we scheduled a trip to Puerto Vallarta at the end of March. Staying at the Fiesta Americana about 2 miles from old town. dont know anything about the area never been there. Thought about canceling trip because of all the news especially the 60 minute report about the wars with the drug cartells and the travel alert warning not to go to mexico. got quite concerned. does anyone know if its safe in PV? Thanks

DARN! It is true than???

In the last five years, over 200 Americans have been killed in Mexico. We live in Texas, so this used to be a really popular vacation spot. With all the news about the drug cartels in the news lately, people have started switching to other destinations. The Houston Chronicle just ran a big story about all the murders. My husband's company has stopped traveling to Mexico. The Chronicle's website is chron.com; you may be able to pull the article up to get more details.

It is probably not the best time to go to Mexico - the drug cartels are quite active, and it can be very dangerous. I don't know about PV, but for me (and I go there alot on business), I'm going to postpone my Mexico travel for a little while. Look up the news articles for what is going on, and make up your own mind based on your comfort level.

I guess if I was looking to travel to Mexico, I'd look at specific data for the area I want to travel to. And, what kind of people are getting kidnapped and murdered. If tourists are involved, then I'd consider changing destinations.

I do know at least four people have drowned in the past month or so on the Mayan Riviera. I haven't heard of any tourist murders in the area.

The Los Angeles Times has been running a series on the drug war in Mexico. Today's paper has an article about Cancun.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-mexico-cancun-drugs2-2009mar02,0,3441309.story

http://projects.latimes.com/mexico-drug-war/#/its-a-war

It is worse in the border cities, particularly Tijuana and Juarez.

Another interesting article, apparently Mazatlan is a favorite vacation spot for the narco cartels.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/02/world/americas/02mazatlan.html

STOP with the hysteria. This is not about the tourist destinations like Puerto Vallarta, Cabo, or Zijuatenejo.

Mexico is a HUGE and diverse country. It is NOT an issue in most place. To tell people to cancel trips to somewhere like PV is absolutely ridiculous.

I just got back from one week solo/female in Cabo San Lucas and everything was OK. There was *nothing* along these lines.

For more accurate information from recent visitors and people who live there I highly suggest the Trip Advisor destination forums (for Vallarta, Cabo, etc.) for ACCURATE information, not just ramping up the hysteria like this post here.
suerte, Suze

http://www.chron.com/databases/mexicomurders references some of the murders if you want more info.

The headline I read targeted spring breakers, who often drink excessively and may use poor judgement. Use common sense, just like you would in any city, and your chances of being a crime victim are low, just as suze said.

I just put a deposit on a trip to Oaxaco for October, 2009 with National Geograpic for the Day of the Dead Festival there. It's a Photographers Workshop - lasts one week, and the maximum number of participants is limited to 25.
Tonight, my husband said he'd heard it's not safe to travel to Mexico, that's why I'm here, on this forum.
I thought I'd check it out.
I would think that if I'm with National Geographic, I'd be "safer" than if I weren't with such a reputable organization.. but then again... I am flying there myself, and I'm not sure how closely our 'leader' sticks with us as we go about our photographic assignments.
Also, I wonder about "Day of the Dead"... I've always been fascinated by it, and am excited too.... I think it'd be an awesome trip to photograph -
Sounds kind of scary now.
I hope it doesn't impact my plans.

The link I posted lists the murders by city and also has a map, so you could check the areas you're interested in and see how affected they are.

I also spend a great deal of time in Mexico, specifically Playa del Carmen. I'm going back at the end of the month and I spend all summer there. I'm not nervous at all. Mexico is a very large country. That's not to say that I'm not careful just as I would be here in the U.S.

Traveling to a major tourist locale and not engaging in any illegal activity (drugs), I would have no qualms about traveling to Mexico, and have done so often. The people are very welcoming, food is great and there's lots to see and do.

Having said that, for those traveling through Mexico City airport, be careful when changing money.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gHWLUm1UtoG95H7QyRg_-GiMC4HQD96M7FIO0

Please remember that some posters are in the travel industry so have vested interests in encouraging individuals to travel.

I live near the border and know people who have relatives in Mexico. They haven't been back to Mexico since the narco cartel wars started two years ago.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29378774/

I am not in the travel industry at all. I own a condo in PDC and go there frequently.

Ok, or own property in Mexico and don't want property values to drop further.

MEXICO CITY, Mexico (CNN) -- The police chief in Cancún has been relieved of his duties and placed under house arrest while he is investigated in the killing of a retired Mexican general who had been the area's anti-drug chief for less than 24 hours, Mexican media are reporting.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/02/10/mexico.chief.arrested/

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6252174.html references the article I was talking about. One city you definitely want to steer clear of is Juarez, 1,600 people killed there last year. I'd also avoid Tijuana and Nuevo Laredo.

My guess is that Mexico is more dangerous than it was but that the dangers are overstated. As per above I wouldn't consider going to the border cities.

Actually my property values are just fine. Since I don't plan on selling anytime in the future and don't rent my unit out I really don't care. I simply give information on the area as I've learned through my trips. I find your comment disrespectful and derogatory.

The border towns have always been dicey. I think they're just more so now as drugs have taken a stronger foothold. We used to go down to Padre and Matamoros for Spring Break, and then the whole Mark Kilroy thing happened. I remember seeing his picture plastered all over school when he was missing, and they later found out he had been kidnapped by a drug cult and used in a ritual sacrifice. Border towns often have a lot of drunk college kids that want to party and feel invincible.

I agree with Suze.

I also agree with Suze.

MY

And I agree with Suze also. The differences between tourist towns and the border towns is vast. Does that mean that nothing ever happens in tourist areas? Of course not. Crime is everywhere both in Mexico, Canada, the U.S. and all over the world. When I was in Playa a couple of weeks ago the number of visitors was as high as it was in December over the holidays. It was surprising compared to last year when things were quiet at the end of Jan and beg of Feb. It will be interesting to see what it's like at the end of March when it's usually very busy again until after Easter.

I agreee with the US State Department

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/pa/pa_3028.html

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_970.html

CRIME: Crime in Mexico continues at high levels, and it is often violent, especially in Mexico City, Tijuana, Ciudad Juarez, Nuevo Laredo, Monterrey, Acapulco, and the state of Sinaloa. Other metropolitan areas have lower, but still serious, levels of crime. Low apprehension and conviction rates of criminals contribute to Mexico’s high crime rate.

Aged 75, I rode my Honda 125 north through Mexico last year on my way back from Tierra del Fuego to New York. The route took me up the Pacific coast, east via Merida and Queretaro to the Sierra Gorda and north into Texas at Brownesville. I never felt in any danger.
Recently we have been watching the WIRE here in England on TV. Based on the evidence of this much acclaimed series,tourists should be warned against visiting the US, especially Philadelphia. Oh, and certain areas of Washington DC, Miami, Los Angeles etc etc etc. Random killings are common in all these cities, cops are corrupt, narco gangs rule the streets...
Or be sensible, travel, meet new people, encounter different cultures and enjoy yourselves. I am planning a ride round the Indian subcontinent for next winter and intend celebrating my 77th birthday in Nepal.
For those interested, an account of my journey 60000 kilometer circumnavigation of the Americas is at www.simongandolfi.com
Cheers!

I can only speak for myself, but I am most certainly NOT in the travel industry nor to I own property in Mexico or have a vested interest in where people go on their vacation.

IF people are worried I wish they would quit posting crazy things on all the Mexico travel forums, and just book themselves a trip to Hawaii instead. Problem solved.

Yes, the US State Department always posts crazy things like safety warnings.

Its always a good idea to ignore them. I think I'll head to Zimbabwe, Sudan or Darfur next.

Actually, the State Department does tend to err on the side of caution.

Again, I agree with Suze.

MY

Actually State Department warnings ARE often overstated. And no I'm not going to Zimbabwe or Darfur. But I AM going to continuing to visit the normal tourist destination in Mexico. These were not now, never were, part of the warnings or troubled areas.

News to me that Acapulco, Cancun and Mazatlan are not normal tourist destinations. Good luck.

Normal tourist destinations are also affected; maybe it's because we're in Texas, but we get a lot of Mexican news here. I remember several stories in our local paper about severed human heads showing up in Acapulco - horrible grizzly decapitations. We've traveled there and enjoyed it, but personally I wouldn't want to go there in this climate. Other people might have a different comfort level though; it's really up to the individual and their own comfort level. People in the drug trade like to send a message - in one instance they even hurled several human heads onto a disco dance floor. Not to say that crime can't happen anywhere, but it's certainly getting more pervasive in Mexico.

