Christmas in New York City

We were there at about the same this past year. One of the things we really enjoyed was taking the ferry to the Statue of Liberty and Ellis Island.

Also, not sure where you live, but we live in Georgia, and so we had prepared for much colder weather. However, it was cold in NYC even for them, and we were glad we had long underwear, hats, gloves, big coats, etc. Be sure to check the weather before you go and be prepared for COLD.

We spent an hour or two at Grand Central Terminal and didn't feel like we needed a tour.

You are going to be here at the BEST time of year IMHO. The windows and decorations are so beautiful, it really makes the whole city SHINE.

A couple of things I thought I would add to your list. A MUST see during the holidays is the "Tree" at the Met Museum. It is an annual event, and well worth the trip to the museum. It is decorated with priceless small statues from the 1400's -1600's. The museum has a guide you can pick up about the tree or try the museum website. Also check the website for special exhibits open while you are here.

The Museum of Natural History also has a big tree, decorated by local kids doing oregamy. There are also great exhibits there that your kids would love (Central Park West and 79th St), and you might want to see the Planetarium as well.

There are a couple of other big trees in town, City Hall, 2 Wall ST, ST. Vincent's Hospital, (7th Ave around 12th ST) and LINCOLN CENTER, has a beautiful tree. You might make it kind of a special hunt to see all the big christmas trees in the city.

Check the website for Carnegie Hall, as there are usually some GREAT concerts there over the holidays, Oh and Lincoln Center too. All of the major 100-200 member choruses do concerts in December so you might be able to find one of those.

The Empire State is a great view of the city, but the problem is that all the tourists coming think so too, so you will spend litterally HOURS inline to get inline, and then to get tickets then get inline for the elevators then inline to get back down. A better idea is to walk around the ESB an then go uptown to the Top of The Rock, less wait time and the view OF the ESB is beautiful.

Get a good map / tour guide book of the city so you have some idea of where things are in reference to what you want to see, and plan your site seeing based on areas. Downtown- South ST. Seaport, WTC, Ellis Island, Wall St, Chinatown, Little Italy are all within walking distance so you might pick a day to see everything there. Also if you are getting tickets to Broadway, you might try the TKTS booth at the South St. Seaport, half price tickets there. If there is something you really want to see get tickets in advance. TKTS is a hit or miss thing, but you can get really lucky there as well and see a great show for ALOT less.

Over the holidays we have "gridlock" days, and the already bumper to bumper traffic is WORSE, so you might not want to do your car tour, since you will be spending so much time in traffic to see anything it may not be worth the price. If you get a good guide book it may be easier to do the tour yourselves.

A personal favorite museum is The Cloisters which is part of the MET and up in my area of Manhattan. Take the A train to 191st St and you can walk up through Ft. Tryon Park, or take the Bus (bus stops at the subway stop and will drop you off in front of the museum). You are still in Manhattan but will feel a world away. Beautiful views of the Hudson from there. It is the highest point on Manhattan Island.

Also as mentioned earlier the TRAFFIC during the holdiays is AWFUL, think of the worst traffic in your area and tripple it. That's what we have to deal with each holiday season. So get a METRO CARD, and use it to get around the city, subways and buses. If you get an unlimited card for each of you for the time you will be here, you will save alot of time and cabfares. The subway is the easiest way to get around over the holidays.

Ok that's my 2 cents.

Have a great time while you are here.

Ah... you're staying at the Regency (right?). anyhow you're staying in a wonderful location. the Nutcracker performances of NYC Ballet are a big part of the NYC Christmas season. Tickets go fast. If you're interested I"d check with the concierge at your hotel. A special rest. near your hotel is Park Avenue Winter. (Used to be Park Avenue Cafe.) Pricey... but gets good reviews.
Check out Zagat... or (not as good) menupages.com

The only problem with your trip might be the weather. There does not seeem to flexibility with switching outdoor activities and indoor activities.

The other thing I would recommend is to eat in the residential areas during that week. The theatre district and midtown are nuts.

As travel buff has ponited out both pedestrian traffic and vehicular traffic are beyond insane that week.

Special dinner

Cafe Boulud

PS...Don't know what your budget is for that special nite... but if you want to throw all caution to the winds you might consider L'Atelier du Joel Robuchon in the Four Seasons Hotel (on 57th between Park and Madison.) They have table service... but sitting at the "bar" is great fun. (Tho I must admit when we've done this (twice) it's been at his original Atelier in Paris.)

I fyou have reservations for the Statue of Liberty it should tell you what ferry to take. You need to allow 45 minutes on line for security to get o n the ferry and then time for the ferry to get to Liberty island. Typically they tell people to get to South Ferry 2 hours ahead of the time of you tickets to the Statue - but I would contact them and ask - as this time of year will be incredibly busy.

And agree you need to be prepared for the cold (esp windy and dampif near/on the water). We usually don't get much snow before Christmas, but a couple of years ago got 12" on Chrstmas eve. Won;t be a long-term problem in the city - since the subway is underground and buses large enough not to be stopped by that much snow. But you need warm winter coats, hats, scarves, gloves and waterproof booties with non-skid soles (ice can hang around for a while.)

Agree you need to be flexible based on weather - you can get a day in the 40's when Central Park is beautiful - or you can get a day when more than 10 minutes there is just too much.

Thanks, everyone, for the replies. One thing I forgot to include on our "wish list" is to go see the MOMA. May Vincent and Andrew W. forgive me for the omission. We'll probably go see the Nutcracker on Dec. 27 at 5 pm, right after our Greenwich Village food tour/exploration.

Samsaf,

Noted: Will allow approx 2 hrs at Grand Central Terminal, and will bring the appropriate cold weather clothes/coats/accessories.

Travelbuff,

Will be sure to check out the tree at the Met. We already have our tickets for Billy Eliott, Hair, and Radio City Music Hall as we didn't want to risk not being able to see those.

Noted your advice to go to the Top of the Rock instead of the Empire State Bldg., but we feel that our teens would really think it's the "coolest" to be able to go up the ESB. We'll just get the Express Pass tickets that I understand will let us go to the front of each of the lines. Have heard that these tickets will literally save us hours of standing in line.

Yes, we will make sure we get Metro Cards. We've mastered the Metro in Washington, D.C. but I'm afraid that the NYC subway system is a whole different beast.

Gwendolynn,

Yes, we're staying at the Regency. First time in that hotel. I checked menupages.com but could only come up with Park Avenue Summer and Park Avenue Bistro when I searched for "Park Avenue Winter".

Regarding our anniversary dinner, if we took the teens back to the hotel and have them order room service, the budget will probably be able to manage L'Atelier du Joel Robuchon per your suggestion. What's the suggested attire?

Aduchamp1,
Cafe Boulud sounds good - maybe after the Nutcracker ballet on the 27th. That will be our final dinner in the city.

nytraveler,
Oh dear, that means we have to be out of the hotel really early to make it to the 8 am date with Lady Liberty. That was the only time available that would give us crown access - everything else had sold out.

Regarding winter coats - we each have very heavy parka-length down coats. Will make sure we all get the right boots in case we get a lot of the white stuff. If my husband and I were to go to the nicer restaurants like Joel Robuchon, do I need to bring a dressier coat? Am just worried about the luggage limit of 1 suitcase/person. We'll be bringing quite a bit of bulky sweaters, scarves, gloves, boots, etc. that will pretty much fill up suitcases. Yikes, no room for souvenirs???

May I hear more suggestions regarding restaurants for lunch/dinner close to the places that we'll be visiting?

For our anniversary dinner, we've already noted L'Atelier de Joel Robuchon. We've heard about Per Se at a different forum. Any other comparable restaurants? For those fortunate enough to have enjoyed these places, would you recommend one? Alas, we can only have ONE special dinner, at these prices!

Thank you!

You are going to have the BEST time! You've already gotten very good advice here. As far as your anniversary, you will do your kids a favor by letting them stay in the hotel. What could be better than room service and a movie? As far as dinner, we have enjoyed Bouley and Chanterelle for anniversaries. Park Avenue Winter is convenient and good. So is Jeans Georges. But Eleven Madison just got a four star review and the room is so striking. That's where I would go.

http://events.nytimes.com/2009/08/12/dining/reviews/12rest.html?pagewanted=1&sq=eleven%20madison&st=cse&scp=1

One night, so many great choices - enjoy!

Park Avenue Bistro became Park Avenue.....the name of the current season. Although it's very good, not my choice for an anniversary dinner when visiting NY.

Just read the rest of your post. The down coat will be fine if the weather is terrible. Our anniversary is in Feb and I have gone to many a dinner in snow boots and then changed in the restaurant into a shoe. Do what works for you. You can always tell (especially on a week night) who is celebrating and who is coming from work. It doesn't matter.

They'll take your coat from you when you enter anyway, so it doesn't matter - not like you're going to hang it on the back of your chair!

As far as pre-theatre dinner goes, they are hurried and mostly average. Esca is an exception, but it's quite pricey and not sure if your kids would appreciate it. Some other possibilities: Becco (Italian), Haru (Japanese/sushi) and La Masseria (Italian).

Well..... I'll tell you a funny story about dress. My husband and I sit in the Grand Tier at the Met. I've never noticed that people dress in any special way. However, one nite in January... we had a make up performance... not our usual seats... the weather was awful. I said...I'm wearing my sneakers... who cares... we never see anyone we know. So.... we're walking into our seats.. and from the other side the people sitting next to us are advancing. It's my neighbor from four floors down! What are the chances??? Anyhow... she was wearing sneakers, too. -

"We'll be bringing quite a bit of bulky sweaters, scarves, gloves, boots, etc. that will pretty much fill up suitcases."

I wouldn't pack any "bulky" sweaters. Chances are the weather won't be that cold or snowy yet in late December. Plus, if it IS cold outdoors, when you go indoors the heat will be blasting and you will be uncomfortably hot in a bulky swaeter. Better to pack thin long-sleeved layers--like a long-sleeved T-shirt or turtleneck and another lightweight sweater or cardigan or even thin fleece vest that you could wear over it and then wear the coat over everything. Chances are that in December you won't need all those layers at once--probably just one shirt layer, a coat, and gloves with scarf. But you'll have the extra layers if you need them. I wouldn't bring snow boots--just bring shoes that are water resistant.

MOst importantly: watch the 10-day weather forecast for NYC the day before you head to NYC and adjust your packing based on the predicted temperatures and precipitation.

Per Se is way above a $100 per person.

http://www.tkrg.org/upload/ps_menu.pdf

And for name sake here are some of my favorites:

il laboratorio del gelato

http://www.yelp.com/biz/il-laboratorio-del-gelato-new-york

Grom, an Italian chain with a couple of outposts in NYC

And for reagular ice cream:

Cones on Bleecker Street
Chinatown Ice Cream factory
Ronnybrook Farms (in Chelsea Market)

You can also get additional things while here, if you find you didn't pack enough and the prices around the holiday season will be heavily discounted for Christmas. If you buy quite a bit, then buy an extra suitcase to take everything home, or pack it up and send it by mail.

Also check out the decorated Palm Trees in the World Financial Center's Winter Garden if you have the time. They are the buildings behind the World Trade Ctr. WFC also has restaurants and shopping if you need to take a lunch break indoors.

Also Gramercy Tavern is great for a special occasion dinner. I'd also rec, 11 Madison. Both are around $100 per person. Reservations can be made on opentable.com

Dress in layers for the cold weather.

Check out the SAKS window display, part of it is set to music.

