Dec / Jan in the USA- advice
Sep 16th, 2014, 11:10 PM
#1
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Dec / Jan in the USA- advice
Hi everyone
As a teacher in Australia, my long break is in Dec / Jan.... so I have the opportunity to travel for 4-5 weeks at this time of the year.
We have ravelled to the USA in summer and visited New York, Vegas, San Francisco, San Diego and parks such as Yosemite and Bryce. We just love the USA and so want to see more, but haven't travelled in winter time before.
We are after some ideas / advice regarding:
Pros / cons to travelling in the US in winter
Things to be wary of
We are into photography, history, walking - not so much skiing - so any recommendations on where to go
We would definitely incorporate a return NY trip and to Vegas!
As a teacher in Australia, my long break is in Dec / Jan.... so I have the opportunity to travel for 4-5 weeks at this time of the year.
We have ravelled to the USA in summer and visited New York, Vegas, San Francisco, San Diego and parks such as Yosemite and Bryce. We just love the USA and so want to see more, but haven't travelled in winter time before.
We are after some ideas / advice regarding:
Pros / cons to travelling in the US in winter
Things to be wary of
We are into photography, history, walking - not so much skiing - so any recommendations on where to go
We would definitely incorporate a return NY trip and to Vegas!
Sep 17th, 2014, 01:33 AM
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Oddly enough, you have already been most of the places one would suggest for that time of year.
Obvious places would be Arizona, New Mexico, Big Bend National Park, New Orleans, Charleston, SC, and Washington, DC, and places in between. New York and Philadelphia are easy by train from Washington.
All have mild climates if not warm ones at this time of year.
Driving or flying, you have to accept the fact that travel over a period that long is going to be disrupted sometime by weather, if not the weather where you are, then the weather where you are trying to go or where your plane is coming from.
If I were staying in budget hotels and saw bad weather approaching, I would check into a better hotel, one with food service, for a couple of days. Bring plenty to read, buy a bottle of wine, and enjoy a day or two in your hotel, especially if it has an indoor pool!
The farther north you travel, the more likelihood of bad weather but the better the ability of local authorities to deal with it. Ice in the south is worse than snow in the north.
Do not drive into bad weather, ever, expecting it to get better. It almost never does, and early morning and early evening ice on roads is especially deadly.
You don't need heavy coats but you do need layers: a fleece vest, a light quilted jacket to wear over it, and a wind proof and waterproof anorak to wear over that. You will want gloves. Most of these things can be bought cheaply in charity shops like Goodwill and donated back when you go home.
Obvious places would be Arizona, New Mexico, Big Bend National Park, New Orleans, Charleston, SC, and Washington, DC, and places in between. New York and Philadelphia are easy by train from Washington.
All have mild climates if not warm ones at this time of year.
Driving or flying, you have to accept the fact that travel over a period that long is going to be disrupted sometime by weather, if not the weather where you are, then the weather where you are trying to go or where your plane is coming from.
If I were staying in budget hotels and saw bad weather approaching, I would check into a better hotel, one with food service, for a couple of days. Bring plenty to read, buy a bottle of wine, and enjoy a day or two in your hotel, especially if it has an indoor pool!
The farther north you travel, the more likelihood of bad weather but the better the ability of local authorities to deal with it. Ice in the south is worse than snow in the north.
Do not drive into bad weather, ever, expecting it to get better. It almost never does, and early morning and early evening ice on roads is especially deadly.
You don't need heavy coats but you do need layers: a fleece vest, a light quilted jacket to wear over it, and a wind proof and waterproof anorak to wear over that. You will want gloves. Most of these things can be bought cheaply in charity shops like Goodwill and donated back when you go home.
Sep 17th, 2014, 03:15 AM
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Good advice from Ackislander. I would suggest that you try to do the east coast at the end of your trip, after the Christmas/NY holidays if cost and availability of lodging in NY matters to you.
One possible route would be to fly to San Francisco, spend a couple of days to get rid of jet lag, drive to LA on the coast hwy for 2/3 days. Then since you want to go to Vegas, drive to Vegas and spend a night or two in Death Valley. While in Vegas, go to Valley of Fire and Red Rock Canyon for great pictures during the day and do the town at night. Check the weather and head for Grand Canyon via Hoover Dam, as long as it is not Christmas, lodging there should be available. Next, either back to Vegas to fly east or drive south to Sedona, Phoenix, Tucson, etc. before turning in the car and flying east. I would include time in Washington DC on the east coast part of the trip and you can easily use public transportation there and in NYC, but will probably want a car if you visit Charleston, Savannah etc.
