premcng

Hi everyone, I'm just graduated from university in the UK and am currently on a gap year. The plan is to first spend three months in South America basically in this order:


UK to Brazil to Argentina to Bolivia to Peru back to the UK, with circa 3 weeks spent in each of the four countries.


Now I just need a bit of help and advice planning a specific itinerary!

Here's what I have roughly planned thus far in a day(everything in order):

London (UK) to Salvador (Brazil)

Brazil:
Salvador (5 days)
Rio (6 days)
Pantanal (2 days)
Bonito (2 days)
Foz do Iguacu (2 days)

Argentina:
Yet to plan

Bolivia:
La Paz (2 days)
Sucre (3 days)
Potosi (1 day)
Salar de Uyuni (3 days)
Cochabamba (half a day)
La Paz (1 day)
Rurrenabaque (2 days)
Lake Titicaca (1 day)

Peru:
Puno (2 days)
Arequipa (2 days)
Cuzco (2 days)
Ollantalaytambo (2 days)
Machu Picchu (1 day)
Cuzco (2 days)
Amazon (3 days)
Lima (2 days)

Lima (Peru) to London (UK)

This is where I am at the moment. Now this needs A LOT of tinkering I'm sure, so any help would be greatly appreciated. I've kept each itinerary shorter than 3 weeks in order to account for travel (which I have no real idea about yet) though I plan to use the bus where possible and plane only where absolutely necessary. If I've missed out any places worth visiting, spending too much/ too little time somewhere, got the order wrong, or Anything please tell me and be as frank as you like. Any 3 week itinerary to Argentina (that includes Patagonia and hopefully Tierra del Fuego) that anybody would like to post- well that would of course be welcomed.

Thanks for any help you can give!

ricky2010ba

I would schedule the Argentina portion for the end of the trip. The reason is that if you go to Patagonia in December or January (El Calafate, and the Perito Moreno Glacier, which are near the south pole), the days are longer and a bit milder than in October. They have trekking tours on the glaciers which I've been told, are neat to do. There is also the Fitz Roy (El Chalten), and Ushuaia to visit.

Here's a link to see some pictures:

http://www.exploreargentina.com/eng/...-PKT007CHL.htm

I would spend a couple of nights in each place.

If you go in November, there is also Penguin watching in the South of Argentina too in Punta Tombo. See:

http://www.patagonia-argentina.com/i...dryn/tombo.php

Other top Argentine Destinations are Bariloche (lakes and mountains and forests), and Mendoza for wine tasting, (Club Tapiz, or the Hyatt are top places to stay) and Iguazu Falls in the north on the border with Brazil (if its not too hot).

I would also spend at least a week in Buenos Aires. The following site:

http://www.discoverba.com/tourist_information.asp

has useful information on the history of Buenos Aires, and museums, and must see destinations in the city. November still has Polo and Soccer being played, and between the museums, and parks and restaurants, you can easily spend a day in each neighborhood (Palermo Soho and Hollywood, Palermo near the botanical gardens and Palermo Chico and Palermo Nuevo, Puerto Madero, San Telmo, Recoleta, and if you are in town long enough, even consider a visit to the Tigre River Delta for a boatride through the islands, or a quick visit to Colonia in Uruguay.

http://www.bue.gov.ar/ is the city's portal for tourists.

I hope this helps!

premcng

that is excellent mate thanks, I'll definitely take this all into account when planning the Argentina portion.

Problem is I'm planning to start travelling around March earliest, maybe a bit later, so hows the climate then? And I thought the order that I've done the countries would make it easier to travel, no?


Thanks again

Susan7

Salvador is my least favourite Brazilian city, as you get hassled more than anywhere else by people trying to sell you stuff in the central area Pelourihno, that said it is very interesting for music, Baroque church architecture and the Afro-Brazilian culture.

I haven't been to the Pantanal, but I wonder if you have considered going to the Amazon as you will be in the north at the beginning of your trip? I can highly recommend one of the eco-lodges near Tefé, see my travel report for details.

maurorudelli

I would strongly recommend you to include the "Lencois Maranhenses" national psrk in your trip to Brazil.It is a coastal desert area in the north east ,the sand dunes are shining white (even the Maldives can't match that)and about 50 pct of the area (total abt. 1000 square Km) consists of blue and green crystal clear fresh water lakes.Flying over the desert with a propelled plane ( 40 min. flight from S. Luis) was the best experience in my life as a tourist.
The blue-green-white landscape is breathtaking and truly unique.
On top of this the area is very easy to reach from Salvador Bahia by plane to S.Luis, it is not touristy at all ,absolutely safe and trouble-free.
You may well have a look through Google,lots of stunning pictures and films are available.
I will be pleased to provide you with detailed info if you wish.

ricky2010ba

You can still go to El Calafate in March, but it will be colder (always windy), and the days a little shorter than in January. I would not go in June, though, since the days are shorter and colder.

premcng

susan7- I want to give Salvador a go, I'm willing to overlook hassling (within reason lol) just to see the culture because I heard it is arguably the most cultural city in Brazil, and Carnival in Salvador is something to witness. With regards to the Amazon, it will be the undoubted highlight of my whole trip on a personal level- the reasons I essentially planned South America. I am going to visit it but on the Peru wing of the trip- do you think it would be better from the Brazilian side? I look forward to reading your report as well.

maurorudelli- you seem to have roped me into it, Lencois Maranhenses sounds amazing, how long do you think I should spend there? Detailed info would be great.

ricky2010ba- really useful adivce there, as it stands it looks like I'll be in Argentina during April, will I just aboput be OK you reckon?

