I can only address the Chile part of TdP and it's been 4 years (!) but here goes.

With such a short stay you might find it difficult to see what you want in TdP using public transportation. The busses run infrequently. Private transfers are expensive. You might want to look at one of the all inclusive programs such as at Las Torres hotel since they will do an airport pickup and a transfer to El Calafate as part of the package.

If you do chose the independent public transport route, be aware that when I went, you needed to physically go to the bus terminals to buy tickets. This was more of a problem for the Pta Arenas to Pta Natales transfer on the first day. I don't know how easy it is to just get on a bus at the airport, since I spent a night in Pta Arenas.

Bus schedule for Buses Fernandez (Pta Arenas to P. Natales)
http://www.busesfernandez.com/ There are two busses in the morning, and then the next one is at 1 pm. There were two other companies, and they had pretty much similar schedules.

From Natales to reach Torres del Paine I took one of the "seat in van tours" and then took the Las Torres shuttle bus to reach the Las Torres hotel.

Las Torres is also offering the transfers as an a la carte option
http://www.lastorres.com/services/transportation/

Fantastico Sur is the company that runs the Las Torres refugios which are less expensive than the hotel.

Mlgb,

Thank you for all this information!

We did not plan to use public transportation. I thought of taking full day tours, or use all inclusive program, or rent a car in Punta Arenas or Puerto Natales. I did not get to these details just yet. I just booked the tickets, and trying to figure out how to plan my time, prior to looking into details.
By your advice, I looked at Las Torres hotel to see the prices, and they do not have any rooms for the end November!
Do we need to book everything that far in advance (internal flights, hotels)??? I did not look at refugios yet.

I need to know the dates, so I can plan.

Send them an email, it may be that you are looking so far out that the room availability is not loaded.

You'll need to check and see if there is an option to rent a car in Chile and drop it off in Argentina!

If you are looking for all inclusive type packages there are also some options just outside the park in the Rio Serrano area.

Mlgb, you have a good point. It maybe too far out. I will research.

What do you think about staying in PA for extra day to try to see penguins on Magdalena? Is it worth it?

Actually, we saw the same type of penguins a few years back in South Africa. However, they did not have a large colony like on Magdalena.

I do not want to take a car to Argentina. I thought of renting it to use for TDP only, and then return in Puerto Natales, and go to El Calafate by bus. Supposedly, there is a convinient bus connection from Puerto Natales to El Calafate.

Or alternatevely, take a all inclusive program or all day tours, and then a bus to El Calafate.

I went to Seno Otway instead. Not a huge colony. One thing to consider is that heavy seas can cancel the boat to the island.

Sorry I haven't researched the transfer to Argentina but was under the impression that it can take a long time.

One of the commercial websites with info on the area (I don't have any recommendation on using this agency)
www.torres-del-paine.org/

Thank you, Mldb! I am still hesitating if I sholuld include Iguassu or Valdes into our plans. I am thinking I could leave out Iguassu, and go there sometime later when we decide to go to Brazil. I do not think, we will ever have another opportunity to go to Valdes. And if we decide to go there, then we can see penguins in Punta Tombo. Need to think about it...

I was not a huge fan of Santiago, much preferred Valpariaso.

We flew into PA, spent the night and took the bus from PA to PN. We did just as you describe for TdP - picked up a car in PN spent several days in TdP, drove back to PN and then took the bus to el Calafate -- it was all very smooth and easy to do.

I loved IF, but didn't do it on our trip to Chile and Patagonia. The falls are spectacular. I think your choice is whether you want to see penguins or waterfalls.

I agree that trying to book now online for Nov may not show any rooms available because it is too far out. Give the hotel a call or email as suggested.

For internal flights are you aware of SKy Airlines? Much cheaper than flying LAN. we had several flights on them and all were on time, comfortable and considerably less expensive than LAN. Also re buses - every bus we took was very comfortable. Most left on time.

I had no trouble having my hotel in Puerto Natales book me on a day tour of TdP when I arrived.

