Does the "Real USA" (still) exist?
Jul 6th, 2015, 06:17 PM
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Does the "Real USA" (still) exist?
Here's the thing.
I'm an Irishman (51) now living and working in New York.
My wife and kids have returned to Ireland for the summer and I will follow in mid-August.
In the meantime...I will have an opportunity to travel in USA for about a week from 7-14 August.
The question is: where to go?
If you live in, or have visited, a place that you believe is typical of the "real America" and is the place that I should spend 5-7 days, please share it with me.
There are a few conditions however:
I'd prefer to move off the East Coast but don't want to travel too far (say 3-4 hours by air or 7-9 hours overland).
Warm is good; Hot is OK; Scorching is less so
(Maybe the trickiest) - I won't be able to hire or borrow a car. Public transport or walking is fine.
Towns/cities of about 100,000 seem attractive to me - preferably with a proper centre.
Museums, Galleries, Sporting events, Good architecture, Local events are all big positives for me.
As an example, we recently visited Charleston SC and had a great time. Earlier, we visited Minneapolis (albeit in March) - not so good.
I'd be delighted for any advice readers of this forum can offer and I'll be glad to report on my visit to XXXX after it happens!
Thank you.
Tim
I'm an Irishman (51) now living and working in New York.
My wife and kids have returned to Ireland for the summer and I will follow in mid-August.
In the meantime...I will have an opportunity to travel in USA for about a week from 7-14 August.
The question is: where to go?
If you live in, or have visited, a place that you believe is typical of the "real America" and is the place that I should spend 5-7 days, please share it with me.
There are a few conditions however:
I'd prefer to move off the East Coast but don't want to travel too far (say 3-4 hours by air or 7-9 hours overland).
Warm is good; Hot is OK; Scorching is less so
(Maybe the trickiest) - I won't be able to hire or borrow a car. Public transport or walking is fine.
Towns/cities of about 100,000 seem attractive to me - preferably with a proper centre.
Museums, Galleries, Sporting events, Good architecture, Local events are all big positives for me.
As an example, we recently visited Charleston SC and had a great time. Earlier, we visited Minneapolis (albeit in March) - not so good.
I'd be delighted for any advice readers of this forum can offer and I'll be glad to report on my visit to XXXX after it happens!
Thank you.
Tim
Jul 6th, 2015, 07:06 PM
#2
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,315
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
> If you live in, or have visited, a place that
> you believe is typical of the "real America"
The term you put in quotes has always puzzled me. Just why, exactly, is New York City not part of "real" America?
I now live in the MSA of Philadelphia, an area with 6.5 million residents. Prior to this, I lived in an Iowa city of less than 50,000 residents. I've also lived in Texas, California, and Michigan -- and I consider ALL of these places just as "real" as all the others. They were all different, yes. Some were far from "typical" of other places -- particularly when I lived in the SF Bay Area. But ALL of them are "really" part of the USA.
Incredibly, I did hear people saying that Iowa was inhabited by "real" Americans -- as if the people residing in the area where I now live aren't "really" Americans. I couldn't think of one honest criterion that would cause someone to think that, but sometimes I lack imagination.
On what basis would you consider a place to be, or not be, part of "real" America?
BTW, August will be scorching in all areas of the U.S. south of New England. Since you'll be a single traveler, the mountains and small towns of that area might be perfect IF you don't mind riding commuter buses between towns. The Berkshires of Massachusetts and the Green Mountains of Vermont are both well-served by these services, and you could spend a couple of days in each of several towns in the area, then go on to the next town. Good planning would be a must, but it could be done.
> you believe is typical of the "real America"
The term you put in quotes has always puzzled me. Just why, exactly, is New York City not part of "real" America?
I now live in the MSA of Philadelphia, an area with 6.5 million residents. Prior to this, I lived in an Iowa city of less than 50,000 residents. I've also lived in Texas, California, and Michigan -- and I consider ALL of these places just as "real" as all the others. They were all different, yes. Some were far from "typical" of other places -- particularly when I lived in the SF Bay Area. But ALL of them are "really" part of the USA.