And I agree with colokid. Hats off to all Fodorites who participate in the discussion without resorting to sarcasm and put-downs. What a boring world if we were all in total agreement. The majority of posts on this thread have been voices of reason. Of course there are risks to travel, and certainly to particular areas of Mexico at this time. It's a sensible heads up. No one has to be "more right" than the next person. It isn't a contest.

That said, we are all adults and capable of making our own informed or uninformed decisions and dealing with the consequences. Hey guys, DH and I will be heading to Mexico City with our church group as part of a medical/construction mission team in the mountains a couple of hours from Puebla. Same as last year. We'll take all the precautions we always do when traveling in areas with which we are not entirely familiar. And you know what, if we don't make it back, please give us a Fodor's toast!

shillmac, what a great endeavor. Best of luck.

I was in Ciudad Juarez for an hour or two in December, and a couple hours in January, when traveling by bus through Mexico to/from El Paso, TX. I certainly noticed the security precautions and the military, but no criminal acts. But bad as things were then, they've gotten worse even in the last two months, so far as murders and mayhem, and I'd feel reluctant to do even a short visit again.

As for other parts of Mexico, certainly I have read some scary stuff about an awful lot of places, including many I want to visit or revisit. But I love Mexico so much that I think I will end up going back anyway. I can say that I've had no scary incidents so far anywhere in Mexico. But I would be scared if I happened upon a massacre in progress, like has happened in some beautiful, usually peaceful towns like Patzcuaro and Morelia.

shillmac, you will definitely be back; it sounds like you and your team will make a real difference.

The State Department strongly emphasizes the border towns but also makes reference to "crime and violence throughout Mexico" and that "Armed street crime is a serious problem in all of the major cities. Some bars and nightclubs, especially in resort cities such as Cancun, Cabo San Lucas, Mazatlan, Acapulco, and Tijuana, can be havens for drug dealers and petty criminals. Some establishments may contaminate or drug drinks to gain control over the patron."

Also, "There have been a significant number of rapes reported in Cancun and other resort areas."

If one chooses the advice of some on this board in light of the State Department alert...Bon voyage.

Suze is absolutely right. Even Cancun and Acapulco are just two tourist destinations. I love Merida, San Cristobal de las Casas, Isla Mujeres, Puebla, Oaxaca and many other places where I feel perfectly safe to walk any time of day or night. Other places I'd love to go are Guanajuato and Puerto Escondido, which are not on any state department warning list. The crime does not touch the typical tourist, and to generalize about Mexico as a place to avoid is simply foolish. You'd be much wiser to avoid the dicier parts of your own cities in the U.S. And, no, I have no connection to Mexican real estate or to its tourist industry. Hysteria it is.

"Some bars and nightclubs, especially in resort cities such as Cancun, Cabo San Lucas, Mazatlan, Acapulco, and Tijuana, can be havens for drug dealers and petty criminals. Some establishments may contaminate or drug drinks to gain control over the patron."

This kind of thing has been boilerplate in the TAs for years. So now you know -- check out the bars. Is it full of violent criminals crisscrossed with bandoliers and wearing machetes? Wrong bar.

This is absolutely just common sense, but my husband has a friend who goes hunting. He forgot he had a box of bullets in his trunk. When they searched his car, they found the bullets and promptly arrested him. The authorities wouldn't let him go until his company paid $20,000. Nightmare to try to get him out and get his car back. When he finally got it back, all his belongings were gone. Don't think he'll make that mistake again!

"my husband has a friend who goes hunting. He forgot he had a box of bullets in his trunk"

Now that is just plain stupid, and *every* guide and TA specifically warns against bringing firearms or ammunition into Mexico. (Especially now, when nearly all the firearms and ammo used in the drug wars comes from the US.)

$20,000 -- was that a bribe to spring him from the smuggling charge? Pretty cheap I'd say. I don't know why he got his car back at all. In the US it would be confiscated.

Just read about how all these drug was in Mexico is affecting Texas now! So much for "STOP with the hysteria" and "I agree with suze"

"Just read about how all these drug was in Mexico is affecting Texas now!"

Have no idea what this means, but I'd NEVER travel to Texas. ;^)

GroupTraveler, your sentence doesn't make any sense. But nothing's changed since this thread started. I still feel the same.

That said, I do avoid the state of Texas!

Fra, I don't know if I would use the term bribe; he had an attorney from the states and an attorney in Mexico; they both agreed that it would take $20,000 to spring the guy. He was aware of the rules, just completely forgot they were in there. His cell consisted of a bare mattress on the floor and raw sewage in the cell. Best to be on good behavior in Mexico. Even with the money, he was still in there for several days. Then again, prison probably isn't pretty in any country.

One more vote for Suze.

I've also noticed similar "hysteria" on some other posts about Latin America and some Caribbean islands. I would put more stock into the opinions of the Fodorites here that have given me good objective advice and travel recommendations through the years, than I would the State Dept. And I've had wonderful (recent) experiences in Mexico and Latin America because of that. If I only heeded the State Dept's travel alerts and warnings, I'd barely leave my house. Put things into the proper context! I'm not disputing the attrocities that are happening in parts of Mexico these days. But MANY parts remain and always have been extremely warm, friendly, and safe.

I think these warnings are directed, particularly right now, at the teen and college crowd heading down to Mexico for spring break. Drinking and common sense don't go together and this is giving these students, and their parents, a heads up and pause to think about their actions and consequences away from home.

MY

We went there in college; I have to admit that we were complete idiots. Kids just have a real sense of being invincible and tend to do things in other countries that they would never do at home. Not having a drinking age is just too tempting. I have to wonder if some of these resorts dread American spring breakers coming down despite all the money they bring in. We saw loads of obnoxious behavior.

<I have to wonder if some of these resorts dread American spring breakers coming down despite all the money they bring in>

YES the do, and the other tourists aren't so thrilled about it either.

EXCLUSIVE: 100,000 foot soldiers in Mexican cartels

The U.S. Defense Department thinks Mexico's two most deadly drug cartels together have fielded more than 100,000 foot soldiers - an army that rivals Mexico's armed forces and threatens to turn the country into a narco-state.

"It's moving to crisis proportions," a senior U.S. defense official told The Washington Times. The official, who spoke on the condition that he not be named because of the sensitive nature of his work, said the cartels' "foot soldiers" are on a par with Mexico's army of about 130,000.

The two cartels appear to be negotiating a truce or merger to defeat rivals and better withstand government pressure. U.S. officials say the consequences of such a pact would be grave.

"I think if they merge or decide to cooperate in a greater way, Mexico could potentially have a national security crisis," the defense official said. He said the two have amassed so many people and weapons that Mexican President Felipe Calderon is "fighting for his life" and "for the life of Mexico right now."

As a result, Mexico is behind only Pakistan and Iran as a top U.S. national security concern, ranking above Afghanistan and Iraq, the defense official added.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/mar/03/100000-foot-soldiers-in-cartels/

I notice, RBCal, that you left out both references in the article to the fact that the violence is happening along the US-Mexican border, particularly near Laredo, TX. No one I know has any interest in visiting that God-forsaken desert. I will continue to happily visit the peaceful colonial towns and beach resorts I have been to time and time again without incident.

Oh brother, I linked the article so they could read it for themselves.

FYI
Mazatlan is in Sinaloa (where the Sinaloa cartel is based, the largest drug cartel)

I get that. But you also quoted selectively.

I've never been to Mazatlan. I notice the travel alert you posted above mentions "the state of Sinaloa" and not Mazatlan in particular as a violent place. Again, selective posting to make an argument.

Most importantly, the border towns and Sinaloa are not the entirety of Mexico. Lots of very safe places.

I wouldn't avoid New York City just because the South Bronx has lots of crime.

The Mexican government reports that the major cartels – Gulf, Sinaloa,and Juárez -- are present in much of Mexico. The Juárez cartel has been found in 21 Mexican states and its principle bases are: Culiacán, Sinaloa; Monterrey, Nuevo León; the cities of Ciudad Juárez, Chihuahua, and Ojinaga, Chihuahua; Mexico City; Guadalajara, Jalisco; Cuernavaca, Morelos; and Cancún, Quintana Roo. The Sinaloa cartel has a presence in 17 states, with important centers in Mexico City; Tepic, Nayarit; Toluca and Cuautitlán, Mexico State; and most of the state of Sinaloa. The Gulf cartel is present in 13 states with important areas of operation in the cities of Nuevo Laredo, Miguel Alemán, Reynosa, and Matamoros in the northern state of Tamaulipas. The Gulf cartel also has important operations in Monterrey in Nuevo León; and Morelia in Michoacán. In addition, the Tijuana cartel is present in at least 15 states with important areas of operation in Tijuana, Mexicali, Tecate, and Ensenada in Baja California and in parts of Sinaloa

www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL34215.pdf

Additionally, Chapo, the head of the Sinaloa cartel owns a house in Mazatlan (story linked many posts previously)

and I have been to Mazatlan

RBCal~ Nobody's forcing you (or anyone else who is nervous about it) to go to Mexico.