I traveled in the other direction, and took the bus from El Calafate to P. Natales. I booked my ticket a week ahead, when I first arrived in El Calafate, and the bus left full. We got through the border without problems, and in November you should be OK, although I was told it can take three hours in high season.

Click on my name for my TR. I didn't do Valdes so can't compare, but was very impressed with the waterfall.

Yestravel, Thursdaysd, Mlgb, thank you so much for your responses!
Last night, I re-read all your reports... Great reading! I wish we had more time to do some of these things.

I feel like I need to add another day to my Chilean part, because of all these transfer logistics.

I like Las Torres hotel location, and their transfer options are super convinient, but so expensive for non all inclusive guests!

They quote about $276 pp for transfer from PA, and $171 from hotel to El Calafate. And for their all inclusive program, they have several night minimum stay requiremens.

Yestravel, how easy is it to navigate in the park with your own car? Do they have good maps and explain main points?
I am afraid to miss out on the best views and wildlife without guid expertise.
Also regarding Puerto Natales to El Calafate transfer. I only found a bus that leaves Puerto Natales early in the morning. So, with that, a previous night should be spent in Puerto Natales (and not in the park).
Based on your TR, seems like this is what you had to do too...


Mlgb, what did you think about Las Torres hotel in general? Reviews are very mixed. Most of the people say it has a stunning location (and I am willing to pay for that), but service is not good. They are not very helpful, disorganized and problems with trip booking.

We had absolutely no trouble navigating TdP. As I recall there are not a lot of roads to get lost on. We had a map which showed lots of the main points. I'm sure we may have missed somethings, but that is always the case with or without a guide. If u read our TR, u should take note the of the info on the gas situation. Depending upon the size of your car and how much driving you do in TdP, running out of gas MAY be an issue. We were concerned and did get the gas in TdP, but have friends who had no trouble going up and back, traveling around the park in a small car. I think the views are not that difficult to find. We are not really into seeking out wildlife, but I would think that would require a guide.

TdP is very expensive. Take as much food as you can to have to eat. Food was not great and pricey.

Correct, we did spend a nite back in PN before taking the bus. Don't recall what the bus schedules were.

I liked Las Torres hotel. Bear in mind that you are overpaying for location. It's sort of like staying in a National Park lodge. I didn't have any problems with the staff. I was not on the all inclusive, I had allocated more time to TdP so had time to take the busses.

If you are okay with driving, that is a good option, although I have heard the same about the gas.

The main road along the south of the park can be done in a day tour from Puerto Natales. If you are not hiking, you might consider staying outside of the park.

Yestravel, mlgb, thank you again!

Yestravel, should we be looking at jeep type of car or a regular car OK? This gas situation does not make any sense, or maybe it is done on purpose to sell very expensive gas. So, the closest gas station is in Puerto Natale, right?
There is no gas even right outside of the park?
By the way, a separate Thank you for a tip about Sky airline.

Mlgb, we wanted to do short hikes - park a car, and do a short or light hikes. Something similar as we did here in US in Utah parks (an hour or two, scenic, but not too strenous) Not sure if these types of hikes are available in TdP

We did hike and we stayed outside the park. If you have a car it's not a problem. Our hotel was less $$ and it took maybe ten minutes or less to get to the park. The hikes we did were moderate and not terribly strenuous. I hurt my knee in Valparaiso so was being very careful with the hiking.

The area is rather remote so no gas stations is really not surprising. We didn't really think about it and suddenly realized that, gee are we going to make it back to PN on this tank of gas? We also did a lot of exploring within the park checking it all out. We may have made it okay, but didn't want to take a chance. I recommend getting a small car which would conserve gas. We got what they had.
No need for a jeep or four wheel drive. rosds r fine. You need to book your car well in advance as there r not a huge number of cars in PN. We ended up with a mid size which contributed to our gas situation. On the route we took there were no gas stations, but there are two routes from PN to TdP.

Yestravel, this is perfect, thank you again...

And one more question. I know I ask way too many questions!

Since it take so long to get to TdP, I feel like two days there is way too rushed. So, I want to add one more day to my PN/TdP part. With that, I need to cut out one day either from BA or from El Calafate.

