Getting Around Canyonland, UT
Mar 15th, 2012, 10:36 AM
#2
If you are only going to the "Island in the Sky" section of Canyonlands, you will not need anything but your standard rental car. Motorized off road vehicles are not allowed in most National Parks. If you hike down into a canyon, remember that you have to hike back up to get back to your vehicle.
My DW and I spent about 5 hours in Island and hiked less than 1 hour. We spent much more time in Arches (2.5 days).
Use the "search forums" at the top of the page for lots of great advice fro Arches, Canyonlands, Goblin Valley and other great southern Utah places to visit.
My DW and I spent about 5 hours in Island and hiked less than 1 hour. We spent much more time in Arches (2.5 days).
Use the "search forums" at the top of the page for lots of great advice fro Arches, Canyonlands, Goblin Valley and other great southern Utah places to visit.
Mar 15th, 2012, 11:26 AM
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A standard rental vehicle will be fine to visit Needles district too, but to go to some of the back areas you would need a permit and a high clearance 4wd. There are some interesting things to see/short hikes there and it is different seeing it from the bottom rather than the view from the top that you get from Island in the Sky.
There are outfits in Moab that will take you to the back areas, both on land and by boat. If you consider the cost of getting towed out if you get stuck in there as well as the rental, it probably would be wise to go with someone who knows where they are going.
Go too www.nps.gov and put Canyonlands in the search box to find links to the park.
Have a great trip.
There are outfits in Moab that will take you to the back areas, both on land and by boat. If you consider the cost of getting towed out if you get stuck in there as well as the rental, it probably would be wise to go with someone who knows where they are going.
Go too www.nps.gov and put Canyonlands in the search box to find links to the park.
Have a great trip.
Mar 15th, 2012, 11:27 AM
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Thanks. I was referring to 4WD vehicles. I was planning to rent a 4WD jeep, but I found that usual rental cars may not be taken off-road. Then I started looking at local places, but it's pretty expensive. So, then I was thinking of either renting one for a day or two or doing the Canyonlands adventure tours.
We have six full, non-travelling days in Moab, and I think we'd like to spend some of it in Canyonlands plus doing the jeep trails looks pretty cool. It does seem a waste though to spend that much on the vehicle since we won't need it a lot of the time.
We have six full, non-travelling days in Moab, and I think we'd like to spend some of it in Canyonlands plus doing the jeep trails looks pretty cool. It does seem a waste though to spend that much on the vehicle since we won't need it a lot of the time.
Mar 15th, 2012, 02:00 PM
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You can rent a jeep in Moab specifically for off-roading just for a day or two, this will let you access some of the places you mention and with a 6 day visit you'll get access to a lot of places most people don't see, plus have plenty of time for the usual spots that everyone visits.
For example at Island in the Sky you can go down to Mineral Bottom to where the road hits the Green River, or you can do parts of the famous White Rim Road, which is 100 miles long and circumnavigates most of Island in the Sky. You can just do 25-40 miles of White Rim and then back for a relaxing day, or if you are a maniac you can do the entire thing in one bone-jolting day (which I did once, it was a crazy long day, but doable).
Also some great places in Needles, the most famous is probably Elephant Hill, which I found very challenging. Also they used to allow access to the beautiful Angel Arch via a rough road, but I think so many people punctured oil pans that they now don't allow it (in litigation, so perhaps now you can do it?). If Angel Arch were in Arches it would probably be the 2nd most popular arch in the park but here in Needles it gets just a few visitor each year, even though it's spectacular, especially at sunrise.
There are also several nice 4-wd areas just outside Needles in the National Forest and BLM lands.
Either Elephant Hill or White Rim would be great for a one-day rental (don't try Elephant Hill unless you are ready for some challenges though) ... White Rim is pretty simple but long if you try to do the whole thing in a day.
Here are some links:
http://www.utahtrails.com/ElephantHill.html
http://muench.photoshelter.com/image/I00009JTmdgfH_qQ
http://muench.photoshelter.com/image/I0000xTE0_CxmU.c (Angel Arch, you can hike up under it and thru to the other side)
http://www.nps.gov/cany/planyourvisit/whiterimroad.htm (White Rim)
Go for it. Get away from the crowds.
For example at Island in the Sky you can go down to Mineral Bottom to where the road hits the Green River, or you can do parts of the famous White Rim Road, which is 100 miles long and circumnavigates most of Island in the Sky. You can just do 25-40 miles of White Rim and then back for a relaxing day, or if you are a maniac you can do the entire thing in one bone-jolting day (which I did once, it was a crazy long day, but doable).
