamilton?) are based on reality. They are the NYC street people who are black, white, and every other race. They are poor, sometimes alcohol and drug abusers, sometimes mentally ill, sometimes just people who have had an incredibly bad stretch of luck. These people have homes where ever they can - including sub levels of the NYC subway system.

Ann - Please don't let your concerns over mole people in nyc keep you from visiting what I consider the greatest city in the world. I'm heading back to the Big Apple in June and I can't wait, mole people or not!

TW - can you really visit the mole people? Are there organized tours or something?

I gre up in NYC, though now reside in Southern CA. I took the Subways regularly for 15+ years and have no idea of what a mole person is. This should be the absolute least of your concerns when visiting NY. There is so much to do, museums, broadway, central park, shopping, Ellis Island and the subway/public transportation is the ONLY way to get around. If you're concerned about safety read up on practical safety measures when in a big city like NY. I'd not give a second of thought or worry to Mole people.

Check out the web page at http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/rails/mole-people.html which is called Fantasy in "The Mole People"
by Joseph Brennans who works for Columbia University. It's an extensive article but what he saysat the beginning is: "Here's the problem in a nutshell: every fact in this book that I can verify independently is wrong. I'm referring to her descriptions of the tunnels. "I hope to dismiss the myth of animal-like underground dwellers", writes Jennifer Toth. But the book is full of myth. "

Oh sure - there are tours. My favorite is through Down Under Tours. Its a half day walking tour throught the dark dank tunnels of subterranean NY. They provide the rubber boots and a boxed lunch. You get to see all the Mole hot spots, and they have arranged a quaint demonstration of Mole children doing their famous "Dance of the Mole Children." Don't forget to tip the kids, as the underground economy is not what it used to be and they can use anything you can spare.

And beware of venturing off of the path of the tour. Those tunnels can get confusing, and you never know when you might run into an alligator. Wrestling an alligator is not my idea of a fun workout!

We went on one of these tours on our last trip to the city. I must say we were pretty disappointed in the experience.

We used Mole Hole tours and weren't happy with the tour, the guide or the food. For one, it was very dark and our guide moved us about very fast - so fast that we spent more time checking our footing than looking for Moles. And our guide didn't even speak very good English (though the brochure promised he would). He spoke sort of half English/half Mole so I'm sure we missed out on some important imformation.

And our guide would not let us use flashes on our video cameras (said it would hurt the Mole people's eyes). Well, I'm sorry, but if I don't have a tape to watch later, I don't feel like I've actually been there.

And the box lunch? Might have been good if we hadn't have been mugged by hungry Mole children immediately after opening it. How rude! I came to see them dance, not feed on the lunch that I paid for.

All in all, I'm glad we did it, but would not use Mole Hole Tours again.

Brian,

I'm sorry that you were unhappy with your tour, but you really shouldn't be surprised at the way things worked out. Everyone knows that one cannot truly appreciate the Mole lifestyle unless one spends some real time among the Mole people. Breezing in for a day (or night -- it's all the same to the Mole people) is just not the way to do it. Next time, think about staying in a Mole B&B for a few days. Eat their food; don't bring your own (that is just so rude). And learn a little Mole, for God's sake. As for taking flash pictures, there is a way to do it. Just use the red-eye function so that your camera flashes three times instead of just once. This gives Mole eyes time to adjust. And don't forget to ask their permission first, as some Moles are ashamed about their translucent skin and so are reluctant to be photographed.

FYI, there is another company (family-owned by local Moles) offering tours and educational seminars. If you really insist on only superficial exposure to the culture, you might try it. They can be reached at www.molesandvoles.org.

Be sure and get your shots if you plan to stay at a Mole B&B. I hear there's been a terrible epidemic of mole-aria.
And if you really like the mole children's dances, get a ticket to the deep chasm ice show, featuring Dorothy Hammole.

You know, I was just browsing the internet the other day when I read about B.D. Eise, this world-famous mole-lecular biologist, who lives and works out of the underground tunnels. Turns out Dr. Eise is quite the expert on the physiology of Mole People. Maybe you could visit his lab for a real Mole experience--I hear he's quite testy, so you might have to mole-ify him before a visit could be arranged. Perhaps by providing a nice meal of char-grilled Prime NY Rat?

To the top.

If you can't find a tour, just stay home and catch the closest facsimile from your desktop:
http://www.si.edu/organiza/museums/zoo/hilights/webcams/molerat1/nmcam.htm

Dear Friend,

Indeed there are people living in the tunnels below New York City. I was brought up below the 34th Street area by my single mother. Many of us (Afro Americans) lived anywhere from 6 to 10 stories below the surface. We were proud living below the city, making it on our own. There was almost a tribal system of laws and customs in the caverns. Much of the crime that existed up top did not take place in the caverns. The chief, at the time his name was Umar Ugandi, dealt strictly with any criminal acts (using the eye for an eye rule).

