Brother moving to Santa Fe
Oct 17th, 2010, 07:33 AM
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Brother moving to Santa Fe
My 56 year old brother and his girlfriend are leaving pa to move to sf, nm. I question if they have done their research on costs, weather, etc. They will be renting and both unemployed, due to health problems. She hates cold weather. they are very liberal politically and otherwise, but I am not sure they truly know what they will encounter there in everyday life. Can anyone give me some info on this?
Oct 17th, 2010, 08:19 AM
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What kind of info?
Santa Fe is expensive by Southwest standards, not as costly probably as many other cities and areas.
It is cold, they have snow, health care is far worse here than in other metro areas [fewer doctors, long waits for appointments, etc, gas is expensive in Santa Fe. The altitude can be a problem for people with breathing/lung conditions.
If they are planning on getting unemployment benefits here, I think they are much lower than in other areas.
Is that enough info??
Santa Fe is expensive by Southwest standards, not as costly probably as many other cities and areas.
It is cold, they have snow, health care is far worse here than in other metro areas [fewer doctors, long waits for appointments, etc, gas is expensive in Santa Fe. The altitude can be a problem for people with breathing/lung conditions.
If they are planning on getting unemployment benefits here, I think they are much lower than in other areas.
Is that enough info??
Oct 17th, 2010, 01:49 PM
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I don't think they have enough info. And it is smart to think a bit before rushing to unkind judgments, Bill. Our parents are dead. My brother and I are very close. He just recovered from Leukemia, maybe (marrow transplant). I am concerned about his general well-being. He has a girlfriend, but no family out there.Always err on the side of kindness.
Oct 17th, 2010, 06:20 PM
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I moved to Santa Fe from New York and the winters are similar, just shorter in length. If your brother is looking for warm weather, they should consider Arizona or Nevada. The job market is dismal, especially for people over 50. Health care is dreadful and they shouldn't consider moving here without insurance. The cost of living is as high as New York. Politically, it is a liberal town, but politically corrupt. They should visit for an extended period of time before moving here. It is a beautiful place to live though, if you enjoy an arid landscape.
Oct 17th, 2010, 06:25 PM
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[Welcome to Fodors, nyc. I am also a transplanted NYer, been in NM since '01.]
They will also need a car, public transportation isn't the best once you leave the main downtown areas of Santa Fe.
Have they ever even been to Santa Fe?
They will also need a car, public transportation isn't the best once you leave the main downtown areas of Santa Fe.
Have they ever even been to Santa Fe?
Oct 17th, 2010, 06:33 PM
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I would have to know way more about your brother's personality to advise whether or not he would like Santa Fe as a place to live, but from what you've written so far I don't see why not.
1) Santa Fe is expensive by southwest standards, but big eastern cities are equally (if not more) expensive. Housing costs are very much neighbourhood dependent. The plaza area, which attracts a lot of out-of-state-second-home investors, will be out of reach on a modest budget. But there are many other areas that are reasonably priced, or your brother could choose to live just slightly outside Santa Fe (i.e. Espanola) and live huge on very little money.
2) Public transit is way better than most people think. You really don't need a car. Local bus service is only $1 a trip, $2 a day, and $20 a month.
3) Groceries are reasonable. I shop Albertson's for meat, dairy, and staples, and Sunflower Market for produce. I'll also pick up random items at Walmart and Target. But usually, the sales at Albertson's offer extremely competitive pricing.
4) Yes, it gets cold here. It snows. But if you're used to "wet cold" the "dry cold" is very different. I grew up on the west coast of Canada where the winter climate is considered mild. But the rain and wind made winter miserable. I'll take a dry snow any day. And hey, it's October 17th and the weather is still summertime beautiful.
5) Unlike much of the southwest, I find the people here are very liberal minded. Maybe more liberal than anywhere else in the US. You are surrounded by artists, scientists, and people attracted to Santa Fe for health reasons (think organic living). I think of these people as the "rich liberals". On the flip side, lots of people with modest means who are economically attracted to liberal principles.
***
Here's the big thing for your brother to consider: this is a very small city. Beautiful to come as a tourist, but the roads are often narrow and in need of repair. Both the Walmart and Target are relatively small, the mall is awful (really awful), and everything else is so spread out that going more than one place can take hours. There is a huge Mexican population, primarily Catholic, and lots of food and "atmosphere" to this effect. It is a little like living in Mexico (only more refined). It is not an urban environment like other cities of a similar size. But that is why I love it and he may too.
1) Santa Fe is expensive by southwest standards, but big eastern cities are equally (if not more) expensive. Housing costs are very much neighbourhood dependent. The plaza area, which attracts a lot of out-of-state-second-home investors, will be out of reach on a modest budget. But there are many other areas that are reasonably priced, or your brother could choose to live just slightly outside Santa Fe (i.e. Espanola) and live huge on very little money.
2) Public transit is way better than most people think. You really don't need a car. Local bus service is only $1 a trip, $2 a day, and $20 a month.
3) Groceries are reasonable. I shop Albertson's for meat, dairy, and staples, and Sunflower Market for produce. I'll also pick up random items at Walmart and Target. But usually, the sales at Albertson's offer extremely competitive pricing.