In addition to the uncertainty of the weather at that time of year, a negative is the number of daylight hours. The farther north you go the shorter the days. On the positive side, in and between the east coast cities (DC, Philadelphia, NYC, Boston) you can use trains and subways that tend to be less affected by snow/sleet.
One possible route would be to fly to San Francisco, spend a couple of days to get rid of jet lag, drive to LA on the coast hwy for 2/3 days. Then since you want to go to Vegas, drive to Vegas and spend a night or two in Death Valley. While in Vegas, go to Valley of Fire and Red Rock Canyon for great pictures during the day and do the town at night. Check the weather and head for Grand Canyon via Hoover Dam, as long as it is not Christmas, lodging there should be available. Next, either back to Vegas to fly east or drive south to Sedona, Phoenix, Tucson, etc. before turning in the car and flying east. I would include time in Washington DC on the east coast part of the trip and you can easily use public transportation there and in NYC, but will probably want a car if you visit Charleston, Savannah etc.
In addition to the uncertainty of the weather at that time of year, a negative is the number of daylight hours. The farther north you go the shorter the days. On the positive side, in and between the east coast cities (DC, Philadelphia, NYC, Boston) you can use trains and subways that tend to be less affected by snow/sleet.
Sep 17th, 2014, 04:43 AM
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Dec in NYC is absolutely magical - incredible festivities and celebrations - but because of that it's the most crowded and expensive time of year. (Hotel prices in Jan will be half or less than those in Dec). So you need to decide on a fantastic experience at big $ or a much quieter city at bargain prices.
Although NYC is not in the snow belt (that starts about 100 miles farther north) a substantial amount of snow is possible any time in Dec - March. We've had 9" as early as end Oct and while the worst storms are usually Jan or Feb a blizzard - 20" or more or snow with white outs and surface traffic stopped for a day or more - is perfectly possible any time in winter. On the other hand you can easily be here for a week and see no snow at all. But you can expect cold temps (high may be 40 or 20 - farenheit) and you will need winter clothing - warm coat, hat, scarf, gloves, warm lined boots with non-skid soles for ice and sleet. DC may be a little warmer - or maybe not. And winter weather can reach well down into most of the country - and all of the mountain areas. (For perspective, some years NYC gets lights snow - 2 or 3" a couple f times and other years may have a dozen or more storms of 8-10" or more - or a 30" blizzard).
And it's true that northern cities are prepared and can recover from a major storm fairly quickly while a couple of inches of snow - or worse an ice storm - can close a southern city for a week - since they don;t have the infrastructure (snow plows, sand supplies, heavy duty garbage trucks and large staff working 12 on and 12 off) to deal with it.
To completely avoid bad weather you really need to stay far south - FL, NO, etc - and major storms can play havoc with the entire national flight pattern - delaying people for a couple of days at times. So don't plan things too tightly since a delay of a day or so is always possible.
That said, the snow is beautiful if you want to see it and you might consider spending a couple of days in CO or VT - even if you don;t want to ski there are all sorts of other winter sports. If not that then I would stick with cities where you can do as many indoor things as you want.
For beach weather in midwinter the only reliable places are Hawaii and Puerto Rico - southern FL may be warm but can also have chilly weather. In CA this is the rainy system and it's not swimming weather and often not beach weather.
Although NYC is not in the snow belt (that starts about 100 miles farther north) a substantial amount of snow is possible any time in Dec - March. We've had 9" as early as end Oct and while the worst storms are usually Jan or Feb a blizzard - 20" or more or snow with white outs and surface traffic stopped for a day or more - is perfectly possible any time in winter. On the other hand you can easily be here for a week and see no snow at all. But you can expect cold temps (high may be 40 or 20 - farenheit) and you will need winter clothing - warm coat, hat, scarf, gloves, warm lined boots with non-skid soles for ice and sleet. DC may be a little warmer - or maybe not. And winter weather can reach well down into most of the country - and all of the mountain areas. (For perspective, some years NYC gets lights snow - 2 or 3" a couple f times and other years may have a dozen or more storms of 8-10" or more - or a 30" blizzard).
And it's true that northern cities are prepared and can recover from a major storm fairly quickly while a couple of inches of snow - or worse an ice storm - can close a southern city for a week - since they don;t have the infrastructure (snow plows, sand supplies, heavy duty garbage trucks and large staff working 12 on and 12 off) to deal with it.
To completely avoid bad weather you really need to stay far south - FL, NO, etc - and major storms can play havoc with the entire national flight pattern - delaying people for a couple of days at times. So don't plan things too tightly since a delay of a day or so is always possible.