Incredibly, I did hear people saying that Iowa was inhabited by "real" Americans -- as if the people residing in the area where I now live aren't "really" Americans. I couldn't think of one honest criterion that would cause someone to think that, but sometimes I lack imagination.
On what basis would you consider a place to be, or not be, part of "real" America?
BTW, August will be scorching in all areas of the U.S. south of New England. Since you'll be a single traveler, the mountains and small towns of that area might be perfect IF you don't mind riding commuter buses between towns. The Berkshires of Massachusetts and the Green Mountains of Vermont are both well-served by these services, and you could spend a couple of days in each of several towns in the area, then go on to the next town. Good planning would be a must, but it could be done.
Jul 6th, 2015, 09:18 PM
#4
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Paul, IM(?),
no attempt at condescension intended.
Absolutely coincidentally, I've just been looking at the movie State and Main, which is David Mamet's take on the question of "real" or indeed "smalltown" America. I think he makes similar points to you both. And, of course NYC or Chicago are as real as any other part of America.
However (and here is where the "" "" come in) there is a stereotypical view of what is meant by "real America" that usually does not embrace the big cities.
I like New York (some days I even love it) but I would like to take a break from it. Your suggestions of the Berkshires and Vermont are interesting but I'd hope to land in somewhere a bit more urban and which has enough about it to hold my interest for a week or so.
And I hope that people will post here about their home town/city, which maybe I haven't I heard of, and suggest local attractions or events that might make me think it would be interesting to turn up and check it out.
Thanks for replying
Tim
no attempt at condescension intended.
Absolutely coincidentally, I've just been looking at the movie State and Main, which is David Mamet's take on the question of "real" or indeed "smalltown" America. I think he makes similar points to you both. And, of course NYC or Chicago are as real as any other part of America.
However (and here is where the "" "" come in) there is a stereotypical view of what is meant by "real America" that usually does not embrace the big cities.
I like New York (some days I even love it) but I would like to take a break from it. Your suggestions of the Berkshires and Vermont are interesting but I'd hope to land in somewhere a bit more urban and which has enough about it to hold my interest for a week or so.
And I hope that people will post here about their home town/city, which maybe I haven't I heard of, and suggest local attractions or events that might make me think it would be interesting to turn up and check it out.
Thanks for replying
Tim
Jul 7th, 2015, 02:25 AM
#5
"preferably with a proper centre."
You say you are looking for the "real America" and yet you've already decided that it has to have at least one feature that you yourself have defined.
Good luck with this one.
You say you are looking for the "real America" and yet you've already decided that it has to have at least one feature that you yourself have defined.
Good luck with this one.
Jul 7th, 2015, 02:45 AM
#6
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,876
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
bit more urban and which has enough about it to hold my interest for a week or so.
Well, there's the rub. Just take "real" out of your idealized thought. You liked Charleston. You could go to Asheville, NC and have a lovely week--but it has gone very upscale from its "real" roots, but much much fun.
Go to Charlottesville, VA or Richmond, VA. Williamsburg is a truly fake "real"!! Have you been to Washington, DC.
Well, there's the rub. Just take "real" out of your idealized thought. You liked Charleston. You could go to Asheville, NC and have a lovely week--but it has gone very upscale from its "real" roots, but much much fun.
Go to Charlottesville, VA or Richmond, VA. Williamsburg is a truly fake "real"!! Have you been to Washington, DC.
Jul 7th, 2015, 02:59 AM
#7
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,959
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
> However (and here is where the "" "" come in) there is a stereotypical view of what is meant by "real America" that usually does not embrace the big cities.
Tim, imo people who have spent their whole lives in either a big city or small town have no basis of comparison to know the difference between real and fake America. We spent our first 25 years in major cities and thought just like IMDonehere. L.A. was the center of the universe and reality for me, anywhere outside it was simply somewhere other than the center. But it was an extraordinarily lonely environment, e.g. we lived in a single house for over 20 years and never met our immediate neighbors, which is typical in L.A. and most other major cities.
Then we moved to the Sierras and suddenly we had people throwing us housewarming parties, bringing us gifts every holiday and taking in our garbage cans every week without us even asking them to do it. Etc. Etc etc.