West Village restaurants: Little Owl, Tartine (BYOB), Spotted Pig, Blue Ribbon Bakery, Mas, Blue Hill,

Chinatown: Peking Duck House

Per Se is fantatic - a unique experience. But we've spent about $800 for dinner each time we went - including wines. You can do it for les - but $100 won't even get you near the door.

For most "special" NYC restaurants dinner for two with a moderate wine are in the range of $300 invluding tax and tip.

It's certainly possibel to eat very well for less - but not sure what you mean by special - if it's atmosphere and food I would figure on the $300.

One of my favorites is Corton for dinner (down in Tribeca). For lunch, I absolutely love The Modern (dining room) at the Museum of Modern Art. Great food and outstanding service.

Thank you Fodorites, for lending me your expert advice! I'm carefully taking notes....

Aduchamp 1 and nytraveler:

Now, I'm in a quandary. Took a look at Per Se Aug. 30 Chef's Tasting Menu - and the first thing I saw was "Oysters and Pearls". Yum. Got all excited when I read the rest of the tasting menu. Then I saw the $275 price. Without wine. Then I backtracked and realized that the last time we had a "nice" Tasting-type dinner was at Patina in LA - about 15 years or so ago - and it was already $85, without drinks! I'd better keep up with inflation, don't you think? Now, I hate to say this, but I must then conclude that $275 for a tasting dinner, at an EXCELLENT NYC restaurant, has GOT to be quite reasonable.

Moving on....

centralparkgirl:
Saw the reviews re. Eleven Madison. Danny Meyer. Frank Bruni. Hmmmm, you're on to something here!

Solution to quandary: Anniversary dinner at Per Se, and Farewell-to-NY-dinner at Eleven Madison!!!

And, thanks so much for the heads up about il laboratorio del gelato. The Thai Chili Chocolate and the Bourbon Pecan both sound like winners to me. The Wasabi is calling me too....

I am writing down all the other restaurant recommendations you have given and will note down locations and plan our excursions around these restaurants. Thank you!!!

Aduchamp mentioned Grom for gelato. They are from Italy. If you are on the UWS, they have a location on B'way and 77th (not far from the Museum of Natural History). The cioccolato extra noir is to die for.

btw - I commend you for your solution to the restaurant quandary. It was a tough problem and you handled it beautifully! Enjoy!

Mas ($68 prix fixe) and Corton (~$80 prix fixe) will keep you within your budget - all the "big names" - Meyer, Batali, Bouloud, et. al., will run you into the $300 range. I agree to skip taking your kids.

I would skip the car tour, many of the things that you want to see are in the same area, with traffic and a meter running and just being cramped in a car, that just sounds hellish and not an efficient way to see the city.

I agree that waiting in line for the empire state is a bit much, you said you think your teens will like it better, but I would ask to be sure, or even send them off on their own while you and your husband go admire the view from the Rainbow Room over cocktails. The price for 2 drinks is less than admission rates, better yet, there is no line. Drinks at the Rainbow Room are not cheap - $14-21, but not any more than standard hotel bar prices.

From your list, most is within a walkable distance - I am just grouping some of your list together so that you can get an idea of planning a day:
For 5th Avenue, you have all of this within less than 10 blocks or so:

Fifth Avenue
Christmas Store Displays - Saks @50th, Takashimaya, Bendels, Bergdorf @56th-57th, Tiffany is across the street from Bergdorf,
Rockefeller Center - on 5th Avenue @ b/t 49th-50th
St. Patrick’s - on 5th Avenue @51st
Stop at MOMA on 53rd b/t 5th-6th Aves
You could start at Grand Central Terminal and do a walk up Fifth Ave, pop into MOMA, have lunch that the Bar Room at The Modern, then continue up 5th Ave checking out the shops, then head back to either Rockefeller Center once it gets dark.

The Met and Central Park could be combined together, you could start at the met then walk across the park to the west side where you will be able to see the Dakota, Strawberry Fields, etc. Alternately, you could combine the Frick with Central Park, it will be less exhausting of a day, depending on how much time you plan on spending at the Met. i.e. you could spends a whole day or a few hours at the Met - not sure how much time you wanted to spend there.

You have theater tickets, that should hold you for Times Square - it doesn't require a separate outing - IMO. But on one of your theater days, you can pop down a few blocks to Macy's to check out the window displays. You can just jump a train 1 stop from Times Square if it is cold or you don't feel like walking it. Alternately, you can take your train to the Theater from Macy's. Just a warning - Macy's will be a zoo inside, it is every day and will be worse over the holidays, I would not plan on popping in to shop.

Greenwich Village you can take a day to wander around.

You said you wanted to do Statue of Liberty and ferry, you could do that in the morning and head over to Chinatown after for lunch and to wander around. From Chinatown, you can either head over to Little Italy/Nolita/Soho or Little Italy/Nolita/Lower East Side. I see no point in WTC site, but it is close enough to the Statue of Liberty and ferry to combine.

Hopefully this was helpful in some way.

Hi CPG! - I never Hi'd you back the other day -):

Hi CB - glad to 'see' you. I love a logical mind and wow, you are organized! Could you do my trip to SF?

Ha!

And to think I almost never go above Rivington except for work.

As for a car tour - you should be aware that there are 6 or 7 gridlock alert days leading up to Christmas when the city advises use of public transit only. the reason is that there are so many tourists and so many locals shopping and touring in the city that the traffic literally comes to a stop. It can take 10 or 15 minutes to go one block - and walking is much faster than driving.

The midtown area especially is mobbed with both foot and vehicular traffic - and a car tour is likely to be very frustrating unless done in the early am (before 7 am). I have seen the traffic driving down Fifth Ave past Rock Center and St Pats' so clogged at 11 pm at night that the police closed the street - and would allow no more cars into the area.

topping

cpg:

Yes, we'll MAKE time to try Grom in addition to il laboratorio del gelato. The Marron Glace and your recommended cioccolato extranoir from Grom and the Thai Chili Chocolate from ildg will be THE flavors for me!

cherrybomb::

You are one heck of a planner. Thank you for making sense of my wish list of things to do. We want to spend at least 3 - 4 hours at the MET, and then come back another day. While my two teens love museums, it's not a good idea to have them reach their saturation point so early on the trip.

The plan is to see one museum/day to break it up. We'll spend about another 3 hours at the MOMA (museum #2) - with a break at The Modern.

Then the Frick would be another day. Unfortunately, we're running out of days. I'm afraid we won't have time for the Guggenheim. It's either just pop in and see both of these, or just go to one, and I'm more inclined towards going to the Frick. Does that make any sense?

nytraveler,

Thanks for the heads up about the gridlock alert days. Now having seconds thoughts about the car tour - more so because it costs so much. I was really looking forward to this car tour. No navigating to do, no parking problems, no grumpy and bewildered husband, sigh.

Nutcracker tickets not on sale till Sept. 28 or so. Bummer!

One last question: looking at my revised list, is there anything we're forgetting that you highly recommend we do, and if necessary, what should we drop from the list? Chinatown? WTC? Guggenheim? We haven't bought our Knicks tickets for Dec. 25 yet - we can probably do the Central Park/Strawberry Fields, etc. on Christmas Day if we don't go to the game. The money saved (that's a lot of $$$) would go towards more fine meals!!!!!!!

Thanks again!

The NYCB's Nutcracker is gorgeous and tix do go on sale 9/28.

As far as the Knicks, it's hard to say. How much do your kids love bb? If they love it, it's exciting to go to the Garden. But it is expensive, for sure.

Another thing that I thought of is the John Lennon exhibit at the R & R Hall of Fame Annex. I haven't seen it myself, but surely someone on Fodors has. It is expensive, the tix are timed and it's scheduled to close before you come. BUT, it's already been extended once for three months and I'm told that it's a possibility that it will be extended again. You need to check their website as you get closer. But get some reviews on Fodors first.

Well I would do the Museum of Natural History rather than the Guggenheim (often more notable for the building than the exhibits). The former has a great dino section, a wonderful gallery of gems and minerals (love those giant diamonds) and a great exhibit on human evolution. Also there are a number of different IMAX movies on a rotating basis as well as the Planetarium. They also have a fantastic origami Christmas tree - and are right near Zabar's gourmet as well as a bunch of good inexpensive restaurants.

this is an absolute favorite in NYC - with kids from toddler up to adults.

Also, it's good to have some indoor alternatives available in case of bad weather.

I just thought of 2 things to add to your list for the kids "east village", is a "trip" in itself. If you head down toward New York University and find St. Mark's Place, there are lots of interesting shops and restaurants and lots of college age, although many will be home for the holidays, lots more will be visiting, lol.

From St. Marks Place, there are 2 stops, POMME FRITTE, which is on 2nd Ave just south of St. Marks, and has the most divine fries and sauces, the kids will be talking about that place for a long time.

Also one of the BEST pastery shops in the city is VENIERO'S on 2nd Ave and 11th St. You will gain a few pounds just walking in, but the kids will love this place too, and you can order a few extra to take back to your hotel room for munching later. This is where alot of the restaurants in town get their pasteries from. As you walk in there is a LONG>>>>>> case of goodies so you can drool, while you wait in line. lol.

I just went back and looked at your schedule and am mixing with my groupings of what you wanted to do, perhaps this will help so you don't feel you are running out of days:

Dec. 22
8:30 – 2:30 – Taking private tour with driver/tour guide. It’s a stay-in-the-car-and-make-quick-stops type of tour. We can stop, take pictures, shop, eat (but the meter is running so we can’t nosh all day). The tour guide can pretty much do a customized tour based on what we’d like to see. Please reconsider this and do this instead: Fifth Avenue
Christmas Store Displays - Saks @50th, Takashimaya, Bendels, Bergdorf @56th-57th, Tiffany is across the street from Bergdorf,
Rockefeller Center - on 5th Avenue @ b/t 49th-50th (you can skip this—I added it later)
St. Patrick’s - on 5th Avenue @51st
Stop at MOMA on 53rd b/t 5th-6th Aves
You could start at Grand Central Terminal and do a walk up Fifth Ave, pop into MOMA, have lunch that the Bar Room at The Modern, then continue up 5th Ave checking out the shops and finish at the base of Central Park.

2:30 - ? We’re thinking maybe one of the museums, or maybe the Empire State Bldg?
It’s our 21st wedding anniversary and would like your recommendations on extra-special restaurants for dinner. Budget of $100/person, can be a little more if we can drop off the kids at the hotel where they can rest and order room service. you have your museum built in above, send your kids to the Empire state – it is safe for kids that age and I’m sure you all have cell phones, go have a cocktail together while the kids stand in line forever. Again, I would suggest the rainbow Room, then go off and have dinner while the kids go have room service. You can also ask your hotel concierge for take out menus or if you have a laptop with you, use menupages.com to order food for the kids from a nearby restaurant – the latter will be cheaper and provide them with more options.

Dec. 23
8 am – 5 pm. Open. Maybe a museum, Grand Central Terminal, Rockefeller Center? Go to the Met, if you are not museumed out, you could take a walk and go up to the Museum of the City on 103rd Street. It’s small, and I think underrated. The walk up is along Central Park on one side and with rich people mansions on the other – yes I did just say rich people mansions. Alternately, you could walk through the park to the west side for the Dakota, Strawberry Fields, etc. You could also start on the west side and make your way to the Met.
5 pm – 7:15 pm I read another thread regarding restaurant recommendations before watching Billy Eliott and on my list are: Scarlatto’s, Viceversa, Saju Bistro, Pomaire. What do you think also of West Bank Café and Etcetera Etcetera?
8 pm – Billy Eliott at Imperial Theatre Will leave this to others, or check out the Koreatown restaurants nearby if you do not want to do this in my suggestion below. Actually this might work better here as you will be close to Macy’s then can jump a train up 1 stop to the theater, Alternately, you could check out the Macy’s windows after the play, it will be a bit less hectic. Again, just jump a train down there.