My most horrible memories were of the floods. The rain washing in from up top would cause enormous flooding to the unsecure areas of the caverns. Many babies and pets were washed away and lost in these floods. They are very hard to think about.

I remember the day my mother was sent to serve the tribal chieftans and sent me on my way. I remember how my eyes burned on the vey first day I saw the sky. I remember the first day I met people of different color, how amazing it was.

Maybe one day I will return to the caverns, the hustle of the tribe, the culture of the people below. I urge you to explore the undercity. It is an amazing and wondrous place.

Best Regards,
Armund

We'd be remiss if we overlooked the patron saint of the Mole People: Moliere

And the Mole People will have their very own United States senator after the next election: Rudolph Moliani.

Ah yes, the mole people. I had the good fortune to live with the Mole People for 12 years. i can assure you, Ann, that there is nothing to fear from these gentle evolutionary misfits. the average mole person is only about 3 to 4 feet tall, with short legs and long, strong forearms. Their diet consists of the mold grown in huge colonies, along with rats and the occasional alligator. They have a thriving culture, based on Grublug, the god of darkness. Also, having participated in the Dance of the Mole Children, i can attest that it is not as easy as it looks.

I wish you folks would quit acting as if Mole People were figments of someone's imagination. I used to be a Mole Person no kidding. No, I was not cast from any special mold -- it was enforced because of financial reaons. Years ago in Washington D. C. (not NYC) there was a cheap housing area inhabited by young people who were just starting jobs, were students, or were people who had no job at all. The area is located near Dupont Circle in DC. I don't recall the name of it unless it was Hardnette Hall.
But my room was below street level. I had a window that opened into a semi circular dugout area lined with bricks that enabled me to peer up at pedestrians' feet and car tires.
At least it was cheap and gave me a place to sleep until I got a raise and could move to better quarters.
It was while living there that I learned that Mennens Spray Deodorant was very effective at killing roaches. The first time I used it was an act of last resort to defend myself from the aggressive attack roaches that had evolved there.
(They had big molars so I did not want to get close enough to hit them with a shoe.) Fortunately, the spray was effective and became a standby. I had two cans; one for me and one for them. But occasionally a two can defense was necessary.
Because the wiring was substandard, blown fuses were common which caused prolonged blackouts.
At least the sanitary facilities worked, usually. And there was a shower.

Dang! You people are scary...

I can't read this posting at work; I laughed so hard I cried and my tears fell into my keyboard...and I got fired.
This is one of the funniest postings ever...

I can tell you for a fact that the Mole people are real because I adopted two Mole children. (They prefer the term Sub-Level Underground Group, or "SLUG"). It has been a rewarding experience, but difficult at times. There have been all of the nosy questions ("Why do you keep the children in the basement?" and "Where did you find 240 sunblock?"). It is hard for me to answer these questions while my children are around, so I usually just brush them off and change the subject. But when my two beautiful Moles wrap their frail stubby arms partly around my neck and rub their slippery little cheeks against mine, I know I did the right thing.

The adjustment has been trying, but it helps that my husband and I went down among the Moles for several weeks as part of the selection process. We had to explain why we wanted a subterranian adoption, and we had to pledge that the children would never work for the circus or appear in any cheap movies. At first they were suspicious of us, but we convinced them that we were truly sympathetic to their plight. (By the way, I actually liked the food down there. The grubb was really quite good.)

We have our worries, of course. There are so many things that cause them trouble. They are both deathly afraid of heights, of course. And the teasing at school has been merciless. Taunts of "Fishbelly, fishbelly, I know what you ate last night" just reduces them to tears. Children can be so cruel, you know. In dodge ball, the other kids aim right for their heads because they know my kids can't see the ball coming, unless it is pitch black outside, of course. And don't get me started about tetherball.

Well, anyway, wish us luck, and thanks for listening.

Of course, they ride in "auto-mole-biles", wear "moleskin" boots, play "mole in one", and usually die of "mole-aria". Anyone from NYC knows to ignore them.

With apologies to the "I was drunk" thread on the European forum --What is the appropriate dress for visiting the mole community? Will I look out of place in a pink running suit or white tennis shoes? I don't want to be labeled as an American tourist? Also, do the mole people take U.S. currency? If not, do you know the exchange rate? Do they have ATMs? Can you recommend some restaurants that the locals prefer? We want to avoid the tourist traps.

The currency is the sa-mole-ian.
Don't even mention traps, tourist or otherwise, around the mole people.

Jean,

Crunchy pink running suits are just fine, even preferred. The better to see you in, my dear. Whatever you do, DON'T wear black. There's not much light, and the Moles won't be able to see you coming. One doesn't want to blend in too much. One morsel of good news, however. Moles LOVE washcloths! Big, soft, cushy, fresh-smelling ones. When you arrive, you are issued a fresh washcloth for each day you'll be visiting. They even use them as napkins!
You'd better bring your own pillowcases, though.

