Go Back  Fodor's Travel Talk Forums > Destinations > United States
Reload this Page >

Americans who want airline security to be like EL AL are crazy

Americans who want airline security to be like EL AL are crazy

Old Sep 15th, 2001, 04:08 AM
  #1  
Someone from Israel
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Americans who want airline security to be like EL AL are crazy

I am getting a kick out of all the people who are asking for the American airline industry to start being just like the Israeli Air Carrier El Al. You do not know what you are talking about!

Flying on El Al is very safe but just plain terrible. We are asked to get to the airport four hours before the flight and are asked some incrediblely rude and bizzare questions. Husbands and wives are broken up and asked questions separately and their answers compared. All bags are inspected and you are questioned about year item. You are questioned about each item in your bag, where you bought it and why you need to bring it along.

Finally, before flying your background is investigated. Your entire life history may be looked into, including your friends, family, life style, way of life, travel habits and personal habits.

This may be necessary for Isreal because of our physical location near to the West Bank and Arab countries, but in America?

I now live in America and know that our economy is based in part on travel. I for one enjoyed trips to Las Vegas, Orlando, etc just because they were nice places to visit. I will not visit those places any more if I have to go through four hours of questioning like I did when I flew on El Al. I will just stay at home and let the airlines, cruise ships, hotels, resorts, etc, etc go out of business and lay off millions of my fellow Americans.

There has to be a better more efficent way to protect our airplanes.
 
Old Sep 15th, 2001, 04:16 AM
  #2  
John
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
I think security will become more like El Al but not the SAME as El Al. The situations between our two nations are different even though vigilance is now gonna have to be our watchword. Personally, I've always though domestic airline security was too lax so it doesn't bother me one iota that it's being tightened.

Don't stay home because someone inconveniences you with questions. This may happen at Disney World in the future, for god's sake. Go out and enjoy the world.
 
Old Sep 15th, 2001, 06:47 AM
  #3  
Jones
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Americans who don't want airline security to be like EL AL are still living in a fool's world.

No, we don't have to duplicate every last detail -- probably can't. But the persistence of the idea that the point of air travel should be unencumbered and luxurious speed will only keep us just as vulnerable as we used to be - maybe more so.

I know this is a forum for people who have travel as a hobby. It is/was for me. But hobbies become luxuries in tough times.

As to business travel, which is definitely not a hobby -- you still have to recognize that some aspects of air travel have been seriously non-essential, or have come at a much higher price than we had, until Tuesday, actually paid.

I for one would be delighted to see a marshall in front of the cockpit door and know that another was sitting somewhere else in the plane. I for one have no problem with waiting another hour to board.

 
Old Sep 15th, 2001, 12:51 PM
  #4  
Texas
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

Me? They can interrogate, search, sniff, x-ray, check, recheck & look into any aspect of my life they want to. I have nothing to hide. If it takes longer at the airport, it takes longer. I don't want to find myself on a flight (or my someone I love on a passenger list) along with a suicide bomber who uses my plane as a weapon against my own nation.

You're "getting a kick" out of this? Same road that led into the U.S. will lead you right back out, son.



 
Old Sep 15th, 2001, 07:34 PM
  #5  
al
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

First of all, El Al overall runs a very small percentage of flights. Second of all, most of those flights are long distance. I'm not sure your average Joe would want to go through 3 hours of security for a 2 hour business flight. Although their security record is as good as it gets, in my opinion it's not a practical system for the U.S.
 
Old Sep 16th, 2001, 04:08 AM
  #6  
Texas
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

Hmmmmm .... practical or dead? Let's see now ..... think I'll choose practical.
 
Old Sep 16th, 2001, 11:06 AM
  #7  
Linda
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Texas, I like the way you put it. Practical or dead? El Al has, if not the best, one of the best security sytems in the world when it comes to flying. Why should we not emulate the best? At least when I fly on El Al, I feel safe, something that until now I have not felt when flying out of an American airport. Practical or dead? A good question. And, if giving up a little of my privacy means safety, I'm willing to do it. Maybe if that had been in effect on September 11th, 5,000 dead people would be alive today.
 