That said, the snow is beautiful if you want to see it and you might consider spending a couple of days in CO or VT - even if you don;t want to ski there are all sorts of other winter sports. If not that then I would stick with cities where you can do as many indoor things as you want.
For beach weather in midwinter the only reliable places are Hawaii and Puerto Rico - southern FL may be warm but can also have chilly weather. In CA this is the rainy system and it's not swimming weather and often not beach weather.
Sep 17th, 2014, 05:44 AM
#5
Basically you have received good advice above HOWEVER ask all those people about the Winter we had in the USA LAST year. It was not "mild" in many of the usually so-called "mild winter" places.
Southern Florida rarely has any "chilly" weather lasting more than a few hours and that is usually over night. CENTRAL and NORTHERN Florida can have frost.
If you want guaranteed warm weather then I agree Puerto Rico, Hawaii, or the US Virgin Islands would be safe bets.
Southern Florida rarely has any "chilly" weather lasting more than a few hours and that is usually over night. CENTRAL and NORTHERN Florida can have frost.
If you want guaranteed warm weather then I agree Puerto Rico, Hawaii, or the US Virgin Islands would be safe bets.
Sep 17th, 2014, 09:25 AM
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I wouldn't plan a winter trip to the US in the northern part (Chicago, etc) or New England. Otherwise, there can be a blizzard but usually there isn't, so it's playing odds (like DC or NYC). Even Atlanta had some bad storm last year, as I recall.
I don't know why the talk is of beaches, the OP never said anything about that and they are from Australia so don't need to come to the US for beaches. I think the answer to this question is just obvious, look at a map and pick southern places if you want to walk around a lot, etc. I'd pick AZ, New Mexico, New Orleans, and maybe even Texas and South Carolina. You cold throw in Florida if you want, I just don't think there is anything that fascinating there. The Gulf can be pretty, though.
I don't know why the talk is of beaches, the OP never said anything about that and they are from Australia so don't need to come to the US for beaches. I think the answer to this question is just obvious, look at a map and pick southern places if you want to walk around a lot, etc. I'd pick AZ, New Mexico, New Orleans, and maybe even Texas and South Carolina. You cold throw in Florida if you want, I just don't think there is anything that fascinating there. The Gulf can be pretty, though.
Sep 17th, 2014, 09:57 AM
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I second the recommendations for the south~New Orleans, Savannah, and Charleston are rich in history and have beautiful photography opportunities. My family and I spent a week on Hilton Head last December and loved it.
I think emalloy has given you a great beginning for an itinerary. If you start from there and add eastern destinations, I think you'll have a fabulous trip!!
I think emalloy has given you a great beginning for an itinerary. If you start from there and add eastern destinations, I think you'll have a fabulous trip!!
Sep 17th, 2014, 11:08 AM
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NY is so fabulous in December that I would forgive it any bad weather and high prices, and do it anyway!
Maybe New York - DC - then south to Charleston and Savannah, then Nashville (if its of interest) or Florida - New Orleans, then if there's still time, fly to Arizona. Note that the higher elevations in Arizona get plenty cold in winter.
Maybe New York - DC - then south to Charleston and Savannah, then Nashville (if its of interest) or Florida - New Orleans, then if there's still time, fly to Arizona. Note that the higher elevations in Arizona get plenty cold in winter.
Sep 17th, 2014, 05:45 PM
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ackislander, you have a more sanguine view of Washington, DC than I do. We lived in the suburbs for three years and there were snowfalls that brought the city to its knees. They have published "snow routes," which would seem unnecessary if the climate were as mild as you say it is. Never lived in New York (but lived in Connecticut) and not a winter went past without a major snowstorm or two.
I would advise the OP to stay south of Norfolk, Virginia.
I would advise the OP to stay south of Norfolk, Virginia.
Sep 17th, 2014, 09:22 PM
#11
For wintertime travel in the US, I favor a manner of travel different from renting a car for long distances or flying between cities. I am an advocate for travel by Amtrak (trains).
You have plenty of time to use a 15 or 30 day USA Rail Pass(es).
If you can't tolerate sleeping overnight in coach, there are roomettes available.
Coming from Australia, fly to either San Francisco or Los Angeles.
Take the California Zephyr from San Francisco to Glenwood Springs Colorado. Spend a day or two there before heading onward to Chicago. Spend a day or two in Chicago before heading to New York on the Lake Shore Limited. Leaving NYC, take a train to Baltimore or Washington. Leaving Washington the Crescent goes south overnight to Atlanta. The Crescent continues onward to New Orleans. Spend some time in New Orleans.