When is the rainy season in Mole land? We are considering some excursions. If it rains, will we be reimbursed or get a rain check? Is it better to wait and buy the excursions when we get there? Are the lines long? Will I be pegged as a tourist if I wear shorts? Do I need to get any shots first? Is there a web site with an advisory for mole land? Do I need a passport? Should I take my own water? Do I need to bring my own toilet paper? Will I be allowed to bring my 75 pound golden retriever?

One thing's for sure - above ground or below, EVERYBODY loves Haggis-in-a-Tube(TM)!

How about mole in a tube? Wouldn't that be what people from the UK would call one of these subway dwellers anyway?

What do you call this situation? Moles running rampant in underground New York? I say it is a real "molestation."

You people are making a mountain out of a mole-hill.

Only a few people on here seem to have taken the original question seriously...
Would someone please give us evidence as to the truthfullness of this?
By the way, do you think any of the mole people (if there are any) have a webcam? Thanks.

I'm wearing moleskin pants today. Very creepy.

You've picked the very best time to visit the Mole People, as they are in the midst of joyous celebrations throughout this Mole-ennium Year!

Just when I was about to give up on the US forum as a hotbed of cranky, nasty, paranoid, judgmental nutcases -- you people redeem the whole thing with this great thread! Thanks!

However, I'm surprised no one has talked about the King of the Tunnels, the Beast (FOC -- friend of Catherine). He is now major producer for Stomp, a percussion group that got its start on his TV series hitting rails and pipes so that the mole people could echo-locate.

To the top...

This would all be a lot funnier if there weren't, in fact, a group of people who do hide in the subway tunnels. You may have seen a recent TV documentary on the subject, showing their alcoves and heaps of raggedy belongings.

These are "fringe" people -- like street people with many of the same problems: they generally have poor mental health and often intellectual deficiencies, with no way to solve their own problems of life, like holding a job or applying for welfare or whatever -- AND SO they have no place to live.

Because the transit and metro police try to rout them out of their hidey-places (thinking they pose a danger to trains in motion), any paranoia already there is just made worse. Down there they are protected from weather (it's never more or less than about 55 degrees, wet but it doesn't snow) and from people chasing them off park benches or steam grates.

The thing about NYC or most any urban area now is that there are incompetent, "fringe" homeless everywhere. If it bothers you enough to change how you think about tourism in such destinations, perhaps it will bother you enough to help find a humane way to shelter such people where they can do themselves and others little harm.

Does anyone remember a 3rd rate sci-fi flim called "CHUD" ?

Dr. Tom:
Nothing mole-icious was intended by the foregoing posts!

I have to agree with Randy that this thread isn't trying to make light of social problems in NY or any other city. If anything, having lived in NYC for 7 years, I have to laugh at the idea that mole people might be the most "creepy" thing one could encounter in the city. If Ann thinks that mole people she'll never see are the worst thing she'll experience in New York, maybe she shouldn't go there at all.

The Sunday (4/30) NY Times had an item about a documentary film opening at the end of the summer:

DARK DAYS

Homeless people living in midtown Manhattan train tunnels. It won two prizes at Sundance.

In case anyone is interested in who actually lives under NYC and why. I also recommend the book Grand Central Winter, by a former addict who lived onder Grand Central Terminal and turned his life around through writing.

Welcome back, dear moles!

I recent read an interesting book called The Tunnel which had many large black and white photos of men (and one woman)who live in the train tunnels in NYC. It was mostly a photography book and it's recent (like a few years old at most) but it also tells the story of many of these men. Most of the men were either illegal immigrants from Spanish speaking countries or black Americans. Many had drinking problems.
They say they stay there cause its warmer and safer than being in the streets. Some even try to grow a few plants under places where a bit of sun comes through! And they decorate the houses they make on the inside (some of them do). The book is really well worth reading and its a serious book. These people really are down there but they are not moles.

"Dark Days" won the biggest awards at Park City film festival. Here is from a review of the film: The films director (Singer) started hearing wild rumors about the tunnel squatting communities and his curiosity piqued, he ventured underground, eventually focusing his attention on just one tunnel that stretches north from Penn Station past Harlem.

Instead of the cannibalistic sub-human race lurking in Gotham's bowels popularized in urban myth, Singer found a handful of troubled, endearing people with a humbling ability to survive

Dearest ann,
You must not come to NY. We mole people--by the way we are stockbrokers by day, thats why market closes so early--prey on innocent young things like you. When we are not munching on your bones, we are getting you to invest in internet funds! If you are unlucky, you could actually become rich & have to pay $3000 in maintenance to live in a milion dollar studio once thought habitable by our close cousings the
subterranean kvetcheronians.
Thank Mole u didnt come before visiting the forum

Hey can I rent one of those studios? You see I am a humble British billionaire interested in luxury accomodations in NY. I have already been advised that the Plaza is not worth the $$$. Now I need to find a place that will impress the socks off my companion. One that has a modern jacuzzi, post 1990. Are there any subterranean luxury digs available?