I allocted two days for El Calafate - to see Perito Moreno and take a boat to Upsala.
And I am not sure here. Is one day enough?

We will not be going to El Chalten.

One the other hand, Patagonia is once in lifetime trip, so not sure if I should cut here.

I think I did not word my question about El Calafate properly. I meant to ask if staying in El Calafate another day for Upsala worth it...

Yes, staying in El Calafate for the second day ifor Upsala is absolutely worth it.

Thank you, Thursdaysd!!! Then I will have to cut from BA.

I hope there will be another time for BA.

I agree, it is expensive to get down there so allocate days there.

There are some short hikes that you can do, one is to the Glacier Grey Mirador, but you can only hike along the gravel spit when the wind is not blowing,..which is most of the time. You can walk to the waterfall Salta Grande. You can take the catamaran across the lake at Pudeto (I probably would just take the same boat back, the hiking in the immediate vicinity of the Lodge isn't great). I would enter the park to stop first at the visitor center at Laguna Amarga. They may be able to suggest some other shorter walks. Around Lago Sarmiento you can see lots of guanaco.

If you are not going to hike to the Towers (which is a full day), then it makes less sense to stay at Las Torres (which requires you to drive on a rutted road over a narrow bridge!)

I did a full day tour to TdP out of P. Natales, both north and south sides. Although I am very reluctant to take tours, especially on big buses, this one actually worked out well. The only hiking was on the gravel spit mentioned by mlgb (windy but doable), but I felt that I got to see everything I wanted to (I didn't need to see Glacier Grey up close, having seen glaciers out of El Calafate). Of course, I was lucky with the weather - the guide said you can only see the towers about 60 days a year, and I had a beautiful clear, sunny day.

There are several shorter easier hikes. As suggested check at the visitors center. Plus you can hike portions of the longer hikes which we did. You can easily get an overview of the entire park driving in less than a day. But if you want to get out and see various areas, hiking or not, you need more time. We were there in March and had good weather by and large. We rushed around the first day in the sun fearing that we wouldn't have sun the remainder of the stay, but that was not the case.

If you get lucky and feel that you have had a good day at TdP seeing what you wish, I recommend taking the day cruise cutter operated by Turismo 21 de Mayo from Natales up the Seno Ultimo Esperanza. It includes a parillada lunch at an estancia and a walk to a glacier. I booked it directly at their offices in Puerto Natales, but I would think most of the hotels and travel agents can also do this for you.

http://www.turismo21demayo.cl/ultima_esperanza.htm

Thanks for great suggestions!

Actually, I like the idea of a full day tour. However, we would love to poke around by ourselves too...
I think Las Torres uses a smaller van for a full day tour, rather than a bus. I appreciate all these hiking ideas...

Mlgb, I opened this website, and I immediatly saw a photo of a bunch of Chilean flamingos. Did you really see flamingos on this trip?

For some reason, I really want to see flamingos... Can you see them in TdP or El Calafate?

I did see a few flamingos, at Laguna Cisnes! Our guide (from Las Torres) seemed to think we were lucky. I was there in early January.

Fantastico Sur has some birding experts associated with their touring groups, maybe looking through their tour itineraries you can get an idea of your chances

http://www.fsexpeditions.com/torres_del_paine_national_park_chilean_patagonia/torres_del_paine_explorer.php

Exactly four years ago I was watching the inauguration on a tiny B&W TV at the Punta Arenas airport, at the cafe!

Photos from the south side of the park, mostly.

Not sure how green it is now, this was pre fire.

http://picasaweb.google.com/kiwifann/TorresDelPaineCuernos#

Fantastic views and fantastic pics! And I can see flamingos!
I am sure these view definitely made up for not be able to see inauguration in color.

I was also wondering if there is any need to use travel agents to book flights/transfers/tours or anything. Do they offer any discounts or good suggestions?

I normally book everything myself via Internet, but at certain destinations I liked working with local agents that can help with trip logistics.

Do you have any opinions on this one?

