Europe is not the only place to travel to, is it????????

Gosh darnit, Europe is a big place and it takes a while to see it all. Don't like it? Too bad. No one is stopping you from going wherever it is you'd like to go, so why moan and groan about other peoples' choices?

I like to go to Europe to check out the hot German blondes.

okay, I've been misunderstood. I agree one can never see all of Europe in one trip. I just can't understand why so many people focus on Europe and neglect to consider visiting Asia, Africa, South America, etc. I'm NOT moaning and groaning about people who choose to visit Europe. I AM moaning and groaning that some people only consider visiting Europe. That's all.

So Germanblond - exactly where have you been? I would like a list to all of your past destinations, then maybe I will get Europe out of my mind and culturally improve my life. Shame on me for being so simple minded.


By the way I have been to Paris four times and this coming April it will be my fifth. I guess I reallllyyy am simple minded

I can't speak for others, but...

I've gone other place besides Europe. But when I do, I usually find myself saying, "I should have gone to Italy or France." I just have not found anywhere I enjoy as much as some specific places in Italy and France.

I agree, it is good to experience other cultures and destinations besides Europe, but money and time dictate I maximize my travels by doing what I enjoy most. I am making a choice based on my experiences and desires.

I guess everyone is different and people make choices based on different factors. Live and let live.

How do you know from visiting this Europe board where else people have been? I've been to many places other than Europe, but I tend to post here most because Europe is what I know most about. I don't understand how in the world you would know that "people focus on Europe." Of COURSE we do here - it's the EUROPE board.

Vanilla and chocolate, my dear. My roots are in Europe..... I lived in S Fla..I have no love of the tropics....Europe is my destination of choice. You go elsewhere. I will go to Europe.

First of all I have no desire to visit Asia. I would love to go on an African Safari and I would love to visit Egypt. It's been a life long dream of mine but I don't feel it is quite that safe at this time.

We should go to places that make us happy not worry about making someone else happy

Madison, I am not going to turn this into a look at the destinations I've been to thread. I have been to 30 plus countries on 5 continents. So, yes, I have travelled outside of Europe, and yes, I will go back to Europe, but I'll visit the other continents too.

My comment about the Europe board was that it is the most active, so in turn, more Fodorites are planning to visit Europe then elsewhere. I never said the people on this forum have only been to Europe and only travel to Europe.

I disagree, you are moaning and groaning about the choices of others. You are also calling those people

narrow-minded
simple-minded
ignorant
and
having an attitude of what exactly??

You are making broad assumptions, germanblonde and it's not very nice.

I wonder why so many Europeans travel to North America? Aren't they interested in other parts of the world -- or is there bias in your thinking?

Well, then, maybe because it's just the bestest continent.

Not to mention that for "people from North America" it's cheaper to go to Europe usually than to Asia or Africa and maybe even to South America.

Madison, sorry - you're over your Paris allotment. Forfeit your tickets to the Fodors police tout de suite. That's l e n n y b a @ givit.com.

Many in the US and Canada focus on Europe as a destination because the cultures are often somewhat similar to our own. Australia is wonderful, but it's a seriously long flight. Much of Asia is perceived as open and desolate (think China or Russia once you get out of the large cities), or are very poor and kinda scary (some of the eastern European countries, or southeast Asian countries, much of central and South America, and much of Africa) or are very limited in what you can do (when many people think Australia they only think of the beach).

Valid or not, those are often the perceptions of areas. For many Americans, we simply know the European history better so it's more interesting. There may be less of a language barrier... many Europeans speak english and many Americans speak a bit of a single foreign language. French, spanish and german are the most common to be offered in high schools and universities.

I've been to the European continent once, the UK and Ireland once, and I'm planning another trip to the UK already. Just because I return does not mean that I don't want to go to Asia, sometimes it just works out better to go someplace you already know and love. It's hard to look at going somewhere else when I love one place so much.

Thailand is always one of your best "value for the money" destinations. Easy to reach from the West coast.

Lennyba. LOL...sweet! Tout de suite....great!

Europe and the Caribbean are fairly close.

English is a second language in these places.

They are beautiful, old, full of culture / history.

Natives are nice and welcoming.

Most of us have roots there.