I'm going back to Akumal in May (flying into Cancun) and was in PV for four nights in early December. Everything was perfectly normal and nice and not letting this hysteria stop me. Peeps have to use common sense.

Another vote for suze.

I was perhaps understood as mocking or cynical in my first post on this Thread - mentioning THE WIRE.
However I am a Brit aged 76 and have recently completed a 60000 kilometer ride on a Honda 125 from Mexico south to Tierra del Fuego,then north to New York. Being Spanish-speaking may help - however I never felt in danger anywhere other than Colon (Panama) and Venezuela where drivers are insane. Texan friends thought me crazy to venture through Mexico on a small bike. I met with nothing but kindness and consideration.
I recall three bikers in North Carolina (one, a judge) complaining at encountering corrupt cops in a ride through Mexico. Cops had stopped them three times for speeding (they were speeding). They paid the cops off. Then why complain? Imagine a Mexican biker stopped for speeding in North Carolina...
This strikes me as the difficulty in this thread - judging Mexico in isolation. Mexico suffers the same problems suffered in the US. Citizens of the US know what districts to avoid.
Mexico is off the map.
However for a foreign traveler, the US is frightening. We receive the same warnings regarding Big City US as citizens of the US hear of Mexico. Please understand this not as an attack on the US, but as a realty no less real than that which frightens US citizens contemplating a holiday in Mexico.
An account of my journey is at http://www.simongamndolfi.com

This situation reminds me of when we spent a month in northern Spain in 2000. Many people there asked us whether we let our kids play outside - Everybody wanted to know if we were concerned about drive-by shootings.

I used to live in Cuernavaca and still return often to Mexican beaches or colonial cities (Sayulita, San Miguel, Tulum) where we rent villas with groups of friends. Even though the places we go have not been affected by the violence, we skipped this year because our friends, usually intrepid travelers, were influenced by a series of graphic almost-daily reports in the L.A. Times called "Mexico Under Seige".

http://projects.latimes.com/mexico-drug-war/

These front-page stories are so grizzly that they do seem sensationalized, but sadly, most are indeed accurate. They focus mostly on the northern border areas and Mexico City, but paint such a nasty picture of lawlessness, that even my Mexican friends here are now avoiding tourist places like Cuernavaca, Acapulco, Manzanillo and Valle de Bravo.

IMHO, it is irresponsible and reckless to trivialize or even worse to encourage people to ignore US State Department warnings.

Yes, most people won't have a problem even in Juarez or Tijuana. The murder of thousands of people out of over a million population means that a small percentage of people were killed.

However, Fodors is a very large travel board and thousands of people read it. If a few of the thousands that read the board follow your advice and they experience a problem, I would personally feel guilty and partially responsible if I were one of those trivializing the problem.

OK, that's twice. It's "grisly" not "grizzly."

"I would personally feel guilty and partially responsible if I were one of those trivializing the problem."

Ah, but you're not. You're one of those causing needless panic, and perhaps influencing people to cancel vacations they might have enjoyed. If I were you and learned someone had cancelled a vacation because of my fear-mongering, based on third-hand information, I would feel both guilty and completely responsible. Get a grip!

I am not TRIVIALIZING the problem I am trying to clarify that there are specific problem areas and very specific issues involved here, and they (to date) do not involve tourists on vacation.

Ok, and I am clarifying that in the last few weeks the Chief of Police in Cancun was detained for complicity murder. Also, Acapulco has recently had several cartel murders and kidnappings.

Thank you for documenting all your "clarifications" that Cancun and Acapulco are not tourist destinations and showing that everything is hunky dory with actual references.

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=33972

It sure is a tragedy for someone to vacation somewhere else. I'm sorry if I ruined anyone's vacation. It's almost like my documentations of actual happenings "killed" someones vacation.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/acapulco-in-the-front-line-as-mexican-drug-cartels-hit-back-at-government-435643.html

http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/mexico/articles/20090216.aspx

February 9, 2009: Troops took control of police headquarters in Cancun and arrested the local police commander and 36 policemen. The military announced that it believes the policemen are “connected” to the murder of retired Mexican Army Brigadier General Mauro Enrique Tello in Cancun.

February 4, 2009: A retired senior Mexican military officer, Brigadier General Mauro Enrique Tello, was murdered in Cancun in what authorities said was likely an assassination by a drug cartel hit team. Two bodyguards were killed along with the general. The murders were “execution-style”?the men were tortured then shot in the head. Tello had retired recently and after his retirement had take charge of a special counter-cartel security force authorized by the mayor of Cancun. Tello had also been in charge of operations in western Mexico in 1997 (Michoacan state) that amounted to a crackdown on drug traffickers and local gangsters – something of a “preview” of the Cartel War. The government is paying close attention to the murders, for several reasons. The Mexican Army plays a central role in the Cartel War – it is the government’s chief counter-cartel organization. Cancun is also an international tourist resort and a source of good jobs. Tourist revenues have declined since violence began increasing. So far the worst violence has been in northern Mexico, though the Acapulco region, which is also a tourist resort, has been plagued by inter-gang “turf wars” and shootouts between the police and drug gangs.

So it sounds like, if I'm not a corrupt politician or a politician trying to clean up corruption or a member of a gang, the likelihood of being caught up in drug cartel violence is practically zero. Just as I thought...

RBCal - Sorry about my typo - I did notice it, but it was too late.

We used to drive down to Tijuana and Rosarito occasionally for a daytrip from southern Ca. We don't do that anymore...

But...we are still planning a trip to Cancun and or the Riviera Maya later this summer and I am not planning on changing plans. Truly am not worried about safety...and so excited at the thought of going back to my favorite country to travel to.

Just hoping the country of Mexico somehow solves this problem.

Yet another typo - apologized to the wrong poster...sorry, Fra.

Too boring. See ya, RBCal (not in Mexico, I hope!)

Frankie - haven't seen you around in awhile. I'm not sure why this thread is being continued. I think we all understand RBCal has very definite opinions on the subject and other people have other opinions. I see no reason to post any further info on what I know for myself. I will happily travel to my second home very shortly and enjoy my neighbors and town. It was no different in February, last December/January, last October or last summer. If you have any reservations about traveling then don't go. It's very easy. If you want to go, then go. Research where you go, look at other forums, and read other information. I hope I never let fear immobilize me to the point where I don't want to explore the world and the people who live there. Adios.

Nope, not in Mexico until the Narco wars end. I think Calderon is correct to use the army to fight the cartels but I won't be going there until its over.

Plenty of places that are safer and have great beaches. Australia, Belize, Greece, Thailand, etc.

RBCal, Have you read that State Department page on Belize??? I read it, and the one for Mexico last night.

I'm in Belize right now, and have been for two weeks (by myself), not had any sort of issues.

But, if you read the warnings, it's pretty scary.

I think more frightening than the ones for Mexico.

And neither country actually has a 'travel warning'. There are only about 20 countries in the world that have those.

I'm not trying to scare anyone out of going to Belize or Mexico, I'm just saying Mexico isn't the only country with crime issues.

blah blah blah!! If you have second thoughts about going to mexico - stay home. Every where vactioners go there is crime, there is poverty, there is drugs. Mexico, Islands, any of the South Americas and Europe, well I guess it's everywhere. Use your common sense, avoid the less traveled areas for now. But have a good time life is short enjoy enjoy enjoy.
We leave for riveria maya in ten days.

Have a great time devadevil. I'm leaving in 22.

Don't go to PV or Cabo, but go to Belize instead? Uh, ya that's great advice.

>>suze on Mar 4, 09 at 11:16 AM
GroupTraveler, your sentence doesn't make any sense.<<

Yes, su-zee! This is why you can't miss one!
I read that granades that are thrown by drug cartels are landing in Texas. I thought everyone knew so I made it short.

Yours truly GroupTraveler (who does not post in threads that don't make sense)

Grenades are being thrown from Mexico over the border into Texas?????????

Anyway, enjoy your vacations no matter where you go. I guess perceived or real danger is sometimes part of the adventure of travel.

I've been to Palestine, Israel, Egypt, Zimbabwe and about 40 other countries. I've never been a victim of crime. The only country I witnessed a crime happen in front of me was Costa Rica (which most people claim is safe).

I live close to Mexico and I'm not going there til the narco cartels are dealt with. I guess knowing people who have had relatives or acquaintances killed there is different than reading about it in the newspaper.