Susan7

Premcng, I wouldn't describe Salvador as the most cultural city in Brazil. It's a long way behind Rio and São Paulo in terms of the range and depth of cultural activities. Similarly, for Carnival most people recommend Rio or SP which have astonishing samba schools. There's a whole complex architecture for viewing Carnival in those cities, rather than the trucks with "trio electrica" used in Salvador.

If you can visit the Amazon in Brazil, I would definitely do it. It's an experience of a life time.

Treepol

premcng,

sounds like you will have a great time. If you are planning Argentina for March, are you including the Valdez Peninsula for penguins and maybe the orca that visit the seal colony when the young are learning to swim?

I can also recommend a great Buenos Aires guide, Gabriel Blacher. He is fluent in English, Spanish, German and Hebrew and can be contacted at [email protected] – I totally recommend him to other visitors. Gabriel is happy to show visitors the sights and leave then with a walking map that supports independent exploration of BA, which we really enjoyed during a July visit this year.

Pantanal - you will need longer than 2 days here. Allow at least 4 nights in this wildlife paradise.

Amazon - I recommend the Explorama Lodges http://www.explorama.com out of Iquitos for a wide range of accommodation and activity choices. We stayed at Ceiba Tops and did a mix of jungle, village,river and wildlife excursions.

Happy planning,


Pol

maurorudelli

I spent 1 day in Lencois park in summer 2009 but after 6 months I got back there and did the desert crossing (abt. 70 km in 6 days,walking or on horse back,which are the only means of transportation allowed in the park .
Since I do not think you have time enough for the desert crossing I would recommend you the following schedule :
-fly from Salvador to S. Luis (abt. 2 hrs)
-fly from S.Luis to Barreirinhas (abt. 40 min,possibly on the same day).Most of the route is over the white and blue desert,really breathtaking and unforgettable
-overnight in Barreirinhas and visit the desert area nearby (Lagoa azul and Lagoa Bonita),which will take one full day.
-overnight in Barreirinhas and return to S. Luis either by plane or by bus (abt. 4 hrs through a brand new paved road)and then take the first available flight to Salvador.
-skip the navigation in Rio Preguicas from Barreirinhas to Vassouras/Cabourè,although each and every travelling agency in S. Luis will recommend it.
IMO it is advisable to rely on travelling agencies in S. Luis
to make the necessary reservations of the flights to Barreirinhas and the Toyota 4x4 from there to the Lagoas (abt. 1 hr drive).
Also I would recommend you to visit my friend Serafin's blog,at: www.sufares.blogspot.com
Should you need any more info please do not hesitate to contact me

kbiscuitt

I see that you plan the Brazilian visit mostly on the Northeast coast and into Amazon and Pantanal. I am Brazilian, living in the US, right now (lived in England and in France, too). Only recently I have been to the interior of Minas Gerais, about 45 minutes from Belo Horizonte (capital of the state) to Rio by plane. Interior of Minas (which means Gerneral Mining in Portuguese) is rich in History and Baroque architecture. You could detour for 2 or 3 days from Rio. Better go by Bus from Rio Bus Terminal directly for Ourto Preto (I think its biggest city), then from there to Tradentes (beautiful Posadas - bit burgeois, to Congonhas (the best work of Alijadinho - The Twelve Prophets). Minas is considered second richest state of the Union and more popular in tourism among the Brazilians, so no much hassling. It is cooler climate, so even during the Summer one needs a jacket.
You might think it is a bit less exciting than the Coast, but one is marveled to see such contrast in regards to the culture, food and security. If you do have a bit of flexibility I highly recommend.

premcng

mauro and kbiscuitt, thank you thats some amazingly detailed and useful advice you've both given. Gonna take as much as possible into account and post an updated itinerary in the next couple of days, you're all helping me a bunch

CuencaKaren

Hello premcng

My advice to you is woah slow down.

You should really look at the distances involved here.
For example, did you know that it takes around 10 hours to travel between Cuzco and Arequipa, and 22 hours between Cuzco and Lima? If you were thinking of flying every time, you might want to search prices for some flights to see if that is realistic with your budget. In Argentina the distances are even greater.

Buses between large cities in South America are generally very comfortable and it is possible to take overnight buses to many places but you dont want to spend most of your trip on buses!
My suggestion is, make a list of places that you absolutely must see and then structure your trip around that. Youll have a much better time if you spend a bit more time in a few places than if you rush around trying to see everything.

Feel free to ask again if you have any specific questions.