What's so hard to understand about it really?

Unless you're buying my airfare, why do you care?

I don't think, "...oh, we'll be safe in Europe, but ? I would never go there!"

I live in San Diego, it's a multi cultural city. People from many places want to live here but you don't see that many Europeans who come here and don't want to go home.
Why should I go to a place that no one wants to return to? That's got to tell you something right there.

Seriously, I love going to Europe because I love great art and great architecture.

I love visiting Europe (Eastern, Middle, or Western) and enjoy the art, architecture, traditions, and so forth. But that doesn't mean I haven't been to Asia, South America, and Africa as well...with Australia planned for 2010. But I'll be more likely to post more often in the Europe and US board areas (as well as this funny ol' Lounge) because, well, I have more to say. There are so many countries in Europe, each different (I love when Malta questions come up!) and I've been to more of them than countries on the other continents.

I have always been interested in Europe, always wanted to go, especially to France, ever since I was a kid. Other places sound interesting but don't sing to me as loudly.

Lenny - you are hilarious, thanks for the laugh.

Seetheworld - you hit the nail on the head.

Asia is my favorite place to visit. Well, I like the parts I've seen anyway. I like the food, I love the buzz, I like the way you're sucked into being a part of what's happening, rather than just a paying guest. Actually, Morocco feels this way too. In Europe, I often feel like the only people I come in contact with are paid to be in contact with me. Now that I think of it, that's actually both a pro and a con, depending on what I am looking for in a trip.

Other people probably have a lot of reasons to choose Europe, or some part of Europe, as a favorite. Sure, China or Japan or India has just as much history as anything in Eruope, but think about the ethnicity of large percentage of who travels from the US. Perhaps there's a connection. Or that fact that European History is taught to some extent in US schools from a very early age, and Asian history... well, perhaps in college if at all. It's almost assumed to be a shared history, of "us", in it's European-American centric view. So that could be a driver.

Or maybe it's how easy and undemanding European travel is. The transport, the tourist service infrastructure (yes, that exists in Asia too, but people don't know that if they don't research it), the perception of safety, the familiarity of languages (diverse true, but compared to the tonal languages?). It seems, and IS, easy to get to a beautiful spot, order a wine and cheese and relax and live there in your head for a couple of weeks.

Isn't it all good?

Germanblond - Maybe if you tell us something about some of the countries you've been to, other than Europe, you might inspire us to visit these places.

We are waiting with baited breath.

When I was a young child and saw pictures of Greek and Roman temples, I was hooked forever. I drew pictures of them. I made tinfoil models, etc. Then I saw pictures of Renaissance paintings. I became an artist and art teacher. Much Art and Architecture of the Western world has it basis in Greek and Roman Art. Modern painting techniques and styles evolved from Europe. That is my interest and passion.

As a matter of fact, Italy is my specific passion. Modern medical research methods originated in Italy. The most advanced sculpture, design wise, originated in Italy. The development of linear perspective in drawing and painting originated in Italy. The study of nudes for painting began in Italy. Dome building originated and was perfected in Italy. So, we owe much in modern medicine, art and architecture to The Roman Empire and Italy. Given a few more minutes to think about it, I know there is more, but. . . no need for that. I didn't even mention the food. Oops, just did.

While visiting China is on my list of places to travel, Asian architecture and Art just never drew me in the Greek and Roman Art and Architecture did. I am also planning a visit to South America soon, but that doesn't matter. I think I have answered some of your questions.

Now, my question to you? If you honestly want an accurate answer to you question, why must you phrase it in such a judgmental, argumentative

Visited and enjoyed other places, but seldom gone back.
The wealth of cultures,languages, art, history, the natural beauty e.t.c. found in Europe is hard to beat.

Don't call me narrow minded because I prefer Barcelona to Beijing!

People don't go to Europe because the Europe forum is the most active. You've got it the wrong way around. The Europe forum is the most active because Europe is the most popular destination.

Oops, sorry, cat stepped on my keyboard and I posted before proofing or finishing. Meant to say, "never drew me in the way Greek and Roman Art and Architecture did."

