4/5 BR Rental Apartment in New York City?

Most apartments in NYC canot be legally rented for the short term.
Your best bet would be to get two 2-bedroom suites at one of the Affinia Properties:
affinia.com

Thank you Susie (that's also DW's name!), but when I submitted my booking request to Affinia, I got the response "You are not authorized to view this page"!

Okay, finally Affinia's website worked. They charge 549$ for a 2 BR suite, that makes 1,098$ for us all per night - that's pretty steep. I still hope to find something considerably below that rate.

Try these:
San Carlos
Best Western Hospitality
the Blakely
the Belvedere
Radio City apts.
Murray Hill East Suites
Milburn
Beacon
Lucerne
the Manhattan Club
Elysee
the Buckingham
http://www.nycsalisbury.com/
Doubletree Guest Suites Times Square
Embassy Suites

You could also search for bed and breakfast's in Manhattan. There are many to choose from with different amenities available.

Thank you again, Susie, for your effort. But we have not thought of a hotel, more of real apartment. Finally, I have found two offers which seem to be suited for us.

One is located at West 105th street, off Central Park West, the other one at West 123rd Street / Mount Morris Park West (5th Avenue).

What do you think of these locations? (I have located both with Google Earth, so I know they are somewhat remote but have access to public transport - but what about safety, neighborhood etc.?)

It is my understanding that most short-term apartment rentals are illegal and/or scams. I would research carefully and hopefully some of the New Yorkers on the board will chime in.

>>>It is my understanding that most short-term apartment rentals are illegal and/or scams.<<<

Both are VRBO rentals:

http://www.vrbo.com/220405
http://www.vrbo.com/224212

In other cities (Savannah, San Antonio, Santa Fe), we have made excellent experiences with rentals from VRBO. Do you you think VRBO rentals in New York are illegal?

Many, many apartments in NYC - esp larger and more upscael ones are either co-ops or condos - which have very different legal circumstances than rentals. Typically the owners are fined if it's found that they have sublet the apartments at all without prior approval - and vetting of the tenants - of the board.

There are very few apartments that large in NYC - a 3-bedroom is considered large. And the ones that are that big would be mostly luxury buildings - no short-term rentals allowed - and not within the budget you're talking about. (People with a multi-million dollar co-op or condo don't rent it out on a short-term basis - even if the co-op allowed it, which they don't.) And even if they are, the landlord won;t want transients wandering in and out of the building. Nor will they appreciated complaints from their very upscale tenants.

You could look for buildings that specialize in corporate rentals - but would have to probably take 2 2 -bedroom apartments - and again - not sure your price range will cover it - but you can try.

As for easter - it can be early spring or it can still be winter. You should know that the grass may still be brown and the trees won;t have leaves yet (that happens end April or early May) and only the earliest flowers will be out.

The major sight is the Ester parade on Fifth Ave - people parading wearing their best, their worst, their oddest. Many people dress their pets to match. I remember one woman in a bright yellow "southern belle" organdie outfit with a huge picture hat - on which sat her pet iguana - dressed in identical clothing.

traveller1959, Please listen to what nytraveler has posted. That is important information.
Just because they are listed with VRBO does not mean they are legal. VRBO is just a place for people to list their properties, nothing more. The cost per night on those two is so low that I would be suspicous.
All the places I listed are hotels with suites. That is the best way for you to go. You budget of only $100 per night per person is totally unrealistic for NYC.

As for the first rental - it says that renters have access to the entire brownstone - not that there is no one else there - I would assume the owner or tenants are also using the house. Second, although much of Harlem has been gentrified - you are nowhere near major tourist sights and would need to be comfortable in a primarily ethnic neighborhood.

As for the second apartment, again you would be sharing the house with the owners.

And I don;t see a mention of an elevator in either one (very few brownstones have one) - which can mean walking up 4 or fights of stairs with your luggage.

Sorry, Traveler1959 - I should have said "It is my understanding that most short-term apartment rentals IN NYC are illegal and/or scams." We've used VRBO is other cities as well with no problems.

I would also worry that even if advertised on vrbo [or anywhere else as 4 or 5 bedrooms], you may be very surprised [and NOT in a good way] when you actually got to the property to find it doesn't have that many bedrooms. A dining nook may have a bed in it, that doesn't make a bedroom in my book.
Deb

Four points are worth repeating:

1. It's likely an illegal short-term rental, if in fact, it's not an outright scam.

2. 4-5 bedrooms is almost unheard of in NY.

3. $800 a night for 4-5 bedrooms is not a realistic budget for NY, so if it exists, it's likely crappy.

4. The fact that it's listed on VRBO is meaningless, as far as quality goes, since VRBO is not an agency that checks quality.

Since they are not "apartments" but brownstones it's possible that they are privately owned. If so, the owner is not constrained by co-op regulations or landlord rules. But - you would be sharing the house with strangers (either owner or tenants), are not in the most convenient areas, and will have the aggravation of climbing all those stairs.

And they are still illegal, since the city has given them a COO for an apartment, not a hotel - which requires meeting all sorts of additional safety measures.

After looking at the first more closely is does say it has an elevator - but makes it clear that you have "access" to the kitchen - meaning it belongs to the residents but you can also use it.

That is, assuming that the properties actually exist - and aren;t just photos of someone else's building.

In terms of pricing, a genuine 4- or 5-bedroom apartment would be more like $2500 per night if one existed, and they are few and far between in NYC. It sounds to me as if this is a brownstone building (possibly privately owned), but it may not offer the kind of security and comfort that the posters are looking for.