Dec. 24
8 am – noon. Breakfast, then The Frick or the Museum of Arts and Crafts
Any suggestions on places to eat before the
2:00 pm Radio City Music Hall show
4 pm – 7:00 pm Open Cannot think of anything for lunch at the moment off the top of my head, after the Radio City Show, this would be a good time to check out Rockefeller Center, skating and such. You could also go to Top of the Rock or my beating a dead horse suggestion of Rainbow room for a 5:30 or 6pm cocktail.
8 pm – dinner hosted by family

Dec. 25
Morning is open. We’re thinking of attending mass at St. Patrick’s. Mass will be extremely crowded – just a heads up.
12 noon – New York Knicks/Miami Heat (Note: not yet final, because not sure if we’re doing this. 15 yr. old son really wants to go.)
5 pm. Dinner hosted by relatives.

Dec. 26.
8 am – Statue of Liberty/Ellis Island/ got reservations for Crown Access
What is a realistic time for this morning activity? (no clue – I think you should be done by noon)
Afternoon – Lunch in Chinatown, alternately you could keep walking up a few blocks into Nolita/Little Italy to Lombardi’s for pizza, there will more than likely be a line though. Wander a bit through Nolita and start heading east to the lower east side. You could go to the Tenement Museum-this can be a short trip stop – look at their website, and then up the block to il Laboratorio for gelato. If you still have time, start heading north into the east village. If you want to take a break, get on the M14 or M9 bus at Essex street get off at say 7th Street – where you will be at Tompkins Sq. Park. You can start heading back west via 7th or 9th Streets (if you want to check out some of the smaller shops), or St. Marks if you want the trinket-junk-shop-was-once-punk-rock route.

8 pm - Hair at Al Hirschfield Theatre
Any recommendations for pre-theatre dinner in the area? You could go to Koreatown in the mid-30s b/t Madison and 6th Aves for dinner. There are a ton of places that will be easy on the wallet. I’d skip eating in Chinatown though if you are going to do this, and I would consider eating after the theater. You probably will have a late lunch this day anyhow, and with the stop for gelato, or perhaps another snack downtown, you could hold off. Note: this is a Saturday, some old school places will be closed for Sabbath, though there is plenty that will be open. I’d suggest a wander through Soho, but it is the Saturday after x-mas and I would not wish of mighty hell of wandering through the hoards of people on you.

Dec. 27
Morning – open Sleep in? You have been out the door at 8am and running around for a week!! If you left at 10am you will get to your tour on time. If that isn’t an option, you could head down to the village and have breakfast prior to the tour.
11 am – 2 pm Greenwich Village Food Tour
We’re exploring the Village the rest of the afternoon. Is there any nice place here you can recommend for our final dinner in NYC, or we can head back to the hotel if there are places you can recommend in the Park Ave/61st vicinity? Your west village day is set here, no need to worry about fitting that in. Does the place have to be fancy on your last night? If not, since you are already in the west village, I would recommend Cabrito on Carmine and Bedford right of the train stop at West 4th. Yes, it is casual, but it is semi hip and fun and the food is excellent. Food is inexpensive-moderate, cocktails are on the pricier side. Frank Bruni rates it high. I rate it high.

Dec. 28
All day – open. You will want to go somewhere that you missed I would guess. WTC is not worth a trek – really, there is nothing to see other than a hole in the ground and a crane or 2. If you have not yet gone down and checked out the Tenement Museum and LES, I highly recommend it along with one of the tours – either walking tour or one of apartment tours, or frankly both. They can be booked in advance and should be. The New Museum is also small and, um, new and hosts modern work. It is on Bowery, at the border of the LES. Alternately the Museum of Natural History is a good suggestion, though I would guess that you will be pretty museumed out by this point and it is quite large.
8 pm – Flight home (La Guardia).
We’re checking out before we head out in the morning and will just be back to collect our bags before taking a cab to La Guardia. Considering the traffic at this time of the day, when should we plan on leaving the hotel to make it to the airport in time?

Hope this is helpful.

HI CB, wow, you are well organized.

I just wanted to add one thing, if at all possible, get out EARLY in the AM to see the windows on 5th Ave. I try to walk up to work from GCT to see them each year. When I do, I'm walking up around 7:30 AM and there are no crowds and you can really enjoy looking at the windows and the tree without people breathing down your neck.

We ended up w/friends one year walking through Rock Plaza before a matinee, it is insane, you cannot even move, which can make it a little scary if you are even the slightest bit claustrophobic.

The other nice thing around NY at Christmas is the outdoor markets, there's one at GCT, in Bryant Park, Columbus Circle, Union Square (I'm sure there's others, but that's all I could think of), they have unusual crafts and are fun to poke around in. Also at Bryant Park, there is free ice skating (you need to rent skates if you don't have them). This is also a fun people watching or skating experience if you'd like.

CPG, my step-son and his wife saw the John Lennon exhibit, said it was fantastic, been trying to get there myself.

Otherwise, all looks great!

Owlwoman has some better suggestions than me here: The other nice thing around NY at Christmas is the outdoor markets, there's one at GCT, in Bryant Park, Columbus Circle, Union Square (I'm sure there's others, but that's all I could think of), they have unusual crafts and are fun to poke around in. Also at Bryant Park, there is free ice skating (you need to rent skates if you don't have them). This is also a fun people watching or skating experience if you'd like.

You could work it in here as the walk from Grand Central will take you down 42nd Street past Bryant Park and the Library-I would switch your schedule to start uptown at the windows and work your way down. You can catch a train down to 42nd at 50th-53rd if you want to take a break from walking:
Dec. 22
8:30 – 2:30 – Taking private tour with driver/tour guide. It’s a stay-in-the-car-and-make-quick-stops type of tour. We can stop, take pictures, shop, eat (but the meter is running so we can’t nosh all day). The tour guide can pretty much do a customized tour based on what we’d like to see. Please reconsider this and do this instead: Fifth Avenue
Christmas Store Displays - Saks @50th, Takashimaya, Bendels, Bergdorf @56th-57th, Tiffany is across the street from Bergdorf,
Rockefeller Center - on 5th Avenue @ b/t 49th-50th (you can skip this—I added it later)
St. Patrick’s - on 5th Avenue @51st
Stop at MOMA on 53rd b/t 5th-6th Aves
You could start at Grand Central Terminal and do a walk up Fifth Ave, pop into MOMA, have lunch that the Bar Room at The Modern, then continue up 5th Ave checking out the shops and finish at the base of Central Park.

Also, On the West village day, you asked what to do prior--you could stop at Union Square on the way downtown in the morning....
++++
I had forgotten about Bryant Park. See, I'm not so organized, just going off the OPs list and grouping. You should see my vacations - I kinda don't plan any thing other than the offhanded "at some point I want to go over around x or something, let's go get a glass of wine while we mull it over." Really, I'm just procrastinating on work stuff at the moment.

There are also several skating rinks in the city, you might want to try, Bryant Park 6th and 42nd St, Rock Center- 50th and 5th and The Museum of Natural History (new) at 79th and Central Park West. Maybe the kids would like to head out to skate one nite while you head out to dinner.

Don't forget the Wollman Rink in Central Park.

My biggest memory of the ESB are the lines and elevators-several of them. You can purchase tickets on line--that should save you at least two elevator rides and one line wait. Since you're doing the express, you might even want to purchase the skyride for the kids.

Sigh, I can't thank all of you enough for ALL the advice/tips you've given for our trip.

You're right, maybe we should just skip the car tour and do that on some other future trip (as long as it's not the Christmas season). The money that we'll save (it's $150/hr, approx 6 hours is what the agent told me) will be better spent on more fine meals and a souvenir or two.

cpg,
The 15 yr. old boy is more into basketball than the 17 yr old girl, but there's no way that she'll sit out and not do this too. It's looking more like likely that we'll go. It's about building memories. My daughter is now a senior and soon she'll be too busy living her own life. And my husband and I have never been to the Garden, that's something to look forward to!

nytraveler:
You mentioned the magic word: ZABAR'S! I've always wanted to go there. Now we'll simply have to include that on our list.

travelbuff:
Well now, we'll need to try those Pommes Frites. And Veniero's would be an excellent place (if the timing is right) to buy a sweet hostess gift for our Christmas Eve dinner with my inlaws.

paging cherrybomb: (who is now our official travel planner)

- is it possible to incorporate pommes frites and pastries into our schedule? Let's say we skip the car tour 12/22, and we go to the Knicks game 12/25.

And I am LOVING how much you are helping us out here. Thank you so much!

And yes, kids have phones, so hubby and I will go check out the Rainbow Room! That sounds so special.......

Ok, we'll sleep-in a little on 12/27 but would still like to get to the Village with enough time to explore a little bit before we go on our 11 am food tour. Maybe a light breakfast or something, because we'll be noshing for the next 3 hours as we do the food tour.

Owlwoman:
Love the idea of the outdoor market. Maybe we can check out the one by GCT.

offlady:
Yes, kids can do the SkyRide (I've read mixed reviews about it but the kids will still have fun.) Just means more time at the Rainbow Room for us.
Here's a duh question: Will the Express Pass also include the observatory ticket or is that separate?

Other matters:

If St. Pat's is going to be too crowded 12/25, is there a nice church in the area where we can attend mass? We're still going to check out St. Pat's on 12/22 per cherrybomb's route.
If the John Lennon exhibit is extended, we'd like to see that.

Regarding restaurants, I'm still hoping to have time for Eleven Madison.

Skipping the Guggenheim this trip. If there's time, we're hoping to go to the Tenement Museum.

Just found out that I can't make any reservations for Per Se just yet. I have to wait till two months before the dinner date. Was delighted to see (opentable.com) that Per Se and Eleven Madison are up there for Best Overall, Best Ambiance, and Best Service. Bummer: also still too early for Eleven Madison.

Thanks so much, everyone!!!

And Veniero's would be an excellent place (if the timing is right) to buy a sweet hostess gift for our Christmas Eve dinner with my inlaws.

The assorted minatures, your choice, are always a hit. Also the ricotta or NY cheeseckae go over well. You will also have to wait on a separate line for the bakery as oppsoed to the cafe. The take-out bakery is insane at the best of times and the line could easily be an hour on Christmas Eve.

N.B.

The cafe at Veniero's is closed the day before and on Thanksgiving and I think on Christmas Eve. The line for the bakery is directed through the cafe to make it more orderly. I am not sure about Christmas Eve, but I would go to the cafe at another time, any way.

New subject
Many restaurants are closed Christmas Eve and Day. It is NY tradition to go to a Chinese restaurant or a Jewish deli at those times. And now it is expanding to inlcude Thai, Mideastern, and Indian.

Just a comment about Opentable which I use extensively. Some upscale restaurants restrict booking prime dining times online. For example, you may be able to book 6 pm or earlier and 9 pm or later. Also, I was told by an upscale restaurant in SF that I was better off making the reservations over the phone, that I actually could do it a day earlier. Bottom line, for special restaurants that are difficult to get into, I would call the restaurant directly, tell them the day you're interested in and ask them what is the earliest day that they will accept a reservation. Ask them about Opentable too. And ask them what time (NY time) they start answering the phones on that day. Some start at 10, some 11, etc.