Sending this back to the top!!!!!!

Actually, there was a film many years ago documenting this very same subject, its title is "C.H.U.D." and is likely available in most rental shops (it may be mistakenly under the Horror section).

Anyway, this will give you the real scoop on the folks living below the city streets, their stuggles to stay alive, and their tactics for survival. You may want to watch this before booking a trip out to the city.

Please ignore the immature, sad individual who is trying to use my screen name above. Some people on this forum are absolutely unbelievable. They should spend some time on the European pages, they might learn some manners.

Merc: The subterranean luxury studio you're looking for is probably located at Trump's Mole Palace, deep in the bowels of Midtown. Interestingly, its lobby is located on the "top" floor, with descending floors bearing higher numbers. Indeed, the penthouse is in the sub-basement. When it first opened last year, savvy New Yorkers could not wait to "get down". Now, there are several other luxury dwellings available, but the Trump Mole Palace remains about as low as you can get.

Come on down!

I do apologize but I'm just not familiar with this AMERICAN style of humour.(Yes, I am assuming that you are American, because you're certainly not European!)

Merc,

In that case, let me just tell you that I have read with interest the many postings to you on your Plaza thread. A few people were being mean, but many were being either helpful or kind of amusing. You bristled way too much, dude. The folks who post here aren't here to serve you; they are here to get information, give information, and have fun in the process. Relax, and banter back a bit. You'll like it.

I think I'll leave that to the experts. I'm here to give and receive information which is accurate and helpful. I am certainly not here to be served on as you strangely put it and neither do I expect to read messages which are rude,full of sarcasm and attempt to belittle people. This is not what this forum is about.Humour is one thing, but there are numerous messages which have gone way past that.

Hey, who stay hu-hu...wassa deal?
Get one Hawaiian kine answer hea... Take one trip to Molokai!

KN!,

Any chance you could find the Personal Trainor thread and send it up? I've heard good things, but I just can't seem to discover it.

Thanks.

i was raised the son of poor mole sharecroppers. please help me!!!!!

The Personal Trainor was an EMail. I will try and copy/paste if no-one else has a problem with that on the board. I thought it funny and when I forwarded to a few people in the office you could hear the choir type laughter. Let me know. I could add it to this one or set up new.

Sure, go ahead and post it as a new thread. I guess there's no sense letting it get in the way of the Moles.

Thanks.

Here we go again! I must tell all of you Uplanders that I am just sick to death of all of your sick little jokes. We Moles are honest, hard-working law-abiding people, and we just can't get a break. Do any of you sun-lovers send your kids to school with our kids? Do you hire us? Do you invest in our moister communities? Of course not. All I ever see is a few of you who come down following some traitor running a pointless tour, shining those darn lights at us and wrinkling your little noses. Do you ever question anything you are told on these tours? You should. I have heard stories about us Moles that are just bald-faced lies, I tell you, and you all just swallow every word. So let me say this: just go back to where you came from and leave us alone!

I am a mole by marriage, I have a fine husband, he's a good provider and father for our two little mole children, Oogle and Google. Even though I was born "up top", I have completely assimilated into the underground way. I home school several of the neighboring mole kids, teaching them not only how to obtain and prepare food down here, but also about the strange bright land up above. They are free to go up at anytime, but 95% choose to stay down. I would welcome any skeptics to visit us and be our guest for a week or so. Sample my homemade worm pie pate', its the best! Not enough is known about us, it is an acquired lifestyle and environment. Please call me at 1-555-WAY-DOWN to participate in our toplanders/bottomlanders exchange program. It'll turn your life topsy-turvy! Love, Mrs. Moley

I am Noach. I grew up in the mole tunnels with AMS, Maui Heidi and Garden John. See, we're all normal, just like you.

While I have never been to NYC...I am planning a trip to Boston in July.
I have read that the trip from the airport will take me through "tunnels" into the city.
Is it a possibility that I might see a Bostonian Mole person?! Would their appearance differ from the New Yorker Mole? This could be the highlight of my trip.

Souette,

I'm no expert, mind you, but I don't think you will observe very many differences among the NY Moles and the Boston Moles (who prefer to be called "BMs") just by looking. You would really have to mingle with them to pick up on it. The main difference is in the accent, with the Boston Moles having difficulty with the pronunciation of the last letter in certain words, such as "car." There are similarities, however. For some reason, both the BMs and NY Moles seem to believe they reside at the center of the universe. Very strange.

Mole people are people too. I always have a bag of crumbs on hand during my subway rides. Never know when you they will come in handy.

This one was kinda cute.

Uh, never mind.

Too funny!

This is the funniest thread ever!