Obviously, everyone makes their own decisions as adults and you have to live with those decisions.

I would also be very concerned about going to Mexico.....and I own property there (just land). I have heard reports (I think it was on 60 minutes) that they ARE targeting tourists now as well. The escalation of violence is really horrifying to watch evolve. I think this is truly a crisis for this country and feel terrible for its citizens.

re: simongandolphi-

"Imagine a Mexican biker stopped for speeding in North Carolina..."

I don't have to "imagine". Mexicans get stopped for speeding all the time, they get a speeding ticket like Americans do, I live in Texas and it would be the same in North Carolina. Geez, what a silly comment.

"Mexico suffers the same problems suffered in the US."

No, there are huge differences between the USA and Mexico and we don't suffer from the same problems. Yes, there is crime and drugs in the US just like there is in the UK or Europe or anywhere, but Mexico has massive corruption at many levels and the drug cartels have taken over certain places. The bribe is a way of life there.

Personally, I would not go to Mexico right now, especially the border areas. The drug cartels have gotten violent and some of this has spilled over into the USA. This isn't "hysteria", just common sense. I realize that crime can happen anywhere but you take more chances going to certain places than others, why push the envelope. Of course there are also areas of Mexico that are not affected. If an area is not affected and a person feels comfortable going, then that's their business. I however will go elsewhere for now, there are too many other places that I would feel a bit more comfortable.

PS-for those who said they'd NEVER go to Texas, I say GOOD!!!!We already have enough Californians and rustbelt midwesterners coming here for jobs because their own state is a mess and we are all full up. LOL

Well now that we hear the Mexicans are throwing hand grenades over the border . . .

Whether it's hysteria or not, here are some people that are making money off the situation. You can now buy your very own armored vehicle complete with bulletproof glass, puffs of smoke that allow you to elude someone chasing you, and electrified door handles in case they get too close. Sounds sort of batmobileesque, and they're becoming popular in Mexico. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090304/ap_on_re_us/border_armored_vehicles_2

"Whether it's hysteria or not, here are some people that are making money off the situation. You can now buy your very own armored vehicle complete with bulletproof glass, puffs of smoke that allow you to elude someone chasing you, and electrified door handles in case they get too close."

Ha ha, that's funny. I wouldn't mind getting one for all of the tailgaters here.!!!!

Volcano --

There have been a number of articles in the Times about the security precautions taken by Mexico's wealthier citizens. While no one would dispute that they are targets, the relevance of that to the average tourist is not clear. Part of the security mania seems to be a twisted status contest -- "I'm so rich I've got to . . . etc.)

I can't remember in which country they're sold, but there is actually an armored limousine with flame-throwers under the chassis, ready to immolate potential car jackers!

All, appears to be the usual American hysteria and as usual inaccurate, but sure works well for the media though. LOL
If I were to read the statistics on some American/Canadian towns, I shouldn't travel too the USA/Canada at all ?

Fra, wouldn't that be fun to use?

"All, appears to be the usual American hysteria and as usual inaccurate, but sure works well for the media though."

Americans aren't "hysterical", how ridiculous. It's also not inaccurate. I'm from Texas, right next to Mexico and there is a problem with increased violence caused by drug cartels. Facts are facts and it's perfectly rational to avoid Mexico at this time or have increased concerns about it. Pleny of foreigners also inquire about crime in the US/Canada.

"NUKE 'EM" and let God sort it out, or stay home. Texas isn't that where TO plays football- - - oops used to play football?
If we all worried about things we can not change the legal drug cartel would be geting richer and richer oh they are!!
Use your common sense if you have second thoughts about going, go some where else BUT go and enjoy enjoy enjoy.
Life is a rat race but just stay ahead of the undertaker.

Thank you "colokid" you can take it to the bank that we will have a good time as a matter of fact, even though this is an all inclusive resort, I might be asked to slow down and leave something for the other guests. but i will try not to.
SUN SAND CERVEZA Y CERVEZA Y CERVEZA

YES my dear KNOW-IT-ALL soo-zee!!!

Google your whole sentense:
>>Grenades are being thrown from Mexico over the border into Texas?????????<<

and you'll find out A LOT...

US rattled as Mexico drug war bleeds over border - Mar 1, 2009
For the sheriff of Hidalgo County, in south Texas, where the live grenade was thrown into a bar in Pharr, possibly by street gang members armed by a Mexican ...Swissinfo - 576 related articles »

_____________________

and maybe THEN you will stop being such YOU!

I'm from L.A. County and have tons of friends,acquaintances, co-workers, from Mexico. Many have family there and need to go to check up on family members, but are very nervous about going. A few colleagues just had to go down there a few weeks ago and said that there were areas that were a real mess. I agree with Crosscheck as to the lawlessness and with many Mexican people that I know and come in contact with on a daily basis, it's a regular topic of conversation. Happy Travels!

Now this is totally different -- I'd imagined infuriated Mexicans running up the border and lobbing grenades over the fence, while good ol' boy Texans (just out of range) grinned and finished their barbecues. I don't know if it's worth a visit to Texas for anything less.

I know I'm safer here than in Texas. LOL

I just got back from Puerto Vallarta, with side trips to numerous beach and mountain towns, and one major city (Tepic), and at all times I felt much safer than I would in Cleveland, Detroit, Miami, Washington, Memphis, Houston, St. Louis, or other major crime capitals in the US -- or even in parts of my own city, Seattle, where guns have been going off at an alarming rate.

That Houston Chronicle database has data from five years ago. In Nayarit state, where I spend about half of my time, there has been ONE murder of an American in five years. No American state could say the same. In Jalisco, there have been more, because there are more Americans there. I think TWO in the past year. Consider that there are three planeloads just from Seattle landing in Vallarta EVERY DAY. Cancun gets 200 planeloads from all over every single day.

Out of those tens of millions of tourists, it is inevitable that some will be stupid or foolhardy or just unlucky. But if you stay out of crime-ridden neighborhoods, don't buy drugs from people on the street, don't frequent prostitutes, and don't get competely wasted and wander around with huge wads of bills in your hand, NOTHING BAD WILL HAPPEN TO YOU.

You are much more likely to meet harm in the States than in Mexico, and much more likely to to meet with exceptional kindness and helpfulness from Mexicans in Mexico than crime. Mexicans will come up to you and TELL YOU not to flash your money here, not to go to that part of town, and so on.

Ciudad Juarez? It's a war zone. But you're not going to Juarez, are you? The State Department says use common sense and avoid Juarez. This is standard advice for ALL COUNTRIES -- there are areas of Paris and Rome, Sydney and Beijing, Los Angeles and Montreal, that Americans should stay away from and watch their money in.

This commonsense advice has been cooked up by the media into a sensationalistic story that has no grounds in reality. In turn, some milquetoast college administrators, who have never encountered anything more dangerous in their own lives than an irate parent wanting to know how their daughter got pregnant in the dorms, are saying "don't go anywhere in the country". And other fearmongers go further: I've had friends tell me to my face that the State Department is telling people not to go to Mexico.

That's just not true.

Go to Mexico. Have a good time. It's a rich, varied, and endlessly fascinating country. You stand an excellent chance of expanding your own understanding of the world there, and the only thing you will lose is your heart.

re:Cabron-"I know I'm safer here than in Texas. LOL"

That's not true at all. Texas today is lot less safe precisely because of the crime that has spilled over from Mexico. LOL

"You are much more likely to meet harm in the States than in Mexico"

Not at all true. Most of the USA is safe. Gun violence and crime is usually concentrated in certain bad inner city neighborhoods with a lot of drugs and gun violence ie. think South Central Los Angeles. However these bad inner city neighborhoods make up only a very small part of the USA as a whole. Here in texas, we have had a big increase in crime and gangs from criminals that have come across the mexican border but that is due to our lack of border enforcement. Don't get me wrong, I like and am very familiar with mexico and much of mexico doesn't have a problem with violence or drug cartels but right now there is big problem along the border so for now, I'll steer clear of mexico just like I'd steer clear of south central LA.

"Gun violence and crime is usually concentrated in certain bad inner city neighborhoods with a lot of drugs and gun violence ie. think South Central Los Angeles."

And this is different than Mexico how exactly?

Cancun, Vallarta, Acapulco, Playa del Carmen -- these places are much safer than the rougher parts of ANY American city. Most of the other parts of Mexico are just as safe as the outlying areas of the United States, and Mexico's big cities are no more dangerous than ours.

