emily69

My wife and I are looking to move South, away from the awful Massachusetts weather. We are strongly considering the Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill area. Everything we seem to read is positive for the most part.
The most important characteristics that we are looking for are but not necessarily in this order:

1. Strong School System
2. Short commuting distance to work
3. Affordable homes (i.e. decent homes for

Ackislander

I moved from the South to Boston. I went to graduate school at UNC, and my kids went to undergraduate school there. I worked in Research Triangle Park. I still love the area. That said . . . .

You will trade cold, snowy winters for ice storms (google Raleigh a year ago and there was one, not so bad,at the beginning of this week). NC has muggy summers that go on from May 15 through September with lots of thunderstorms. One kind of weather is not better than another, it is just what suits you. Air conditioning is universal, storm windows are not.

Your commute depends entirely on where you work, and you didn't say what you do. Highway 54 is still to be avoided. There are lots of terrible drivers, but they are mostly clueless, not aggressive like Boston drivers.

Houses will be more affordable, and it is a very family friendly area, but much of family life is organized around mostly Protestant churches. There are plenty of Roman Catholic and even orthodox churches, to say nothing of Synagogues of various persuasion, but Protestants are dominant. Baptist churches seem to be on every corner the way Catholic parishes do in Boston.

State universities are generally highly respected, and many important lawyers, officials, and business executives who would have gone to a private college in New England will have set least one degree from a State university.

Politics: NC used to be the most liberal state in the South. The government seems to have been taken over by the Tea Party with negative consequences for the universities in particular. If you believe the Boston Globe's view of the world, you may feel that you have entered an alternate universe. Whether this drives you crazy or you can let it go depends on you.

Race: in general, race relations seem to be better in the Upper South than in Boston. By that, I mean that African-Americans are well-represented in the white collar/technical/professional workforce, and most Caucasians have more experience working with and socializing with African Americans than in Boston. African Americans are still much more represented on lower income groups than they should be, but because they make up a much larger proportion of the population, they make up a more substantial proportion of the middle class. Segregation is mostly economic and cultural rather than imposed. The number of East and South Asians is much lower than in Boston, but there are substantial numbers in the university and research community.

The Triangle is just far enough from the ocean that you can't really make a comfortable day trip to the beach. The mountains are just far enough that you will want a three day weekend to go off to explore them. But the local area has a very outdoorsy way of life, from huntin' and fishin' to cycling, kayaking, camping, running, hiking, etc. I love traditional Southern cooking, and NC has a ton of it, much of it locavore. Big foodie scenes throughout.

Would I go back? It's too far from the ocean for me to settle there again at this point in life. But I visit a lot and though I am not a Tarheel born, I might wind up a Tarheel dead, to quote the UNC alma mater.

Does that help?

starrs

What a great recap!

Tell her about spring! The daffodils are up and spring will really be here soon.
http://raleighskyline.com/images/03....ine.com_24.jpg

cmcfong

For several years I lived at the Center of the Universe, 236 Newbury St, I moved to North Carolina because I thought ( correctly as it turns out) it offered better employment opportunities for me. That was almost forty years ago. I still loathe Boston winters; but, I miss the atmosphere, the excitement and the sheer joy of strolling through the city that is a village at heart. I think I would go crazy if it weren't easy for me to get my Boston fix. Ackislander did a nice job with the comparison. I would add the politics are horrible. We have tipped very far right after years as moderates.

starrs

Starrs, the broken record, suggests a look at Asheville.
It's where I'd move...and may still move yet.

travelgourmet

I have never lived in NC, but work with many that do, and if the primary concern is with the schools, then look at Cary. Avoid Durham. Chapel Hill is good, but super-expensive. Morrisville is an option.

Best of luck. NC is a great state.

travelgourmet

I have never lived in NC, but work with many that do, and if the primary concern is with the schools, then look at Cary. Avoid Durham. Chapel Hill is good, but super-expensive. Morrisville is an option.

Best of luck. NC is a great state.

Gretchen

Ack has given a terrific overview. There are other attractive places. NC is a really great state.
Winston Salem has a LOT to offer in all the areas you speak of with maybe a little less congestion. Charlotte?
What are the employment possibilities?
And we can hope the politics have gone as far right as they can and the pendulum will start back.

cmcfong

Gretchen, we can only hope!