If you get to the Garden, look for Spike Lee, Woody Allen, and other celebs courtside.

Hi owlwoman! Isn't the holiday market indoors in Grand Central?

OMG! At 150/hr for 6 hours your are not only torturing your self, but being robbed! SKIP THE CAR TOUR!!!!! Ride the city bus around randomly if you want to see stuff and get on and off - that will cost you $2.50 or less depending on the metrocard you get. Good that you are checking out the Rainbow Room - I am actually going this weekend with my parents who are in town visiting. My dad turned me onto it as he likes a view, but doesn't like "jacking around in lines," he also likes any opportunity to have a cocktail. I am clearly my father's daughter.

Back to your question - yes you can fit in Pomme Frites and Veniero's here:
Dec. 26.
8 am – Statue of Liberty/Ellis Island/ got reservations for Crown Access
What is a realistic time for this morning activity? (no clue – I think you should be done by noon)
Afternoon – Lunch in Chinatown, alternately you could keep walking up a few blocks into Nolita/Little Italy to Lombardi’s for pizza, there will more than likely be a line though. Wander a bit through Nolita and start heading east to the lower east side. You could go to the Tenement Museum-this can be a short trip stop – look at their website, and then up the block to il Laboratorio for gelato. If you still have time, start heading north into the east village. If you want to take a break, get on the M14 or M9 bus at Essex street get off at say 7th Street – where you will be at Tompkins Sq. Park. You can start heading back west via 7th or 9th Streets (if you want to check out some of the smaller shops), or St. Marks if you want the trinket-junk-shop-was-once-punk-rock route.
++++++
Move you LES day to the end and skip it here, though you could really do both, it just seems like a waste on a Saturday when some places will be closed such as Kossar's Bialys and such. Instead you can start with the initial suggestion: Lunch in Chinatown, alternately you could keep walking up a few blocks into Nolita/Little Italy to Lombardi’s for pizza, there will more than likely be a line though. Wander a bit through Nolita and either get on the 6 train and get off at Astor Place or just keep walking east until you get to Essex and get on the M14 or M9 bus going uptown. Again get off at 7th Street/Tompkins square Park. Wander around a bit (you can use the same streets mentioned above) to work up some hunger and stop at Pomme Frites which is located on 2nd Ave b/t St Marks and 7th Street. Then head north up to 11th Street, Venieros is on 11th b/t 2nd and 1st Aves, closer to 1st Ave. There is an Urban Outfitters on 2nd and 10th, if your kids are into that. Again, you will have snacked all day and might want to do dinner after the theater. I'd suggest an early dinner down there at say Frank or Lil' Frankies, but think you might be full from the frites and sweets.

Also, when you go to the LES, if your son is into sneakers, Alife on Rivington b/t Clinton and Suffolk has a huge selection of limited edition styles, they also now have another space across the street that is sponsored with Nike that is used as a gallery and annex for rotating art and shoes. They just closed their graffiti art installation and are prepping the space for a new installation at the moment. The installations tend to change ~every 2 months or so.


Hope this helps.

Oh, forgot, when you go to the LES, check out Essex Market. They have done some renovations in the past 2 years and are worth a pop in. www.essexstreetmarket.com. Also Russ and Daughters on Houston and Allen

There are some food shops on Grand and Broome streets that are worth a look at as well when you are doing your walk on the 26th - of course names escape me off the top of my head, but Aduchamp can fill in if he sees this before I go and look.

Here is the entire list. I have not been to about half in the last six months, but I still go to most of them on a regular basis.

These are most of my favorite food stores. This is as highly subjective and geographically limited list you will find. The majority of stores are below 14th Street.
Stars indicate that either I went there at night or they are better than the others on the list. There are scores of excellent places that are not on the list, so exclusion is not necessarily condemnation but it could be.
Tourists can use this to put together their own food tour, buy stuff during the day for a feast in your hotel room at night or for gifts. One time we were flying back from Milan and we purchased a cake there and shared it with family when we landed.


Bagels and Bialys
Just because it is round, does not make it a bagel. There is a lot of crap being sold. A bagel must be boiled before it is baked. The ones with pimples on the bottom, like those you get at the sidewalk carts, are steamed. The ones you get at Dunkin Donuts are white bread in a circle, Rachel Ray.

*Ess-A-Bagel
Various Locations
My personal favorite. There are Ess-a-bagel people and the H & H people. Ess-a bagels are yeasty while H & H are sweet because they add sugar. Ess-a Bagel is a bit of a play on words and means eat in Yiddish. The stores are crazy busy and there is a wide variety of spreads. Once mammoth, the bagels are smaller recently.

H & H Bagels
Various locations but the one Second Avenue is not related and is plain awful
As discussed above with long lines. An Upper West Side institution.

*Kossar’s Bialys (Established 1935)
367 Grand Street
What is a bialy? Originally from Bailystok, Poland and called Bialystoker Kuchen (cake). And yes, Mel Brooks stole the name for Max Bialystock. It is most and doughy, much like the perfect pizza crust but with an indentation in the middle for either bits of garlic or onion. Try their bulkas which are bialy dough in the shape of a hero or an onion wheel also called a pletzel. An onion wheel is round and thin covered with duh onions, or the other version poppy seeds. Toast it, butter it, and keel over dead.

*Murray’s
Various Locations
Murray’s knows how to make bagels, chewy and large. The lines usually move quickly.

Bakeries
Amy’s Bread
Various Locations
The breads are well prepared and my favorite is the black sesame. I have never seen the same kid behind the counter twice, thus the staff is not knowledgeable and some seem confused by an order.

*Balthazar
80 Spring Street
I guess they could have made the space smaller, but then only your hand would fit through the door. Unlike the restaurant, the bakery deserves the praise for their baguettes and croissants.

Birdbath
223 First Avenue
Yes, it is a stupid name and the place has all the charm of a company store at a gulag but it is a sister to City Bakery. They make fabulous almost everything including a pretzel croissant. They only offer about 10% of what can be had at the City Bakery and there is no place to sit and eat. Stay away from a new creation a vegan banana sesame thing with agave. Besides having no taste, it dryly crumbs in your mouth. A rare mistake for Maury Rubin. The staff here and at City Bakery has not been told that space program was discontinued.

Blackhound
170 Second Ave
Very expensive but good as a dessert gift. The cookies are delicious and everything looks tempting some things are not as good as they look.

*Blue Ribbon Market
14 Bedford Street
There is not a bad bread in the house. They are made across the street at Blue Ribbon Bakery, where you can see the ovens on the basement. (They also have a interesting bathroom.)
Pick anything.

*Bouley Bakery
130 W. Broadway
Every time I go there I try something different. My current favorite is the saffron bread. It is so delicate you can taste the saffron. Everything is outrageously expensive you can either pay your student loan or buy a slice of cake.

*Clinton Street Bakery
4 Clinton Street
Not only is this bakery but a great place for brunch which is impossible to enter on weekends. They may make the best biscuits in town followed closely by their scones.

*City Bakery
3 West 18th Street
Try the hot chocolate melted from chocolate bars or the pretzel croissants or the baker’s muffins or anything laid out on the counter. Extremely crowded at breakfast and lunch. Celebrities have been spotted but unless they are disguised as spoon I have not seen any.

DeRobertis (Established 1904)
176 First Avenue
It has the original tin ceiling and tiled walls and floors. Be selective in what you order, order nothing chocolate but the lobster tails, cannoli, and pignoli cookies are good and they are known for their lemon and orange things. (I am sure it has a real name) They hollow out the fruit, then fill it with a sorbet and freeze the whole thing including a peel lid.

*Donut Plant
379 Grand Street
I do not know what they do but the donuts taste so much better than just about any other place. He also makes excellent churros. The valrhona chocolate is a monument to gluttony. Small storefront with bakery in back.

Eileen’s Cheesecake
17 Cleveland Place
That’s all she makes so she better make them well. Not the best but very good.

*Falai Paneterria
79 Clinton Street
Former pastry chef turns out the most delectable and eclectic breads such as pumpkin or fennel. The croissants are excellent. I guess his mother told him not to waste his education so he also makes fabulous pastries. Never leave without a bombolini, an Italian donut/fritter filled with either jelly or crème.

Fat Witch Brownies
Chelsea Market
They make the fudgy type and they have a few variations. Staff is pleasant but sloooow. They have tourist buses that stop at Chelsea Market, so the lines may be long at times.

*Financier
Various locations
In the food wasteland that is Wall Street, Financier knows how to make cakes and croissants. They are often crowded but the staff doesn’t know ganache or panache.

Junior’s
Various locations
Stick to the cheesecake and the rolls.

*La Bergamonte
169 Ninth Avenue
For many years this was in the middle of food nowhere. Now with the Chelsea Market and the fattening of the Meatpacking district is getting its due. Extremely fine croissants and pastries and a place to sit

Le Pain Quotidien
Various locations
A chain from Belgian which makes it Belch. The baguettes are wonderful as are the brownies and raisin whole grain bread. This is probably the best food of any chain. The staff however, is laconic and unknowledgeable and very often there are out of many of the popular items. Nice brunches.

*Little Pie Company
Various locations
Their sour cream apple walnut pie is akin to crack cocaine but only a little cheaper. The other pies are good but not in the same category. People start lining up for Thanksgiving on 4th of July, so order in advance.

Patisserie Claude
187 West Fourth Street
Patisserie Claude has been selling pastries to Pig Warren for a long time. We do not go often by when we do we are rewarded.

*S & S Cheesecake
222 W 238 St, Bronx
Could be the best cheesecake in the city, creamy but not dense, perfect,

Steve’s Authentic Key Lime Pies
204-207 Van Dyke Street, Red Hook
This is place is hard to find when you are standing in front it. Fortunately the silky pies can be found at Citarella and other self-defined fine stores.

*Sullivan Street Bakery
533 W 47th Street
You have probably eaten there breads many times and didn’t know it. It is offered in scores of restaurants and markets. You can identify many of the breads by sight. They are brown and crusty will the inside is light and airy. A paradigm for carbs.

*Veniero’s
342 East 11th Street
Established in 1894 some of those people are still waiting on line. I love this place, the best inexpensive tiramisu, addictive ricotta cheesecake, moist pignoli cookies, there are scores of offerings and no losers. The take out staff is never the same and the lines are long for the café. For Thanksgiving and Christmas, the café is turned to a waiting room for take out. They use an old fashioned machine to wrap the string around the box, while quaint, adds to the interminable line. You can also call in an order.

N.B. You can take your cupcake fight outside. We have tried many but a winner has yet to be named.

Candy and Chocolates

*Economy Candy (Established 1934)
108 Rivington Street
I am not sure they make anything on premises but they do have every candy still in production at very good prices. If you are a fan of candy stores, you will want to be buried here.

Evelyn’s Hand Dipped Chocolates
4 John Street
The best value for hand made chocolate in NY. It is clearly not the best, but most candy is made by hand and Evelyn can be seen slipping in and out from behind the counter. The cost is a fraction of the top notch candy stores. This is the type of place you find in a quaint town with quaint people. This 9/11 survivor should be supported.