As everyone else has said, virtually all short-term apartment rentals in NYC are illegal. I don't know if I'd go so far as to say they are scams, but since they are illegal, you have absolutely no recourse if something goes wrong. And trying to find alternative lodging for 8 people would cost considerably more than $800 per night, not to mention lost money on an apartment that didn't work out. The price on the two Affinia apartments is a really good one (REALLY GOOD), and since those apartments have full kitchens, I'd jump on that in a minute if it were still available. You don't say which Affinia property offered that type of apartment, but they are all better located than the Harlem apartments.

FYI: Central Park West in the lower 100s can be kind of scary, especially the subway station there, though I'm not sure about that specific block. A friend lived on west 105th Street a few years ago, and I didn't really feel comfortable visiting after dark. But then NYC is much more gentrified these days. However, not sure I'd want to stay in that immediate vicinity.

Check bedandbreakfast.com. There are several places there that call themselves bed and breakfasts that offer large apartments in NYC. IN particular, look at "Homeinthebigcity" property on that site. It is a 5 bedrm, 3.5 bath triplex apartment, sleeps 12 (3 kings, 6 twins). Rents for $600-750 a night.

try Club Quarters good locations and may have what you are looking for.

http://www.clubquarters.com/

I know this apt. is legitimate and the owners live in the building so it should be legal. It's not fancy though but in a nice upper east side residential location. http://www.vrbo.com/115235

If you're willing to commute from outside Manhattan, this house in Maplewood, NJ is supposed to be nice. http://www.vrbo.com/183905

I would NOT RECOMMEND the apartment on 123rd St, that is NOT A GREAT AREA OF THE CITY especially for tourists who don't know the area, and a VERY BAD place at night. To get there you would be taking the subway and walking around that area at night would be iffy at best.

I can say that comfortably because I live just north of that area, and bus through there a couple of times a week.

PLEASE take our advice and try some of the suite hotels in the city. There are so many scams on apartment rents in the city, and apartments with 4 or 5 bedrooms are unheard of. Most apartments are 1,,2 or 3 bedrooms at MOST.

I'd suggest the Affinia Dumont on E 34th ST as a good option for you, it's close to transportation, there are grocery stores and restaurants around the corner, as well as a bakery and bagel shop and breakfast/deli spots. The subway is 2 blocks away and the 34th ST bus stops almost infront of the hotel. I'd suggest calling the hotel and see if you can get a better rate, since you need 2 rooms.

PS I should add, if it were me, I would split up into several suites at a hotel like the beaconhotel.com or the Eastgate Towers. You will likely wind up with more bathrooms, more space and more privacy for those older folks who might prefer some downtime and naps.

With your budget in mind, I'd sugget checking The Ace Hotel, on 6th and 29th St. They have very reasonably priced suites and you can add on rooms if needed. I toured the hotel recently and loved the boutique feel of the hotel. It's not well known yet and has only been opened a couple of months.

Just a few other thoughts:
>I absolutely agree that there are too many outright scams on NYC vacation rentals to take a chance on something unknown.

>If the apt. exists, it may still be an illegal sublet either due to city zoning codes or building rules. Most coops and condos don't allow rentals for shorter than 30 days to protect the other tenants in the building. Rental buildings don't either. If you're asked by a prospective landlord to "just say you're my family" beware. You'll be expected to pay for the rental (and cleaning fees) upfront and if neighbors complain and you should be asked to leave, you're out of luck, not the renter.

>apt. rentals don't provide much flexibility requiring payment upfront and there are typically cleaning charges on top. Remember, you also don't get daily maid service.

Only consider private rentals that you have personal recommendations for. That brings us to the ones I posted about. In both cases I know people who have rented them and have been satisfied. Why then do I still suggest splitting up into several hotel suites?

1) 2 bathrooms shared by 8 adults is too few. YOu may manage at home when everyone's on a different schedule but on vacation, it will be a pain.

2) the apt. in Manhattan has no elevator. It may not sound bad, but dragging suitcases, shopping and groceries up those stairs can get very old very quickly.

3) Some of the bedrooms/bathrooms require walking through someone's elses room to get to them. This is fine for a family with kids maybe, but 8 adults who are paying for a vacation?

It's been common for the Affinia group to run sales on travelzoo.com , travel-ticker.com and their own website. There was recently a sale on the 2 bed/2bath suites at the Eastgate Towers for something like $269/night. I think it's likely you could see something that would greatly reduce your costs. I've seen sales on studio suites for as little as $169/night. If you got 4 of those, you'd have 4 bathrooms and lots of privacy as well as kitchens if you wanted to take turns cooking.

I will add most if not all the hotels SusieQQ listed are suite hotels or have suites. That was her point.

Thank you so much for all your replies.

I take them very seriously, and I am already working on a plan b which will include just a few nights in a NYC hotel and otherwise staying in hotels in the countryside.

I have learned that we should avoid a location on 123rd Street (the first apartment) and, considering the second offer, I have also learned to mistrust an offer which requires a 50% deposit to confirm the reservation. (This smells for scam, right?)

However, two questions still remain:

1) Some of you say that there are outright scams on NYC vacation rentals and that VRBO does not check the quality of offers. However, VRBO or rather the parent company Homeaway offers a guarantee against fraud. What do you think about this guarantee? It costs just 59$ and seems to offer 100% protection.

http://guarantee.homeaway.com/

2) There must be a market for non-fraud rentals, because there some interesting offers on VRBO (at very reasonable rates) which are already booked (a scam would take my money anyway). In some of these cases, a family has bought a brownstone and has temporarily moved to another location, and since they intend to come back, they lease the brownstone as a short-time rental. This should be legal - or is it not?

Thank you all for your care. How are preventing us from a possibly ruined vacation.

traveller, yes, vrbo offers protection against fraud. So if the apartment doesn't exist or is double-booked, etc., you would get your money back. But that won't get you a place to stay for 8 people in NY, just a headache. (By the way, I've used vrbo very successfully in other locations, but I wouldn't even consider it in NY).

As for the brownstone, I guess it depends how long each "short-term" rental is for and how often they do this. Again, they are not licensed for transient occupancy (if they were, you'd have to pay about 16% tax on top of the charge - do they charge this?)

>>>By the way, I've used vrbo very successfully in other locations, but I wouldn't even consider it in NY<<<

This sounds really convincing. Thank you for your clear words.

We loved our VRBO rentals in other American cities, but if that is not advisable in NYC, we will probably go into hotel rooms. BTW, I have found a hotel with indoor pool which offers nice-looking rooms at 250$ per night including continental breakfast (Hotel Grace).

emd3 recommends this property:

>>>Check bedandbreakfast.com. There are several places there that call themselves bed and breakfasts that offer large apartments in NYC. IN particular, look at "Homeinthebigcity" property on that site. It is a 5 bedrm, 3.5 bath triplex apartment, sleeps 12 (3 kings, 6 twins). Rents for $600-750 a night.<<<

It is located on 125 W. 136th Street. Is THIS a safe address? We do not mind travelling a few minutes into downtown, but we would mind a neighborhood which is not safe.

Take a look on www.hotwire.com also, or if you are up to it, bid at www.priceline.com.

At least look at www.betterbidding.com to see what the priceline and hotwire hotels that have been won/bought for your dates are.

It looks like the beekman towers is offered at hotwire for $202/night. You can decipher the possible names of the hotels by using the lists at www.betterbidding.com.

1) The issue of renting an apt. is not about vrbo or any other particular website. It's about the folks who prey on unsuspecting visitors who can advertise on any website. The guarantee is not worth anything. Read the fine print. By the time they get finished listing what's not covered, you have no guarantee and you still have no place to stay. http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g60763-i5-k1694796-HomeAway_guarantee-New_York_City_New_York.html

2)There's a huge market for vacation rentals b/c many people like you don't realize the dangers and don't realize they're not kosher in NYC. What appear to be reasonable rates are either in marginal areas, marginal buildings, not as advertised or downright scams. In some cases bait and switch may be used. (Oh that one's not available for your dates but I have a much nicer one. Oh, btw, that one is also more expensive).

If someone owns an entire brownstone and chooses to rent it out while they're away, I suppose in certain instances it might be legal but people who own an entire building are not likely to rent to strangers for an affordable sum unless the place is lacking in location or amenities or both.

If you're seriously considering hotels "in the countryside" (you do realize there's no "countryside" very close to Manhattan?) you should seriously consider renting that house in Maplewood for part of the time and staying in Manhattan for the other part. If you stay "in the countryside" you'll need to rent cars.

You might also check The Inn on 23rd. This is a comfortable B&B. We have stayed there several times and often are staying amidst families. There is a library which is comfortable for big group seating at breakfast.

And going to the calendar of wins at betterbidding, you can see that many 4* hotels are being won under $115.

good luck.

( Don't forget that when staying outside Manhattan you must calculate additional travel expenses for your group).

If you want a B&B, look at a very nice one located on W147th St. It is on a quiet tree line, national landmark street. It's the Harlem Landmark Inn. There are 2 subway lines around the corner which will get you to midtown in 20 minutes or less. The block is safer than 136th ST and closer to the subway.

Since you are new to New York, I still say STAY DOWNTOWN (below 96th St) it will be easier for you to get around, you won't be wondering in any areas that are unsafe at night, and you will be a bit less likely to have problems.

From emd3's recommendation, I found this one:

http://www.bedandbreakfast.com/new-york-manhattan-aaccommodationsregistry.html

Do you think this is o.k.?

As previously state, if any rental, apartment or brownstone, does not ask you to pay 16% tax on top of the charge they are not licensed for transient occupancy. You just might get away with renting such a place, but then again you might not. Neighbors have been known to report such rentals to the authorities which could result in you getting kicked out.

Read that web site carefully. You can rent any number of bedrooms and breakfast is served in the kichen/dining area between 8 and 10. There is also a living/common room. What does all that mean? To me it means that it is a shared apartment.

I have used bedandbreakfast.com many times w/success in other places, but never for NYC. So please don't think I was specifically recommending them for NYC. I happened to be looking on their website over the weekend because someone gave me a (nice large) gift certificate to use on that website and I have several trips to NYC coming up in the next few months. So I was looking at the NYC offerings myself on that website, and I recalled that one large place when I read your post.

A couple of points:

A family that owns a brownstone - which even in a marginal area is worth several million dollars is extremely unlikely to want to rent it to random strangers for a few nights at a time for a minimal amount of money. They might rent it longer term - but would want full information on the people, their income, references and at least 2 months deposit in advance. People living in it who have lost their incomes and desperate for cash might do so.

Second - the "countryside" is at least 1.5 hours from the city - if not more. Closer than that is suburbs (the NY greater metro area is almost 20 million people) and neither is doable without rental cars.

Can I ask something while we are on this topic? While I was checking bedandbreakfast.coms's website I noticed places in Jersey City, Newark, Brooklyn, and Staten Island It is illegal to rent in those places like it is in Manhattan?

Staten Island and Brooklyn are part of New York City. Staten Island is all residential and mostly homes with a few apartment buildings and condos. Newark, would take you more time and ALOT more money to get in and out of Manhattan. Jersey City, is closer to transportation to and from Manhattan, but again, you will spend alot of time getting to the Path Train and into the city.