Ozarksbill

Yes, I did enjoy reading Ackislander's comments. I'm sure NC has much to commend itself but we could not be happy with th present political leanings. Surely a primary thing should be employment. This is a first post by emily69, prompted no doubt by the unusually heavy snowfalls and cold. I am wondering if poster is a long time Bostonian. Yes, we are all winter weary but I do see temps rising next week. Daffodils here starrs?
(from one moving from Missouri to Watertown, MA)

thursdaysd

I moved to the Research Triangle area from the UK nearly forty years ago. I agree with everything Ackislander said, but especially about churches and summers. I went from a pub on every street corner to a church on every street corner, and from working with a bunch of atheists to a bunch of born again baptists (same job!). I did subsequently discover the Unitarian Universalists, which helped.

My biggest problem with living here is the summer weather. Didn't matter as much when I was working, but now I hibernate for much of the summer - far too hot, far too humid, far too many mosquitoes - I can get bitten just getting the mail. I am seriously considering a move to somewhere more temperate.

While we do get snow (just had some) and ice storms are a real danger, there is surely no comparison to what Boston has been suffering. That said, at this point all weather patterns are changing, so there are no guarantees either way.

Also note that public transport here is primitive. You will need to drive everywhere (except possibly if you live in Chapel Hill?).

Gretchen

Actually in charlotte you can live along the blue line and the adage DID come true--if you build it they will come. It is an incredible piece of urban revitalization. BUT it is only one line at the moment.
Summers "can" be absolutely awful--or not. But long ago I learned that if you enjoy camellias to be blooming at Christmas, you aren't going to be living in Massachusetts. LOL
The church thing can be whatever you make of it--do it or don't--your choice, just like everywhere else. For some it can be a tremendous introduction to the city.

Ozarksbill

Enjoying comments. Re: thursdaysd...a chuckle about churches (Baptists) instead of pubs. There is something about Southern Baptists that can make me cringe being active in a liberal church...glad you found a UU fellowship. And there is a certain enjoyment in English/Irish pubs with the music flowing. As for transportation we do frequently rely on bus or subway now whereas not so in Missouri. Of course with this %$#@&^ snow the T has not been working well, but then I'm retired and in no hurry to get anywhere.

emily69

Thank you everyone for your input. I appreciate it. Ozarksbill - I am a Bostonian, lived right outside Boston all my life until 3 years ago I moved with my husband and kids further North up toward the New Hampshire boarder to get away from the hussle and bussle. Thank you all again I appreciate it.

HKP

Ackislander and other reverse-carpetbaggers here have made some good comments. I just did the same thing, and here's what I'll add after 21 years in Chapel Hill, having been born in MA and lived in NY, VA, IL, before NC -- and now I'm "home" again to a changed but recognizable Boston.

What I disliked about NC: those interminable, debilitating, relentlessly hot and humid summers. Just as you have to strategize about clothes, driving, parking, etc. in the winter in Boston, you end up sweating (literally) the same things in the summer heat of NC. Oddly, I noticed that July 4th isn't a particularly big, well-celebrated holiday there, and of course Patriot's Day isn't even a holiday at all -- and even Christmas will seem tepid, not nearly as much house decorating (more for Hallowe'en) and of course, probably no snow.

In honesty, I came to hate the race scene, which is superficially more civil than you might expect, but there's still a lot under the surface, including voting in voters' ID and some educational and law enforcement issues. Except in a few enclaves (Chapel Hill-Durham, and Asheville), it's not esp. gay friendly either. You may think all that doesn't matter if you're a straight white, but it gets to you. It got to me, bigtime.

I missed the northeastern style of season changes, especially years with no snow at all. Falls are nice but the leaves aren't as brilliant; springs are nice but what locals consider late spring you'll consider deep summer, by June. And the ice storms are, IMHO, far worse than most blizzards (except for the 4-week long one we had this year in Boston).

I also never quite got used to having to shmooze and ease your way into any discussion of anything, lest your bluntness make you seem one of those awful Yankees (and I don't mean baseball team). Outside of places like Cary and Chapel Hill (and sometimes even there), they never EVER forget you aren't originally from the South, and they don't basically like people from up north because they have no manners and are always in a hurry. In fact, they can be rude about saying things "oh, I hated it up there, you know how those people in Boston are" in front of you.

Chapel Hill and several areas are in the throes of heavy, pretty much unfettered commercial and mixed development. The hoops Mass. puts developers through just disappear down there. When you go househunting, bear that in mind and look around.

Although I sometimes don't agree with travelgourmet but re: NC schools - right on target! Yes, do look at Cary -- Chapel Hill's have been faltering badly, and Durham is always a mixed bag. (If you aren't happy with the public schools, however, your private-school pickings are much slimmer than up here.)

What I miss about NC and you'll come to enjoy: the long falls and springs; the amount of nature you're living with -- so much prettier than so much of 'dirty old beantown' and you'll get used to having trees and flowers and wildlife around your larger and wide-open house. Also loved how pretty NC is, as a state, at it's eastern and western edges. You can drive to Wilmington and Wrightsville Beach in about 2 hrs. and to Asheville or Blowing Rock, and the Blue Ridge Parkway in about 4 -- both great getaways for much if not all of the year.

And this surprised me, but you have to work a lot harder to shop around Boston than in the Triangle -- since there are only a few communities with enough money and population to draw the 'anchor' stores, you don't have to go as far and you can usually park easily. Burlington and Dedham can almost equal Durham's Southpoint and Raleigh's Triangle Town Center, but not quite.

What you may or may not miss about Boston - having a river and a harbor (the Triangle has neither); having a hub airport; public transportation, both the MBTA and Amtrak; world class art, music, drama, sports, journalism; a sense of humor about itself. You are not just trading north for south, you are also trading coastal-urban-hub for midstate small-city-cluster.

Pfew, I'm exhausted. Good luck, keep us posted.

HKP

Well, I can't quite go to bed yet: about development and househunting. If you look at Chapel Hill, it will be expensive compared to other areas (but in no way compared to Boston -- you'll get 4 times the space and upgrades for the same price), and some developers try to say that Chapel Hill is very unfriendly to development. Chapel Hill is expensive because it wants to be, but it's become downright inviting for developers of upscale and upscale-student housing or mixed commercial use with a recent change in town government. When I said to "look around," I meant to make sure your house isn't in an area that developers have their eye on -- some areas are in the process of becoming overdeveloped, and some residential areas are sometimes left with clear-cutting all around and unoccupied highrises in their back yard. Cary was a major focus of development a while ago, but now it's a more stable area for the most part; and there are parts of Durham (north and west) that are lovely.

starrs

Overall, I'm not a big fan of NC. I agree with just about everything written above.

But IMO Asheville is the exception.
It's liberal. It's completely different from the rest of NC. It's more "Boston-like" in his liberalness.

It's cooler. The horrible heat and humidity of summer in the rest of NC gets a pass in the mountains of western NC.

The schools are good but there are innovative private schools also.

There's great food and music.

It's very gay-friendly and accepting and "live and let live".

There are a lot of transplants and being a Yankee is not as big of a deal.

There's a lot to say positive about the south - and there are lots of negatives too. I was visiting with a couple about my age who moved out to rural Georgia from San Francisco. Talk about culture shock. But they have reached out and found like minded folks and really love the good things about their new home.

I find it mind-boggling that someone cannot walk to the end of their driveway in summer. I have no suggestions for that - other than move. Lots of people are out walking, running, picnicking and enjoy summer even with the heat and humidity. And they don't shovel one shovelful of snow all winter. Spring is here today. It's 70 degrees at night, the windows are open, the frogs are loud and spring has sprung. Let us know when you melt out of your accumulation.

travelgourmet

It's more "Boston-like" in his liberalness.

I don't think Boston nearly as liberal as the reputation. Maybe superficially or about politics, but Boston (and the entire area) has some pretty significant problems with tolerance and inclusive diversity.

thursdaysd

" And they don't shovel one shovelful of snow all winter. "

This year they did.

Asheville would have better weather in the summer, but could be harder for jobs.

HKP

starrs, agree re: Asheville. But they do get more snow than the Piedmont, but depends a lot on elevation. And it's very pretty, even compared to the rest of NC.

travelgourmet, agree re: "Boston-like" liberalness. And after all, there's a Republican governor. Again. Factor in the very wealthy suburbs, and it's not exactly blue through and through.