The Mole People by Jennifer Toth was a wonderful book that gave its readers incredible information about the underground. The book was written like a documentary, aimed to inform more than to entertain. Describing the scene she was witnessing, Toth gives her audience a clear picture of what underground life is really like. I think that Toth did an excellant job incorporating the facts along with the stories; making the book a very fun read. Some chapters were committed completely to statistics and opinions of the aboveground variety, while other chapters told the real life stories of inhabitants of the tunnels. The Mole People was fascinating in the sense that it introduced me to a way of life that I never even knew existed. The tunnels underground New York City are filled with thousands of homeless people; some living as far as seven stories beneath the street. With separate communities, some even including doctors, teachers and mayors, the people who live in the tunnels are all unique. Some of the mole people, as they are referred to by those uneducated about the underground, are very independent of each other, while others rely heavily on their tunnel neighbors. I was greatly impressed with the research tactics that Toth used to get information for her book. Risking her life hundreds of times, she traveled deep into the tunnels to speak with all kinds of the underground population. It's an incredibley interesting book that will definitely open up any eyes to the importance of the mole people.

Annie, I suggest you read the web page at http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/mole-people.html

which makes it clear that Jennifer Toth's research methods includes making up stories about places she visited that in fact don't exist.

The web page's author, Joseph Brennan, gives a detailed analysis of the fiction in Toth's book.

In the late '80s and early '90s, there were some parties that were sponsored in the East Village where you had to climb down through a manhole into the party area. I don't remember anyone ever coming across any of these families of mole people.

ttt

It just saw a listing in my cable guide for a A&E Biography special Avogadro: "Chemist of the Moles".

The idea of C.H.U.D.s (Cannibalistic Humanoid Underground Dwellers) is actually based on fact; while Hannibal Lector doesn't prowl the number 6 subway line, there are thousands of people living beneath New York streets, populating the city's labyrinthine subway tunnels.

Big Chief Productions Takes on an Urban Legend
By Laura DiBenedetto
November 09, 2001 02:46 PM PST

"Oh Homer, of course you'll have a bad impression of New York if you only focus on the pimps and the C.H.U.D.s."

-- Marge Simpson, "The Simpsons"

New York City has always been viewed with a mixture of fascination and disgust. Home to the Great White Way, site of recent terrorist attacks, place where the Mets and the damn Yankees hang their hats, and where urban legend says the C.H.U.D.s live.

The idea of C.H.U.D.s (Cannibalistic Humanoid Underground Dwellers) is actually based on fact; while Hannibal Lector doesn't prowl the number 6 subway line, there are thousands of people living beneath New York streets, populating the city's labyrinthine subway tunnels.

"We knew there were pockets of people living down there," says Tim Miller, president of Big Chief Films. "We wanted to see if we could identify these individuals and track their stories."

"We've all grown up, especially those of us in NY, with the urban legends," says Steven Jon Whritner, co-executive producer and VP of production and development at Big Chief. "People flushing alligators down the toilet; alligators living in the sewers. Then there are these 'mole people' or C.H.U.D.s. The angle we took was to draw out the human stories from the legends."

I saw a show called "Mole People: Life in the World Below," a documentary produced for the Discovery ChannelThe mole people used to build shantytowns down there, there were walled rooms, couches, ovens, pianos, and children -- there were several well-organized communities. Some more towards the surface; some further down, hard to reach. The show said there were probably 5,000 to 6,000 people who lived below Grand Central and Penn Station alone. You can imagine the people who live in the fringes; there are six to seven hundred miles of subway tunnels.

ttt

If anybody cares -- the culture that produced this wonderful thread is what was endangered or lost with the advent of registration for his site.

And: Dan Woodlieff: was the movie title you were looking for in 20p2 "El opo"? It was midnight movie in the 60s or 70s. Dirctor/star - Alejandro Jodorowsy.

Trust me, it's a lot easier to handle the mole people than all the corner bodegas around here.

I would like to think that Joe Buck and "Ratzo" are down there, after getting off the bus to Miami and returning to NY city. I also imagine the choice of brew down there is Molson Golden Ale.

Ah yes, the mole people. I encounter them more in Manhattan subways than I do in Brooklyn subways. (Maybe because there's a better chance of getting food in Manhattan!) But it's better to deal with them than those annoying guys on the subways selling trinkets and yelling in broken english "one dollar, one dollar"

If anybody wants to investigate this 'urban legend' any further, try this website:
www.molepeoplemovie.com

I like the way they uncovered (pun intended) a 3 year old post.

I think this thread wins for funniest and most bizzare thread on fodors.

I do love my Oil of Molay- who needs the expensive stuff when this works just as well? I also married a former Mole. I am proudly...drumroll.... Mrs. Joel Mole. Our son is Cole. Anyhole, I gotta goal. Atoll!

It's pretty funny, but I still like "I Was Drunk the Day My Mom Got Out of Prison" and "How Much Should I Tip the Pilot" better. I've got both of them saved to word, so if anyone wants a copy (they're loooong) email me and I'll be happy to send it to you.

Marilyn!!!

Good to see you posting again!

Feel free to send me the threads....I have to go to sleep so I can visit the mole people after work....

I would just like to thank all the toppers and contributors to this thread.