4) Yes, it gets cold here. It snows. But if you're used to "wet cold" the "dry cold" is very different. I grew up on the west coast of Canada where the winter climate is considered mild. But the rain and wind made winter miserable. I'll take a dry snow any day. And hey, it's October 17th and the weather is still summertime beautiful.
5) Unlike much of the southwest, I find the people here are very liberal minded. Maybe more liberal than anywhere else in the US. You are surrounded by artists, scientists, and people attracted to Santa Fe for health reasons (think organic living). I think of these people as the "rich liberals". On the flip side, lots of people with modest means who are economically attracted to liberal principles.
***
Here's the big thing for your brother to consider: this is a very small city. Beautiful to come as a tourist, but the roads are often narrow and in need of repair. Both the Walmart and Target are relatively small, the mall is awful (really awful), and everything else is so spread out that going more than one place can take hours. There is a huge Mexican population, primarily Catholic, and lots of food and "atmosphere" to this effect. It is a little like living in Mexico (only more refined). It is not an urban environment like other cities of a similar size. But that is why I love it and he may too.
Oct 18th, 2010, 08:21 AM
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Look: Santa Fe is theoretically an ideal place for liberals. It is relatively clean, the place is run by lefties, they have bicyclers, pedestrians, recycling, artists, and lovely concepts like "living wage" laws. It's a great place to visit.
But New Mexico has a decent sized personal income tax that a similarly liberal city like Austin, TX, does not. Santa Fe's living wage law depresses the job market, restricts commercial opportunities and prevents entrepreneurship. To the extent Santa Fe has a job market, a lot of it is because the city is a government town as the capital of New Mexico. It is also relatively expensive and in winter it is bloody cold. And DebitNM is from (duh) NM so I'd trust her regarding the health care drawbacks. Your brother will need to conduct personal health maintenance on a frequent basis. SF has no major or even decent-sized university nor medical school that would attract top patient care.
Want a suggestion for your brother for a place that follows the liberal pieties and yet has all the accoutrements of a major city (including health care that could meet his needs, and world class hospitals within 200 miles?) -- Austin, Texas. For liberals, it's an oasis of liberalism in Texas, and is not just a government town -- there is the University, major commercial businesses (Dell, Whole Foods), better hospitals and job opportunities (50% of the private sector jobs in America in the last year were added in Texas) and still has Hippie Hollow, the trails along Town Lake, and NO days where the weather dips below 10 F.
But New Mexico has a decent sized personal income tax that a similarly liberal city like Austin, TX, does not. Santa Fe's living wage law depresses the job market, restricts commercial opportunities and prevents entrepreneurship. To the extent Santa Fe has a job market, a lot of it is because the city is a government town as the capital of New Mexico. It is also relatively expensive and in winter it is bloody cold. And DebitNM is from (duh) NM so I'd trust her regarding the health care drawbacks. Your brother will need to conduct personal health maintenance on a frequent basis. SF has no major or even decent-sized university nor medical school that would attract top patient care.
Want a suggestion for your brother for a place that follows the liberal pieties and yet has all the accoutrements of a major city (including health care that could meet his needs, and world class hospitals within 200 miles?) -- Austin, Texas. For liberals, it's an oasis of liberalism in Texas, and is not just a government town -- there is the University, major commercial businesses (Dell, Whole Foods), better hospitals and job opportunities (50% of the private sector jobs in America in the last year were added in Texas) and still has Hippie Hollow, the trails along Town Lake, and NO days where the weather dips below 10 F.
Oct 18th, 2010, 11:56 AM
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Espanola?? Seriously, you really can't be serious. "Live huge in Espanola" that's a joke right?
The outlying areas of Santa Fe are difficult without a car, I can't imagine Espanola; and that's not even talking about other reasons why I would not imagine someone moving there.
BigRuss is right about working in SF, but it sounds like OP's brother is on disability and maybe his gf too so employment may not be concerns. Medicaid and Medicare may be more important and there are issues with finding doctors that will accept new medicare/medicaid patients and long waits for appointments when you find one. There is only 1 hospital in Santa Fe, could be an issue too.
Healthcare in NM is a big concern, malpractice rates are sky high and medicare and medicaid reimbursements are low. Doctors used to have to pay gross receipts taxes, not sure if that is still the case. All of these cause many physicians to flee the state. Mine DH did just that, he no longer practices in NM.
And about those gross receipts taxes, you have to pay those for most services. Luckily, they stopped them on food in '05.
Lots to consider.
The outlying areas of Santa Fe are difficult without a car, I can't imagine Espanola; and that's not even talking about other reasons why I would not imagine someone moving there.
BigRuss is right about working in SF, but it sounds like OP's brother is on disability and maybe his gf too so employment may not be concerns. Medicaid and Medicare may be more important and there are issues with finding doctors that will accept new medicare/medicaid patients and long waits for appointments when you find one. There is only 1 hospital in Santa Fe, could be an issue too.
Healthcare in NM is a big concern, malpractice rates are sky high and medicare and medicaid reimbursements are low. Doctors used to have to pay gross receipts taxes, not sure if that is still the case. All of these cause many physicians to flee the state. Mine DH did just that, he no longer practices in NM.