Etc. We literally had to reteach ourselves how to love and trust people.
To answer your question, to find real America simply visit any state or county fair in any U.S. city with a population under 25,000, and ranging from 200 miles east of the west coast to 200 miles west of the east coast.
Tim, imo people who have spent their whole lives in either a big city or small town have no basis of comparison to know the difference between real and fake America. We spent our first 25 years in major cities and thought just like IMDonehere. L.A. was the center of the universe and reality for me, anywhere outside it was simply somewhere other than the center. But it was an extraordinarily lonely environment, e.g. we lived in a single house for over 20 years and never met our immediate neighbors, which is typical in L.A. and most other major cities.
Then we moved to the Sierras and suddenly we had people throwing us housewarming parties, bringing us gifts every holiday and taking in our garbage cans every week without us even asking them to do it. Etc. Etc etc.
Etc. We literally had to reteach ourselves how to love and trust people.
To answer your question, to find real America simply visit any state or county fair in any U.S. city with a population under 25,000, and ranging from 200 miles east of the west coast to 200 miles west of the east coast.
Jul 7th, 2015, 04:38 AM
#8
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 57,890
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well since more americans live in cities and suburbs than in small town and rural areas - the former rather than the latter is the real america.
Not that there's anything wrong with small towns or farms - but many young people are leaving both since opportunities are so limited.
I think you are looking for some sort of 1950s Ozzie and Harriet family sitting on the porch type of thing that probably never existed and really doesn't now at all. Just look at the incidence of drug use and violent crime in these areas. Just look at the dearth or small family farms (which are often traps and totally uneconomic versus huge agribusinesses).
You can certainly visit areas that are less populated - in August for non scorching I suggest Maine - a lovely vacation area - but many of the locals have a hard time making a living due to the limited and often seasonal employment opportunities.
This would be like someone going to Ireland and thinking all that matters is village pubs and step dancing - rather than the great literature/cultural history, the large number of university educated people in high tech jobs, recent political changes and the modern country as it exists.
Not that there's anything wrong with small towns or farms - but many young people are leaving both since opportunities are so limited.
I think you are looking for some sort of 1950s Ozzie and Harriet family sitting on the porch type of thing that probably never existed and really doesn't now at all. Just look at the incidence of drug use and violent crime in these areas. Just look at the dearth or small family farms (which are often traps and totally uneconomic versus huge agribusinesses).
You can certainly visit areas that are less populated - in August for non scorching I suggest Maine - a lovely vacation area - but many of the locals have a hard time making a living due to the limited and often seasonal employment opportunities.
This would be like someone going to Ireland and thinking all that matters is village pubs and step dancing - rather than the great literature/cultural history, the large number of university educated people in high tech jobs, recent political changes and the modern country as it exists.
Jul 7th, 2015, 05:07 AM
#9
I'll second the nomination of Maine. Maybe start in Portland for a few days. It's well known for it restaurants, and there are harbor cruises -- take the mail boat -- which will introduce you to the coast. Further north there are still honest-to-god fishing villages such as Stonington. Getting around will require taking buses since you will not be driving. Not convenient but largely doable. Get a copy of the Explorer's Guide to Maine and see what appeals. Note: you may even have cool weather, especially in the evening.
Jul 7th, 2015, 05:16 AM
#10
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is really quite funny!
I know what you are getting at. If I had been working in Dublin, I would indeed like to get out and see something else of the country.
Not driving is going to limit severely some of the places you can go that are in fact out in the "Real America."
About the best you are going to be able to do is some combination of train and bus, and it is going to be on the East Coat. There is a non-driving Canadian named Daniel whose reports I would recommend, but I can't think of his last name at the moment.
In your circumstances, I might make Burlington, VT, my objective. You can get there by bus, plane, or train, none hugely convenient. You could stop off overnight on the way in Hanover, NH (bus) or Springfield, MA (train). Lots of scenery on the way by either route.
Burlington is a small university city with lots of brew pubs, interesting shops, views, and a nearby museum of American popular culture at Shelburne: old farms, a steamboat, primitive art, tools, wagons, the lot.