My wife (who incidentally has read the MP book) and I havent ever had this big of a laugh this early in the morning.

Viva la fodors!

TTT

Topping, why should this thread sink? Not because the mole people live underground, I hope.

Old joke:

Springtime, and a family of moles is emerging from its burrow after winter hibernation.

Daddy goes up first, takes a deep breath and says "I smell spring!)

Mama squeezes up beside him at the burrow entrance and says " Mmmm, I smell spring too!"

Junior, struggling to pass by his parents so he can come up too, yells " Well all I can smell down here is molasses"

Are these moles second cousins of all those in Molvania?

Is someone comparing the NYC subway system to an obscure ruritanian principality (a truly valid comparison for all I know)?

(Both populations are probably equally in need of modern dentistry - but I guess the ones living under the Broadway local have a better chance of capturing their own DDS candidates.)

I missed this informative post in it's heyday. We're off to NY Christmas Day and maybe we'll get lucky and encounter one

Happy Holidays, All!

I recently saw an interesting documentary called "Dark Days" about the mole people or tunnel dwellers of NYC. The film maker, Marc Singer, literally went down into the tunnels and interviewed them and filmed them living their day to day lives. Some of them even had power and water in small homes they built from scrap metal and wood they found above. They way they lead their lives down there is amazing and the documentary is very interesting.

http://www.netflix.com/MovieDisplay?movieid=60001871&trkid=73

Well, duh. Now I see the film is already discussed in the thread. Never mind.

I live in New York. My only problem with the mole people is that they don't pay taxes due to the underground economy they have. Makes it harder for the rest of us.

I have a sneaking feeling that there are certain Mole people who have access to computers down there...they have been seen posting here, late at night, early in the am..beware.

Now Scarlett, do not confuse "moles" with "trolls".

This is a frequent misconception. Trolls live under birdges and love to talk about travel, particularly dicussions about things like babies on airplanes....

Moles, of course, can not travel above ground except at night, thus, they have less interest in this board.

Mole people do indeed exist under the city & I've seen them many times. On my first trip to NYC, I was visiting with a friend who had moved there from TX. She had advised me not to speak to the strange folks who lived down there & I didn't know exactly what to expect. On one occasion, late at night, we were returning from the theater on the subway & realized that we didn't know which train would take us back to her apartment, as it was a new location for her. As my friend struggled with the maps & the hour was getting later with fewer people about, I saw one of the "mole people" leaning against a wall watching us. I went over to him & asked for his assistance in finding the correct train for our location. The fellow was very helpful, articulate & we could tell very knowledgeable about the different routes & schedules. He refused the dollar bill that I offered but waited with us until our train arrived because we were obviously becoming more frightened. Some are a bit "different looking" - this one had deformed "flipper like" arms, but they are human beings & appreciate being treated with respect & kindness just like the rest of us.

On another occasion & I've posted this before, it was Mother's Day & one of the "mole people" came up to me & asked if I was a mother. I replied that I was & I had a son about his age. With that he handed me a lovely red carnation, got down on one knee & sang "Happy Mother's Day To You" while wide-eyed commuters went around us. We were both crying & I've often wondered if this young man was ever able to sing his little song to his own mother. Only in NYC!

I am sure that many get Molen-choly at this time of year.

Is this for real, or is everyone just really good at keeping a fodors tradition alive? I dont expect a straight answer even if it were fiction, but this stuff is really interesting. How far do these tunnels go down? What do they dress in? This is just too bizarre to be real.

Alisa, it can also be Molen-Wholy, Molen-Holy, or simply holy-moly

These folks, in my opinion, are very real. Their clothing is kind of unkempt & not real clean but you see that on the city streets too. I don't know about any particulars or anything about the tunnel statistics but you can definitely spot the people who appear to live down there.

They must smell mole-dy!

Transplants from Molevania?

Hey, here in Chicago they just found a guy living in a drawbridge, yes, in the bridge and he had a tv, vcr, xbox, microwave the whole shebang so this isn't too surprising, troll, mole or otherwise!

I've heard of folks who just like to "go along for the ride" but this is really carrying it to the max.

Yep, to the max-a-mole-ion!

I have to assume most people on this thread are joking. I have lived in NYC all of my life and have never heard of mole people. As to homeless people, like any big city in any nation, there are homeless people here. Is that a surprise to anyone? But I do agree, NYC is easily the greatest city in the world!

TTT for Larry1

Haven't read the book.
Just wanted to add, if no one else has already, that NOT every book sold in the U.S. as non-fiction is non-fiction.
In the late sixties and early seventies, there were books out about such topics as flying saucers, space people building the pyramids, Abominable snowmen (also "little red men of the delta") and the Bermuda Triangle which sometimes were touted as non-fiction.
According to one author there is a world of people living in the center of the earth.
In most of these books, the reader was left to "solve" the mystery that "science had not yet explained."
Not all the authors were from the U.S. Some of them were European and I don't know if their books were labeled fiction or non-fiction in other countries.
As I stated in the beginning, I haven't heard of the book prior to this thread, but my guess it is similar to the ones mentioned.