*Jacques Torres Chocolates
Various Locations
For some reason people know the Brooklyn location better than the one on Hudson Street. Their truffles are exquisite as are all the chocolates and the hot chocolate. The lines are extraordinary on Valentine’s Day.

*Kee’s
80 Thompson Street
Kee was a banker or a lawyer before she started making the best truffles in NYC. Some are Asian influenced each variety is better than the next. This is a must stop for chocolate cuckoos.

*Teuscher
Various locations
Truffles are flown in from Switzerland. I once bought some for a chocolate loving friend who about to get married. While eating the truffles, this modest woman was made sounds that are usually reserved for her husband. Although she was completely embarrassed, I knew I bought the right gift.

There are many chocolate stores in midtown that make exceptional products but I have not enough experience to add them to the list. These include Richart, Maison du Cholat, and Pierre Marcolini. Just turn your pockets inside out for a taste.

Cheese
Alleva Diary (Established 1892)
188 Grand Street
Not as good as its neighbor DiPalo but extremely offers a fine selection of Italian cheeses.

*DiPalo Dairy (Established 1925)
200 Grand Street
One of NY’s great stores. Not only are the cheeses spectacular but sell perfect prosciutto. Their selections are impeccable. If at all possible avoid the weekend crowds, even though they have adults behind the counter.

East Village Cheese
140 Third Avenue
His cheese must fall off the truck to charge the lowest prices in the city. There is always some $2.99 per pound special. For that price you will not get the best, but at least you will be filled. The staff has become nicer over the years but not much. Cash only.

*Formaggio Essex
Essex Market on Essex Steet.
That should be enough Essexes. This is a tiny outlet from a Boston company. The cheeses are excellent but they have to vats where you take a bottle and fill it with a vinegar sherry or olive oil and both are redolent and extremely flavorful. There is some rules about deposits but I am not good at rules. The Essex market is a poured concrete structure with many stalls selling veggies and Hispanic staples with a barber shop in the back. Do not be deterred that it looks like pig farm from the outside.

*Joe’s Dairy (Established 1925)
156 Sullivan Street.
If you do not like Joe’s you do not like New York. They have been making mozzarella for over 80 years and the smoked version is addictive. The store is tiny, tiny, tiny and the staff is family and know their stuff and the neighborhood. One time I bought my mother-in-law a smoked mozzarella here. The next time I saw her she said she cut off the outside because she thought the outside was burned.

*Murray’s Cheeese
254 Bleecker Street and another in Grand Central
Best in show. They carefully choose only the finest quality of every variety. The staff is cheesemongers, one is even a gossip monger. The ricotta cheese cake is worth going to jail. This is a must visit for anyone who has the slightest interest in cheese.

*Russo’s Mozzarella (Established 1908)
344 East 11th Street
Cleverly they make fresh and smoked mozzarella which are excellent but they also make pastas, sauces, and there own olive varieties. Cramped but the guys know what they are doing.

Ice Cream

*Cones
272 Bleecker Street
In 1986 an Israeli newspaper sent a reporter to cover the NY Mets in the World Series because they heard there was a David Cone. He isn’t related to this place either. Sweet creamy, fresh ingredients with many varieties. Many tourists happen upon it when eating at John’s Pizzeria.

*Chinatown Ice Cream Factory
65 Bayard Street
Store made ice cream which for wimps offers vanilla and chocolate since they also serve flavors like green tea, lichee nut, and my favorite almond cookie. The kids behind the counter are always nice. There is no better way to end a meal in Chinatown. Inexpensive but cash only.

*Il Laboratorio de Gelato
95 Orchard Street
Everybody claims their gelati is the same as in Italy, blah, blah, blah. Their gelati is like Italy. It is the type you eat four times a day as you walk around Rome or Florence before you realize you have ruined your appetite for dinner. Expensive and cash only.

Sundaes and Cones
95 East 10th Street
They have nothing to do with just Cones and is a shade below, But if you are in the neighborhood, the store made ice cream is creamy and offer interesting flavors.

Grom
Various locations
Italian gelati chain, now in NYC, but the stuff is expensive.

Knishes

Yonah Schimmel (Established 1890)
137 East Houston Street
Yonah has been dead for a long time and they have not redecorated or cleaned the windows since. If they made great knishes the owners could be considered knish savants but they are not. The knishes you buy at sidewalk carts, however, are shaped like third base, taste worse, are fried and often a green patina inside. Yonah Schimmel’s, you always have to say both names when referring to the store, still makes the baked variety and may or may not have the all types on hand.

Kitchen Supplies

* Broadway Panhandler
65 East 8th Street
They finally moved closer to Broadway. This is good for the semi-serious chef. There is an excellent selection of knives and pans but half the store is dedicated to stuff you use once or cutsey-poo crap.

New York Cake and Baking Distributor
56 W 22
Has what every serious amateur and professional baker needs, flour, pans, cookie cutters, etc. The quarters are Spartan and the staff acts like they just found a cure for cancer.

My favorite store Bridge Cookware has left NYC for the wilds of New Jersey.

Food Markets
Unless otherwise noted these places are expensive or very expensive.

Agatha and Valentina
A large department features hard-core Italian cold cuts like soppressata and hot or sweet cappicola, while the cheese department sports a huge number of offerings and loads of free samples. The prepared foods section also has a thick Italian accent and is among the more interesting in the city.

*Citarella
Various Locations
One of the best spots for fish from standard stuff with gills to razor clams. Knowledgeable fishmongers. Same is true for meats. Their prepared foods are universally good with outstanding soups. The collect bread and cakes from various but good places.

Dean and Deluca
Various Locations
The original food museum. The fruit is laid out to be admired, as are the cheeses, breads, and cakes. The main location on Broadway always a line at the espresso bar. Prices are highrt than buying a stale bagel at the airport.

*Eli’s
*Eli’s Vinegar Factory
Various locations
Eli had a fight with his family at Zabar’s and opened up a much more expensive food market. When you look at the prices, you think you are in a foreign country and miscalculated the exchange rate. On the other hand, every thing here is outstanding.

*Fairway
Various locations
Cheaper than the others
The fruits and veggies are outstanding as are the meats, fish, and store made breads. They also carry reasonably priced groceries. The Brooklyn store has food counters with an outdoor eating area with a view of the Statue of Liberty. But the food choices are not for the huddled masses yearning to breathe free.

Grace’s Marketplace
She is the daughter of old man Balducci, who was such a difficult character, she opened her own place. Physically it resembles the long gone Balducci’s on 6th Ave, but retained the good qualities such as the prepared meats and excellent meat, fish, and produce selections.

Manhattan Fruit Exchange
Chelsea Market
Best veggie value in town. Crowded, crowded, crowded. Cash only

*Russ and Daughters (Established 1914)
179 East Houston Street
A new generation has taken over with the same pride and dedication to smoked fish as their aunts, uncles, and grandparents. Sable, white fish, lox, gravlax, it does not matter they are all mouth watering. Try the chopped liver, it is full flavor.

*Zabar’s (Established 1931)
2245 Broadway
Another NY institution with a well deserved reputation. The prices are cheaper than almost those above but the quality is the same or better. Large cheese selection, fantastic prepared foods, the claim to sell more coffee than anyone in NYC, store made knishes, breads and cakes from the best purveyors, Zabar’s brand spices and olive oil (this is known as one of the best buys anywhere.). The lox slicers reportedly make $85,000 a year. And upstairs is a cookware section. The staff is wonderful but the clientele is often obnoxious and aggressive. Sharpen your elbows and fight for the tri-colored pate.


Meats
*East Village Meat Market
139 Second Avenue
It helps if you speak Polish but you can get by in English. Old fashioned butcher shop where every thing is cut upon request. They also make great, great kielbasa and in many shapes and types and smoked hams. Relatively inexpensive.

*Faicco’s (Established 1900)
260 Bleecker Street
They make their flavorful sausage, rice balls, sauces. You get the old schmooze from the guys behind the counter as well. If you like old fashioned Italian butchers who know what they are doing, this is the joint.

Pasta

*Raffetto’s (Established 1906)
144 W. Houston Street
They cut fresh pasta from sheets to your specification in front of you on a machine that looked obsolete 50 years ago. Not a gimmick just the freshest, tastiest pasta yet. They have many types including saffron. Cash only.

Pickles

*Gus’s
49 Essex Street
The model for Crossing Delancy. They having produced perfect pickles and peppers for almost 100 years and have been on the same block as The Tenement Museum since 2002
A must for any food tour. And usually offer a free pickle.

*The Pickle Guys
49 Essex Street
Some employee defected from Gus’s, the pickles are perfect as is the spiel. They also offer a free pickle. There are barrels and barrels of sour, new, half sour, pickled peppers just calling your name.

Spanish Provisions

Despana
408 Broome Street (Original at 86-17 Northern Blvd. Queens)
Excellent chorizos and morcilla. The are incredibly tasty and are found in many restaurant around town. Their cheeses are also top notch and offer a wide selection. They also offer Serrano ham which is many respects is sweeter and more delicate than porsciutto.

Aduchamp, what a great list. I've copied it for my own future trip to NYC (which isn't even on the planning books yet!)

Our teens liked Top of the Rock, and we enjoyed the gorgeous view of the Empire State Building. The Rock is cool, as in 30 Rock, the wonderful marquee on the street, and great Christmas decs. It's easy to get discount tickets if you google, and not the lines you'll see at ESB.

Have fun on your trip. It sounds wonderful.

Thank you. It took years of buying at bad places to find the good spots.

I knew that list would reemerge, just some notes...

Yonah Schimmel is either closed or has moved, but it is gone as of about 2-3 hair appointments ago, in real people time count (4) + 3 + 4 weeks, or say late June-ish.

Also, The Pickle Guys is open, but The awning for Gus's was gone as of last Friday when I was walking by, it could have been gone longer but I just noticed it then, I don't necessarily pay attention to stuff that I walk by over and over again. But it was 7pm, perhaps they were replacing it - not sure and will investigate further when I walk by tonight.

Donut Plant uses yeast in their donuts which is why they taste different - I don't care for it myself and curse them every time I walk by as I once went there ten years ago at the crack of dawn to get their donuts right off the line and did not like, also spent $20 buying several varieties. The exception is the pumpkin donut which is fine with yeast, it tastes kinda like pumpkin quick-bread. On the plus side I will say their donuts are not overly sugary like other donuts. NB take this for what it is worth as I am not really a sweets/sugar person, the husband is and he did not like either for the aforementioned yeasty-ness - I do know plenty of people who do like them though. Also, they are apparently featured on an episode of the dreadful show "Unwrapped" - that show that shows how processed foods are made, but it is supposed to be enticing, but ends up just grossing me out. The episode either aired last weekend or will air this week - I will look at the sign on the door this evening when I walk by and report back.

East Village Cheese also sells "gourmet" foodstuffs like roasted peppers, italian oil packed jarred tuna, and stuffed grape leaves at a quarter of regular store prices. for instance, their grape leaves are $2.99/lb

Frommagio Essex is excellent and their $50/lb Essex aged gouda is to die for. They also have aged imported sausages, honeys, quince paste and any other thing you need to built a cheese platter for a dinner party. They sell Sullivan Street bread, but it tends to be day old and stale, they will often give it to you for free if you go in later in the day with your purchase.

Falai makes the best cabbage bread. They do brunch too, service is surly for no apparent reason other than the staff thinks they are uber-hip because they work in a bakery, yeah, I know. After 4pm everything is half price.

Balthazar is aces for olive bread and baguettes, if you call your order in advance, you can be in and out in 3-5 minutes as you get to skip line over all the people in just to get a cappuccino.