From New Orleans you have two choices. You can go north to Chicago on the "City of New Orleans" (via Memphis).
The other choice would be to take the Sunset Limited west through Texas and all the way to Tucson Arizona. This train only runs 3 days a week. Spend a few days in Arizona perhaps renting a car to see some of the many things of interest in Arizona.
Continue onward to Los Angeles.
If the choice was going back to Chicago you go on the Southwest Chief to Albuquerque and then onward to Los Angeles.
From Los Angeles you can ride on the Coast Starlight back to San Francisco.
You have plenty of time to use a 15 or 30 day USA Rail Pass(es).
If you can't tolerate sleeping overnight in coach, there are roomettes available.
Coming from Australia, fly to either San Francisco or Los Angeles.
Take the California Zephyr from San Francisco to Glenwood Springs Colorado. Spend a day or two there before heading onward to Chicago. Spend a day or two in Chicago before heading to New York on the Lake Shore Limited. Leaving NYC, take a train to Baltimore or Washington. Leaving Washington the Crescent goes south overnight to Atlanta. The Crescent continues onward to New Orleans. Spend some time in New Orleans.
From New Orleans you have two choices. You can go north to Chicago on the "City of New Orleans" (via Memphis).
The other choice would be to take the Sunset Limited west through Texas and all the way to Tucson Arizona. This train only runs 3 days a week. Spend a few days in Arizona perhaps renting a car to see some of the many things of interest in Arizona.
Continue onward to Los Angeles.
If the choice was going back to Chicago you go on the Southwest Chief to Albuquerque and then onward to Los Angeles.
From Los Angeles you can ride on the Coast Starlight back to San Francisco.
Sep 18th, 2014, 03:20 AM
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Thank you all so much for the hugely useful and interesting advice. I've got a lot of thinking to do! No doubt I'll be back with more questions! I really appreciate your time and knowledge!
Sep 18th, 2014, 09:22 AM
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You should be aware that in the US train travel can be extemely frustrating. The NE corridor - Boston down through DC has frequent service and it's generally on time (within 15 minutes or so). In the rest of the country service is spotty at best - since the tracks are owned by the freight companies an their trains take precedence over passenger trains. Many major cities have no train service, others have 1 train per day and they are very frequently late - often hours, many hours late. (And trains frequently cost MORE than planes - besides taking 18 to 20 hours or more for what would be a 2 or 3 hour flight.)
So I strongly reco that outside the NE corridor you stick to planes between cities and public transit within cities if possible - with a car for touring countryside.
So I strongly reco that outside the NE corridor you stick to planes between cities and public transit within cities if possible - with a car for touring countryside.
Sep 27th, 2014, 10:31 PM
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Hi again..... still formulating plans but definitely looking at NY for 5-7 days at beginning of trip. We've been to NY once and just loved it but felt we only scratched the surface. What do you recommend for NY in December?
Sep 28th, 2014, 10:04 AM
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For NYC in December look at the special events (always the Nutcracker ballet at Lincoln Center and Christmas Spectacular at Radio City Music Hall) plus TONS of other holiday activities the windows of the major stores are brilliantly decorated (animatronics worthy of Disney) but expect long lines to see them, visit St Pat's and the wonderful tree/skating rink and gorgeous decorations at Rock Center. Also walk up and down Fifth Ave and upper Madison (designed boutiques).
We try to have dinner each year at the Sea Grill and watch the skaters outside the window. Also great trees at the Met (antique Neapolitan tree and creche) and Mus Nat'l Hist (origami tree). There is also a huge Christmas Market in Bryant Park (behind the main library, which you should also visit - gorgeous reading room and always interesting exhibits) and skating rinks there and in Central Park. Grand Central Station (beautifully restored) also has a nice Christmas Market.
Store are open forever (I think some 24 hours a day and there are continual sales - but be prepared to fight your way through them).
What is key is reserving a hotel ASAP - many book up very quickly (some may already be sold out) and the longer you wait the higher the prices.
We try to have dinner each year at the Sea Grill and watch the skaters outside the window. Also great trees at the Met (antique Neapolitan tree and creche) and Mus Nat'l Hist (origami tree). There is also a huge Christmas Market in Bryant Park (behind the main library, which you should also visit - gorgeous reading room and always interesting exhibits) and skating rinks there and in Central Park. Grand Central Station (beautifully restored) also has a nice Christmas Market.
Store are open forever (I think some 24 hours a day and there are continual sales - but be prepared to fight your way through them).
What is key is reserving a hotel ASAP - many book up very quickly (some may already be sold out) and the longer you wait the higher the prices.
