Help Planning Foliage Trip 2012

way too much ground to cover. skip cape cod...many things will be closed already.

where are they coming from?

they could fly into PVD, MHT, or BOS on southwest. if they chose PVD, spend a few nights in newport visiting the mansions. then drive up to boston for a few nights. head up to the white mountains. leave out of MHT, or if they have more time, continue to burlington and fly out of PVD.

niagara falls is way out of the way.

another option after boston would be to head to salem, then portland maine, and then up into maine for foliage.

rizzo0904, makes sense to me! My feeling was skipping Cape Cod but everyone always wants to visit there.

They would be flying from Dublin, Ireland so would guess they would be flying on Aer Lingus (or AA). If they flew into NY, which is what they want to do, I guess they could take a train to Boston, rent a car and head north to NH & Maine. I need to better define an itinerary for them, e.g. how many days Boston, Portland, NH, etc.

They would have to return rental car in Boston and go back to NY for flights. This is what is driving me crazy! I can't connect the dots.....

May

P.S. I agree on Niagara Falls also.

If they don't rent a car in NYcity, they could fly in and out from there, spend a few days using public transportation, then take the train or one of the very inexpensive busses to travel from NY to Boston. Visit Boston using public transportation, then pick up a car and do the foliage trip. I think most of the people here would agree that having a car in either Boston or NY is not a good idea. Parking is very expensive and they have fine public transportation.

If they really want to go up to Bar Harbor, they should realize that it is a long way up the coast, would probably take a day to get there if they stopped to look at anything along the way. There is rocky coast on the north shore of MA, not as spectacular as BH but very nice, say on Cape Ann.

Go through NH and VT for foliage and then if you really want to do Niagra , go there and back to NY. This would involve drop charges for the car, otherwise do a loop through NH and VT, back to Boston drop the car and bus or train back to NY.

Do let them know that busses from NY to Boston can be as low as a couple of dollars if you book early, check Bolt bus or Megabus.

The reason you're having a problem is the trip makes no sense as they want to do it. I would fly into Boston, see Boston and rent a car from there (cheaper than renting in NYC) and drive a circle from Boston nw toward Burlington, Vt. then head souteast north to Bar Harbor, ME and then back to Boston and return the car.

If they want to see Niagara Falls, the only way that makes sense is by plane. They can get a one way flight from Boston;, after dropping the car, to Buffalo, NY and either just spend the day seeing the falls and then a one way flight to NYC from Buffalo, or they can stay in Niagara or Buffalo overnight and fly out the next day. Fly to NYC and go home from there.

The additional cost of the open jaw ticket is not likely to be that much more than a longer and more costly car rental from NYC and having to backtrack by car wasting a lot of time.

I agree with the others on pretty much everything. First of all, try to convince them to drop Niagara Falls. Tourists always make the mistake of thinking that since it's in New York state, it must be near New York city. Not even close. It's way too out of the way and adds way too much driving time to the itinerary (a very boring drive, at that). Niagara Falls is much closer to Buffalo, Toronto, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and even Detroit and is much better combined with a trip to these cities, not the East Coast. Besides... I personally find the falls a bit overrated, but that's just my opinion.

Aer Lingus usually does have pretty cheap flights to Boston, but if they really want to see New York, then the easiest and cheapest option would be to take a bus to Boston from NYC. There are a lot of cheap buses, but Megabus is the one that I always use. If they book early enough, they can get tickets for as little as $1 - $9 one way.

Once they get to Boston, I'd get a rental car and head north. Boston and NYC are going to be the last places to reach peak foliage, so they should be saved for the end of the trip. Unless they don't really care about leaf-peeping in the cities, in which case they can just leave earlier in October and visit the cities before they begin their foliage tour in earnest. Do they have set travel dates yet?

The fall colors arrive first in the White Mountains of NH, so this should be their first stop with the car. There are a number of towns they could use as a base. Lincoln is the closest to Boston and a convenient base; Franconia, Bethlehem, and Twin Mountain are also fairly straight shots from Boston on I-93. On the other side of the mountains, North Conway has a lot more shopping and activity, while Jackson has a more quaint resort town feel.