Good luck

crellston

Firstly congratualtion on graduation! My first imppression of your itinerary is that it is VERY busy with and awful lot of travelling necessitaed by only spending a couple of days or so in each location. We spent 5 months in SA in 2008 and didn't cover anywhere near as much ground, but I guess that is a personal choice. We limited ourselves to Peru 6 weeks, Chile 4 weeks, Argentina 12 weeks.

I note you are intending travelling by bus which is great as the bus system is cheap, comfortable and efficient, plus you will save on accomodation costs as many of the trips will be overnight. The downside is that many of the journeys will be 12-24 hours duration which can get very tiring if you are doing it every couple of days (although still better thanwaiting around in airports).

Travel sites worth looking at are www.saexplorers.org (consider joining for the may genuine discounts on travel, accom & food) and http://www.andeantravelweb.com/ both are independent sites with loads of good info. SAexplorers also have clubhouses in various location for meeting other travellers and up to date local info.

Not sure of that the timings will be right weather wise but favourite palces for us In Argentina were:
-Salta and the North West
-San Martin de los Andes and teh seven lakes area down to Bariloche
Valdez peninsular
Iguazu
and of course Buenos Aires.
More info and photos on our blog:
http://www.travelpod.com/travel-blog...ai/1/tpod.html

Clare456

Hey Premcng,

I am planning a really similar trip but will be starting not as far north in Rio for the carnival. How are you getting on with your planning?

Clare

Carlos69

You are going to travel all the way to the Pantanal and spend two days there? That's very little pay off for a very large investment of time and money.

Using buses will blow out your time considerably and for the msot part to no particular advantage, unless you prefer seeing somewhere through the windows of a bus. In Brazil ifor long distance trips there's usually little discernible difference in cost between flying and taking the bus. Indeed often it's considerably cheaper to fly, particularly if you use budget carriers and/or have the time and capacity to buy promotional fares.

If you are planning to be in Salvador for carnaval, you will need to lock in your accomodation now, ideally you should have done this already. Be mindful that pretty much all places will have a minimum stay requirement and will be priced a minimum of 3X the seasonal rate.

I know Salvdor intimately and this stuff about being hassled is overhyped. It's also city with considerable cultural depth, you just need to understand the city and play to its strengths. Obviously it's not SP or Rio but neither is London Paris or Berlin Rome. Silly really. It's a wonderful city and quite unique.

Travelling to the Amazon for any worthwile experience will again blow out your budget. It's a huge distance to the most popular access point, Manaus and then you need to get well out of the city to experience the forest. January is hardly the ideal time to visit anyway. Manaus is a not a bus option.

I'd be inclined to pare back your options. Less is invariably more.

premcng

Hi Clare,

Over the past week I have started to make my plans concrete. Booked international flights, will land in Slavador in early March, where I will celebrate Carnaval until the 10th. Booked an internal flight on this day into Rio, and have booked accommodation for another 7 days here. Given that I want to head into the Pantanal, I see a lot of merit in Carlos69 observation that about 2 days is insufficient for the effort, so may spend about 4 days here.

Carlos69- do you think it would be better to get down from Rio into Iguazu and book an excursion to the Pantanal from here, or head straight to the Pantanal from Rio and then from Pantanal to Iguazu? I was thinking the former.

Argentiona as it stands, I want to go from Iguazu to Buenos Aires, and then from BA to Puerto Madryn/Valdes Peninsula, then further down to Calafate, back up to Bariloche and then up to Salta. Will need some advice for how to best do this. Have about maximum 24 days in Argentina. Will then cross into Bolivia vi San Pedro de Atacama (Chile) to get into Uyuni and Bolivia. From there, the itinerary I have mentioned in my first post is pretty spot on.

Clare456- whats your itinerary looking like?

Carlos69

Well, the Pantanal is an immense area. Are you intending to take your tour from Cuiabá, Bonito or Corumbá etc? There's not much point backtracking to Rio from Iguaçu. I'd suggest you look at flight options from IGU or via São Paulo.

If you need any advice re Salvador, feel free to drop me a line.

Treepol

Hi Premcng,

you mention booking an excursion from Iguazu into the Pantanal. Its a long way from Iguazu to the Pantanal - we flew TAM airlines last July, departing Iguazu at 6 am and flying to Campo Grande via Sao Paulo to land in Campo Grande at 11.30 am. After arrival we had a 5.5 hour 4X4 trip to reach Barranco Alto where we were staying. This took a whole day's travelling to get from A to B - distances in South America can be huge and very time consuming requiring one or more days to be put aside for flights and any land transits to places like the Pantanal, Cusco and Quito.

There may be other flights from Iguazu to Campo Grande or Corumba. I met a backpacker who had a good budget experience out of Corumba with one of the backpacker agencies operating from near the bus station. They are listed in Lonely Planet.


Happy planning,


Pol

premcng

thanks for the advice Pol. I just remember from my time volunteering in Foz do Iguacu that the hostel I stayed at used to organise trips to the Pantanal and it just made it seem easier than myself organising it- maybe i was feeling a bit lazy! So you think it would be ok to go Rio-Pantanal-Iguazu? Also another question for you, what are the main differences between North and South Pantanal?

Thanks again