You're saying "much of mexico doesn't have a a problem with violence" but "I'll steer clear", which makes NO SENSE AT ALL. Your analogy doesn't hold. You're saying in effect, "South Central LA is bad, so steer clear of Salt Lake City and Disneyworld". Cuidad Juarez is bad, but that doesn't have anything to do with Puerto Vallarta AT ALL.

You can find crime in South Central LA or Davenport, Iowa if you go looking for it. Seattle, where I live, is undergoing a drug- and gang-related murder wave right now, which hasn't affected my life one iota so far.

One of the hallmarks of innumeracy in the US is the inability to sensibly evaluate risk. The media in particular is a prime source of this, since they breathlessly cover every violent crime, no matter where, in such a sensationalistic fashion as to encourage fear as much as possible. Study after study shows that people who live in the safest places in America, who get all of their crime information from TV, fear crime the same or more as people who live in the most dangerous places, like west Memphis or East St. Louis.

This is the same phenomenon that makes people terrified of lower Manhattan, where violent crime has become rare (less than most small towns in America) because of something they heard about that happened in the South Bronx twenty years ago.

For comparison: Houston's murder rate is much higher than Mexico's, even including Juarez and Tijuana. Should people not go to Houston? Remove those cities (since you're not going there) and Mexico's falls HUGELY. And that still includes mostly places tourists will never visit.

The places you're thinking of visiting in Mexico are almost certainly safer than the places you're leaving from.

"One of the hallmarks of innumeracy in the US is the inability to sensibly evaluate risk."

Sorry but this is nonsense.

"For comparison: Houston's murder rate is much higher than Mexico's, even including Juarez and Tijuana. Should people not go to Houston?"

People on here keep making the mistake of comparing the USA to Mexico, they are very different. I'm from Texas so I know Mexico very well. When it comes to Houston, its' murders are concentrated in a certain bad areas where there are gangs, drugs and crime. One should not go to the bad areas of Houston and I wouldn't. However, outside of Houston's bad areas, the crime rate is low. However, in places like Juarez and Tijuana, there have been huge numbers of people coming up missing, both Mexicans and Americans, and a lot of problems and violence with the drug cartels. These are not just concentrated in a "bad area." It has gotten dangerous, especially after dark and I've known plenty of Mexicans that won't go to these border cities either. Also, the way the police and justice system operate and the competency of both are very different in the USA and Mexico so this is a big factor. I also realize that many parts of Mexico do have low crime rates. However, until things are more under control, I'm still going to skip Mexico for now as there are plenty of other places to go.

I'll also add that for now, I'm not going to go on cruise ships until they do a better job of policing themselves. They've had numerous crimes, especially rapes and some disappearances which they have hushed up or have tried to cover up. I'm not paranoid. I realize that crime or bad things can happen anywhere but I also realize that you have to balance that with common sense and not up your chances when you don't have to.

Corli33, you keep making the same mistake. You keep saying that American crime is concentrated in bad areas, and that you shouldn't go there; that's true. But you fail to see that you're saying the same thing about Mexico. Crime is concentrated in areas you shouldn't go, like Juarez, JUST LIKE AMERICA.

Avoiding Juarez IS NOT THE SAME as avoiding the whole country. Avoiding Puebla because of crime in Juarez is EXACTLY THE SAME as avoiding Disneyworld because of crime in the bad parts of Houston. You are tarring all of Mexico with the same brush. It's not rational, and it's not correct.

Fact: you are safer in Mexico, as a whole, than you are in Houston, as a whole, and you are as safe in the safe parts of Mexico as you are in the safe parts of Houston.

Avoiding Mexico is patently ridiculous.

Houston's murder rate is not higher than Mexico's - where did you get that stat, fnarf? 1,600 people were killed in Juarez alone last year, and 5,000 in Mexico. Houston averages about 300 murders a year.

See what I mean about innumeracy? Houston has 2 million people, Mexico has 110 million.

"Fact: you are safer in Mexico, as a whole, than you are in Houston, as a whole, and you are as safe in the safe parts of Mexico as you are in the safe parts of Houston."

This is wrong. You keep making the same mistake that the USA and Mexico is the same. THEY ARE NOT!!!"FNARF999" you're from Seattle which borders Canada. The problem is that people from places like Seattle or Wisconsin or Maine, especially the "white yuppies" here on Fordor's, are idealistic and naive. You don't understand the "3rd world". because it is only a place you hear about or travel to on vacation. I'm from Texas and we live right next to Mexico and a lot of their crime and problems spill over into our cities and state. We experience 3rd world problems up front and personal. Unlike you who borders Canada, we know Mexico and their culture and that of Latin America.
Houston has a lot more gangs and crime precisely because our government has not controlled our borders and a lot of this has spilled over into Houston as well as other parts of Texas and the Southwest. The problem right now in Mexico is serious with the drug cartels. Mexico is a 3rd world country in many areas, especially when it comes to their police and justice system. Corruption is the rule of law rather than the exception. "FNARF999", you can go to Canada, which is on your border and if you do become a victim of crime, you are dealing with a first world police force and justice system where corruption is the exception rather than the rule and where there is a competant first world police force who has the latest technology and tries their best to solve the crime. The same holds true for victims of crime in the USA, it is a first world system. While Canada/USA/Europe do have flaws in their police/justice system, there is no comparison to 3rd world systems like Mexico. There is a world of difference. Wake up!!! Mexico has problems with drugs, drug corruption and violence combined with a 3rd world police/justice system unlike Canada, the USA or Europe. There is a huge differnece. This is why I choose to avoid the 3rd world of Mexico and their system. If Canada had violent drug cartels, it would have been taken care of already and there would be no problem but Mexico, its' police and justice system is so corrupt that this is still a problem . The aveage police or judge could be in the hands of the drug cartels. There are many nice individual Mexicans but the country has a whole, I will avoid for now.

"FNARF999 you keep talking about murders but the problem in Mexico is that these people are only listed as "missing" not murdered. For now, I'm going to the first world country of Canada. If crime happens to me there, I know I'm dealing with the "first world."

RBCal....my old friend, lol!

Just back from a week in Tulum(got home last night). We landed & departed from Cancun, no problemos.

I did read travelstate warnings beforehand, as I do for every destination. I actually read the US's, Canadas, Britains etc for comparison.

If you read reports on these sites for Costa Rica, Panama, Jamaica, etc. you'd "almost" be scared out of going ANYWHERE! You need to read between the lines, use good judgement & common sense.

We had a great time, felt comfortable & safe. We were not within the confines of a megaresort, rented a car, did daytrips, & encountered wonderful, kind, helpful & friendly people.

Don't paint the whole country the same color.

How is Tulum these days faithie? So glad you're faithie again. . . .!

We were there 22 years ago, and there were no hotels nearby. I loved its location right on the ocean--beautiful. Good to "see" you. Always the voice of reason. . .

Hi Jill!!!!

Ok, that's "weird".....?

I'm faithie again? How'd that happen, lol?!?

Again to pretend that nothing happens in tourist areas such as Cancun and Acapulco is disingenuous and completely false

Cancún violence overshadows spring break

CANCÚN, Mexico — Students preparing for spring break at this beach resort have a spate of bad local news to factor into their plans: the slaying of an army general; the jailing of the police chief for alleged complicity in the killing; and a link to the feared Zetas drug gang based along the Mexico-Texas border.

The head of the city jail was jailed late last month, and a dozen city police are being investigated after the discovery of a Zetas "cell" turned up a list of authorities alleged to be on the take.

Recent events suggest that Cancún is starting to see the drug violence that has long plagued other cities.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/traveloutdoors/2008827167_mexixospringbreak08.html

The issue isn't whether "nothing" happens, but what the relative risks are. As long as you're cherry-picking scare quotes out of that fearmongering article, you should include this one:

"Alejandro Betancourt Perez, head of the island's separate Tourist Police, said that crime against tourists has decreased over the past year"

Most Americans who die in Mexico are the victims of accidents, drowning, or suicide, not murder. And you are much safer in Mexico than you are at home -- not PERFECTLY safe, because there's no such thing. You could have a heart attack tomorrow -- that's ten times more likely than getting murdered, in Mexico or here. You could get killed in a car crash -- 40,000 a year in the US.

If you're traveling, I can show you places in England and France and Germany and Italy and Australia and Japan and Brazil and even -- gasp! -- Canada that are just as dangerous as Mexico if you like.

But then, if frightened, racist little mice want to stay home and congratulate themselves on having the good judgement to stay in the only perfectly crime-free paradise on earth, maybe that's for the best. The 45 million people who visit Mexico safely every year are probably better off without your company.

Why would that news "factor" into college students plan to vacation in Cancun?

Arguing with RBCal is a fruitless endeavor.....he'll simply keep finding quotes from his seemingly endless supply.