If they want to see Vermont, they can get a fantastic "taste" of the state right over the border from NH. Peacham, Cabot, and Grafton State Forest offer some really quintessential Vermont scenery without the tourist crowds of Stowe and Woodstock. This could be an easy day trip from the White Mountains. Although Vermont is better than Maine for foliage viewing, if they really want to see Bar Harbor and Acadia then I think this little "sample" of Vermont should be sufficient.

I would suggest three FULL days in the White Mountains. If they have extra time, they can hop down to the Lakes Region and see Sandwich, Wolfeboro, and the Castle in the Clouds.

If they want to see Acadia, they'll spend a large chunk of their next day driving across Maine to get there (I'd suggest Route 2 most of the way there, vs. Route 1 along the coast on their way back to Boston). Then they'll need a full day to explore the park.

On their way down the coast back to Boston, I'd recommend two overnight stops. The first would be in the mid-coast area (Camden, Damariscotta/Pemaquid, and Boothaby Harbor are all good choices depending on how far they want to drive). Continuing down the coast with possible stops in Portland and Kennebunkport, I'd suggest another overnight stop in Portsmouth, NH. (Although I'd love to work Newport RI into this trip, I'm not exactly sure how to do so, and Portsmouth is the best substitute... minus the mansions).

From Portsmouth to Boston, they can take the backroads through the North Shore, seeing Newburyport, possibly Rockport, Salem, Marblehead... before arriving in the city.

I tried to keep this itinerary as close as possible to the 2-week limit, although I think realistically they'll have to go a couple days over to really enjoy the region. If they're comfortable with the hotel prices, they should add more days to Boston & NYC.

Day 1: Arrive in NYC, take bus to Boston, stay in Boston for night.
Day 2: Rent car and head north to White Mountains in NH.
Day 3: White Mountains.
Day 4: Day trip to eastern Vermont, back to WM for evening.
Day 5: Day trip to Lakes Region, back to WM for evening.
Day 6: Drive to Bar Harbor, BH for evening.
Day 7: Bar Harbor & Acadia.
Day 8: Bar Harbor to Mid-Coast area (Camden, Rockland, Damariscotta, Boothaby)
Day 9: Mid-Coast area to Portsmouth, NH.
Day 10: Portsmouth to Boston via North Shore.
Day 11: Boston.
Day 12: Boston.
Day 13: Boston to NYC.
Day 14: NYC.
Day 15: NYC.
Day 16: NYC to home.

Note that this itinerary is dependent upon their travel dates. Peak foliage colors are usually visible in the White Mountains anytime during the first two weeks of October, depending on the year and the elevation. Most people hedge their bets by coming during the first weekend of October (the Columbus Day holiday weekend). In my experience, the coast of Maine usually hits peak by the third week of October, with Boston not reaching peak typically until the last week in October (although this year, with its unusually dull and late colors, peak foliage is happening in Boston right now!)

IMO what you NEED to do is explain to them that open jaw flights are not necessarily any MORE expensive than closed jaw ones. They should at least LOOK at the price differences between flying R/T into NY vs. an open jaw into NY and out of Boston.

If they remain adamant then tell them they are going to HAVE to perhaps use the shuttle between Boston and LaGuradia and then take a taxi to JFK or take the train to NY Penn and then a taxi...have them factor THOSE costs into the plan of open vs. closed jaws.

Look, a good "travel agent" which is obviously what you have decided to DO for these people (and they are sitting back and LETTING you do it) would tell any client these same things and no, they aren't going to cut you off, never speak to you again, and all that other "fear" BS..at least not until AFTER you've sweated out all the arrangements.

Be sure your friends are using the "multi-city" option on airline websites to find open-jaw flights, not two one-way tickets.