Old Sep 16th, 2001, 02:36 PM
  #8  
Ruth
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
I can remember standing on line with EL Al (London to NYC) and seeing them interrogate an African American navy mom who was without her husband. I am calling the person a women but she was very young. They were grilling her and I could not understand this because she had an American passport and they were not taking her away like she was very suspicious. It really looked like they were training young staff. I also noticed that they were passing on all men and only focusing on young women.

It was starting to get ugly or just inappropriate they were saying why are smiling meanwhile they were asking very nonsensical questions like, “why did you come all the way to Europe to see your husband”? I really got the impression that these little girls that El Al was subjecting this women to (in front of her child) were not being monitored appropriately by the older male manager that seemed to be directing everything. Of course I spoke up and the spotlight was redirected on me. When she was passed on by may words it became clear to me that they were training staff. I turned to receive my inquisition and was very patient about 5 minutes into the conversation. I had been to Israel and I felt that I understood some of the need for the conversation but then it was my turn to get a silly question only this time I was subjected to the older male manager. He said to me what is a single woman doing traveling in Europe all by herself. This was put to me in a very accusatory tone. WELL I THINK THEY HEARD MY RESPONSE ON EVERY CONCOURSE. I was furious and guess what? I was quickly processed and the discussion was over. They were quite angry at the disturbance that I caused and would not allow me a small daypack carry on. I was largely angry that I was used as a guinea pig. I thought this was an abuse of the carrier’s power.

I stepped on the plane and when the meal cart came around they asked the man sitting next to me what I would be having for dinner (moving right along in the 17th century). I was not reading or sleeping just sitting. The Israeli attendant just could only see the man sitting next to me. When I arrived my bags were not to be found but sent them on to me in two days and items had been stolen.

I don’t think out of fear we should let Business’s have cart-blanch on our rights. Yes I want ski marshals but I don’t think we will have to stoop to the El AL level. I have met a few people that have been strip searched by El Al and guess what again they are always female. Oh yes the people I knew where American and English also not terrorists, think they were training then? They have to train sometime you know. We all have to consider what amount of rights are ok to forgo in the face of fear. I think we have come too far in this country to wind back the clock on our civil liberties.
 
Old Sep 16th, 2001, 05:17 PM
  #9  
Mary
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
So El Al isn't politically correct in your opinion? Big deal, after what those suicide bombers have done to their communal phyches, I'd wonder what was wrong if they did worry about some hurt feelings on account of their intrusive questions. Better rude then dead! By the way, I have flown to Israel twice. Once on El Al with my family, and we all lived even after the questions and bag checking. Last year I flew there with my best girlfriend ( we're in our late 40s) on KLM and I'll be damned if we didn't get the exact same onceover. Must be tht those airlines, not only El Al, get something that you obviously don't. Its a dangerous world, and its smarter to be safe then sorry. I get it, KLM, El Al, Continental and all those other airlines are just trying to protect us. Its going to happen here and I'm happy about it, especially after I see that plane crashing into the WTC. Heres another hassle I would appreciate. In Turkey, just flying from one city in the country to another domestically, You take a bus out to the plane (no jetways) you identify your luggage and then you board. If you don't, they don't load your luggage. I wasn't use to it, but I understood why they did it. Really, us Americans have been living in a dream world. I enjoyed the ease of flying, but not at the expense of my life or that of my familys.
 
Old Sep 16th, 2001, 05:29 PM
  #10  
Sal
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
What Ruth describes does go beyond reason. However, these days I am much less concerned about niceties and far more concerned about safety. I think our society has let the pendulum swing too far and to the point it no longer protects the innocent; quite the opposite, it paves the path for those hell bent on destructive behavior. Civil liberties, in its original context,assured us the freedoms and fairness guaranteed in the constitution. Like so many other things intended for the common good, this too is something that has been far too abused and given way too broad an interpretation.
 
Old Sep 16th, 2001, 08:01 PM
  #11  
Philip
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
I believe after the U.S. sat and watched all the hijackings in the 1970's that they should have done more than they have so far. Why isn't there a solid door betwen the cockpit and cabin? The pilots should be able to lock themselves in and not come out for any reason.
 