Oy - this is so silly.

The book was nothing about actual moles - or people who were part mole. It was simply about homeless people who took advantage of the subway tunnels to have a warm place to stay in the cold weather. The "mole" reference was never meant to be taken literally - but unfortunately there are many people who seem to delight in being as gullible as possible.

(I once rode with a cab driver in Kentucky who was absolutely convinced that Satan lived in the basement of 555 Fifth Avenue - never mind that I told him 3 separate times that the space is actually occupied by the E and F trains. If people insist on believing in this type of silliness - frankly there is nothing to be done for them.)

Sorry - the address was 666 - how could i forget the "significance" of those numbers?

Some of my favorite investment advisors are among the group mentioned.
M

Topping for CaliNurse

Thanks for topping Faina! Now I'm worried--I have a mole, first discovered in NY, that the dermatologist wants to biopsy.

Unlike many threads that periodically get unearthed, this one is truly legendary and deserves special recoginition.

Anyone who can read this thread and not laugh is a true gomer.

http://www.moviemonstermuseum.com/molemen.html
I remember Superman helping the little guys, so it's got to be true.

Oh, CaliNurse, aren't we alike? My mole TRAVELED from Belarus through New York as the port of entry to San Francisco, and the biopsy was negative, thank God!

Does this give me the right to join the army of the Mole People

I never order chicken with mole sauce at any Mexican restaurants in NYC for obvious reasons.

I'm really disappointed: I've been to NYC and knew nothing of this. Didn't Mickey Mantle trip over some kind of hatch on the turf at Yankee stadium thus prejudicing his career? Was this a secret entrance to the tunnels? I'll have to look harder next time I'm there.

Matt

A useful documentary may be "The Tick vs. the Mole Men."

You won't find this one on the Sundance Channel. It should be coming on Toon Disney next Thursday.

http://www.thetick.ws/car11.html

Spoon!

ttt

Ha!!

This is nonsense and so is this thread. Ann, don't come to NYC. Someone who asks insulting questions about New York doesn't deserve the greatness that New York offers visitors.

How can we 'stand traveling in the subways'??? Oh yes, the people are in throngs massing around the underground subways with their underground schools, in underground villages.... This has to be the top most ignorant question I've ever seen on Fodors.

who revived a silly 6 yr old thread?! I know that there are no mole people in the bowels of NYC--the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles would not stand for it.

From Amazon.com

The Mole People: Life in the Tunnels Beneath New York City by Jennifer Toth (Paperback - Aug 1995)

Buy new: $16.95 $11.02 Used & new from $6.25 Usually ships in 24 hours
Available for in-store pickup today
Other Edition(s): Hardcover
Excerpt from page 8: "... 8 THE MOLE PEOPLE of broken cinder blocks and clumps of debris and refuge, ..."

This is an ugly subject, but in the interest of public safety it must be addressed. I hope people are very careful when traveling the subways with their families. I bet there a lot of child mole-lesters who live there and just your garden variety mole-lesters. Be careful, people.

clara may be a bit eccentric, but her mole thread inspired me to top this little gem~

I just saw this post for the first time - probably the most non-informed, inane post of all time. There are millions of people who ride the subway day in and day out -- 99.9999% in perfect safety. Mole people? Yeah - I heard about some in Grand Central Station - and some other spots - they don't bother anyone and you'd never know they were there - which is the way they like it. I think they are not there anymore, anyway.

inane????

duly noted//// jroth thinks a thread about the mole people is inane

I think that everyone concerned about these mole people in NYC should definitely stay home - since if they come here they'll end up buying the Brooklyn Bridge, or losing a pack playing 3 card monte on the street, or donate money to the (drunken) college student (ha!) who was mugged and can't get home without a donation of cash.

People like this shouldn't be running around lose.

No. JRoth does not think that a thread about the mole people is "inane". It was the original post that indicated fear to visit the city because of the presence of mole people that is inane. Quite some time ago the Times had an article about this population group in the city - an interesting article.

I have been lving underground for the past nine years and this is the craziest thing I have ever read. And when I emerged and saw what was going on, I decided to mole my way back underground. It was something like the Groundhog and his shadow but I saw people buying coffeee for $5 a cup and tourists with green things around their haeads like Statue of Liberty. People have gone mad. See you again in nine years.

I saw this post and immediately thought of the Childs / Preston book Reliquary, which was mentioned above. Out of sight, out of mind, if they even exist.

I've always loved this post - one of my Fodors favorites - priceless self parodies. Thanks for topping

The mole people have been studied extensively by anthropologists and even sociologists. Their culture is not a simple one. They of course are divided into moles and femoles. This is where the trouble starts. As adolescents the young moles and young femoles go to live in what they euphemistically call "long houses". Actually, they are simply caves and tunnels. There they are free to explore their "young mole subculture." You can only imagine. Some anthropologists have written about their "No Mole Left Behind" program. One of their main foods is "mole' " like for example, Chicken Mple'. It is a chocolate dish w/ chilli peppers. Much like the molicans eat. Invented by the Aztecs. Or something.