From Burlington, you can cross Lake Champlain by ferry with good views of the Adirondack Mountains and have a stroll around Plattsburgh, NY, or you can go to Montreal by bus or train for an overnight.
I know what you are getting at. If I had been working in Dublin, I would indeed like to get out and see something else of the country.
Not driving is going to limit severely some of the places you can go that are in fact out in the "Real America."
About the best you are going to be able to do is some combination of train and bus, and it is going to be on the East Coat. There is a non-driving Canadian named Daniel whose reports I would recommend, but I can't think of his last name at the moment.
In your circumstances, I might make Burlington, VT, my objective. You can get there by bus, plane, or train, none hugely convenient. You could stop off overnight on the way in Hanover, NH (bus) or Springfield, MA (train). Lots of scenery on the way by either route.
Burlington is a small university city with lots of brew pubs, interesting shops, views, and a nearby museum of American popular culture at Shelburne: old farms, a steamboat, primitive art, tools, wagons, the lot.
From Burlington, you can cross Lake Champlain by ferry with good views of the Adirondack Mountains and have a stroll around Plattsburgh, NY, or you can go to Montreal by bus or train for an overnight.
Jul 7th, 2015, 05:37 AM
#11
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,749
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How about Martha's VIneyard in Massachusetts? Yes,there are plenty of visitors there but also locals who inhabit the various towns. Each town on the island is unique. You can fly there from NY. I've done it. Beaches, culture, restaurants, architecture, woods, even some clay cliffs. August may be tough though as it can be booked up way in advance.
http://mvol.com/
The town of Oak Bluffs is famous for having fairy tale like victorian homes and has been a solid Black community for decades.
http://www.oakbluffsmv.com/
BTW - Menemsha, a small town on MV, is where they filmed "Jaws".
http://mvol.com/
The town of Oak Bluffs is famous for having fairy tale like victorian homes and has been a solid Black community for decades.
http://www.oakbluffsmv.com/
BTW - Menemsha, a small town on MV, is where they filmed "Jaws".
Jul 7th, 2015, 05:47 AM
#12
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 27,868
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jul 7th, 2015, 05:47 AM
#13
If you have an interest in horse racing you can take the Adirondack train to Saratoga. http://www.saratoga.com/race-track/calendar.cfm
There are lots of other things to do/see in that area as well
There are lots of other things to do/see in that area as well
Jul 7th, 2015, 06:51 AM
#14
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,234
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have the perfect place for you. Unfortunately not on the east coast. West Point, CA. Has all the truly necessary amenities: a gas station, post office, and mechanic.
Howling with laughter at this thread- I got lost near West Point last night. A silver haired lady wearing tshirt, cowboy hat and full make up helped out and said "now dear, you get lost again, you just pull over and ask anyone out here, we all just help each other out." She got in her car and led me out to the main road. I've done that for poor lost visitors at home before. That's the real USA to me- that made me miss my grandmother- it's acceptable to wear jeans to get the mail, but never step out of the house without makeup
So...find a prosperous but non touristy town just about anywhere. Like someone said, less than 25,000. Of course, you'll need a car. And bring a book or two- no cell reception, little shopping, no movie theater. But if there's a bar, or gas station, or post office, or church, I promise that you'll meet people! (The clue is to walk into the local watering hole and find a table of old farmers/ranchers in the back. You've definitely arrived in "real" America if you've come across that scene.) And if you're bored out of your mind after a few hours? Some of us "real Americans" spent the first 18 years in a place like West Point. Boredom won't kill, I promise!
Howling with laughter at this thread- I got lost near West Point last night. A silver haired lady wearing tshirt, cowboy hat and full make up helped out and said "now dear, you get lost again, you just pull over and ask anyone out here, we all just help each other out." She got in her car and led me out to the main road. I've done that for poor lost visitors at home before. That's the real USA to me- that made me miss my grandmother- it's acceptable to wear jeans to get the mail, but never step out of the house without makeup
So...find a prosperous but non touristy town just about anywhere. Like someone said, less than 25,000. Of course, you'll need a car. And bring a book or two- no cell reception, little shopping, no movie theater. But if there's a bar, or gas station, or post office, or church, I promise that you'll meet people! (The clue is to walk into the local watering hole and find a table of old farmers/ranchers in the back. You've definitely arrived in "real" America if you've come across that scene.) And if you're bored out of your mind after a few hours? Some of us "real Americans" spent the first 18 years in a place like West Point. Boredom won't kill, I promise!