Clinton Street Bakery does their biscuits in advance on the weekend, then microwaves them prior to serving. It is insult to injury when you have waited on line for 2 hours to get a table. They are best visited on a weekday. Their biscuits are very good when fresh.

Adding North Dumpling to the list - it is on Essex b/t Broome and Hester. It is a hole in the wall, dumplings are cheap and the best that I have had. They are a very light dough, and the filling is heavy with fresh ginger. Steamed dumplings are 8/$1.50, pan fried are 6/$2. They also sell scallion pancake, spring rolls, and a couple other similar things. I have not had the scallion pancake, the spring roll is too greasy and not so good. Also avoid the pan fried dumplings if it is not busy, they get greasy if they have sat around, you want them just fried. They also sell dumplings by the bagful frozen. $5/30 dumplings - you take them home to cook as you wish.

Great list, Adu. Next time I'm going to add the pickles from Crossing Delancey (LOVE that movie).

I'm now on Zabar's email list.

A question for NYers - my friends used to have great frozen scones in their freezer (in packaging like English Muffins) but now don't remember where they got them. Any ideas?

Re Gus's - they moved/planning to move to Brooklyn, you can but also from their LI outlet and online:
http://curbed.com/archives/2009/07/28/fall_of_the_lower_east_side_guss_pickles_moving_to_brooklyn.php

I still cannot figure out Yonah Schimmel - it claims to be open in the same spot, so I called and they are indeed open - no clue why signage is down, I did not ask...

I thought i passed Gus's a few weeks ago. And two weeks ago I stopped at the Pickle Guys. I will check it out next trip down thre.

As far Yonah Schimmel sign being down, it probably fell off the building due to negelct. I will try and pass on the same walk.

Starrs

I love scones but not I am unaware of the frozen variety. Could it be the Portuguese Muffins that look like English muffins or the vaccuum sealed English muffins?

The sign falling down could be it. I always walk by Yonah after their close so it looks totally shuttered without a sign. It is open though as I called. I also called Gus but got no answer. Will investigate later when I walk home. I clearly need to get a life. Or stop procrastinating.

cherrybomb (aka travelmeister),

We WILL skip the car tour then. That pretty much frees up Dec. 22 and we will follow your itinerary. You rock!!!

aduchamp1,

You are THE food guru. Your precious compilation is worth $$$ on eBay. Thank you so much!

Some of those places are familiar, if only because I get their catalogues (I have to wipe the drool off periodically as I peruse them). Zabar's, Balducci's, Murray's Cheese, Dean and DeLuca, Fat Witch Bakery. I once just HAD to try the brownies from Fat Witch, and promptly ordered a dozen. Didn't want to share them with anyone and hid them in the fridge behind some jars.

We'll have to try some of those bialys. I'm sure I'll keel over like you said - I looooove onions!!! Would these keep well so we can take some home?

Question to serious chocoholics:

We like Leonidas and Neuhaus Chocolates, but haven't tried Jacques Torres and Teuscher. How are they different? If you were to treat yourself to a box, where would you go? I'd like to get a huge box to stash in the hotel room to nibble on at the end of the day as we rest our overwhelmed senses and our weary feet. Also, maybe we can get some smaller boxes as presents for people back home. (or NOT, we'll just keep them for ourselves....)

Seeing all the goodies on aduchamp1's list made me seriously think of skipping the Statue of Liberty tour just so I can indulge in some serious munching/food shopping. Sigh.

Oh, and DH will need to hunt for those pickles. He will keel over....

Another question:

For Christmas Day, we only have one thing planned: the Knicks' noon game at the Garden. Is there a really good place you can recommend for Christmas breakfast/brunch before the game? Do the eating places close on the 25th (they do here in our small city) - if so, then maybe we'll just eat in the hotel. We're not planning to eat much after the game because we have a 5 pm dinner hosted by family.

Thanks very much, you guys/gals are the BEST!!!

Many restaurants are closed Christmas Eve and Day. It is NY tradition to go to a Chinese restaurant or a Jewish deli at those times. And now it is expanding to inlcude Thai, Mideastern, and Indian. There are many Koreans restaurants near MSG, but many Korean-Americans are devout Christians so it hard to know what will be open.

Leonidas and Neuhaus are fine, they are just not in the same category of Kee's, Teuscher, and Torres. Kee's and Torres are made on the premises and Teuscher is flown in from Switzerland. Each is far more expensive than Leonida's and Neihaus. I once bought Teuscher truffles for a modest friend who loved chocoalte for her engagement. She made sounds reserved for her new husband, even though she was totally embarrassed she could not stop eating them.

A colleague introduced me to Fat Witch....... wicked? I just sent some to my BIL in exchange for tomatoes. I have a feeling he ate the whole batch at once -
We used to like the Russian Tea Room for holidays... more for decor than food.... but reviews now are not so hot. What about the Sea Grill and Rockefeller Center... with a view of the rink , the tree etc. Not cheap... but the food gets pretty good reviews.

I hardly ever buy chocolates, but I bought small boxes of Jacques Torres chocolates as gifts a couple of years ago - it was so fun - you pick the size box you want (by number of pieces) and then you pick the pieces you want -- you could have 18 different pieces in an 18-piece box! And the box is pretty, too.

For REAL scones, there is a "British" grocery store just north of Jane St, can't remember the name, but it's well known in the west village, and will try and find the name or hey I need to walk tomorrow anyway.

I just wanted to say I think this is one of the BEST THREADS I have ever read on Fodors, so please everyone give yourselves applause on this one, one for the record books.

Oh and another thought how about a quick GTG when these guys are intown? We could meet up at Popover Cafe or I was thinking Chinatown, Venieros would be great but we could never all get in.
Ideas?

I just had a great thought, how about a GTG in the Lobby of the Ace Hotel, on 6th and 29th St. The lobby is large enough and there is a cute bar. Any takers?

travelbuff - I was thinking the same thing. But, it's not always so easy for visitors on vacation with a family and a tight schedule. But, I would do it even if it's mostly locals - maybe after Thanksgiving. Count me in. Seems like it should have it's own thread. What does everyone think?

The English palce is called Myers of Keswick. It is on Hudson Street above Jane. My favroite scones are at Mangia, the buttermilk variety. There are a few Mangias around town.

Could there be 2 because the store I was thinking of is one block west of Hudson and 1 block north of Jane.

Travelbuff-

Could it be Tea and Sympathy?

Although one store that offers Marmite is enough for me.

Am back and eagerly reading your responses. My 15 yr. old son was not feeling too well for the past two days and what do you know, after spending time in the ER, he had an appendectomy yesterday morning. He's back home now and resting, the poor kiddo.

Aduchamp1: one of the NY goodies that I want to try is a good pastrami (and maybe some chopped liver too). Now if there are delis open on Christmas morning, that would be something to look forward to before the Knicks game at noon. Or, if we chance upon a deli as we walk down Fifth Avenue on 12/22, then I may as well seize the chance and get some. Any favorite delis you can recommend?

Gwendolynn: Googled the Sea Grill and drooled over the menu. And yes, the Fat Witch brownies are wicked!!

Regarding chocolates, now I'd like to get myself a beautiful box of the Jacques Torres goodies and also some Teuscher ones to see if I can moan like Meg Ryan.

Travelbuff: A Fodor GTG would be really nice but with the limited time that we have, not sure if it is doable. Maybe at a future trip, I would love to go to your gtg when we no longer have such a long list of things to do and places to see. I'm looking forward to a future trip that includes maybe a Broadway show or two, a museum or two, LOTS of food-related activities, and a drink or two at the Rainbow Room (paging cherrybomb!!!)

I agree wholeheartedly about how this post elicited such a wealth of information from Fodorites eager to share your tips and secret list of food haunts. I can not thank y'all enough!!!

If you want to moan like Meg Ryan in the authentic setting, then go have you pastrami at Katz"s Delicatessen.

By the way, there are delis and there are Delis. Every corner has what is considered a deli with a basic sandwich counter. For quality pastrami, you must seek out a proper Delicatessen like Katz, Second Avenue Deli, Carnegie Deli, or Sarge's. There are a few others, often discussed here. There are sopread out around Manhattan so you should map them and see how a visit to one would fit into you schedule.

There is Katz's and 2nd Avenue and then the others. 2nd Avenue fills up quickly but Katz's is cavernous. The big difference between the two is that the side dishes are more numerous and better at 2nd Avenue.

New Yorkers: Wasn't there a decent deli between Park and Madison on 59th..or 58th Street?
Can't remember the name. If so, it would be convenient to Gelatolover's hotel.


And... I hope El Son will be back on his feet in no time!

This is an amazing thread to read. We hope to someday take our kids to New York, although ours also is not even in the planning stages as yet. All those food sites will come in handy to gelatolover if she is feeding a 15-year-old boy on this trip....

Gelatolover, please do post a trip report after it's all over.

What a great thread! I do hope to make it to NYC during the Christmas season sometime. Thanks to all who have made this a great thread.

New Yorkers: Wasn't there a decent deli between Park and Madison on 59th..or 58th Street?
Can't remember the name. If so, it would be convenient to Gelatolover's hotel.

I do not recall a Jewish Style deli in that neighborhood.

There is however, one of the best bagel places called Ess-A-Bagel (loosely translated Eat a bagel) at Third Ave and 51 St. I assure you have never had a bagel like this. They also have many types of cream cheese and salads to fill a bagel.

The place I'm thinking of had pastrami and all that stuff.. and was well known. Probably gone now..... it was awhile ago that I worked in that neighborhood -

Yes you are right there was a deli on 57th just west of 6th AVe and LONG gone now. Can't remember the name but used to stop there after rehearsals with friends.

For the kids there's a fun restaurant (not memorable food however, but the servers make it alot of fun) Jeckel and Hyde on 6th and 57th St.

This is the first kind word I have ever heard about Jeckel and Hyde. People say the food is disgusting and the bathrooms are worse.

There is a deli on 59th & Park/Madison called Delmonico's. Have never eaten there but recent reviews on menupages.com don't sound good. LA Gourmet on 58th b/w Park & Lex sounds like a better bet although not a traditional deli. http://www.menupages.com/restaurants/la-gourmet/ or Gourmet Park on 60th. http://www.menupages.com/restaurants/gourmet-park/ There's a Le Pain Quotidien on Lexington ave. and also a place called Mon Petit Cafe, both decent for breakfast or light lunch.

I bet it was Delmonico's I was thinking of... but it must have changed hands a lonnng time ago. Burritos? Veggies? I remember an uptown version of a typical Jewish deli.. with the pastrami, the nasty counter men, etc. Burritos?????

Delmonico's was not a Jewish deli.

Yes it was. It was called Kaplans at the Delmonico. I have no idea when it changed hands, but the parents of someone I went to school with (elementary through high school) owned it. And it was darn good.

As for Jekyll & Hyde - I'd rather starve.

CB - sorry to tell you, but The Rainbow Room closed a few months ago. But maybe you know that by now . . . .
Adu - are you thinking of the gourmet store on East 57th St. - the original Sutton Gourmet - it a was a very high-end deli, kind of like an uptown Balducci's, before there was an uptown Balducci's. I was a cashier at the Sutton Theatre, and could barely afford a sandwich there!
There was a Delmonico's up on Park and 58th, too - couldn't afford that, either!

For a very wonderful meal near your hotel, Cafe Bouloud on E. 76th St. or Daniel on 65th and Madison might work well for you.