Old Sep 17th, 2001, 03:28 AM
  #12  
Ruth
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
It is about using me to train people Mary not about asking the questions. I paid just as much for my ticket why should I have been used in this way. This also was not my first flight with El Al but I did not have this kind of problem when I traveled with a family and the male in our group handed over our passports. This was on a trip a year or more earlier from London to Israel. I would have not had this problem if they were not targeting single women. I was in London I was going home. This was nonsense. If it was not nonsense than they would have continued to question me regardless of my resistance. And it’s not about being politically correct Mary it is about being treated unfairly. I DID NOT LIKE IT IN CASE THAT DID NOT SINK IN FOR YOU. I know that I mentioned five minutes of conversation but I can tell you that I was standing at the counter for quite a bit longer than that. I don’t think El Al ever had any intention of finding a terrorist with me. They would not even have questioned me if I had not given them a hard time for badgering the African American woman.

I was the last to board the plane and had been in the airport for 5 hours preceding departure. They abused the privileges they were given for security.
 
Old Sep 17th, 2001, 03:44 AM
  #13  
Kate
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Mary “Better rude than Dead” ? It looked to me like what Ruth was talking about went well beyond rude. I do not want that. I have been padded down in Turkey, question by BA in London and other things but if it were clear that I was being used to train someone, I would blow also. What was that with the luggage and stolen items? Get a grip people she is not saying no security she is saying “RESPONSIBLE SECURITY”. We all should want that.
 
Old Sep 17th, 2001, 04:39 AM
  #14  
Texas
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

What one considers an invasion of one's own privacy or inappropriate screening is EXACTLY the type interrogation & scrutiny one would want a terrorist subjected to ---

 
Old Sep 17th, 2001, 04:44 AM
  #15  
Robert
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Texas, With your line of reasoning than all terrorists only need raise their voice if they want to get on a plane.
 
Old Sep 17th, 2001, 04:54 AM
  #16  
Kelly Robinson
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
I hate to tell you all this but turning our airlines into El Al ain't gonna happen and even if it did, it wouldn't work.
1) As someone mentioned above, no one will be willing to endure a 4-5 hour wait/interrogation to fly 200 miles to see Mickly Mouse. Which means, those tourists will drive. Which means the airlines will suffer. Which means some/many airlines (like Airtran) willl go out of business [Midwest already has gone out of business]. Which means the big boys - Delta, American, etc. - will raise fares like nobody's business. In case we've forgotten, our economy was wobbly BEFORE the WTC were destroyed.
2) We, as Americans, may say we want this El Al level of security NOW, but give it some time and we'll all be bitching and moaning about it and there'll be lawsuits, and people will quit flying and see remarks above about economy.
3) There are other, less intrusive things that can be done to increase security. Better, stronger doors leading into the cockpit. Something better than the plywood contraptions they have now. Hire (and pay) competant security at the airports. Use sky marshalls (maybe not on every flight, but get the word out that there MIGHT be one on every flight.)
And even with all of this even if we went the El Al route, there are still NO guarantees.
 
Old Sep 17th, 2001, 05:10 AM
  #17  
Texas
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

Whoa, Robert.

The situation described above was unfortunate for a legitimate traveler to endure. But stomping feet & hollering should get you escorted out, NOT get you through the process faster. You missed my point, son.
 
Old Sep 17th, 2001, 05:25 AM
  #18  
Robert
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
That is what happened to Ruth thought you read this. I thought you were responding to this. She yelled they processed her now how concerned with Terrorism were they on that day?
 
Old Sep 17th, 2001, 05:34 AM
  #19  
safety
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
I bet Ruth got snappy with them and got the treatment she deserved.

Their culture treats women differently. It cetainly is not "right" by our standards, but if you don't like it, then fly on an American carrier.
 
Old Sep 17th, 2001, 05:39 AM
  #20  
Robert
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
That's intelligent "safety" can't wait to live in your world. I did not know it was ok to abuse someone's rights when they get "snappy" as you put it.
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -