You're not going to get flamed, but this is a no-brainer IMO. UK, UK, and UK!

To be fair, we're not huge fans of Disney - once was enough (and it's not cheap).

London would be delightful at Christmas - though you'd need to be prepared of course for cool, wet weather. Regardless, London is one of our favorite cities so this wouldn't be a hard choice for us. I'd also choose it since you've just been to Disney and some of your family has never been to UK.

That tour seems exhausting though. 4 cities in 5 days! You could easily stay in London the whole time and do it on your own, which would also costs less than the tour. London is very easy to get around and there is plenty to keep you busy the entire time. Even a day trip to York would be easy to do on your own.

We probably could do London for 5 or 6 days for that (although not with two hotel rooms, I don't think), and when you factor in the amount of transport, plus 2 dinners, and a couple of admissions and sight-seeing tours, the tour starts to look like a good value, if a very fast pace and a lot of time on the bus. Breakfasts are also included, but I probably wouldn't book anything that didn't include it. We also do like tours for the ease and the structure, and some of the idea was to see if a multi-day tour (we've only taken day ones as a family) works for us, or if we get restless.

I am leaning away from Disney a little bit, much as we love it, since we have been recently. London in December certainly should be fine for us, since we live in Pennsylvania, and while Scotland and the North of England are probably damper, I wouldn't think that they're any colder than we're used to. Of course, you can always sell me on Florida in the wintertime.

Makes sense as long as you've done the economic comparisons and don't mind the pace (at least you're not doing the driving). One alternative is to rent an apt. Usually is cheaper than hotels and easy to fix some meals to reduce some costs - vrbo.com is usually a good source. My folks liked to do tours just because they didn't want to deal with the hassle sometimes of doing it on your own.

Good luck.

Makes sense as long as you've done the economic comparisons and don't mind the pace (at least you're not doing the driving). One alternative is to rent an apt. Usually is cheaper than hotels and easy to fix some meals to reduce some costs - vrbo.com is usually a good source. My folks liked to do tours just because they didn't want to deal with the hassle sometimes of doing it on your own.

Good luck.

Thanks. We'll see how it goes!

For me, neither seems like a very good idea. If you want to see a magical holiday setting, perhaps you could go to Germany or Hungary and enjoy the Christmas markets. Or even Vienna. The idea of a bus tour of England in the dead of winter just doesn't appeal to me in the slightest, although I do like the UK. With very little time on the ground, you'd hardly have time to see anything.

So if it's a choice between these two, I choose Disney. But I think you can do better.

Well, I certainly wouldn't choose Disney, but one trip there was more than enough for me. London is my favorite European big city (full disclosure - I grew up in the UK), but I saw the Christmas decorations last year and was a bit disappointed. I agree with Doug that Central Europe might be a better bet. I suppose you could even look at a river (Danube) cruise if you're really opposed to going independently.

BTW - that itinerary for the UK is crazy, and would be better done by train. The apt. suggestion, or a B&B, is the way to go to keep costs down in London - or check the dates for student residences - e.g. www.lsevacations.co.uk . Check the Europe board here for more suggestions.

I don't know what tour company you were looking at but I agree with Doug that southern Germany and Austria are great at holiday time.
I went 2 years ago on a Globus trip for a week to Munich, Salzberg and Vienna and it was magical.
I am thinking of one of their trips to Berlin, Prague and Budapest this December.
Check out one of their winter catalogs which have the Chrismas market tours or check their website.
they are a little more than your UK trip but I think you would really enjoy that area in December. If I had to pick from your choices I would pick the UK. I have been to all those cities just not in winter.

The Christmas markets of Central Europe were on the table at one point, and have been removed (at least for the moment), due to being a little more expensive and complicated. That part of the world is also definite for 2013 (although I know life interferes sometimes).

I do realize that the itinerary is a little batty, and I would never attempt it on my own, even by train, in five days, but I assume the tour company (Globus) knows what it is doing, and it thinks it's feasible. They do describe it as "on the go", and I would think that is accurate. If we go, I don't think we'll have any trouble sleeping those nights!

I'm sure we could keep busy in London for a week, but cooking our own meals in a rental apt. has limited appeal, and DH in particular wants to see what he calls "other stuff" and would probably be actively disappointed if there were no long bus trips involved. I do have a little concern about feeling that we have blown our entire vacation fund to be cold and wet for a week, rather than warm and dry in Disney.

We're still torn. DH says he really doesn't know, DS claims it's an absolutely impossible decision, and I'm leaning a little more towards the bus tour, but only a little.

If I had that choice. Easy, it would be Europe. Reason being, the crowds at Disney at Christmas are crazy. You can count on standing in one line for a good hour or two. I live in FL, have been there many times, and find that they actually "pack them in beyond capacity". That is quoted from a security guard at Disney.

I love London. However, I have to agree to see some great Christmas markets, Vienna and Budapest are amazing. Budapest is a very cheap place to stay, Vienna can be done via train from there for about $40 r/t.

I should clarify, we are looking at Disney in early or mid-December, not actually for Christmas, not wishing to be squished for our entire vacation. UK is probably also the second week of December, as we really don't want to be away for the actual holiday.

When I can't decide something, I flip a coin. If I'm happy with the result, that's the right one, and if I'm unhappy I know the other one is right.

We may end up doing that. At least we have some time.

Are you in the U.S.?

Personally I wouldn't spend the time & money going all the way to Europe for only a 5 night/7 day trip. I'd do Disney and save Europe for when you have at least 10 days (better yet 2-3 weeks).

Yes, we're in the U.S., although on the East Coast. The length of travel time is one of our hesitations, although we drive to Disney, so that's a lot of travel time too, and the cost difference isn't all that great. And since we would take at least one extra night in London, it's really a six or seven night trip.

Well I'm not saying YOU shouldn't
but I wouldn't go to Europe myself for such a short trip (the jet lag and time change really kills me so the first couple days are always a blur)

Yes, jet lag is not fun! We were thinking that adding a day on either end might be a plan, since it would be nice if we were conscious for the beginning of the tour. Does give us some hesitation though.

England for sure -- but NOT on a tour and especially not on that tour. The days are very VERY short in Dec so not only would you spend hours on a coach every day - many of those hours would be in the dark.

And more especially not for a family - multiplying the per person cost a tour will be a lot more expensive than doing it on your own. You could rent an apartment in London for a week and have a terrific time for much less than that crazy tour.

But "We have never seen Britain decorated for Christmas either" -- don't expect huge Christmas displays. There is some decorating in London like on Regent Street and and Oxford Street, and department store windows - but not many big impressive displays.

But you do have things like -- the Xmas tree in Trafalgar Square, the ice rinks and trees at Somerset House and the Tower, roasted chestnuts on every street corner, carol concerts in St Paul's, Pantos (you MUST go to a pantomime - hysterical! ) . . . .

Panto sounds like a fabulous idea, but the idea of an apartment is really leaving us a little cold. Nor am I really seeing big savings, unless I'm missing something here. A quick check on VRBO suggested that the best I was likely to do was about 800 pounds for a week in Central London (roughly half the cost of the tour for 3 people), which will include nothing else (no breakfasts, dinners, transport, sightseeing, admissions), and commit us to the entire vacation in an expensive city.

Of course, the tour is not all inclusive, and we will have to feed ourselves on the nights that dinner is not part of the package. We'll probably want lunch at least some days, too, and candy bars, the occasional pint, and a few souveneirs. Although there is no single supplement for the tour, and only a very small one for the extra nights, so we'll have two hotel rooms. The extra space and privacy would have been my only strong motivation for an apartment, and I really don't want to cook. Hopefully anything we rented would have a more modern stove than the one my apartment in Dublin did (and that was 20 years ago), but it is still something of a miracle to me that I never blew anything up.

It is a kind of nutty itinerary, and good point about the dark. Of course the days are shorter in December everywhere (in this hemisphere), and we were aware that they'll be shorter there than here, but there really is very, very little daylight in Scotland in mid-December isn't there?

In mid-Scotland in mid-Dec the sun rises around 8:30AM and sets around 3:30PM give or take a few minutes.

I generally don't cook when I rent flats/cottages - but the extra space and amenities are more comfortable than most moderate hotel rooms. And having a washer/dryer a separate living room so everyone doesn't have to go to bed the same time etc . . . .

Or - consider renting a county cottage instead. You could easily fine a 3 bdrm house in a nice town/village for less than £350 to around £500. And smaller cottage would cost less - maybe £250-£400 for posh-ish.

One other thing - I may have missed it - how many children/how old? All ages do take these type of tours -- but they definitely tend toward senior citizens. What would you all think of having to put your packed luggage in the hall outside your rooms by 6:00 every morning? Just something to think about.

I'm one of "those" people who's been to Disney 17 times, so I'll cast a lonely vote for Disney. Last year was my first experience visiting WDW at Christmastime, and...WOW. The Osborne lights at MGM (er, Hollywood Studios) are absolutely breathtaking, not to mention the fake snow that falls every night. If you're a Disney person at all, you'll LOVE it.

That said, another poster mentioned the Christmas markets in Germany -- that's always been a dream of mine because I love all things Christmas.

OR - go to Paris, rent an apartment, save a ton -- and go to Disneyland Paris

There are only 3 of us, and DS will be 15 by the time we go, and is pretty well-behaved and quiet. DH does not want to go to Paris (or even Disneyland Paris) so that does not work for us. The country cottage idea had also been on the table for a little bit, and just doesn't seem very exciting, even if we rented a car (which we're a little reluctant to do, since I don't drive at all, and DH gets a little thrown by strange road signs and has never driven on the other side of the road.)

We don't have issues with up and at 'em early either. We've never taken a multi-day tour, but we've really enjoyed short tours we've taken, and like the structure and the ease. DH really loves being able to sit back and relax and not have to worry about driving, making connections, trying to find a restaurant, etc. We also always like being able to purchase features packaged together, since while they don't always save you money, they make it much easier to predict costs.

We are still tempted by the idea of Disney, too. We were in a Disney store the other night, and our sales clerk had been the week after we were, and we were all talking about how much fun it had been.

IMHO, London is "expensive" is all relative. There are dozens, I mean DOZENS of museums in London that offer FREE admission. And these aren't just art museums, but all sorts of museums for all sorts of interests. There are also plenty of 2-for-1 entry offers in London (go to Europe board for a search) for paid attractions. If you're not into museums and such, London is still a fun city to walk around. With it being such a big city, you can explore one neighborhood each day and walk. Walking is free, you know.

Plenty of shows have tickets offered for half-price at TKTS booth.

You can take a look at this thread (at least the first half, and skip the bickering in the second half):
http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/beating-the-in-london-and-the-rest-of-england.cfm

Sure, one can spend £££ in London if one wishes, but it can be visited at a budget as well.

You don't *have* to cook dinner every night even if you stay at an apartment. There are a gazillion take-out places, supermarkets with pre-cooked food all over London. The nice thing about the apt is you can heat up the food in the kitchen, then sit down at a dinner table and enjoy your dinner. Minimum amount of work for dinner and it doesn't cost much. As for breakfast, how much does it cost to buy a box of cereal and a carton of milk?

DS and I certainly love museums (DH's enthusiasm is a little more tempered), but our reluctance to do all London really had nothing to do with a fear of being bored (I'm sure we wouldn't be). The issue with "cooking" isn't even really the actual cooking, which I usually enjoy (especially if I trust the stove not to explode), but having to think about it, buy for it, go back and deal with it, etc., etc. We rented a vacation home on our last Disney trip (6 of us, all adults except for DS) and while we saved a ton of money eating at the house, it did tend to derail evening activities. When I claim that I think of London as "expensive" it's really eating that I mean, and for people who tend to regard eating as an important part of the vacation, a landscape of expensive and appealing restaurants is extremely frustrating. As it is, I'm thinking that in London we're probably looking to do at least one night of "hotel room picnic", since I will very happily eat goodies out of Marks and Spencer's (just not every night).

This is very clearly a minority opinion, but we really do think riding around the UK in a bus sounds like more fun than a week in London. DH is really a transportation junkie of the first order, and is thrilled at the prospect of seeing unfamiliar roads, vehicles, traffic, etc. (and yes, we would visit the London Transport Museum). DS and I are not as fascinated by traffic (few people are), but we certainly enjoy riding busses, and think we'll have a good time. DS has been kind of fixated on the Iceni lately, and Hadrian's wall (although I don't know that the tour spends much time at it-they do seem to stop the bus, not just drive by) and Roman Chester sound like his kind of thing.

" . . . for people who tend to regard eating as an important part of the vacation, . . . "

I know we are not just convincing you and it IS your holiday after all . . . BUT if food is important to you I'd never EVER take a guided coach tour. The few dinners included will be in the most dreary hotel dining rooms (and all breakfasts will be). And lunches will be in the schlocky roadside places that are large enough and cheap enough to take coaches. Usually w/ a "craft" shop attached which is really just a souvenir stand.

Be VERY careful when reading the tour literature - look out for "tour speak". For instance "See something" means seeing it through the moving coach windows -- likely w/o stopping or even slowing down. Does it say "You will see Hadrian's Wall" -- or does it say "visit"? Look for those sorts of things.

If your hubby doesn't want to drive, and is interested in transport - IMO it would be waaaay better to do 3 days in London, train to York for a couple of days - the Railroad/transport museum is one of the best in the world and takes a fair amount of time which you won't have on the tour. plus there is sooooo much more to see in/around York. Then train to Edinburgh for a couple of days.

It actually says "inspect". The distinct impression I got is that they stop the bus, everyone gets out and takes a look at the wall, and then everyone gets back on and goes to Jedburgh.

I had figured a good chunk of a day for the Transport Museum, as that, Harrod's, and possibly the V&A are our highest priorities for London, and we are definitely taking at least one extra day in London if we do this (and all of the time in London affiliated with the tour is "independent").

We hadn't figured that the food would be gourmet, but Globus generally gets pretty good marks on feeding people. We probably wouldn't seek it out, but the idea of eating in a hotel dining room does not horrify us. I knew we were unusually fond of public transportation, but I am starting to get the impression that we like hotels more than a lot of other people do, too.

Riding trains certainly has a lot of appeal, but the appropriate Britrail pass seems to come in around $600 for the 3 of us, and I'm not sure that it would be $600 worth of more fun than the bus.

To clarify - the London Transport museum is a different animal than the one in York. The one in London will not take a huge chunk of the day. It is very interesting/fun - but it is about the tube and buses.

The Railway museum I mentioned is 5 times larger and is pretty unique. It and the State Railroad Museum in Sacramento are pretty much considered the best such places in the world.

BTW - point to point train tickets are usually cheaper than any Britrail Pass. W/ advance purchase you can easily get tickets for London > York for less than £20. I have friends who went London > Glasgow in May for £27 pp and probably could have found cheaper if they had booked sooner. London > York is a bit over 2 hours. London > Edinburgh about 4.5 hrs. You get a heck of a lot more "time on the ground" in those places if you aren't on a bus all day long.

But it does seem your mind is set on this tour and you are comfortable w/ the downsides/benefits, so go for it. It definitely wouldn't be my choice - especially for a family. I just hope you are deciding based on accurate info (like the costs of trains, etc)

Goes to show you learn something new everyday. I tend to think I'm pretty good at vacation research, but I didn't even know there WAS a rail museum in York. And yes, that would be right up our alley. It is definitely not compatible with the tour, however.

That is the only thing we've seen so far that would tempt us to really rethink our plans. There are a number of good rail things quite near to us that we've enjoyed, but we're always game for more. I can't really think of any sane way to incorporate it, though. And it makes me wish I could think of some way to bring my nephew, who is too young for a tour, but is so obsessed with trains that he will watch hours of raw footage of freight trains.

Yes, the Railway/Transport Museum in York is excellent and will take several hours. Fantastic collection of engines, carriages/cars, and misc. memorabilia and related history. It's about 10 min walk from the train station and very walkable from city center. Absolutely worth a visit.

I'm one of the few on this board who seems to like the bus trips instead of self travel for some things. I went through England, Scotland and Wales with Cosmos (same family as Globus, but cheaper) in 2008 and absolutely loved it. We stopped at Hadrian's Wall for 20-30 mins so everyone could take pictures, have a tiny history lesson and stretch. I thought the meals through Cosmos were fantastic, but I'm pretty easy to please. I also thought all of the hotels were very nice.

You'll have some long bus rides on the tour, but if that's what you're expecting and you're okay with it, go for it. If you're planning to go back in a few years, use this trip to get an idea of what's there and what you want to go back to see. Don't expect the UK to look like Disneyland at Christmas, it won't. If you mainly want to travel for christmas decorations, I'm afraid you might be disappointed.

As for the idea of an apartment vs hotel room, the apartments tend to give you more space and convenience. If you're staying in one place for 3-4 nights or more, it's often cheaper to get an apartment instead of hotel rooms. It's just another choice people can make.

Obviously my opinion is UK instead of Disney, but I'm pretty biased against Disney.

We certainly don't expect it look like Disney (NOTHING looks like Disney), or even necessarily like New York at Christmas, but we are always suckers for a good department store display. The Travel Channel also does an excellent job of making London in general, and Harrods in particular, look like a lot of fun at Christmastime.

I'm glad that we are not the absolutely only people who think the bus tour sounds like a lot of fun, too. We benefit from the structure, and don't mind the loss of control. I'm sure it's not everyone's idea of a good time, but this is a well-established tour company with a good reputation. I do kind of trust them not to lose me, bore me, starve me, or even exhaust me. These people do this for a living, and presumably know what they are doing.

From the sound of it, it sounds like you've already made up your mind and don't want to be convinced otherwise.
It basically sounds like you're looking more for reassurance that you're idea is great rather than actual travel advice.

Well, we had made up our minds that it was that or Disney. We had decided that if we were going to the UK at all, it would be with the tour. What I really wanted was input (or something I hadn't thought of) that would make one clearly a better choice than the other, which is hard, because they're pretty different trips.

In that sense, no, I wasn't looking for advice to fundamentally change the nature of the UK trip. If I had gotten feedback from a bunch of people who had done this recently and had a horrible time, it might have made me rethink that as an option, but probably not otherwise. I'm still not sure if we're doing Disney or the UK, but we are leaning towards UK at this time. We're still trying to figure out if there would be any reasonably sane way to incorporate that rail museum in York into our existing plans, so that was valuable, if likely to result in a couple of headaches.

persimm,
You're right, the trips couldn't be any different from each other and I understand your dilemma regarding your decision.

I guess it basically narrows down to whether or not you're looking for something different from what you've done in the past. Despite the fact that you'll be covering lots of ground in a short time it does sound like all you're needs will be met and the trip should be relatively stress free.
So it may narrow down to;
Hot or cool weather????
Same as before with a guarantee of something you enjoy versus a new experience????
Wish I could offer more help.

AVOID THE MOUSE!!!!!!