Also some great places in Needles, the most famous is probably Elephant Hill, which I found very challenging. Also they used to allow access to the beautiful Angel Arch via a rough road, but I think so many people punctured oil pans that they now don't allow it (in litigation, so perhaps now you can do it?). If Angel Arch were in Arches it would probably be the 2nd most popular arch in the park but here in Needles it gets just a few visitor each year, even though it's spectacular, especially at sunrise.
There are also several nice 4-wd areas just outside Needles in the National Forest and BLM lands.
Either Elephant Hill or White Rim would be great for a one-day rental (don't try Elephant Hill unless you are ready for some challenges though) ... White Rim is pretty simple but long if you try to do the whole thing in a day.
Here are some links:
http://www.utahtrails.com/ElephantHill.html
http://muench.photoshelter.com/image/I00009JTmdgfH_qQ
http://muench.photoshelter.com/image/I0000xTE0_CxmU.c (Angel Arch, you can hike up under it and thru to the other side)
http://www.nps.gov/cany/planyourvisit/whiterimroad.htm (White Rim)
Go for it. Get away from the crowds.
Mar 15th, 2012, 02:06 PM
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After posting I saw this link for Needles District 4-WD roads, which may be of interest. Good description of Elephant Hill ... Angel Arch was accessed via Salt Creek and Horse Canyon back in the good old days but you can't go all the way up with a vehicle now I guess ... the Colorado Overlook is also cool.
http://www.nps.gov/cany/planyourvisit/needlesroads.htm
http://www.nps.gov/cany/planyourvisit/needlesroads.htm
Mar 15th, 2012, 05:29 PM
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Bill,
I was always under the impression that you had to have a permit to do the White Rim Trail. No?
That said, I've owned 4x4s for many years and have done some exploring with or without groups, but I sure wouldn't recommend Elephant Hill to any visitor without their own, specialised 4x4. No way!
You will have the most fun if you go on one of the tours. Let someone else take the responsibility for the driving, repair, rescuing, etc. if needed!
I was always under the impression that you had to have a permit to do the White Rim Trail. No?
That said, I've owned 4x4s for many years and have done some exploring with or without groups, but I sure wouldn't recommend Elephant Hill to any visitor without their own, specialised 4x4. No way!
You will have the most fun if you go on one of the tours. Let someone else take the responsibility for the driving, repair, rescuing, etc. if needed!
Mar 15th, 2012, 05:31 PM
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PS- You might also enjoy a scenic flight with slickrockair. They have a variety of flights and are super knowledgeable. It's a thrill to see the confluence, Angel Arch, the Chocolate Drops - all from the air!
Mar 15th, 2012, 05:43 PM
#11
There are areas around Moab that are not in National Parks.
If you've seen the "Citibank Accessories" commerical on tv (also on Youtube) it starts at Dead Horse Point state park near Canyonlands and the last part is Fisher Towers several miles east of Moab along Rt 128.
You don't have to climb to the top of Ancient Art as she does. We hiked around the bottom and saw some climbers up there.
If you've seen the "Citibank Accessories" commerical on tv (also on Youtube) it starts at Dead Horse Point state park near Canyonlands and the last part is Fisher Towers several miles east of Moab along Rt 128.
You don't have to climb to the top of Ancient Art as she does. We hiked around the bottom and saw some climbers up there.
Mar 15th, 2012, 05:55 PM
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Another great way to see a ton is with an airplane tour with
Slick Rock Air. You'll see a lot in an hour. To see the Chocolate Drops from the air is pretty cool. You can really really see the difference in The Maze, The Needles and Island in the Sky Districts. To see the confluence of Green and Colorado Rivers was great too.
Moab Adventure Center rents jeeps. They also do Hummer Tour and Jeep Tours if you don't want to do the driving. I would never ever do a Hummer tour with them again though. It's the only time I've ever been truly scared on a tour like that. I am sure it is perfectly fine and I am sure that tons of people enjoy it. I still am amazed that we didn't turn over. I just don't see how it kept from it(on 5 or 6 occasions I was prepared to roll it).
Slick Rock Air. You'll see a lot in an hour. To see the Chocolate Drops from the air is pretty cool. You can really really see the difference in The Maze, The Needles and Island in the Sky Districts. To see the confluence of Green and Colorado Rivers was great too.