Jul 7th, 2015, 07:16 AM
#16
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,234
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Diane- yep. I know. I'd argue you can't get my "real America" by transit. Anything worthy of transit is automatically disqualified for being too big! But in reality, no (international!) tourist would want to spend time in most of "real America". Of course, like someone above said- even NYC is someone's "real America".
But I suppose if serious suggestions are necessary...and the OP was hoping for hometown suggestions...you can fly NYC-Seattle-Walla Walla. You don't need a car in Walla Walla. Wine tasting is the main thing to do. And we real Walla Wallans enjoy watching the tourists...
But I suppose if serious suggestions are necessary...and the OP was hoping for hometown suggestions...you can fly NYC-Seattle-Walla Walla. You don't need a car in Walla Walla. Wine tasting is the main thing to do. And we real Walla Wallans enjoy watching the tourists...
Jul 7th, 2015, 07:42 AM
#17
How about flying to Indianapolis and attending the Indiana State Fair for a day or two, than taking the train to Chicago for another couple of days before returning to NYC or Ireland? Obviously they're bigger cities than 100,000, but the state fair experience would be terrific.
Same idea, but this time fly to Milwaukee, visit the Wisconsin State Fair (west of the city) then continue an hour or two west (plenty of transport options) to Madison, WI, a lovely lakefront town with a huge range of cultural and visitor options. (It's the state capital as well as the home of the University of Wisconsin.)
Both state fairs are on during your preferred week, and you can't get more "real American" than that.
http://in.gov/statefair/fair/gen_info/index.html
http://wistatefair.com/fair/
Same idea, but this time fly to Milwaukee, visit the Wisconsin State Fair (west of the city) then continue an hour or two west (plenty of transport options) to Madison, WI, a lovely lakefront town with a huge range of cultural and visitor options. (It's the state capital as well as the home of the University of Wisconsin.)
Both state fairs are on during your preferred week, and you can't get more "real American" than that.
http://in.gov/statefair/fair/gen_info/index.html
http://wistatefair.com/fair/
Jul 7th, 2015, 07:49 AM
#18
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks, Deb
Yes, Daniel Williams is the guru for traveling without a car.
His trips are accessible at
http://www.fodors.com/community/prof...niel_williams/
He seems like a genuinely nice and modest person who gets to amazing places with no car, e.g. St Augustine, FL.
Yes, Daniel Williams is the guru for traveling without a car.
His trips are accessible at
http://www.fodors.com/community/prof...niel_williams/
He seems like a genuinely nice and modest person who gets to amazing places with no car, e.g. St Augustine, FL.
Jul 7th, 2015, 09:18 AM
#19
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks everyone for the suggestions and more general points.
Some good and interesting ideas there.
The State Fairs sound particularly good as does the Burlington itinerary. I had been curious about Asheville but am now slightly discouraged.
Are there any particularly evocative sporting events in the offing or interesting arts festivals?
Thanks for your help.
Tim
Some good and interesting ideas there.
The State Fairs sound particularly good as does the Burlington itinerary. I had been curious about Asheville but am now slightly discouraged.
Are there any particularly evocative sporting events in the offing or interesting arts festivals?
Thanks for your help.
Tim
Jul 7th, 2015, 09:29 AM
#20
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,248
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Asheville is a fantastic small city, but if you're looking for quintessential small-town America it's not quite that, is all. As others have stated, the kind of thing you seem to be after is hard to get to without a car, and small towns with a compact, working town center are fewer and further between nowadays, especially outside of New England.
I've been to the Indiana state fair a couple of times and love that idea, if it's feasible via public transport. If you go, have a lemon shake-up for me.
I've been to the Indiana state fair a couple of times and love that idea, if it's feasible via public transport. If you go, have a lemon shake-up for me.