Trust us, most of the New York experts on this site, LIVE IN the city.

I am north of Harlem in Hamilton Heights, one of the fastest genrifying areas of the city, which is why I recommended the Harlem Landmark Guest House. There is a website for information and rates, and would work in your budget. Basically you could rent the whole house within your budget. I toured the Inn not long ago and thought it was nicely done, lovely rooms, most with private bathrooms. bathrooms. There's also a living room and dining room.

"I noticed places in Jersey City, Newark, Brooklyn, and Staten Island It is illegal to rent in those places like it is in Manhattan?"

It is probably illegal to rent the same type of spaces that it is illegal to rent in Manhattan. The majority of apartments in Manhattan are in multiple-family buildings that fall into four categories:
1-rental apartments where residents leases from a landlord
2-cooperative apartments where residents owns "shares" in the building corporation
3-condominium apartments where resident/owner owns apartment
4-apartment occupied by the owner of the building (the least common situation)

In the case of 1, 2, and 3, the residents have signed an agreement/lease/proprietary lease that heavily restricts the subleasing of their apartment, making it impossible to sublet for a few days at a time. They can't sublease at all without getting the approval of the landlord or coop or condo board.

In the case of 4, if it's a very small building, the owner of the building can rent their space however they'd like.

I would expect the same restrictions to be placed on situations 1, 2, and 3 in the suburbs.

As others have said, many of the apartments on VRBO may be genuine offers by someone who is not attempting a scam, but technically they may not be legal rentals. Everything might go well--but If something goes wrong, you will have 3 generations, 8 adults, standing on a NYC street wondering what to do. I wouldn't take that chance with my grandma.

Have y ou ever heard the expression "If it sounds too good to be true..."

I offer advice many times on Boston to unsuspecting travelers who cringe at the high cost of genuine decent accomodations in convenient areas of Boston - it is a similar situation for NY. Please listen to the above NY locals who know what they are talking about. You, as a visitor, are not going to find some true "deal" that no one else has ever thought of or located - no matter how much research you do. Millions of people visit NYC every year - and the reason hotels charge so much is that they can - if there were low cost solutions that actually worked, people would use them and hotels would have to charge less.

Since you are the organizer of this, imagine arriving at a place with your 3 generations and finding the place non-existent, illegal, dangerous, sketchy, or otherwise unacceptable.

You can get 4 rooms at a moderate hotel and still be in your budget (for example, the LaQuinta in Manhattan). That would give you 4 bathrooms, a much better location, free breakfast for everyone, near a subway station and just a much better NYC experience for your large group - IMO anyway.

I'd choose 4 rooms at a regular hotel or one of the suite hotel options listed above rather the vrbo.com options for NYC.

Starrs has it right. The original premise is so unrealistic as to be laughable.

I just want to point out to the OP that it is very unlikely that you could get a Priceline room or a deal for next APRIL, which is the high season for travel to NYC. I suspect (assuming the economy improves) that prices in NYC will be higher by then.

If you can get the B&B that travelbuff recommends, that would be a really good deal and not a horrible commute.

Having said that I'm not in complete agreement with everyone here. If you can find a hotel on a subway line in either Brooklyn or Queens, it could be much cheaper than a similar place in Manhattan. And if you can get a hotel near a PATH station in Jersey City, Pavonia/Newport, or Journal Square in NJ, that would not be a horrible commute either. The Hyatt in Jersey City looks very nice, and it's near a (fairly expensive) ferry service that brings you directly across the river into Manhattan.

What I would avoid are rooms in the Secaucus/Meadowlands area of NJ. If you have to take buses, then the cost for 8 people is going to be fairly high every time you come into Manhattan (probably more like $8 to $10 round-trip per person).

But I hope you've backed off completely on the idea of an apartment rental. They just aren't a good idea in NYC, especially with that many people. It would be virtually impossible to find a well-priced hotel alternative in case something went wrong.

Did you check Radio City Apartments? Good location in Midtown, reasonable rates, real apartments. You could reserve several apartments there or in one of the Affinia suite properties and always change later if you find something better or cheaper.

Doug_S.. if you check the winning bid dates right now for that time of the month you will be surprised. Might be worth a try for some people, anyway.

lincasanova, can they do a bid for 4 rooms on Priceline?

yes

You also might look into the Sheraton Lincoln Harbor (Weehawken, NJ). It is right across the Hudson River from midtown, and a ferry (NY Waterway, Lincoln Harbor Port Ferry) right outside the door of the hotel(literally) goes to W. 39th st. Midtown every 15 min. on weekdays and takes 8 minutes to cross the river. Courtesy buses are available on the NYC side of that ferry to various popular NYC locations.

In the late night hours and on weekends when that ferry doesn't run late at night, the hotel has a free shuttle to and from another ferry a few min. away (NY Waterway Port Imperial Port Ferry, .5 miles from the hotel). Ditto the free buses on the NYC side of the ferry.

Rates are very reasonable at that hotel and it is nice, the rooms have small kitchens and living areas aside from the sleeping area. I stayed there this summer (2 dble beds and a sleep sofa for $99). I checked your dates 4/1 thru 4/11 and there are rms w/2 double beds and a dble sleep sofa or King and dble sleep sofa for $200.10 INCLUSIVE OF TAXES. Good deal.

You get a break on the ferry cost if you buy a pass for 10 rides. It is about $6 a ride from those terminals to midtown 39th st. with the price break for the 10 ride deal. You can also get to downtown NYC from the Port Imperial ferry.

http://www.starwoodhotels.com/sheraton/search/hotel_detail.html?propertyID=1177

http://www.nywaterway.com/Home/RidetheFerry/SchedulesRoutes/ViewSchedule/tabid/133/Default.aspx?ID=99

http://www.nywaterway.com/Home/RidetheFerry/SchedulesRoutes/InteractiveFerryMap/tabid/132/Default.aspx

http://www.nywaterway.com/Home/RidetheFerry/SchedulesRoutes/InteractiveFerryMap/tabid/132/Default.aspx

Getting back to your Affinia possibilty, If you book a 2 bedroom and a 1 bedroom that would probably be enough to sleep 8 and would be closer to your budget. I've seen 1 bedrooms at the Shelburne (an Affinia hotel) and some of the 1 bedrooms have 2 queen beds in the bedroom plus a sofa bed in the living room, so it could easily sleep 4 or 5 if people are willing to share a bed. They also have kitchens and dining areas.

You may want to call Affinia directly, and tell them your circumstance. They may be able to put together a comfortable combination of suites.

I just want to add, I don't recommend staying anywhere north of the 90s. It may not be a comfortable neighborhood for an out-of-towner. There are some decent area there, but it could be hit and miss, and if you aren't used to NYC in general, it may not ne comfortable in any case.

If you stay outside of Manhattan you also have to be careful with neighborhoods and you need to cnsider the cost, convenience and time involved with commuting back and forth.

If you're considering staying outside Manhattan, Collectionofresidences.com is a good option in Woodside Queens.

The suggestion of a place in Brooklyn/Queens is interesting, except reading "3 generations" I am wondering about the stamina of the oldest generation. It is a long subway ride, and can be an involved one with lots of walking and steps. Just one more thing to think about.
I still say Starrs 4 rooms--and the accompanying baths--in Manhattan is the answer.

I really hope the OP will come back and tell us what they decide to do and where they stay !

Of course I am back - such a wealth of information in incredible!

With a tear in my eye, I am going to give up the idea to rent an apartment - something which has worked out so beautifully in other cities.

It will be the first - and maybe the last - trip to America for my parents and we will show them NYC (of course), but also Washington D.C. and something of the countryside, maybe the Amish region and/or something along the Hudson river (I have already read the threads here in this forum).

Our original idea was to stay for the whole period of 11 days in an apartment and do day trips by train from there.

But after learning that you can rent apartments everywhere via VRBO but not in NYC, we will probably stay for four or five nights in a New York hotel and then rent a car and drive through the countryside.

The Priceline tip is invaluable. There have been wins of the Roosevelt Hotel at 110$ per night for a double room. That makes 440$ for eight people per night - hard to beat. I will also check the Sheraton. And I also check the recommended suite hotels.

Give me two or three days time, and I will return and tell you what we will have done.

In the meantime, any other tip is greatly appreciated. You are so helpful, Fodorites, as always. Thank you.

The question is whether you could get 4 rooms.

traveller1959,

Thanks for the update.

"Daytrips" from New York City to Washington DC and the Amish region would be too far to do well in a day. Parts of the Hudson River Valley are possible from New York City, but with 8 people a mini-van would be better to really see the area.

Breaking your trip as you now propose in a better idea. Your family will get the vibe of the city for a good number of days, and then experience some countryside and other sights.

I don't mean to make you crazy, but winning a Priceline bid for 4 rooms in the same hotel at Easter time for more than a night or two at a time is really unlikely and unrealistic. Even when people are just looking for 1 room we advise booking a backup reservation that can be canceled should bidding not work.

While it's true that renting an apartment large enough for 8 of you in Manhattan is usually not possible and often not legal, all the places I've mentioned:

In Manhattan
http://www.vrbo.com/115235

In Maplewood
http://www.vrbo.com/183905

and in Queens
Collectionofresidences.com

are perfectly legitimate and to my knowledge legal. They're all private homes, not apartments. In the case of the one in Manhattan, the owners live in the building.

I also agree that most of the places you listed as side trips are not easily done in a day. By staying in other places you can reduce cost since nowhere is as pricey as Manhattan. Both the place in Manhattan and the house in Maplewood, NJ only rent for a minimum of a week. But you could rent the townhouse in Woodside Queens for say 5 days to explore NYC and then rent a van and do some touring around for the rest of the time. Washington definitely requires more than a daytrip. Here's a link from Tripadvisor that started a year ago in which the Collection of Residences were discussed, scouted and some folks posted who'd stayed there.
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g60763-i5-k1783586-Collection_of_residences_Woodside_Anyone_stayed_there-New_York_C

Don't rule out the B&B option. Several years ago we searched for a house/apartment in a city (notNYC) noticed some B&B's, called and e-mailed the owner, rented every room, and the family had full reign of the place. We were able to visit in the living area and kitchen, we negotiated the use of the kitchen with the owner, instead of them providing breakfast, and had a wonderful time. There may be such a place in NYC that will allow the family to have a common area in which to eat and congregate. Just a thought... Good luck with whatever option you choose.

This is now our plan b - we will rent a fullsize van (12seater) for us 8 and leave the city after a few days:

- 4 days in New York City
- 2 days in Hudson Valley to visit some mansions, the Roosevelt Library, the CIA (very important to us), the DIAeacon and to show my parents a bit of small-town life in the USA - overnight stays close to the CIA (dinner)
- 1 day driving from Hyde Park to Washington D.C. with a break in Lancaster
- 2.5 days in Washington D.C.
- 0.5 day driving to Newark, overnight in Newark, spending the morning in Newark and then boarding the transatlantic flight back home

We still got no response from VRBO 115235, but the Sheraton Lincoln Harbour is tempting - they offer rooms at 149$ for that period. 3 rooms will be sufficient, so the total count would be 447$ - including an indoor pool!

