Booklover44

Hello - getting a bit nervous as departure nears and need help/advice with itinerary. I am traveling with 2 teens and a senior, so only easy/short hikes.
For Day 5 we are traveling from Moab to Page, and sight seeing our way there, but where:

See something of the Needles district ( ? logistics, can we just do Needles overlook, or should we go all the way into the park?) skip if too much time? (seems like min. 2hrs, with most time spent getting into and out of the park)

See Natural Bridges Nat Mon - would this be better option than Needles? seems easier to get to the park, less out of the way, and able to see a lot in a short time, but more interested in seeing variety also (seems like 2 hrs with most time spent taking the 9mi park loop)

the bridges route would lead us to take 261 into MV, so we would do the Moki Dugway, otherwise we would take 191 to 163 - would this route add too much time?

then thru MV ( planning self tour ) and on to Page where we would just do Horseshoe overlook, and the rest the next day.

I have a bad habit of over scheduling - but it is all 'on the way' - I should probably cut something out - Needles, or Bridges seem like the obvious, and adding a night would cause too much trouble! Thank you for advice in advance.

tomfuller

Which places besides Arches will you see while based in Moab?
You can probably see what you need to of Canyonlands in the Island in the Sky section from Moab.
If you don't have a full day (at least) to devote to Mesa Verde, I'd save it for another less rushed trip.
Make a few stops along US 163 in Monument Valley. Try to see the Dinosaur Tracks near Tuba City before heading North on US 89 to go to Page.

spirobulldog

I think driving to MV and not doing a guided tour is a mistake(unless your tired of seeing rocks and arches). Do be sure and see The Mittens as you see them in lots of commercials. But you will miss a ton without a guide.

I think the best way to see canyonlands is with www.slickrockair.com. Very reasonably priced for what you get. Ask for an older gentlemen to fly you(I can’t remember his name). He is a former Chief Park Ranger of Canyonlands and is a huge bonus.

www.deserthighlights.com is great in Moab. Your teens would love it. My all time favorite National Park adventure.

I love Natural Bridges. There are three Bridges there. Two of them are good. But, one of them, Sipapu is great. It is as good as anything at Arches. You can see it from the road/viewpoint. But, you should really hike down to it. It is short, but it does have a bit of elevation gain/loss(not super steep though). You do have to go down a short ladder. It is attached to rocks, so it is very stable. Definitely let the teens hike to it if the senior can’t or doesn’t want to.

Moki Dugway is cool. Right near the top of it is Muley Point. A lot of people like it. I don’t think it’s worth doing. Goosenecks of the San Juan is at the bottom of the Dugway. I think it is great thing to see. Really amazing to me. Also there is Valley of the Gods, which is a mini version of Monument Valley.



http://share.shutterfly.com/action/w...0IatW7FqybsWYc
Pictures 1-14 are of Canyoneering
55-59 are of Deadhorse Point
73-86 are of Canyonlands flyover

http://share.shutterfly.com/action/w...0IatW7FqybsWY-
72-103 are of Monument Valley
104-109 are of Moki Dugway
110-120 is Natural Bridges National Monument
114-you can barely see my daughter near the bottom right of pic. She is standing on rocks near the trees.
121 is Muley Point
125 is Goosenecks(far better than the photo)

http://share.shutterfly.com/action/w...0IatW7FqybsWZJ
pictures 1-28 are of Arches National Park
28-47 are of Little Wildhorse Canyon and Goblin Valley(north of Moab)

spirobulldog

Oh, I thought MV meant Monument Valley not Mesa Verde? Now I'm not sure.

Booklover44

Spiro - MV is monument valley and ,from reading other posts, I thought self tour was better b/c we could go at our own pace/schedule? thanks for pic links w#'s great pics! Q's; Goosenecks is on the way, so I don't have to look for signs? We will do the hike to Sipapu, looks like fun and looking into flying - that would be way cool.

Tom - Dino tracks on the way?! Do I look for signs? would like that, how far detour is it? and we are just going to Deadhorse St Pk and Mesa arch in addition to Arches NP

spirobulldog

Self tour is just on the main road. You have to have an indian guide to get off the main road. You might see 1/4 of what you see in my photos if you don't have a guide.

An indian reservation is a lot different than the rest of America. I'm not trying to be mean or rude, I am a card carrying indian myself(everyone in Oklahoma is pretty much). Basically, it is a bit backwards, slower paced life, etc. Some things are better though. Be careful to follow all rules if you go on your own as tribal police can stop you. Some of the guides are boring while others are better. If you really want to see it, then get a guide. If you just want to drive thru, then you'll be fine without one. This isn't a National Park, so do expect to pay an entrance fee even if you have a National Park Pass. Some people consider the area depressed. I haven't been since they have the new Lodge there, so I am sure it is nicer now. It's just the way of life there. I thought lama's on the football field were pretty cool though. The lama's evidentally guard the sheep from coyotte.

Goosenecks is about 10 or 15 minutes from The Dugway. Yes, you would need to know where you are going and watch for signs. I believe it is like 2 miles off the main road(which really isn't a main road).


If you have the time do see Goblin Valley State Park. It is one of my very favorite places in Utah.

If you can be somewhere like Goblin Valley or Natural Bridges at night, the stars are amazing. At Natural Bridges, you are miles away from natural lights, so it is one of the darkest places in the world. You can easily see satellites with naked eye. I would guess that you can easily quadruple the amount of stars you can see. You will be able to make out the milky way, etc. Canyonlands offers a lot of dark places as well. Natural Bridges and Goblin Valley both have huge solar panels that they operate off of.

Have plenty of gas, snacks, and drinks before going into these remote places. They are VERY remote.

InSandy

I think the Needles section of the park is worth it even just to drive in and take a short walk. It is a beautiful part of the park and even if most of the great things there are on a longer hike the drive is worth it. Stop at Newspaper rock as well. Though I can see where this might be the one to go if you think you won't have enough time. I wouldn't bother with the Needles overlook, almost as far and you'll have seen it already from Island in the Sky if you visit there.


And whether Natural Bridges or Needles would give you more bang for your buck is to me kind of a toss up. I've never really got the wow from Natural Bridges. Though Sipapu is certainly a marvel.

Some other places: Stop along the way at Wilson Arch even if for only a minute. Hole in the Rock is also a funky place for a short stop. Edge of the Cedars Museum in Blanding is worth a stop. I wouldn't bother with Muley Point either, but definitely stop at the beginning of Moki dugway, there is a small turnout you might miss if you aren't looking for it. And Goosenecks with have a sign, and a short detour but well worth the 1/2 hr it might take you. If you are looking for Indian stuff to buy the San Juan Trading Post in Mexican Hat would be good.

Monument Valley. There is the paved road up to the viewpoint, visitors center and hotel area. Then there is the 17 mile dirt valley road that you can drive on your own or with a tour. Then there is the backcountry you can only see with a guide. If you are short on time the drive to the viewpoint is worth it. Take a look at the valley from there, get your photos with the Mittens in the background. If you are in a rental car then that is really all you would be allowed to do on your contract. The 17 mile valley road being unmaintained can be a bit rough. And imo not much better views than from the viewpoint, just different angles. So if you want to see it from different angles take the 2 hr guided tour. But if you are short on time this is where I would cut it,,, just do the viewpoint.

Not too much between MV and Page to stop for. Just go the speed limit.

VRTravel

I'm not sure if you are going to Arches or not, but I was just there last weekend and there are many arches right off the road that you stop your car and walk less than a half a mile (some are like .2 miles away) and take pictures or go in them. This would be a great idea and short like you would like. You can even see Delicate Arch (the one on the license plates) by going to a viewpoint. It's only $10 to get in the park and it is absolutely beautiful

Booklover44

Interesting, never thought of cutting MV tour . . . and time will tell if we tour or not. Thanks for Wilson Arch, and other stops - I think - now I have more stops, not less!

and we are going to Goblin Valley on the way home.

emalloy

We've done a MV tour and also stopped on our own. There are a few places that we visited on the tour that were different, but not really very much more wonderful than the views from the road or the VC. The tour we took was one that we signed up for right at the parking lot and our guide was ok, but didn't seem to know about all that was there, we pointed out some pictographs to him that he was not aware of. To see the most interesting places I think you need a guide that will take you by yourself into the really off the path places. If you are pressed for time, I would skip the tour.

If you go to Needles, the short hike to Cowboy Camp loop is interesting and there are nice pictographs of hands just beyond the camp. The petroglyphs at Newspaper Rock are very neat, look for the footprints with six toes. One of the Tony Hillerman mysteries had a professor looking for them. Being booklovers too we usually read one or two of them to get into out west mood before a trip.

spirobulldog

With our guide we saw Sun's Eye, Ear Arch, and many many others. We wouldn't have seen these without a guide. I think you have longer or shorter tours, we did a longer one.