Moab Adventure Center rents jeeps. They also do Hummer Tour and Jeep Tours if you don't want to do the driving. I would never ever do a Hummer tour with them again though. It's the only time I've ever been truly scared on a tour like that. I am sure it is perfectly fine and I am sure that tons of people enjoy it. I still am amazed that we didn't turn over. I just don't see how it kept from it(on 5 or 6 occasions I was prepared to roll it).
Mar 15th, 2012, 07:35 PM
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Glad I checked back here. I agree that air tours are the best, and we usually do them. We're flying into Moab from Denver early afternoon, and I'm hoping the trip will be scenic. The hot air balloon is tempting since that's something we haven't ever done, although w/four of us, it's a lot of $. I got into the idea of the jeep trails from a guidebook I came upon, Canyonlands NP Favorite Jeep & Hiking Trails. It sounds fun, but I wouldn't want to find us in need of rescue. It all sounds great! Thanks for the great suggestions and info.
LOL, that's so funny spirobulldog! I have had similar thoughts in similar situations!
LOL, that's so funny spirobulldog! I have had similar thoughts in similar situations!
Mar 16th, 2012, 01:46 AM
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We've rented 4WD Jeep Wranglers in Moab a couple of times and now we have our own Jeep Liberty. The rental rates have gone up. I'd check with the rental company before doing Elephant Hill. It might need more than just the stock 4WD to do it.
The first time we rented a jeep was the last year they were allowing vehicles on the trail to Angel Arch...sure glad we decided to do it! You needed a permit that year too.
One of our favorites is the Shafer Trail. You start out on the Potash Road, Hwy 279 which turns to a dirt road. You pass the Potash Plant, then you pass where they filmed the car jumping seen for Thelma and Louise. This is just below Dead Horse State Park. A little farther you reach an intersection. (There is an out house near this intersection) The White Rim trail goes to the left and the Shafer Trail which goes to the right. We like to do a short section of the White Rim trail to Musselman Arch and then go back and drive up the Shafer Trail to Canyonlands. There is plenty of time to do a couple of hiked in Canyonlands like Mesa Arch and then take the Long Trail 4WD back to the Potash Road and Moab.
There are so many 4WD roads in Moab, but before you head out on one, make sure the vehicle you rent is rated for that trail!
As far as I know you only need a permit if you plan to camp on the White Rim trail. I was always told you need three days to really do the White Rim trail, BUT recently I've heard you can do it in one very long day...don't think I'd recommend that tho!
Utahtea
The first time we rented a jeep was the last year they were allowing vehicles on the trail to Angel Arch...sure glad we decided to do it! You needed a permit that year too.
One of our favorites is the Shafer Trail. You start out on the Potash Road, Hwy 279 which turns to a dirt road. You pass the Potash Plant, then you pass where they filmed the car jumping seen for Thelma and Louise. This is just below Dead Horse State Park. A little farther you reach an intersection. (There is an out house near this intersection) The White Rim trail goes to the left and the Shafer Trail which goes to the right. We like to do a short section of the White Rim trail to Musselman Arch and then go back and drive up the Shafer Trail to Canyonlands. There is plenty of time to do a couple of hiked in Canyonlands like Mesa Arch and then take the Long Trail 4WD back to the Potash Road and Moab.
There are so many 4WD roads in Moab, but before you head out on one, make sure the vehicle you rent is rated for that trail!
As far as I know you only need a permit if you plan to camp on the White Rim trail. I was always told you need three days to really do the White Rim trail, BUT recently I've heard you can do it in one very long day...don't think I'd recommend that tho!
Utahtea
Mar 16th, 2012, 06:33 AM
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Since you are in Moab, I must mention my all time favorite adventure. www.deserthightlights.com
I've been with them twice and it is great!!
I've been with them twice and it is great!!
Mar 16th, 2012, 06:59 AM
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Bill,
I was always under the impression that you had to have a permit to do the White Rim Trail. No?
In the past you needed a permit to over-night out there at one of the campsites. It's popular for bikers too, so a bit of a backlog getting a spot in high season.
For day trips you never needed a permit. This is subject to change of course but that's the way it's always been up to now.
Here's what they say on the official NPS site:
"Permits are required for all overnight trips along the White Rim. During the spring and fall, demand for permits frequently exceeds the number available. If you plan to visit Canyonlands during peak season, it is recommended that you make reservations well in advance."
But for just driving part of the way and back (or for going full Monty and doing the entire drive in one day) you don't need a permit.
I was always under the impression that you had to have a permit to do the White Rim Trail. No?
In the past you needed a permit to over-night out there at one of the campsites. It's popular for bikers too, so a bit of a backlog getting a spot in high season.
For day trips you never needed a permit. This is subject to change of course but that's the way it's always been up to now.
Here's what they say on the official NPS site:
"Permits are required for all overnight trips along the White Rim. During the spring and fall, demand for permits frequently exceeds the number available. If you plan to visit Canyonlands during peak season, it is recommended that you make reservations well in advance."
But for just driving part of the way and back (or for going full Monty and doing the entire drive in one day) you don't need a permit.
Mar 16th, 2012, 12:55 PM
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Regarding going alone in a 4WD, do people get lost, or vehicles stuck, or are vehicle accidents or breakdowns common so that rescue is needed? Are other drivers/vehicles a problem? Are the roads treacherous? My guidebook rates difficulty of trails, among other things. None of my group (parents w/two college-age kids) are experienced driving off-road, say as a hobby, but we tend to be cautious whatever we're doing. Until I posted here. it didn't really occur to me to worry for our safety or needing rescue. I was thinking more of the expense of it if we rented the vehicle for a week and whether it would be worth it. After reading the posts and giving it some thought, if we decided to do it, we'd go out for a day and if we loved it, two.
So it seems that many of you think it is too much trouble, too risky, or not that great of an experience compared to other activities, etc.? For anyone that does it, would it be a great and unique time or experience?
Spirobulldog, your adventure suggestion scares me more.
So it seems that many of you think it is too much trouble, too risky, or not that great of an experience compared to other activities, etc.? For anyone that does it, would it be a great and unique time or experience?
Spirobulldog, your adventure suggestion scares me more.
Mar 16th, 2012, 01:29 PM
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Regarding going alone in a 4WD, do people get lost, or vehicles stuck, or are vehicle accidents or breakdowns common so that rescue is needed? Are other drivers/vehicles a problem? Are the roads treacherous?
This varies widely, depending on which roads you take, your vehicle, your skills etc.
As an example, Utahtea mentions Shafer Trail ... the first part of this going off of the plateau, as I remember it, is actually fine for 2-wd since the road is graded and fairly wide. Enough traffic, you'd have help right away if you had a break down etc. Lower down it gets more rocky for a few miles but is still fairly easy driving for any vehicle with high clearance. Then it's paved on the Potash Road.
So perfectly safe (so long as you have good brakes for the 'going down' part, beautiful scenery. I would guess on a scale of 1-5 this is about a 2.
Lot of folks run into problems on White Rim because they take low clearance vehicles on it, even if they might have 4-wd. For example a day before we did that 100 mile road we were told of someone in a rental Chevy Caprice (!!) who miraculously managed to make it about 20 miles before puncturing the oil pan ... $1,200 just for the tow, plus repairs. I would guess White Rim is rated maybe 3 on the 1-5 scale.
I mentioned Elephant Hill, not knowing how experienced you were or how much of a thrill seeker ... I think that's too difficult, based on how you just described yourself. I think it's rated 4.5/5 or so, with 5 meaning you need special equipment (typically a winch for self-extraction and extremely high clearance).
I would just say that I've never once thought I was on the verge of flipping a vehicle (though I've seen videos of guys trying to go up slickrock and tipping over) and never felt in danger and I would always go either with just my wife or sometimes alone. Always had at least 3 gallons extra of water and was prepared to stay overnight if something went wrong, but nothing ever came close to going that far south.
If you rent in Moab talk to the guy you rent from and ask for suggestions for something rated 'moderate', they want their vehicle back in good shape and will steer you in the right direction. Something like going up Shafer Trail to the top from the Colorado River side, maybe with a short detour on to White Rim (like what Utahtea suggested), then maybe on the Green River side going down and up Mineral Bottom would be very safe (in a rental jeep) and would get you away from the crowds.
So it seems that many of you think it is too much trouble, too risky, or not that great of an experience compared to other activities, etc.?
I would disagree ... probably not worth the time for someone up there just a couple of days, but with 6 days you have plenty of time to see the 'normal' sights and then do something extra like this ... it's not risky and if you want to get away from the crowds then this is one way (except for the Jeep Jamboree week). This and doing something on the river (choices of mild whitewater or canoeing on flatwater or doing a tour) will get you away from the standard overlooks that are all most visitors see.
This varies widely, depending on which roads you take, your vehicle, your skills etc.
As an example, Utahtea mentions Shafer Trail ... the first part of this going off of the plateau, as I remember it, is actually fine for 2-wd since the road is graded and fairly wide. Enough traffic, you'd have help right away if you had a break down etc. Lower down it gets more rocky for a few miles but is still fairly easy driving for any vehicle with high clearance. Then it's paved on the Potash Road.
So perfectly safe (so long as you have good brakes for the 'going down' part, beautiful scenery. I would guess on a scale of 1-5 this is about a 2.
Lot of folks run into problems on White Rim because they take low clearance vehicles on it, even if they might have 4-wd. For example a day before we did that 100 mile road we were told of someone in a rental Chevy Caprice (!!) who miraculously managed to make it about 20 miles before puncturing the oil pan ... $1,200 just for the tow, plus repairs. I would guess White Rim is rated maybe 3 on the 1-5 scale.
I mentioned Elephant Hill, not knowing how experienced you were or how much of a thrill seeker ... I think that's too difficult, based on how you just described yourself. I think it's rated 4.5/5 or so, with 5 meaning you need special equipment (typically a winch for self-extraction and extremely high clearance).
I would just say that I've never once thought I was on the verge of flipping a vehicle (though I've seen videos of guys trying to go up slickrock and tipping over) and never felt in danger and I would always go either with just my wife or sometimes alone. Always had at least 3 gallons extra of water and was prepared to stay overnight if something went wrong, but nothing ever came close to going that far south.
If you rent in Moab talk to the guy you rent from and ask for suggestions for something rated 'moderate', they want their vehicle back in good shape and will steer you in the right direction. Something like going up Shafer Trail to the top from the Colorado River side, maybe with a short detour on to White Rim (like what Utahtea suggested), then maybe on the Green River side going down and up Mineral Bottom would be very safe (in a rental jeep) and would get you away from the crowds.
So it seems that many of you think it is too much trouble, too risky, or not that great of an experience compared to other activities, etc.?
I would disagree ... probably not worth the time for someone up there just a couple of days, but with 6 days you have plenty of time to see the 'normal' sights and then do something extra like this ... it's not risky and if you want to get away from the crowds then this is one way (except for the Jeep Jamboree week). This and doing something on the river (choices of mild whitewater or canoeing on flatwater or doing a tour) will get you away from the standard overlooks that are all most visitors see.
Mar 16th, 2012, 03:40 PM
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Just search on Youtube and you can get a good idea of different types of 4 wheeling/offroading there is. Yes, Moab is the King of Off Road Extremes(I think so anyway). However, I am sure there would be just as many tame trails that you would enjoy.
Mar 16th, 2012, 08:49 PM
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Claire,
I travel to the UT parks frequently and solo. I am very careful about where I go since I'm on my own.
I think you and your family would really enjoy the Shafer Trail. It's not difficult and would be fine with a regular 4x4. You should be aware that at the top (in Canyonlands NP) it's very steep, rather narrow and has some super tight switchbacks - that the most intense part - about the last 2 miles.
I did it solo, but with 2 other 4x4s on the road with me. I wanted to go, but hesitated because I was alone. Just as I was passing the top entrance, 2 others made the turn - so I just tagged right along. The 3 of us stuck together the whole way (by unspoken agreement) and stopped a few times for breaks and a chat. All 3 cars were strangers, but not by the end. It was a fun little adventure.
Just be sure to check the weather and road conditions before you go off road anywhere! Get local, expert advice. Take extra food and water just in case. Remember - cell phones don't work in most of these places.
If you are tempted by Elephant Hill, drive out and watch for a while. It takes a very experienced 4x4 driver and specialized equipment to make it. But it's fun to watch people try!
Have fun!
I travel to the UT parks frequently and solo. I am very careful about where I go since I'm on my own.
I think you and your family would really enjoy the Shafer Trail. It's not difficult and would be fine with a regular 4x4. You should be aware that at the top (in Canyonlands NP) it's very steep, rather narrow and has some super tight switchbacks - that the most intense part - about the last 2 miles.
I did it solo, but with 2 other 4x4s on the road with me. I wanted to go, but hesitated because I was alone. Just as I was passing the top entrance, 2 others made the turn - so I just tagged right along. The 3 of us stuck together the whole way (by unspoken agreement) and stopped a few times for breaks and a chat. All 3 cars were strangers, but not by the end. It was a fun little adventure.
Just be sure to check the weather and road conditions before you go off road anywhere! Get local, expert advice. Take extra food and water just in case. Remember - cell phones don't work in most of these places.
If you are tempted by Elephant Hill, drive out and watch for a while. It takes a very experienced 4x4 driver and specialized equipment to make it. But it's fun to watch people try!
Have fun!