As long as you realize that a 12-seat van will cost about $250 per day when rented in Manhattan. Rent in NJ to save a considerable amount of money.

Trying to visit NYC and staying in NJ is not a great idea. The cost of getting into and out of the City daily will offset any savings. Also you will eat up alot of your visit just waiting for buses to get into the city and getting back to the Port Authority or taking the Path train back and forth.

The suggestion I made of the Harlem Landmark Guest House, would be just like your idea of an apartment. You would be renting most of the brownstone for the family. The Inn is actually 2 brownstones so they usually have rooms available, and booking in advance you would be able to guarantee your needs.

The Rooselvelt Hotel is also a good idea, they have suites that you might look into as well as single rooms, maybe a suite and room can be combined.

The Ace Hotel also would have the flexibility to accomodate a family, they have suites and rooms with bunk beds and the price is right.
www.acehotel.com.

travelbuff, just fyi: They don't have to use the trains at Sheraton Lincoln Harbor. The hotel uses ferries to get into Manhattan. One is outside the door of the hotel and goes to 39th St. (or downtown) The other is .5 miles from the hotel w/free shuttle every 15 min. to and from the hotel. Ferries are 8 min and cost $6 each way. Btwn the two ferries you can get into/out of Manhattan from 6 am til 1 am the next morning. Free buses on the NYC side at both terminals take you to many tourist spots in NYC. That is why I stayed there on my last trip to NYC. It worked out great, not a hitch in the process as long as we knew the ferry and hotel shuttle scheduel and they gave us a printout of those at the front desk . The hotel was full of people doing the same thing.

The reason travelbuff is giving a warning about the cost of transportation into Manhattan from NJ is precisely the cost you have outlined. Ferries are actually more expensive than NJ Transit buses and trains. It's going to cost the posters $116 each day (2 $6 tickets for 8 adults) just for round-trip transportation into the city if they stay in NJ on the ferry route. While the ferry bus does go some places in Midtown, it doesn't go everywhere, and the schedules aren't that great. So the OP will probably need to buy at least 2 subway/bus rides per person per day at a total of $4.50 per person (another $40 per day at a minimum, and possibly more).

Is that a good deal? It makes Manhattan look better by comparison.

They'd still probably need the subway fare regardless of whether or not they stay in Manhattan, but the $116 ferry fare is a consideration. And if there are some in the group that aren't big walkers, a cab (2 for the entire group) may be needed to/from the ferry as well.

Priceline is risky. Rooms are only guaranteed for 2 people and many only have 1 bed. In this situation I don't think I'd bother.

I'd book the NJ hotel, provided it can be cancelled if something better comes along. I'd also plug your dates into Kayak and see what is available in Manhattan.

I just saw the part about the free shuttles from the ferry terminal, so I guess the possible need of a cab, is not an issue.

That being said though, you can pay about $40/night more for a room in Manhattan and it would be about the same value. I glanced at Kayak, and there are some places with rooms for about $200. Did that $149 deal included taxes?

Staying in NJ for that group is jsut not practical. A visit to NYC is never ever going to be cheap. It can be done in an economical way, but being a long distance from your hotel in a big city is "madness".
The ferry cost alone makes a room in the city more affordable.

There's a new hotel that just opened a few months ago that's getting some very good reviews. The MAve hotel (www.themavehotel.com). It's at a good locations as far as transportation (near several subway and bus lines), dining (many restaurants in chelsea), shopping, and there's even a very nice park right there (Madison Square Green, which has recently been renovated and houses the Shake Shack). I see rates at about $199 for April '09. This looks liek a nice deal.

To add to my last post, it also includes breakfast which would be another nice savings.

Finally, we have booked accomodation in NYC!!!

With the help of you Fodorites, I learnt some lessons about booking accomodation in NYC.

Firstly, you were very convincing in discouraging me from booking a rental apartment. In fact, most of the VRBO offers looked dubious, and they were not located well.

Secondly, I had email contact with the owners of
http://www.vrbo.com/115235. This offer appears serious, but one of the bedrooms has just a "full bed" which would not be suitable for my 75+ parents. Hence, this apartment can accomodate 7 adults maximum, not 8, as advertised.

Thirdly, I checked bed & breakfast. Some problem as above - the rooms and beds are tiny.

Fourthly, I checked half a dozen suite hotels, including Affinia, Radio City Apartments etc. To be frank, I found these accomodation too expensive regarding the quality they offer.

Fifthly, I checked the Sheraton Lincoln Harbour. I came very close to booking there. The rates were tempting: 149$ for a suite for 2, and 199$ for a suite for 4. The Tripadvisor reviews were somewhat mixed - many complained about the hotel's standard. Finally, we decided against the Sheraton because you are simply not in the City. Traffic connections are good, but you have not the option to walk just around the corner.

Finally, I tried something new. I had never dared to book with Priceline or Hotwire before, but you encouraged me to play around a bit.

Lincasanova's link to www.betterbidding.com was priceless. I found out that there was a chance to get the Roosevelt Hotel at 110$ with Priceline, but I prefered Hotwire, because it provides more information about the offers.

They offered a 4-star hotel near Central Park at 166$. I checked betterbidding and found out it could be the Empire, checked the hotel's website and TA reviews (mixed, of course) - and booked. And what did I get? The Empire. The hotel even has a pool, although a tiny one. Even if the pool should not be usable, it is still a good deal.