It's always a good idea to do research, check travelstate etc., and be informed.

I don't think anyone said "nothing" happens in Cancun...? Of course there is crime there, it would be silly to say otherwise. But I don't think the arrest of the police chief, & the slaying of the general affects the average Joe on vacation in Cancun.

Jill, forgot to answer you. Tulum was great, we visited two ceynotes, went to Coba, snorkeled in Akumal, ate, and ate, and ate! Ahhhhh....Mexican food. People were wonderful.

O.K. Odd? Now I'm bellaboo again, lol?!
faithie aka bellaboo

Ive been to seedy beach towns in Mexico many times, as I live in AZ. You ALWAYS need to be careful there. It seems that the biggest worry is the border towns. With spring break upon us and the college kids traveling there in droves to get drunk and high, I can see the concern if crime is up. If you are planning on going to a well known touristy area where you will be staying at a busy resort, I would guess you would be just fine. Just dont be stupid. Watch your drinks when you are out. dont wander the streets at 2 am with one other person. Dont drink too much or wander off by yourself.

“Arguing with RBCal is a fruitless endeavor.....he'll simply keep finding quotes from his seemingly endless supply.”

Before you disregard RBCal‘s concerns, I think RB lives in San Diego and our news is peppered with the events going on in Mexico. These people have been brutal. Women and children slaughtered in vacant lots etc. Chances are fair that one could visit Mexico with no problems. But why take the gamble these days? If you have any concerns about going to Mexico, listen to your gut and book that trip to Hawaii.

Not disregarding his quotes at all. Checked safety issues on numerous sites before booking(as clearly mentioned). Made an informed decision.

My remark is perhaps sparked from a thread a few years ago about Costa Rica that some would remember.....(my bad, lol).

Oh brother, long memory. That thread was about getting sick in Costa Rica from the food and water.

And yes, you do need to watch what you eat and drink there if you wish to have a healthy vacation.

FYI
Some posters own property vacation destinations. I still think that posters should disclose any travel agency connections or foreign property ownership before giving advice.

I've never kept it a secret that I own property in PDC. If people ask for info I provide that....where I think good places to eat are, beach club info..., etc. I would think the purpose of a vacation information site would be to post questions on locales people wish to visit and read the information from anyone who has visited or who may be a local. I think the information locals provide is invaluable if you want to know what really is happening in a particular town. If you had been reading this site for the past few years RBCal you would know that. I have nothing to gain financially from anyone traveling to the area as I do not rent to anyone, do not gain anything from hotel sales, etc. I provide info on what I know. There are other forums that are also hosted by locals who live in Playa, Tulum, and Cancun. If I were researching an area to travel to I would certainly read those forums as well. I certainly did before I began going to PDC. I enjoy where I live and like to share that. I fail to see the reason for your continued posting here. You obviously have no intention of visiting and have certainly posted enough negative press so that people know where you stand so I'm sure you have fulfilled your self-imposed need to warn everyone not to vacation in Mexico. As an aside - I talked with my neighbor this a.m. who was off to breakfast and the beach. It's a warm and beautiful day in Playa. Looked at the webcam and it appears everyone sunning on the beach or swimming is having a wonderful time. Didn't see any muggings, looting, or illegal activity. Hmmm...could these people really be having a good time - especially those who are waving at the cam? Or are they just plants put there by the locals ; )

On a different, "I'm not even back from Mexico for 24hrs note.....", lol!

I just made my 1st camarone ceviche from scratch!!!!!!

Oh how I love Mexican food, let me count the ways. Fresh cilantro, sun ripened tomatoes, sweet onions, plump camarones, glossy red pepper, "limon", sea-salt, black peppers.

On a serious, "I am a mother of two children note". I take our safety seriously, I probably do WAY too much research if truth be known. I researched, I weighed pros & cons, looked at the facts, bought my tickets. We went, we loved it, were safe, and are back.

The biggest danger occurred at Dos Ojos Ceynote where an orphaned infant spider monkey didn't want to get off my neck/ head & bit my husband, and screamed when he tried to get it off, then crossed his tiny, long arms, rested his head & went to sleep. Pics to prove it.....

There are dangers in most areas we choose to visit, to RBCal & others, Mexico is a no-go. He's visited Guatemala, which makes me a little nervous....but I'm sure he had a wonderful time. Each to their own as they say. Just do your research, and act wisely.

Safe travels.

Now for those margaritas.......

Something we can all agree on - no one should go to Juarez for Spring Break.

I own no property in Mexico. I don't even know anyone who works for a travel agency, and I have no connections to the travel industry whatsoever. I post here and occasionally elsewhere as a tourist and traveler, that's all.

Actually, for most of the Spring Breakers I'm familiar with, I think Juarez is an excellent destination. Just as long as they go somewhere, anywhere, that I'm not!

"CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG" again if you have second thoughts - stay home or go somewhere else, the world is a big place enjoy enjoy enjoy.

"But then, if frightened, racist little mice want to stay home and congratulate themselves on having the good judgement to stay in the only perfectly crime-free paradise on earth"

Please spare us the TIRED accusations of "racism." Yes, I would avoid the border towns and certain areas of mexico, the dangers are real at the present, just like I wouldn't go to the south Bronx or some god awful place like that. As I said, to each his own.

If the US State Department issues a warning about travel, many travel insurance companies will void their policies. Anyone traveling to Mexico who has travel insurance should read their policy carefully to see if they are still covered.

We just got back from Mexico a few months ago. We went to Oaxaca, Puebla, Xalapa. In Oaxaca, despite local protests, we felt perfectly safe. Puebla was like any big city, you have to watch your surroundings, but we walked freely about the city with no real concerns. Xalapa, we heard some stories from the locals about their concerns, but the streets were full of people and felt safe there also. If you stick to the central not quite as touristy towns, don't drink too much and lose your bearings and good sense, and stick to main streets, you should be fine. I'm from Texas and wouldn't go to Laredo, Brownsville, or El Paso and their neighboring Mexican cities on a bet though.

let me tell u, im mexican and im from mexico, mexico is safe, just use the intelligence and i will recommend u some tips

1- dont show ur wallet in a public area
2- use ur credit cards
3- dont go to bad areas/poor areas
4- respet mexicans and they will respet u, since usa gave them a bad image like haters and u should demostrate them the news r wrong or something
5- have fun in mexico

**note: people who say "dont go to mexico, they are ignorants or jealous they judge without reason even they havent visited mexico, and there is many americans living in some places in mexico like puerto aventura (cancun), chapala (guadalajara, etc.

if u have any questions abt mexico just send me a message and i will be pleasure to answer u

"since usa gave them a bad image like haters and u should demostrate them the news r wrong or something"

The USA didn't give mexico a bad image, the mexican drug cartels did.

corli33 none of the countries are safe even a safe country has danger, and yes in movies, people make to think mexico doesnt have techonology, they live in small town, they use donkeys, mexico doesnt have cars, etc lol they makes me laughing.

An awful lot of ignorant people NOTB.

"corli33 none of the countries are safe even a safe country has danger, and yes in movies, people make to think mexico doesnt have techonology, they live in small town, they use donkeys, mexico doesnt have cars, etc lol they makes me laughing."

I realize all countries have areas that are not safe. However, the drug cartels are causing problems, that's the truth.

"the drug cartels are causing problems."

Not in Puebla, not in Palenque, not in central Merida, not in Isla Mujeres, not in Guanajuato, not in San Miguel de Allende, not in Queretaro, not in Cholula, not in Tlaxcala, not in Coatepec, not in Xalapa, not in Valladolid, not in Campeche... Get the picture?

Stay out of Juarez and the border towns. Don't buy drugs. Don't try to end the drug trade. Then you should be fine.

I think it's clear who's won this debate. If seeing the beautiful colonial architecture of Puebla still makes you nervous, don't go. But you're being irrational.

Im from Guadalajara and i havent had problems and im alive and guadalajara has rich ppl including foreigners living in guadalajara so dont get wrong like every city in mexico is not safe and cuz of drug dealers and stuff, never judge any city if u havent visited and yeah drug cartels not only in mexico also in usa, colombia, spain, etc and yes i agree with Cimbrone dont go to the border just stay out.

"I think it's clear who's won this debate."