And about those gross receipts taxes, you have to pay those for most services. Luckily, they stopped them on food in '05.
Lots to consider.
Oct 21st, 2010, 07:17 AM
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Espanola? No, I'm not kidding. It all depends on what you're used to and what you like to do. There are a lot of people (i.e. retirees, stay-at-home moms, etc.) who spend most of their time at home, and when they do go out would simply like to wander around Walmart for a couple of hours. For modest income people, Espanola has better shopping than Santa Fe and it's simple layout is very accessible. And there is a shuttle service to Santa Fe (the blue bus) which is free.
Having lived both inside and outside of a large, expensive city, Espanola is what I would have considered ideal. Close enough to the city that I could play "tourist" whenever I would like; at the same time, saving on day-to-day life that would allow me to splurge on activities (i.e. concerts and trips) that I could never afford when paying premium downtown rents.
PA is a very diverse state in terms of towns and cities and none of us know what "Bill" is used to or looking for in terms of amenities. Maybe he spent his working life commuting an hour and a half each way and living 30 minutes from town is not a big deal. And Espanola was only a suggestion, not a recommendation. And I admit to assuming that neither "Bill" or his girlfriend were planning to look for jobs here.
A lot of people have been making disparaging remarks regarding public transit in Santa Fe as well. I still maintain that the transit here is excellent. No, it's not "instant". In peak hours, the most frequent service is every 15 minutes. Off-peak, some routes run only once an hour. But the buses do run to schedule. They are fairly new, and have comfortable seating (and since so few people take the bus you can usually get a seat). Most places I have lived (large cities) a monthly transit pass is over $100. Here, it is $20. Transit will never be as convenient as a car, but I find the prejudice against transit lies in the fact that a lot of people have always lived with the convenience of a car and can not adjust to living on a bus schedule.
And as for medical care, I would make sure that "Bill" can access what he needs no matter where he goes due to his special needs. When we moved to Santa Fe, we lucked into family care due to our daughter being an infant at the time. The paediatrician we saw for her immunizations made a referral on our behalf. But this was a fluke, and had our daughter been even a bit older I'm sure that it would have been more challenging.
I will say that I'm intrigued with BigRuss's Austin suggestion. Austin has been on our radar as a future possibility, especially when I return to work (I'm currently a full-time mom).
But I know that it is possible to live well in Santa Fe with limited means. We took a huge income hit moving here with only my husband working, adding children, and having no family support (never underestimate the value of "free" babysitting). Stretching our pennies, without compromising our basic lifestyle, is my full-time job. We live with one car (which my husband takes to work) which is how I can comment on transit. If you're strategic with your dollars, this is a fabulous city with lots of cheap (and even free) stuff to do. We could not afford the same quality of life, balanced with employment, in a lot of places we considered (DC, NY, WA, OR, CA).
Having lived both inside and outside of a large, expensive city, Espanola is what I would have considered ideal. Close enough to the city that I could play "tourist" whenever I would like; at the same time, saving on day-to-day life that would allow me to splurge on activities (i.e. concerts and trips) that I could never afford when paying premium downtown rents.
PA is a very diverse state in terms of towns and cities and none of us know what "Bill" is used to or looking for in terms of amenities. Maybe he spent his working life commuting an hour and a half each way and living 30 minutes from town is not a big deal. And Espanola was only a suggestion, not a recommendation. And I admit to assuming that neither "Bill" or his girlfriend were planning to look for jobs here.
A lot of people have been making disparaging remarks regarding public transit in Santa Fe as well. I still maintain that the transit here is excellent. No, it's not "instant". In peak hours, the most frequent service is every 15 minutes. Off-peak, some routes run only once an hour. But the buses do run to schedule. They are fairly new, and have comfortable seating (and since so few people take the bus you can usually get a seat). Most places I have lived (large cities) a monthly transit pass is over $100. Here, it is $20. Transit will never be as convenient as a car, but I find the prejudice against transit lies in the fact that a lot of people have always lived with the convenience of a car and can not adjust to living on a bus schedule.
And as for medical care, I would make sure that "Bill" can access what he needs no matter where he goes due to his special needs. When we moved to Santa Fe, we lucked into family care due to our daughter being an infant at the time. The paediatrician we saw for her immunizations made a referral on our behalf. But this was a fluke, and had our daughter been even a bit older I'm sure that it would have been more challenging.
I will say that I'm intrigued with BigRuss's Austin suggestion. Austin has been on our radar as a future possibility, especially when I return to work (I'm currently a full-time mom).
But I know that it is possible to live well in Santa Fe with limited means. We took a huge income hit moving here with only my husband working, adding children, and having no family support (never underestimate the value of "free" babysitting). Stretching our pennies, without compromising our basic lifestyle, is my full-time job. We live with one car (which my husband takes to work) which is how I can comment on transit. If you're strategic with your dollars, this is a fabulous city with lots of cheap (and even free) stuff to do. We could not afford the same quality of life, balanced with employment, in a lot of places we considered (DC, NY, WA, OR, CA).
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