I consider 4 double rooms at 166$ each a great value - regarding that it is NYC and it is right over Easter.

This was the most cumbersome process of hotel selection in my life (o.k. we are 8 persons) and I write this for future posters who might find this thread and the most valuable information which was provided by many posters.

Our next problem is to rent a car for 8 persons. In Europe, every car rental agency offers 9-seater vans, but in USA, it is surprisingly difficult to rent a van for 8 persons with luggage. The only agency which seems to offer a 15-seater (!) at EWR appears to be USave.

Any information about another car rental agency which might offer something smaller (e.g. a 12-seater) will be greatly appreciated.

As always, thank you so much for your invaluable help.

Hey.. great! Congratulations.! That website is so helpful.

And if you want to help other posters, you can go back to betterbidding, register and post your winnng hotwire bid for those dates . That way it can be posted on the calendar of wins, and will help others decipher the hotels offered.

By linking to Hotwire THROUGH their website link you help support them. I can't do enough for them as I have planned so many family and friends' trips and saved so much money on hotels, making our vacations so much more affordable.

Have a wonderful trip. You have made a good decision.

If you have two drivers, perhaps two cars will be a better choice all around, for price and flexibility.

You can do priceline/hotwire for cars, too! But it is good to check out all the car discount codes first. Google and you will find several websites offering valid codes.

If you think the hotel search was tedious.. wait til you do the car!

Is that the Empire on 63rd across from Lincoln Center? If so... you're in a wonderful spot. Friends stayed at the Empire before it was renovated and found it just fine. Have a wonderful trip.

I posted on betterbidding!

so why do you need a car if you are staying in the City? Are you looking for airport transfers, or plan to use the car during your stay?

I'm not sure what your concern is about a full bed. That is a double and the kind you will find in many hotel rooms. Priceline guarantees you a room for 2 people - but not a queen or king size bed - and in many hotels you won;t get them. It looks like the Empire has only queen beds - but no way does Priceline guarantee that.


And a car is worse than useless in New york - expensive and no place to park it so you spend $50 or more a night on garaging (a large van like that is extra and some garages won;t take them at all).

And Washington DC isn't a day trip - driving alone would be more than 8 hours. Neither is the Amish area - you would have to make them overnight trips. You could take a day trip up the Hudson but the beginning of April is still very early spring - and the trees won;t be in leaf yet- nor will many of the flowers be out. It would be an interesting visit - but the countryside won;t be very pretty yet with the trees bare.

Here is the OP's plan after leaving NYC. This why he wants a van:

"- 2 days in Hudson Valley to visit some mansions, the Roosevelt Library, the CIA (very important to us), the DIAeacon and to show my parents a bit of small-town life in the USA - overnight stays close to the CIA (dinner)
- 1 day driving from Hyde Park to Washington D.C. with a break in Lancaster
- 2.5 days in Washington D.C.
- 0.5 day driving to Newark, overnight in Newark, spending the morning in Newark and then boarding the transatlantic flight back home"

you can do priceline for newark hotels too..

good luck.

nytraveler.. she went to hotwire, and was able to almost certainly identify the hotel before purchasing ( through its amenities) and was correct.. so it was less opaque than priceline in this case.

This thread has grown pretty long...

Our original idea was to rent a large apartment for the whole 10-day duration of our stay. We have done that in other U.S. cities, and we liked it very much - some immersion into real city life, buying groceries, cooking on our own with those exotic products which are typical for America etc. Usually, this is the most economic way of staying in an American city, because you save expenses for restaurants etc.

Our idea was to to some daytrips by train from NYC. Washington D.C. seemed doable with a 2:52 train ride in the morning and a return in the afternoon. Also, Hudson Valley seemed doable by train.

However, since you convinced me not to rent an apartment in NYC (and since I had carefully read the fine print of the offers), we dropped our original idea completely and developed a more conventional plan b, with an itenerary that includes NYC, the Capital, small town USA and rural USA.

Unfortunately, we do not have many drivers - with four seniors and two minors, so we have to rent a van which can accomodate 8 persons. Maybe an 8-seater SUV will also do (although space for luggage will be restricted). That's the next problem I am workin on - but I have found at least one offer at USave.

Maybe we will rent an apartment for three nights in D.C. - I have already found some interesting offers on VRBO (unless you tell me that short-term leases are illegal there, too).

You are truly a wonderful poster and deserve a great trip to the Eastern US. You obviously read and listened to advice of all 79 responses - even when we disagreed with your plan. You calmly explained why some of our ideas would not work for you. You came back multiple times to the post to see what we were saying.

And now it seems like you have booked a good situation for you and your family. I hope you have a wonderful trip. As far as Washington, that city is more used to transiet residents and visitors - so an apartment might be an option. However, I consider it unlikely - cherry blossom time in the city and spring is popular. However, there are many suite-style hotels where you should be able to get perhaps 2 suites, with kitchen facilities, and multiple bathrooms. Try searching here for Washington, DC lodging, google suite hotels in Washington, or start a new thread with Washington in the title - if you can possibly bear the thought of another 79 responses.

Congratulations on resolving the hotel issue. I wouldn't get too excited about the pool. It's an outdoor pool and not likely to be open in April.

I've never heard of USave so I would be very careful and check that co. online. I'm sorry I don't remember where you come from (or maybe you never said) but if outside the US, insurance can almost double the price of a rental. Given that you need such a big vehicle, this can be a big problem. whizzcarrental.com (based in the UK) is one co. I know who includes all insurance in their price quote. I know Americans and Brits who've used them.