Your outlier is Niagara Falls. Is' a 9 hour drive from NYC and I think even longer form Boston. If that has to be part of the trip then they will need to drop some other places.

NYC up the coast makes sense - then they could drop the car and fly back. Or, if they want to do NYC, VT, NY and NIagara Falls it might make sense - but they can;t go in all directions at once. I would suggest they don't get the distances involved - many people from europe underestimate the size of the US and the distance between things.

Also, you need ot take into account when they will be coming - you don;t have great color anywhere for 3 weeks - so they need to plan either to start in the north and head south or start inland and then head to the coast - so they get mostly good color and not bare trees.

Finally if they really want Niagara Falls (I dn;t get it - but know europeans seem to love it) you need to check on when thngs start to close for the season. If you're talking end of Oct you ma be too late for NF and will be past good color almost everywhere.

Since I don't believe it costs more to fly to Boston than to NYC from Ireland I put in dates next Oct and got the following on Aer Lingus: Dublin to Boston, return from NYC 620€, RT Dublin to NYC 610€, RT Dublin to Boston 630€. So tell them this, clearly they have not really researched flights yet. (BTW those are great prices,they should book as soon as their dates become available, right now only through Oct 6 but in a few weeks all of Oct will be bookable).

New York City to Niagra Falls is about an 8 hour drive. Even longer from Boston to Niagra Falls. Really try to get them to skip this.

Fly into Boston, spend 4 nights, THEN rent car

Drive up the coast to Acadia -this could reasonably be done in as little as 4 days, but longer would be better and I agree they don't really need to go all the way to Acadia. As far as Camden Maine would give them great scenery and the last stretch up to Acadia is not all that much different and takes a long time (relatively). Most interesting places: Glouster/Rockport, MA; Portsmouth, NH; York, Ogunquit, Kennebunkport, Portland, Boothbay Harbor, Camden, Maine.

Drive west through NH - either through the White Mountains or Lakes Region - through to Vermont. Then south to NYC. They could either go down through the Conn River Valley through Mass and Conn, or go a little further into New York State and down the thruway. At least three days.

New York - Drop car. Spend at least four days. Fly home from there.

So that would be a minimum of 15 days. If they could afford the three weeks that would be better and I would just add the extra days to each area.

You are all fantastic, thank you so much! It is making sense as I see it written here. I do believe that they can be flexible as far as dates and even how much time to spend here. My friend gave me dates of: 14 oct to 4 nov as proposed to visit. I am not sure if they should plan an earlier departure than Oct. 14th but would leave this up to your suggestions as far as the foliage is concerned. These dates (10/14-11/4) would give them more than enough time to visit here.

I do agree about Niagara Falls and think they should scrap that stop. We have been to Niagara and driven from Boston and it is a long ride. I do not see such a wow factor as others do. Besides, it would be colder there that time of year. There is so much else to see to replace that stop. They probably do not realize the distance from NYC.

I feel like we are making headway w/ a proposed itinerary. I will take time to look over all suggestions. I also am not sure my friend realizes how expensive this trip will be as far as lodging is concerned. I also suggested doing a land tour as an alternative where everything is all planned, hotels, itinerary, etc. and they would only need to book air.

Again, my thanks to all. Feel free to offer any other suggestions, etc.

May

If they want to consider a tour, there's discussion here of both Caravan & Tauck. http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g60745-i48-k4220623-o10-Caravan_Tours_Summer_New_England-Boston_Massachusetts.ht

Boston and NYC usually don't hit peak color until the very end of October, so if they save them for the end of the trip they'd most likely see good color in the cities.

If they're in Maine around, say, the third weekend of October, they might be there during peak color or they may be too late for peak. Each year is different. Chances are better for the South Coast than for Acadia.

But they will almost certainly be too late for peak color in the White Mountains and Vermont. A lot of trees will be bare by the third week of October. They might have better luck with the Lakes Region, but even that's questionable.