On Christmas day, you might try a 10AM breakfast of pastrami and eggs at the 2nd Avenue Deli (which is now on 3rd Ave and 33rd St - walking distance to the Garden) 2nd Ave. has some of the best pastrami and corned beef in the NYC. Call and see if they are open on christmas. The Christmas Day Knick game is a great tradition - it's usually a GREAT game - unfortunately, the Knicks will probably not be great again for several more years (or lifetimes). But the game will be fun, anyway. It's a great scene.

As I mentioned on another thread awhile back, the 2nd Ave Deli is opening a branch on the Upper East Side - 75th and 1st Ave. They bought the building that housed the Wicked Wolf. Well, the WW has finally closed and it looks like renovations are coming soon (I hope they leave the old tile floor). I would assume that they will be open by Xmas. Even though it's pretty far east, it's still an opportunity for great deli for visitors to the museums on the UES.

GL - I hope your ds has a speedy recovery!

CP

2nd Avenue Deli was almost a year late in opening the one 33rd and Third.

Adu - the longer it takes to open, the better for me. I don't know how I'll live with that temptation so close!

Was the 3rd Ave location previously a restaurant?

So much helpful information. I am planning an anniversary trip next year. Saving for future reference!

Darling son is resting and doing as well as expected. He's staying home tomorrow and is already dreading the make-up homework that he needs to be doing because of his absence.

ellenem and aduchamp1: OK, a moaning session at Katz's is on the list. After reading everyone's comments about 2nd Avenue Deli, we'll simply have to go there too!!!

mp: You mentioned Sutton Gourmet - brought back memories when we lived in Bethesda, about 17 years ago. I used to go to Sutton Place Gourmet - and had this routine: drool at goodies - look at price - sigh loudly - put back item on shelf/case - repeat. I think I'd like to go with your suggestion of having pastrami and eggs at the 2nd Avenue Deli on Christmas morning before going to see the Knicks. And yes, I will call first to make sure they are open.

5alive: I've never posted a trip report, but I guess there's always a first time.

Thanks again, everyone!!!

Just had a thought, I'm a good tour guide, so I can be of any help when you are here, please let me know, and I'm free, not like the what was it $160hr geez. You would have traveled approximately 3 blocks in an hour with the traffic in the city that week. lol.

Was the 3rd Ave location previously a restaurant?

I am not sure. The young owner either a son or nephew of Abe Lebewohl wanted to buy the entire building so they would not be evicted again.

Originally I thought they took overr the plsce with my favorite store name a pet store called 'Thirty Third and Bird' but they did not.

ellenem and aduchamp1: OK, a moaning session at Katz's is on the list. After reading everyone's comments about 2nd Avenue Deli, we'll simply have to go there too!!!

Do not get table service at Katz'a. Go the the hand cut meat line and put a buck into the tip jar and immediately get a slice of pastrami or whatever you ordered and a thicker sandwich. If we have a kid with us, I always let them slip the guy the buck. It is part of the experience.

<<<Do not get table service at Katz'a>>>

I thought it was a given that the table service at Katz' was only for those who couldn't stand in line [oops, I've lived in California too long, make that "on line"] and carry a tray!

Wow, what an itinerary. We've spent several Christmas holidays in NYC with our teen boys who are now 16 & 18 - Fun!
So just a few tips for the kids.
1) Don't pack hats - buy them on the street. Our boys were very happy about their well worn "bargain" souvenirs. Scarves & gloves also could be in this category.
2) At each museum , see something they like - MOMA/ Industrial Design museum, Metropolitan /Knights & weapons, etc...
3) I agree with the car traffic issues but this also applies to crowd traffic during peak hours at Rockefeller Center, Christmas Windows, & Time Square.
4) The guys loved just walking around in the Meatpacking district & Village after a late dinner - so busy!
5) We did ESB but found the view of Manhattan and the Statue of Liberty from the roundtrip Staten Island ferry to do it for us - cheaper but majestic.
6) Relax. You have a busy schedule so remember to have fun.
7) Lastly, my son is in his first year of college and all my friends with older kids say - "They will still want to vacation with you... you just have to make the trips special... to lure them along!

I thought it was a given that the table service at Katz' was only for those who couldn't stand in line [oops, I've lived in California too long, make that "on line"] and carry a tray!

No, it has nothing to do with whether you have a handicapped parking sticker or not. It is just a matter of choice.

mp is correct, Rainbow Room is closed, I had thought the bar was still open and the restaurant closed, but no - both are.

Apparently, for $30/person you can do a "walking tour" of the Rockefeller buildings which includes entrance to top of the rock. I did not do this but my parents did and enjoyed it. The tour is approx. hour-90 min and you are on your own to go up to the observation deck. You save $5 by doing the combo, the top of the rock is $18 by itself.

They did they Irish tour at the Tenement Museum and enjoyed, FWIW.

My tourism of the city is clearly vicarious as I stayed at home and did laundry and watched Federer play instead while they went traipsing. Had what ended up as bad dinner at Esca (not my choice) - they whose table ended up sending back a course of over salter very well done (ordered rare) tuna. Their crudo was stellar, service was good, but I would avoid the place overall.

Re 2nd Ave deli, I am 90% positive the old space was a interior design space that specialized in kitchens.

During your stay there is a cirque du solei show at madison square garden will be a great opportunity not to be missed.

Someone knows if the ticket can be bought also at tkts?

Boradwybox.com is already offering discounts on tickets to Wintuk, the Cirque du Soleil show bateire mentioned. The 25% discount is good on tickets for performances through December 11. there's also a 'Kids go free" offer for certain times before Thanksgiving.

eyemom - Thanks for all the tips! You sure know how to travel with teens.

adu - Regarding Katz's, we will go with your suggestion and have the teens slip in their $ in the tip jar. I just hope that they don't yell at us, soup nazi style.

travelb - It's so sweet of you to offer assistance. We might take you up on that, thanks!

cherryb - I was sad to hear about the Rainbow Room. I repeatedly told my husband that we had to go to the RR for a drink "because cherrybomb said so", so now, even my DH is disappointed. Can you recommend a place close to the ESB where we can go for a drink while the kids are playing tourist? Some place comparable to a Rainbow Room experience that's quintessentially New York?

bateire - Are you referring to the cirque show Wintuk?

Broadwaybox.com!

sheesh . . .

adu - Regarding Katz's, we will go with your suggestion and have the teens slip in their $ in the tip jar. I just hope that they don't yell at us, soup nazi style.

Just act like you have done it before. Be sure to put the dollar in the jar when he is looking.

And just $1.00 -- that's all that's "required" to get you a much much fatter sandwich!

Oh, one more thing - pay the extra buck to get your pastrami sandwich "extra lean" -- let them cut off the excess fat instead of you having to do it (or eat it).

sf and adu: Whew! This is Pastrami 101, NY style! At the risk of being booted out of this forum, may I ask another duh question: If we ordered from the counterguy, then does that mean that we'll have to take the food outside to eat?

ellen: sorry, I didn't see your post about Wintuk earlier. We've seen Cirque's O in Las Vegas and one other show in Orlando (I forgot what it's called), but have never taken the kids to see the Nutcracker. If we had to pick one, should it be the ballet? We could technically squeeze both into our schedule but that would mean drastically cutting back on the "just walking around and enjoying the NY experience" time. (And all the foodie stops in Aduchamp's list)

I hope all of you who have been so kind to make suggestions to this family may an idea or two for my December trip to the city with my daughter.
1. Where can we go to volunteer to sing Christmas carols with people who are homeless?
2. How do we get to the New York Writers Coalition headquarters? My daughter wants to attend the workshop for children and teenagers who have a parent with cancer.
3. What are some tiny family-owned restaurants suffering in this recession where we can have dinner once or twice and tell them to hold on, things will be better soon?
4. Where can I find people who are not tourists?

I am serious. There is more than one meaning to Christmas, and I am teaching my daughter that it's more about giving than receiving. Didn't 9-1-1 teach you anything, lady?

Gelatolover,
I saw Wintuk and was unimpressed, but I admit I may just not be "Cirque" fan.
NYC Ballet's Nutcracker is a true "New York at Christmas" event.

Pinkintelligence;
2. Without knowing where you will be staying, it's hard to tell you how to get there. PLUS from the New York Writers Coalition website, their events take place all over the city. So, again, without knowing where this workshop will take place, we can't advise on how to get there.
3. Get away from the midtown tourist areas.
4. Get away from the midtown tourist areas.

pinkintelligence , since your question has a different focus and since some people have already responded to this thread so many times and will not look again, I suggest that you repost your questions as a separate topic.

(Just curious--did you leave something out of these sentences?
"I am serious. There is more than one meaning to Christmas, and I am teaching my daughter that it's more about giving than receiving. Didn't 9-1-1 teach you anything, lady?"
It reads a bit odd, out of context,and confrontational to the readers here)

1. why not volunteer to help with feeding the homeless (over singing with the homeless)?
2. google is your friend
3. ditto ellenem
4. ditto ellenem

I am new to posting, so please be gentle. I don't know how to make a smiley-face, either.
Your advice is good about moving to another thread. I have to be honest and admit that I am jealous that this lady...I'm sure she is very nice...has so much money to spend. My last two years have included a job lay-off on October 31... my ex-husband's cancer diagnosis (still my best friend even though we aren't married anymore)and the suicide of my cousin's wonderful son, age 24, who couldn't bear to go back to Iraq for a third tour. I have become legally blind and have had to give up driving, and the hardest thing for me is that I was a journalist for 20 years and, being 55 and partially signted,I can't convince anyone to give me a job.
It's only because of frequent flyer miles that I'm able to take this trip...but it's a very tough city to be poor in...at a time of year when it's a very painful reminder that all the wonderful things going on around me are things I used to be able to do. I am very sorry for commenting on this thread. I don't know how to start a new line of communication, and besides, I don't want anyone else to know how I have to live now. To the nice lady with the nice family, I hope they appreciate all the wonderful experiences they will have this Christmas. Blessings to all of you.

Look in the top left corner for "Start a new topic", click on it and type your question(s). That's how you start a new thread.

A smiley face is
: - )
but without spaces in between

<<<sf and adu: Whew! This is Pastrami 101, NY style! At the risk of being booted out of this forum, may I ask another duh question: If we ordered from the counterguy, then does that mean that we'll have to take the food outside to eat? >>>

No, the "full-service" tables are along one wall, the rest you just grab a table (and it's huge, but also very crowded).

Here is Pastrami 102:

It took me awhile, but I found it:

The Katz' "system" is extremely confusing, so here goes. First of all the table service is against the left wall -- the rest of the main room and the back room (I think) are for self-service customers. You definitely want to do self-serve, table service is for those who can't serve themselves (disabled, old, etc.).

When you enter, each person in your party gets a little ticket like an old-fashioned movie ticket. Then you go to the sandwich counter (on your right) and pick a line. Each server has his own line (none of the red rope, bank-teller type line here). You order from the server. Tell him what you want and he'll give you a taste of everything (even tuna in my daughter's case). Put $1.00 in his tip bowl, and make sure he sees you doing it -- it'll make the difference between a skinny sandwich and one that can feed two or three people LOL! If you want soup, he'll get that for you, too. Then he marks on the little ticket everything you ordered. BUT NOTE, drinks and french fries (which are excellent) are at a different line, so split up --- one person to get sandwiches and soup, one to get french fries and drinks and one to scout out a table!

When you're done, you head for the cashier where you turn in all your little tickets, even those that are blank, and they figure out what you owe (sort of little deli-dim sum).

Hope that helps. The food is worth it. Oh, one more thing - if you order pastrami or corned beef, ask for extra-lean. I think its $1.00 extra, but it's worth it.

To the OP - sorry I got your spirits up on the Rainbow Room...I can come up with something else for you, give me a few to think, though there is always the King Cole Bar or the Russian Vodka Room, I prefer the latter, on 50th Street and 8th Ave. Let me think though.

Pinkintellegence: while it is nice that you want to help those in need over a holiday period, given your situation, I would think that it would be best give to those in your own community rather than traveling to do so. I do not understand the rationale for traveling to NYC to "sing for homeless people" and go to "recession suffering restaurants to" to talk to the owners? Call me jaded, then again, I am probably wasting my energy typing a response.

Then I'm jaded with you, cherrybomb. You've echoed my thoughts exactly. Why not support one's own community in tough times?

To the poster who wanted chaitab;e activities:

Bowery Mission
http://www.yelp.com/biz/bowery-mission-new-york

City Harvest
http://www.cityharvest.org/#

As for family run restaurants, while the hamburger chains and Starbucks all over the city, there are few other chains except in Times Square.

If you go Chiantown, every restaurant I know is family owned as are almost all ethnic restaurants and still filled with some of the best bargains.

Here are some other well priced restaurants

La Marca
Lombardi's Pizza
Elie's Turo-turo-Filipino, the pancit is esceptional

Here is a list of inexpensive restaurants with others indicated.
Indian-Brick Lane-Banjara, Mitali, Brick Lane

Inexpensive Italian- La Marca (3rd Ave. and 22 Street, only opened noon-10 PM, Mon-Fri)

Medium priced Italian- Cacio e Pepe, Gnocco, Supper (cash only), Luzzos (Wood burning pizza oven)

Expensive Italian- I Coppi (For dinner But great brunch

Inexpensive Eastern European- Veselka

French Bistro-Cafe Deville, Casimir, Flea market (for atmosphere)

Greek-Pylos

Tapas-Xunta. Tia Pol, Bar Carrera, Café Mono (more expensive)

Dessert-Veniero's, DeRobertis for the frozen lemon thing and tortonis.

Bagels- Ess-a-Bagel

Brunches-Five Points, Blue Ribbon Bakery ,Turkish Kitchen , City Bakery (18th off 5th), Cafecito (Ave C), Clinton Street Bakery ,

Pizza-Lombardi's, Pizza Fresca

Pizza by the slice-Artichoke (14th Between First and Second) Bizarre service with a line because the pizza is good and the management is goofy

Hole in the wall-Stage (next to Stomp) great cheap home made soups

French fires-Pomme Frites

Noodles and dumplings-Momofuku , (we were not impressed with dimpling man on St. Marks.)

Seafood-Mermaid Inn

Ice Cream-Cones on Bleecker, Australia, Il Laboratorio de Gelato, Chinatown Ice Cream Factory, Cones and Sundaes (East 10th)

Chinatown-Big Wong. Joe’s Ginger, NY Noodletown

Dim Sum-Jing Fung, Golden Unicorn

Jewish Delis-2nd Ave Deli, Katz’s

BE happy to help if you need something while you are here. I have lived in the city for a long time, so know it very well.

Also had a thought, you might add to your list a trip to the Bronx Zoo in the evening, it is all lit up with well over 1 million lights and most of the exhibits are open. Some nights there are carolers and special activities, There's hot chocolate and hot cider at stands and in the cafeteria.

No clue why I am bothering to keep this nonsense going, but, none of those "family run businesses" that Aduchamp1 listed are hurting for business, nor would I expect that the owners want to have someone come in to have a cheerleading rally about how things will get better.

Either way, it is a good list of budget to moderate dining options, with the exception of Momofuku - it is higher priced and David Chang, the proprietor is doing incredibly well in building his NYC empire. Also, every item on the menu has meat, specifically, pork in it if that is an issue for people. I concur on Dumpling Man, Plump Dumpling is marginally better. Better dumplings can be had @ the Madison, Canal, Essex, Allen, E. B'way, Rutgers nexus. Cheaper too.

It took years for the Chiantown restaurants to recover from 9/11, the subseuent parking difficulties with the closing of the garage under police headquarters, and the restrictions Guiliani put on them reagrding fireworks during the New Year's.

And there were newspaper articles and community leaders that were leading rallies.

I just passed Max Brenner on 2nd Ave and it is closed. That is a palce I went to once but it seemed to be a favorite with kids. It could be their lease, internal problems, or lack of bsuiness.

Sometimes it is hard to determine whether a place is doing well.

Point taken, though I would argue that Max Brenner was a waste of space on that block. I still stand by my assertion that 99.9% of restaurateurs would not appreciate a pep talk from a stranger.

I agree with you cb, sounds a bit suspicious to me....

Enjoying the lists from aduchamp1!

Okaaaaay.....

sf: Whew! Am anxiously reading and re-reading Pastrami 102 for fear of missing something. Loved the reference to little deli-dimsum tickets! I can't wait to have my first taste of NY Pastrami.

cherrybomb: I googled Russian Vodka Room - The (mixed) reviews were interesting and very informative! The place has a TON of fans. Horseradish/garlic/pepper vodka - seriously? I think I'd like to try that, as weird as it sounds.....

I have a question about the River Cafe. First let me digress. Years and years ago (okay, make that decades ago), I had always dreamed of having dinner at the Tavern on the Green. I had this impression that a visit to NY wasn't complete without eating at the restaurant. The few times that my husband and I were able to go to NY (before kids), eating there was never an option because there was no way we could have afforded it. Yesterday, I suddenly remembered that "dream", (ok, I'm a little odd), and googled the restaurant. It seems to have been slipping a little, and I've been reading more positive comments about the River Cafe - about the location, the view, the wonderful holiday decorations, and of course, the food. Will this be a truly memorable NY dining experience for the kids? The only other "planned" dinner where we will be taking the kids will be Eleven Madison. And maybe lunch at The Modern. The rest of the time, we will be happily chomping on all the goodies that you guys have recommended: pastramis, dumplings, gelato, pommes frites, pizzas, bagels and bialys, oh my!

Anyway, what do you think about the River Cafe? As far as HOW we'll get to the restaurant (I have the impression that it's not THAT close.....), that's another matter....

The River Cafe is all about the view and the chocolate dessert in the shape of the bridge. It's a perfectly good, "fancy" restaurant with a terrific view. Food wise (and probably cost wise) it will pale in comparison to your dinner at Eleven Madison. The teens will probably like River Cafe better, unless they are particularly interested in food. Eleven Madison is more sophisticated, more New York and is probably ranked one of the top 5 or 10 fine dining restaurants in the city right now. River Cafe will be a bit more touristy.

River Cafe is actually quite easy to get to - take the A train on the Westside to the High St.?Cadmen Pl. stop (it's the first stop in Brooklyn)and walk down the hill to the water. From midtown, should take 25 minutes. If you are going around a weekday dinner hour, I would suggest taking the train (it will be crowded with commuters, but trains are frequent) and the restaurant will call you a cab to go back to midtown, or you can walk back up the hill and take the A train back. Or even better, you could walk over the bridge either way . . . not recommended in fancy shoes, though!

If you decide to go to the River Cafe ... and since you "dumped" the $150/hr tour..you might want to take some of that savings and use a car service. Not much more expensive than a taxi and you'll know the cost before you get into the car! Be sure it's a car... and not a limo. Your hotel can help you with this. Getting to Brooklyn will probably entail a drive down the FDR and you can get a good gander at Roosevelt Island, the East River, etc. If you don't have time to shop for your sweet on Xmas Eve.... there's a Teuscher chocolate on 61st between Madison and Fifth.

For you New Yorker's who get out - Is Tao on 58th street a bad bet now? Thought the kids might enjoy it.

Thanks to all the knowledgeable folks on this thread. I'm planning a Christmas week trip for myself, my husband and our five year old daughter. This is great information!

mp,
Thanks for giving me a clearer picture of River Cafe. I'm sure that will be a fun "destination" type of restaurant not just for the kids, but for all of us. The pictures on the restaurant's website show such an incredible view of the water and the city lights. As far as the kids being foodies, my son inherited the gene while my daughter will happily gorge herself on pasta and bread, day in and day out. She won't even eat seafood. I called the River Cafe restaurant and was told that they're open on Christmas Day but will only start taking reservations on November 25. For other dates in December though, reservations can be made anytime. I was thinking maybe a Christmas Day brunch before the Knicks game.... or maybe our farewell-to-NY lunch before our late afternoon flight back home.

To those who have been to River Cafe, if you had a choice between lunch or dinner, when would you go? DH thinks day time to see the water, but DS wants to go at night so he can look at the lights.

Gwendolynn: Thanks for the heads up on the Teuscher location - that will really be the spot for last-minute presents too, since we'll be meeting up with several sets of relatives/friends. The car service to the River Cafe will be a convenience that's going to be worth it.

Kate wrote: "Thanks to all the knowledgeable folks on this thread.... This is great information!"


AMEN!!!

I wouldn't rush the River Cafe brunch and then be anxious about getting to the Knick game - doesn't it usually start around 12 noon? I could be wrong.

One idea would be to go for an early dinner (say 5:00 or 5;30) which is around sunset in December, then you can see the lights come on - pretty magical - and will be a nice ride back into Manhattan, either by car service or taxi.

mp - Of course! That's the best solution! We'll go with your initial suggestion of pastrami and eggs before the noon game on Christmas Day (in your earlier post). As far as the River Cafe goes, does this sound like a realistic schedule: we'll make a 4:30 or 5 pm reservation at the River Cafe and still make it to one of the 8 pm shows (either Billy Elliot on the 23rd or Hair on the 26th). Would the traffic on the 26th be absolutely crazy, and therefore risky, if we're scrambling to catch the 8 pm show?

Thank you!

Just found out that River Cafe doesn't open for dinner till 5:30 pm. Still doable?

Dec. 26th is a Saturday, so I would estimate a car service or taxi ride from River Cafe to midtown around 7:15 would be 30 minutes - any good restaurant in NY will be able to get you in and out in an hour and 45 minutes, as long as you tell them at the start of the meal you're going to a show. They're happy to turn the table. Traffic around the theatre district is the worst problem - you should zip in over the bridge.

On the 23rd, (a workday a few days before the holiday) I would actually take a train back into Manhattan - it would be much faster, the A runs express to 42nd St - also would take about 25 or 30 minutes, at the most.

Of course, that's just opinion by a lifelong NYer. I could be mistaken.

bookmarking. some really great suggestions here!

I just came across a super website that feature discounts for everything during a trip to NYC. It's called www.nyc-visitor-discounts.com. I've been particularly successful with the show and zoo tickets.

Good luck!

Funny how jill1jill's fisrt and only post is advertising some other site.

mp: Thank you for your advice re: River Cafe on Dec. 23 or 26. It looks like we'll be taking the train if we want to make it to Broadway by 8 pm.

I just found aussiedreamer's thread "Attention: Doug or Ellen help me 'dumb down' the NYC subway". It sounds so complicated that I'm thinking maybe it's easier to just run across the Brooklyn Bridge all the way into Broadway.....

I'll print the entire subway thread and pass on the job of learning "NY Subway 101" to my husband and let him worry about that....

Thanks so much!