I'm by no means a car expert but I don't know of ANY vehicle available in the US that would seat 8 people plus ANY luggage. Even the SUVs that claim they seat 8 really seat 7 and no room would be left for any luggage. If you find a vehicle, it's likely to be very expensive. You'd be better with 2 vehicles. I would start a new thread if you want help on finding a rental and another on a road trip plan.

Agree with mclaurie about the vehicle. Do not rent anything called an 8-passenger vehicle. There is no chance it will fit luggage plus 8 people - and even if no one had luggage, the 8 people would be squashed like sardines in a can. If you are concerned about 75 year olds being comfortable in a double bed, they would certainly not be comfortable in such a vehicle.

Renting 2 vehicles also is going to be problematic since you mention only having 2 real drivers. Therefore, your only real option is to rent a real van - a 12-16 passenger vehicle. Not all companies rent these and I have no clue as to what the availability would be to an international renter - not to mention cost of insurance.

Public transportation is not an option to do Hudson Valley trip - although it probably should be considered for the NY-Washington, DC and Washington-Newark portions of the trip.

Gail, I'm just wondering why renting two cars is a problem with only two drivers? We rent all the time and my husband does 100% of the driving when we travel. So I don't think it's impossible.

Agree tht renting 2 cars is much better than having to rent a small bus. ESp since some of the roads in the areas you'l be traveling - called Parkways - are for passenger cars only - no large vehicles allowed. So renting some gigantc thing would limit your travel options to superhighways rather than some of the prettier, less-traveled roads.

And none of the trips you're talking about are lengthy - not like a 12 hour drive or anything. They should be esily done by one driver in a short day.

Because OP mentioned number of drivers as being reason they wanted one vehicle. If it were me I would rent 2 vehicles, but everyone might not agree. Sometimes "togetherness" is more important than other factors - although again, for me, I would have had more than enough generational bonding to want to escape into separate vehicles.

Here is my update on renting a van for us eight. It might be helpful for others travelling in a larger party.

In fact, most of the major rental car companies have 12-seater-passenger vans in their vehicle lists, but these cars are not available in New York or Newark.

After an internet research, I found USave which offered a 12-seater van. I called them and they appeared not very organized. Thankfully, they did not reply to my email, because I read many negative reviews about them and eventually dropped them.

I did a little more research and found Image Rent a Car which seems to be affiliated to the Hilton hotel chain.

www.imagerentacar.com

They offer all kinds of vans, and we finally reserved a 12-seater Ford E-350 minivan at less than $1,100 per week - with delivery to our hotel in Manhattan and drop-off at Newark Interntl. Airport. I will check the insurance topic, because I have a rental car insurance included in the insurance package of my credit card which already covers most risks.

Image Car Rental appear to be very cautious - even wanted that I mailed them pictures of my credit card, drivers license and even passport.

Why we did not rent two cars:

Our party includes 4 seniors who do not want to drive on a foreign continent, and 2 20-year-olds who are not allowed to drive rental cars. That leaves DW and me as drivers - and no backup driver in case of illness. Furthermore, DW did not like the idea of driving through NYC in separate cars.

And it is more fun to share a minivan with 8 people. Therefore the van.

You certainly have given a very clear, concise explanation of your trip planning process and results for many to take advantage of.

Thank you!

Reviews for this co. I found online (Yelp and insiderpages) are mostly very good!!

You should check CAREFULLY liability on insurance from your credit card. Most offer some but not all but it may not cover such a large vehicle in a foreign country. I hope you won't have to park this vehicle in Manhattan as many garages won't take them. You will have to park it I gather in Washington so check in advance how you'll handle that.

Just a heads up that a good friend visiting last week stayed at the Empire hotel and was initially given a room on the top floor. In the middle of the night the bum bum bum from the club on the roof became too annoying and they were ultimately moved to a lower floor away from the noise. This may not be open in early April as I'm not sure it's enclosed. They enjoyed the hotel otherwise.

You need to check very carefully about garaging options n DC. A vehicle that large will take at least 2 spaces and will probably be charged double - if the facility can take it at all. (Many have low roofs and can't take even the largest SUVs.) I would expect garaging to be at least $80 per night or so - but do get the complete dimensions of the vehicle - including height to be sure you have someplace to put it in dc.

Thank you all for additional advice. Here is the rest of our trip:

We will get our vehicle when we will be leaving NYC. We will drive along the Hudson Valley. I have booked double rooms in the Holiday Inn Express in Poughkeepsie - via Hotwire at $69 per night including cont. breakfast.

After three nights in Hudson Valley, we will drive toward Washington DC. We will rent a magnificent house in Bethesda (I know, it is far from Washington, but we have time and the house IS fantastic for a most reasonable rate.) We will have free parking at the house and can take the Metro into downtown Washington. (I had started another thread about that and got good advice.)

After three nights there, we will drive to Newark to spend our last night preferably in downtown in order to have dinner at Ferry St. and visit Newark museum next morning before we board our transatlantic flight back home.

Planning a trip is part of the fun of travelling - I really enjoy it.

Just so you're aware there are a lot of areas of Newark that you don;t want to go near - be very careful in picking a hotel and getting their advice as to where you can go and how you should get there.

Yes, downtown Newark is not necessarily a good idea.

they have already booked their hotel on hotwire .. the empire.

Yes, but they're planning on spending the last night before departing EWR in Newark and have mentioned staying downtown.
"After three nights there, we will drive to Newark to spend our last night preferably in downtown in order to have dinner at Ferry St. and visit Newark museum next morning before we board our transatlantic flight back home."

oh.. sorry.. hadn't re-read it all! thanks for pointing that out.