Oops. Forgot one thing. One anthropologist who has studied them is Bronislaw Molinowski.

Sobster you forgot some important findings. Their favorite snack is S'moles. This when in the heat of the day left over chocolates melts on styrofoam peanuts. "Yummole," says their favorite cooking show hostess who also lookd like a rodent. And they are fearful of illegals called guaca-moles of taking their jobs.

Dang, Sr. Adu-I wish I had thought of the guaca-mole thing!

Vitamin D deficiencies aside, their skin must be wrinkle free. They could do ad work for Ole of Molay.

well, back to my caramole latte.

Ya know they have "fights" down there. They're sort of like bullfights but of course there are no bulls. Other animals, yes. Anyway, when the "Human fighter" makes a particularly nice "pass" or some really nice cape work the crowd yells "!MOLE'!"

I think you all are full of it and there isn't anything remoletly true about this thread. If they had a government it would have to be a molearchy which is highly doubtful and you all are making a molehill out of nothing. You must stop this moleism. Stop being so moleodic and molelaberate and stop being remoletly. Go back to watching TV with your remolte control or the thermole (a mole of a highly explosive substance) might pay you a visit.

As a psuedo-scentist, I have great respect and use for moles.

As everyone knows a mole is simply a unit of measurement. Units are invented when existing units are inadequate. Yet using absolute numbers of atoms, mole-cules, and ions would be confusing, too.

The great Adam Ian Mole, a member of the Native American tribe the Semimoles, founded the pot mole, and began filling them with mole tar. He did, however, run afoul of the prudes when he created the artifical sweetener mole-asses.

I am European, and with great interest, I have been reading this thread. I had not been to New York for the last 15 years, and even then, just briefly. So I do not know much about New York.

But I have carefully analyzed the posts in this thread and I have come to the conclusion that "Mole people" or "C.H.U.D." must be immigrants from Europe who have kept their native lifestyle after arriving in America.

In Europe, there has always lived a race of people who are "living in darkness, pale, sensitive to sunlight and feeding on human blood".

The ancient Greek governor Phlegon (under King Philipp of Macedonia) has written about an undead lady who regularly emerged from her grave in order to visit her fiancee at night. Philostratos wrote about "Empusa", a pale lady who used to feed on "beautiful and young" human bodies because "their blood was fresh and clean".

Many great European writers like Goethe, Byron, Hoffmann, Heine, Mérimée, Gautier, Baudelaire, Comte de Lautréamont, Gogol, Tolstoy wrote about those people whose offspring have obviously migrated over the pond to New York.

I strongly suggest that your former President, W., who has now retired, should pay a visit to the C.H.U.D. in order to improve their living conditions. They might like him.

Rush Limbaugh has come forward to be the Voice of the Mole People (formerly known as Conservative Republicans)... they are a race of pasty white americans that have been forced underground and are identified by their high-pitched whining... we've come a long way since the original post in driving them away!!!!!

Have been reviewing previous posts and although there appears to be some humorous content - this is a serious matter. First - the actual meaning and derivation of the word "mole". This is a distortion and adaptation of the original hebrew which transliterated is "mohel" - pronounced moyl. A mole (as spelled in this thread) or a mohel is the ritual specialist who performs the ancient Jewish rite of circumcision. Apparently a number of them have gone underground (as noted in the original post) and can be found in places like Grand Central Station. And they do have a mission. And that is to perform this ritual on unsuspecting travelers and visitors to the city. Statistics do not exist on the number of succesful performances of this ritual that have taken place -- but my advice to visitors who are not anxious to have some excess tissue removed - keep your legs crossed.

Funny the moles didn't look Jewish.

>>>to have some excess tissue removed<<<

Is this part of their diet?

How do the mole people fend themselves off against the legendary NYC tunnel alligators?

There is a wonderful / weird BBC series by Neil Gaiman called "Neverwhere" which is about the mole people living under London. If you have Netflix you can stream seasons 1 and 2.

O spose someone should do the moyel thing and cut this thread OFF!

I am going to eat some chips with guaca-mole.

By the way, the moyel cuts something else off not a thread on fodors.

Thanks for the laughs, guys!

Oh my God or Oy Vey.
I hope the original post was a joke on us.
Kind of scary if it was not.

The mole people are legitimized by Stephen Colbert in a recent interview with Jim Rogers, CEO of Duke Energy (from the Charlotte Observer):


"Rogers took the silliness in good humor, 'fessing that coal generates 70 percent of Duke's energy and his belief in global warming. He said Duke has to keep customers' lights on while figuring out how to capture the carbon dioxide that coal plants belch and store it underground.

“Under the earth?” Colbert responded. “Well, then it's the mole people's problem.”