I was not successful in my attempts to find a local TA. For some parts of the trip we used an agency from Ca. The owner was from Chile. frankly I could have done just as well booking the whole thing myself. The TA was fine, but really didn't add any value. I booked all the internal flights myself as he didn't deal with Skye. He could get some breaks on LAN flights, but they were more expensive then the flights u could get on Skye. He had a few suggestions, but nothing outstanding.

I did contact Say Heque at one point. It cost me a week because they didn't reply in a timely manner, and they didn't come up with anything useful. I booked everything myself.

Thanks helen63.
I also did not have much luck finding a helpful US travel agent. Same situation where they said they'd call back and did not.

I wound up using a Lan South American airpass since I also went to Peru on the same trip. But I would definitely look into Sky.

I was able to book all of my own lodging by a combination of email and in some cases phone calls. Attempts to book the busses were unsuccessful, I had to wait until I got there.

The lodging that I used in Punta Arenas (La Casa Escondida) has two owners fluent in English, they were very helpful.

I took the "Full Paine" tour offered by Las Torres hotel since it was the least expensive way to get to the Glacier Grey departure by myself, that was when we saw the flamingos.

BTW when I was there, the Las Torres hotel has a nice educational exhibit about the park, should be open to everyone. They also have some nature guides for sale. They are all related companies (FS Expeditions, Fantastic Sur & Las Torres) and seem to have some expertise in wildlife if that is an interest to you.

Thank for your replies! It looks like we need to go our usual route - book everything ourselves...

Thursdaysd, it is interesting you mentioned Say Heque. I actually saw a lot of good reviews about them, and considered emailing them.

Last night, I posted a question on Tripadvisor about trips around Peninsula Valdez. And one of their people saw the post, and contacted me immediatly, and answered some of my questions. So, I will talk to them. Will see if they are any helpful.

This question is for people who drove in Torres del Paine. Did you rent a car with manual transmission in Puerto Natales? So far, no one can confirm a car with automatic transmission. Now, I am thinking to rent a car in Punta Arenas (I am not sure if they have automatic in there either), but they do charge one way drop off fee.

We had a manual car for,our drive from PN to TdP.

I see. I think my husband has to go to a driving class He drove a car with manual transmission years ago,

It really comes right back to you if you know the concept. I guess it's like what they say about riding a bike.

Well, maybe. I know that saying about riding a bike, and it turned out not to apply to me. I also had trouble the last time I tried to drive stick (I started out driving stick in the UK, but have been driving automatics for decades in the US). Both my knees and the gear box complained.

I started out driving stick back in Russia years ago as well, and I would never attempt doing this again...
We tried to avoid driving stick shift for many years, always paying premium for renting automtic, but Patagonia left no choice...So, hopefully, my husband has some memories of how to do it. It will be a good skill to have for future trips.

Definitely a worthwhile skill. Maybe he can find a local rental that has a manual and practice a bit. Although I heard rentals in the US don't usually have manual. Or perhaps a driving school? Good luck. As I recall the drive to TdP was pretty easy driving with little traffic.

I would think every major driving school should be able to teach stick shift driving, but this is not the case. I found one school here in Chicago area that just introduced stick shift hourly instructions on request. So, we are thinking 1-2 sessions should be enough to refresh, and then he can practice a little with his friend whos has a stick shift car.

We need this for TdP and penninsula Valdez (another place with no automatic cars)

My experience is that for Americans under a certain age driving a stick shift is a lost art. My daughter went on a trip with her then fiancé and was floored that he couldn't drive a stick and she had to do all the driving.
I think a couple lessons and he'll be fine. Hills r always a challenge so be sure he practices that I. His lesson.

Ufortunately, this is true... My son never drove sitck shift, so he never will... And he will have the same issue going to other countries...

It would be hard to practice hill driving in Illinois, but I will make sure they will find at least one during his lessons... He used to drive a truck in the army years ago, so he should be fine. I hope.

A couple of years ago, he first drove on left side, so this year he should be looking forward to new learning experience.

I have always owned a stick shift car. I get confused when I drive an automatic...where is the clutch pedal?