Nobody, everyone has different takes on it. However, there is a difference between going to Mexcio and going to Canada. Mexico has a "3rd world" type police force where corruption and incompetance are the norm. Mexico has had 250 women come up murdered, some serial killer(s) are on the loose. Even after all these women, they weren't overly concerned. In Canada, this wouldn't happen because the Canadian police are not corrupt or incompetant. In Canada, you are dealing with the first world and the cops would make a big effort to solve the crime, would be competant and they would care about it, not nearly as much in Mexico. People need to realize that if something does in happen in Mexico, you're on your own far more than in Canada.

corli doesnt matter abt first second and third worlds, in first world there is many xenophobia which goes to the crime same with second world and third world and yeah mexico has high corruption, cuz of corruption doesnt mean tourists cant go to mexico to meet places, there has good polices and bad polices.

have u heard some polices discriminate tourists (from any country) in united states, spain, france, etc. and yeah canada is very safe and less xenophobia than united states to be honest.

"yeah canada is very safe and less xenophobia than united states to be honest."

Canada is not less xenophobic. They just do not have the problems from Mexico coming into their country like the USA does. Here in the USA, we have a lot of Mexicans coming across our border, some of these are criminals and our crime rates have gone up a lot, many Mexicans come here and use our welfare system and have babies and such. I live in Texas and we now have a lot of crime and gangs from Mexico that we did not have before. This costs the American taxpayers a lot of money and causes a lot of problems so they are angry and have every right to be. If Americans, did this to you, you would be very angry. Canadians do not have this problem with Mexican illegal immigrants causing crime or welfare usage in their country so they are not upset with Mexicans like AMericans are, we are sick of being taken advantage of by Mexico and our politicians.

PS-If you Mexicans do think Canada is less xenophobic, THEN GO THERE AND STAY OUT OF THE USA BECAUSE WE ARE SICK OF ALL THE CRIME AND WELFARE USAGE YOU CAUSE. Really, go to Canada, go to Europe. I'm tired of all these people whining about the USA but then coming here, go somewhere else. Better yet, get rid of your government and get a government in that can make you country successful. We have our own problems.

If Canadians had 30 million mexicans coming across their border causing a huge increase in crime and costing them 350 billion a year, they'd be the most "xenophobic" people in the world but it's easy to be liberal and "non-xenophobic" when you do not have the problem like Canada does not have.LOL

reulcepaola- You may want to know-Mexico tolerates NO illegal immigration and allows very little legal immigration yet demands open borders from the USA. Mexico-the world's biggest hypocrite.

corli33.

Now you have "crossed the line" big time.

You have lost ALL credibility with me with your most recent posts.

Exactly, bellaboo. Aside from his obvious axe to grind (sounds like he's much more worried about illegal immigration than Mexican crime), by corli's logic, we should only travel to countries with our standards of law enforcement. Canada, US, and some of Europe are left. Sorry, but there's much more of the world to see. I refuse to live in fear.

It's a shame corli will never hear reggae in the clubs of San Cristobal de las Casas or snorkel off the Yucatan or eat mango sorbet under the collonades of the Plaza Central in Merida. He's too busy thinking that Mexico is the ghettos of Tijuana.

I've been to Mexico many times and I'm not saying do not go only to countries with our standards of law enforcement. I was just responding to some comments on a post. What line have I crossed, that illegal migration is causing a lot of problems? It is? That a lot of people are angry about it? They are? So what's your point??

well, for one thing, what you are dragging into the argument has nothing to do with the original question.

OK, your're seriously asking that question....?

You do not have a clue why I would state, "you have crossed the line"?

Picture "mouth agape".

bellaboo aka "faithie"(long story, lol)

Hi-My girlfriend & I spent 2 weeks in Dec in PV. Walked all around.
My husband & I just got back a week ago from Ixtapa. No problems. We took ataxi to Ziah to do some shopping, had a margarita or two by the fishing area. I asked the owner about the drug problems. He said yes,there were problems and several police officers had been killed but if you stay away from drug dealers you are fine.
Who you need to stay away from in Mexico is the timeshare hawkers-now thats a problem. LOL
My husband & I have a 3 week trip planned the end of the year to Cozumel,PDC and Cancun. Not even thinking of cancelling. Just being cautious. But,you need to be that anyways. Enyoy

When I was in Cancun, our taxi driver offered to sell us drugs. We just said no thanks, and everything continued on as normal.

corli33, u think all mexicans r criminals? have u ever thought "non mexicans" (foreigners) who are criminals crossing in the border between mexico and usa? i think u havent thought, and sounds like u hate mexico then dont visit mexico.

corli33, did u know mexico has illegal immigrations from other countries? i dont think so, since u r being ignorant and u always think of urself. here is a massive immigration from europe, caribbean and south america, and we arent ignorant like u are.

we dont tolerate people like u, we tolerate good people with open mind, im tired of mostly of ignorant people in the states think from mexico to argentina including middle east are "mexicans" which are totally WRONG! mexico is mexican what pity. only few people from USA r nice and they love mexico.

and for other ppl: have fun in mexico and feel welcomed!
note: taste every mexican food if u want to add hot sauce or not hehehe

see ya!

ah other thing corli33 u r immigrant because u arent from the states u r foreigner even u were born in the states u r still immigrant because of ur ancestries, and the real migrants r indian native americans.

The only thing I have heard first hand-----my friend just returned from Puerto Vallarta after staying there for the month of Feb.
A couple from San Francisco was staying in a hotel adjacent to theirs and someone entered their room to rob them through open balcony doors. The woman was stabbed to death and the man is in critical condition in the hospital.

This happened on their 2nd week there, and they were on guard for the next 2 weeks until they left.

Pretty scary! They watched the news, and it wasn't mentioned. They were told it wouldn't be on the news as they were hiding it because of tourism.

I wasn't there, but this was from a reliable friend. They've been going to PV for 13 years and are not sure if they will return next year.

I just got back from Mexico City, second trip in three months. Both times, walked around, took the subway, took public transport, used common sense: no wandering around at night in weird areas, used radio taxis when needed etc.

There definitely is some hysteria at work here. Don't go to the border and don't buy drugs or be a criminal, the rest is just common sense. But certainly, if you're scared to go, then best not to go. Why travel if you feel uncomfortable?

International travel always carries some risk... I was in Caracas in the late 90's when crime was soaring and fear ran high. I was careful and nothing happened to me. Could something have happened to me? Yes, it could have. But would wandering around London been safer? Not if I was in the wrong neighborhood at the wrong time. The scariest experience I ever had as a traveller was being in the wrong place at the wrong time in San Francisco in the U.S. of A.!

The Mexican people are wonderful. Its criminals and mafias are horrible, like those of any country anywhere in the world. So let's not get carried away and paint with too broad a brush.

Wow - this thread has gotten really long (too long). But I just had to add that I, too just got back from two fabulous weeks in Mexico, visiting Puebla, Oaxaca and Mexico City. This was our fourteenth trip to Mexico - we have been all over and love it - the people, the food, the margaritas, the weather.

I agree that to generalize about the entire country because of crime in certain areas is ludicrous. Yes, we were much more careful in DF than we have been in the past, but still went out walking, used the subway, went out at night and loved every minute. We never carried large amounts of cash or our ATMs or credit cards. We made sure to stay in safe neighborhoods at night. We used only authorized taxis - all the normal precautions we would take anywhere.

I'm already planning my next trip and for those of us who love the country and its culture, I don't think this thread is going to make us stop traveling to Mexico. For the others here that are worried, nothing is going to make them go. So, let's just agree to disagree and in the meantime, I am switching to the Chiapas thread. Anyone been?

I too loved PR!!!
However I would prefer to have an honest warning and not to get hurt on my vacation and skip one until it is all calms down. Especially if you are bringing kids with you - you must worry about their safety.
This thread never intended to stop people from traveling to Mexico. Where do you even get these ideas? I wanted to know if it really is the truth or media foam.
I would love to go back and soak up the sun! Are you kidding me?

"This thread never intended to stop people from traveling to Mexico. Where do you even get these ideas?"

From some of the posts on this thread, which seem to be intent stoking fear. Lurid tales of people being robbed in Acapulco? We can come up with all kinds of stories from around the world. But somehow connecting this to the problems on the border is not right.

Re: if there's truth or not to the Mexico warnings, I would say yes, but only for border. In my opinion, the narcos are not interested in killing or kidnapping your average tourist. Mexico is as safe or unsafe as it was before all of this media coverage.

Pegsimba, I couldn't find the Chiapas thread you mentioned. Yes, I've been. Maybe the best trip of my life!

TPAYT your friend is not reliable, the husband was killed, the wife survived with minor injuries. Not a pleasant thing to happen, but it could happen, and does, anywhere.
This is the second death in one year, hope you can say that about your home town.
BTW it was all over the news here.

re: Dulcepaola:"u think all mexicans r criminals? have u ever thought "non mexicans" (foreigners) who are criminals crossing in the border between mexico and usa?"

No, I never said all mexicans were criminals, most are not, but we have had a huge increase in crime coming across the border from mexico, most are mexican criminals but some are not.