If they had done the trip this year, their timing would have been nearly perfect. But this year was far from normal - the color progression was about a week behind schedule in most places (not to mention the colors were extremely dull). If they could move the trip up by even a few days (like 4 or 5), I think they would increase their chances of seeing good color in the mountains, which is really the best place for leaf-peeping. Sure, Boston can have pretty colors, but people don't flock to the city just for the foliage like they do in New Hampshire and Vermont.

The amount of time is good, but the dates are a little late for good foliage. I still think starting in Boston so they don't have to get the car till they leave - then the driving part - then drop the car as they get to NY makes the most sense. But they'd need to be in VT-NH no later than the 12th or so. So they'd do best if they could start the trip around the 6-8th or so.

Yeah, even the 12th is pushing it for good color in the mountains though during most years. The higher elevations (the Notches, Kancamagus Pass) are almost always past peak by then, although the lower elevations (south of the notches, the lower elevations of the Kanc & Bear Notch Rd.) are usually hanging on to brilliant color unless it's been blown away by a windstorm.

I'd be inclined to say arrive October 10th at the absolute latest for the White Mountains & northern Vermont, and frankly I would plan the trip around this more than anything else. Regardless of whether they visit Boston at the beginning or the end of the trip, they should still leave earlier in the month.

Like most other replies they need time, drop niagara falls. My wife and I did a very similar foiliage tour this past October. We live 60 miles north of NYC. We started by taking the New York state thruway north to Albany aprox. 85 miles from there head east on route 9 towards Troy/vermont. This is a great secondary road. Once you get to the Vermont border aprox. 30 miles this road turns into the molly stark scenic byway. There are 8 oblesiks along this route wich are points of interest. If your friends stop at all of them, which they should. There are quaint new england towns covered bridges spectacular views on top of hog back mountain of 3 states. From there they will go to Brattleboro Vt. Where you can get a great meal and very affordable lodging. Continue to drive on route 9 through Keene NH until you get to route 202 north you will take that to route 4 east to 95 north. This route in NH is off the beaten path. It will give you a sense of being a LOCAL. Mom and pop shops dot this route. And all the people we meet were so nice. I feel as this part of the trip would take only 3-4 days comfortably. Once they are on 95 north its a straight run all the way to Bangor maine. Approx 225 miles. Stop at the kittery trading post and all of the outlets in kittery, not to disappoint. Once they get to Bangor take route 1a all the way to mt. Desert island. This is the gateway to Bar harbor and Acadia natl park. If they stay in Bass harbor which is 15-20 mins away they will save so much on lodging. They can also see the famous bass harbor head lighthouse. They need to spend at least 3 days here to really see things. Try the whale watching or take a fishing trip for the day which we did we caught alot of fish and the

Captain gave everyone 3lobsters. There are many restaurant that will cook your catch for you. After spending 3-4 days here head back to 95 south this will take you rite to Boston. We haven't spent time there but we do spend alot of time in cape cod. 2 days in cape code is sufficient. Find lodging before you cross the bridge to cape code and you will save alot of money. I know it takes 4.5 hours from cape cod to JFK airport. Its a great trip. If you need to know more please let me no. I have alot more information about these areas.

Again, my thanks to all for your input! It's great. So it looks like eliminating Niagara Falls (which is probably not a problem) and then deciding where they will fly into, Boston or NYC. I will send this info along to my friend and she can look everything over.

It may be beneficial to them to back up their trip and leave Dublin a few days earlier than planned. I know that foliage dates can't be predicated but at least they will able to see some of it.

I am leaning towards suggesting they skip Cape Cod just because it will allow them more time in the northern regions to see some fantastic scenery. It is really an easy run going to/from Boston/New York. I think that I will suggest that they book flights if the prices are ok w/ them. They can then decide on an itinerary.

jrnjill, thanks so much for your input.

mclaurie - I have also suggested taking the Caravan tour. I get their brochures in the email and I think the itin would be a nice one for them and the price is right also. No worries either, just get on the bus and leave the driving to the bus driver.

May