"and sounds like u hate mexico then dont visit mexico."

I do not hate mexico, just illegal migration from mexico and all of the problems it causes us and you would to if it were in your country.


"did u know mexico has illegal immigrations from other countries? i dont think so, since u r being ignorant and u always think of urself."

Yes, I know mexico has a much smaller amount of illegal immigrants and they quickly deport them but then demand the USA keep theirs. Hypocrits. I'm don't think of myself, you do, I know entering mexico illegally is wrong, you think entering the US illegally is ok.

"here is a massive immigration from europe, caribbean and south america, and we arent ignorant like u are."

You do not have massive immigration, only a tiny amount compared to the USA. We are not ignorant, quite the oppositve, we are very experienced with this, you are ignorant.

"im tired of mostly of ignorant people in the states think from mexico to argentina including middle east are "mexicans" which are totally WRONG!"

Nobody here in the States thinks mexico to argentina is mexican. You are ignorant.

"only few people from USA r nice and they love mexico."

Nonsense. The american people have spent billions of dollars on free medical care for mexicans who come across our border illegally, welfare, teaching immigrants kids how to speak english ,all at our expense. Mexico would never do this for americans. You are the ones who are not nice. You think you have the right to abuse us.

"ah other thing corli33 u r immigrant because u arent from the states u r foreigner even u were born in the states u r still immigrant because of ur ancestries, and the real migrants r indian native americans."

This is NOT true and your mexico and everyones ancestors came from somewhere else. Nice try.

corli33, look mexico has more immigrants from other countries and yes i know because in my city, i havent seen any native only foreigners like argentina, uruguay, el salvador, etc and u dont know anything of mexico so u cant say. and yes i know USA has more than mexico.

foreigners enter mexico as the first port to cross the border between USA and mexico and united statians in the borders think all ppl r from mexico and that is totally wrong.

what would happen if usa wouldnt have immigrants? then usa wouldnt have money, because with immigrants make USA the richest in the world. everybody knows.


corli33 u r such ignorant omg u r soooooo ignorant, im talking abt indian native americans like cherokee, chicasaw, etc, they are true americans. u arent native and i bet ur ancestors r from UK.

im done, and i see that ignorant person need to have open mind, bless u and peace

Illegal immigrants in the US pay more in taxes than they get back in services.

EXCUSE ME- - - I though this was a vacation forum with helpful hints to fellow travelers. It seems more like a soap box to stand on and bark. Give it a rest lets go back to vacations.
Thank you very much.

We leave for Mexico on Thursday morning - DAM THE TORPEDOS FULL SPEED AHEAD. Riviera Maya, second time in that area and cannot wait to get there. I will take my own advise and ENJOY ENJOY ENJOY.

"It seems more like a soap box to stand on and bark"

Whose "barking", how silly. If you don't like someone's post, don't read it.

"dulcepaola"-"what would happen if usa wouldnt have immigrants? then usa wouldnt have money, because with immigrants make USA the richest in the world. everybody knows.corli33 u r such ignorant omg u r soooooo ignorant, im talking abt indian native americans like cherokee, chicasaw, etc, they are true americans. u arent native and i bet ur ancestors r from UK."

The USA became rich because of americans, not immigrants just like mexico earned its' wealth from mexicans. Immigrants came because of what americans built and we worked damn hard to build it. Of course america is going broke now because of our politicians. Also, I know you are talking about the cherokee etc. They are not native, they came from asia however north america was 99% uninhabited when europeans came. Everyone's ancestors came from somewhere else, yours likely came from spain/asia. However, we are talking about today. Today mexico and the USA are two seperate nations. How dare you say that we americans didn't earn our wealth or are foreigners in our country. You have done nothing but excuse up illegal immigration. You are arrogant, ignorant and selfish and have no respect for you neighboring country's laws.

re:fnarf 999-"Illegal immigrants in the US pay more in taxes than they get back in services."

Illegal immigrants seldom pay taxes. They put 2 billion into the US economy but take 350 billion in taxes when it comes to medical care, incarceration etc.

corli33....

You are "preaching". Trying to impress that your point of view is the "gospel". But it's simply that, your point of view, and it's irrelevant to whether the OP should or shouldn't go to Mexico.

Mexico is out of some traveller's comfort zone at this point in time. That's A-Ok. To others, they weighed the pros & cons, looked at the facts, and decided it was ok to travel. That's A-Ok as well. To each their own.

It did not need to turn into a political debate on how "you" think Mexican's are taking avantage of, ruining, corrupting, draining the American economy.

Perhaps you don't realize(?-HUH?), but you are being insensitive & politically incorrect, and not just for a travel forum, but in general.

To me, what your saying is that the only true "American's" who are deserving of that said title & all the bonuses it comes with are the pioneers who nailed the spikes in the railway or those who trudged by wagon train through the mountain passes...

There is a bigger picture, but I think your missing it.

corli33 is the usual ignorant American, boy, am I glad I left

cabron, there is nothing usual about corli. Please don't lump us together.

faithie - now my son is following you (and I didn't even know it until now!!). 21 yr. old son got back to Mpls. on th 14th after his first college spring break vacation to Cancun. "We had a blast". They took a "party" (I assume) cruise and went to an island. Reminded me of the day trips to Yelapa that are offered from PV. He and his friends had plans to go to clubs if the atmosphere there was positive. He stated "we are watching the news, mom" when I asked him if he knew of the crime occurring on the borders. Can't wait to hear more details in a couple of weeks when we drive up to see him.

>>-"Illegal immigrants in the US pay more in taxes than they get back in services.">>

????????? How do they pay? Illegally???

re: Cabron-"corli33 is the usual ignorant American, boy, am I glad I left"

Americans are not ignorant. You and the other mexican poster resort to name calling and making ignorant slurs towards americans because you have no argument to counter that illegally entering a country is wrong. This shows how you have no respect for other people's countries or laws.

PS-Apparently mexico doesn't like illegal immigrants either. Work shortages caused by mexicans leaving to the USA were filled by indians from neighboring regions. Now the mexicans are complaining that they're causing crime and problems. When illegals are caught in mexico, they are promptly deported. Mexico-what a hypocrit!!!!

re;Bellaboo-"You are "preaching". Trying to impress that your point of view is the "gospel".

No, I'm was answering another poster and expressing myself same as everyone else on here, how silly.

"Perhaps you don't realize(?-HUH?), but you are being insensitive & politically incorrect, and not just for a travel forum, but in general."

Insensitive? How? By saying illegal immigration is wrong??? There is no such thing as "politically correct" in a democracy. Who made YOU the judge of how one should be politically????

"To me, what your saying is that the only true "American's" who are deserving of that said title & all the bonuses it comes with are the pioneers who nailed the spikes in the railway or those who trudged by wagon train through the mountain passes..."

No, but I don't think people should disregard another nation's immigration laws.

"There is a bigger picture, but I think your missing it."

Oh, I get the big picture and it's not pretty.

re:cimbrone-"cabron, there is nothing usual about corli. Please don't lump us together."

Actually, most americans are fed up with illegal migration and want it stopped. Only these naive politically correct fodor's types who can't see the forest for the trees don't have a problem with it.

Ok American Fodorites, here's a question???

The USA has failed to control her borders and as such we have large scale illegal migration, mostly from mexico but elsewhere too. This illegal migration:

-has greatly increased poverty in the USA

-takes jobs from working poor americans

-Costs american taxpayers around 350 BILLION a year(free medical at the ER, incareration costs, education and other social services)

-is causing a rise in diseases like tb,hiv,malaria,typus etc

-has resulted in the deaths of 25,000 americans in the past 5 years, killed by illegals

-has resulted in thousands more injured

-has resulted in 1 million sex crimes in the past year

-has resulted in a large increase in thefts, especially burglary and car thefts

-has resulted in numerous violent gangs

-is overburdening our hospitals and healthcare system, several hospitals in the southwest have had to close down

-is overburdening our schools, programs for american children have been cut in order to teach english as a second language

-this population growth is leading to overcrowding and water shortages in the southwest

HOW IS THIS GOOD OR EVEN HARMLESS FOR AMERICA?

This is a travel forum and this is a post addressing traveling to Mexico.

If you want to debate whether immigration has been the downfall of the US (or lay the blame where it belongs with the Bush-Cheney cabal), take it to the fodor's lounge.

tully has it exactly right, including the part about the Bush administration's responsibility for turning a blind eye to illegal immigration in deference to the corporate interests who want cheap labor. That said, take it to the lounge!!

P.S. I'm against illegal immigration, too, corli. But I'm smart enough not to get it mixed up with travel to Mexico.