To finish my question to you. If you honestly want an accurate answer to your question, if you are sincerely interested and truly wish to have an understanding of the enormous interest of Americans in Europe, why must you phrase it in such a judgmental, argumentative, condescending way? You have already concluded that any reasons people have are wrong and based on narrow minded thinking. You have already condemned most people as ignorant. Why, therefore, would you care about, or value, the answers, opinions, views, reasons offered by people of whom you think so little?

Why do most people go to Europe and the Caribbean? Relatively speaking, they're both cheap, easy, and the flights aren't horribly long from the East coast.

I've been to Japan- it was wonderful, I would love to go back, but I would refinish my hardwood floors myself again before I'd do that flight in coach again.

Oh, I forgot, I have a house there. That's why I go there a lot. Kinda makes sense, no?

I have made multiple trips to Hawaii because:

1) I live on the west coast and the flight is a pretty reasonable length and cost.
2) DH can't be gone from his job for more than 8 or 9 days.
3) We love it there.

If I were on the east coast I would probably have been to Europe more frequently.

I think this largely summed it up:

Europe and the Caribbean are fairly close.

English is a second language in these places.

Particularly from the East Coast, Europe is simply MUCH easier to reach than Asia or Africa. More flights, lower fares, shorter distance, etc, etc. It is 20 hours from New York to BKK, for example. You can reach much/most of Europe in half that time, non-stop, for less money. Even from LAX, the longest leg to BKK is 18 hours, even non-stop. The longest leg from LHR-LAX is 11 hours. The most accesible Asian destination is Japan, but it is still a long way, is still expensive, and English is not widely spoken.

Africa is another issue entirely. Much of it is either unsafe and/or lacking in basic conveniences that makes travel there exceedingly difficult. Getting there is a pain, as well. And safaris are expensives, often obscenely so. Egypt, though, is probably underrated and far more accessible than much of the rest of Africa.

The other issue you have is that many Americans with the means to travel are older and from a different mindset. Asia has only recently started to assert itself as a cultural power and the lingering idea that Europe is unique in its history or culture is a hard thing for many to shake. I think this is what you describe as narrow-minded, and I don't necessarily disagree, but it is at least understandable.

Then again, I think you could ask the same question about Europeans. They go to Egypt and Thailand, sure, but a lot of them go for the beach. They aren't really breaking new ground any more than an American going to Puerto Vallarta or Aruba. Indeed, most Europeans I know go to Greece, Southern Spain, etc for holiday and stay at soulless resorts that would make an American blush. And my flights to the US always seem to have a lot of Europeans going that way. I think most people like to travel where it is comfortable and easy, and Europeans are no exceptions.

All of that being said, I don't disagree with the idea that people are really missing out by focusing on so exclusively on Europe. I love Asia and have been there 6 times in the past 2 years. Egypt was one of my favorite experiences so far, and I never made it out of Cairo. I am planning a trip to Africa for next year. There is a whole wide world out there.

Places, like products, have brands (reputations). Europe's is well established and positive for a number of reasons.

Travel to many parts of the world is a relatively new possibility for the average traveller. It will take awhile for some of these places to establish positive brands. Some may not be able to. Until then Europe will be a favoured destination.

For some reason I have never wanted to go to South America. I don't even start the research process. Why is that I ask myself. The people I know that have gone have loved it. The brand process at work.

I like Clifton and travelgourmet's measured responses.

Travel, like food, is a subjective thing. We all likes what we likes...and don't tell us any different, please!

There are so many places in this world that I haven't been to than have been to that travel will always be an adventure of discovery.

Travel is different experiences than what I could have at home. It's getting invited to enjoy a sauna in Finland. It's getting a marriage proposal in Pakistan or Burma. It's seeing the beautiful beaches of Cancun for the first time. It's all these experienes that enrich my life, most particularly it's meeting the peoples of the other nations and being invited to look at life from their perspectives, even if for a sliver of time.

I repeat much of what is said above. Americans like to go to Europe because for most of us, it is our background, has lots to do and see and is friendly to tourists. I also would like to go to places like Egypt, Africa and Asia, Austrailia, etc..,but they are either unsafe in many places or too far and expensive. I might reach some of them someday, but right now we are focusing on saving money for college and everything else in life.
It is not a narrow minded attitude, it is an attitude of safety, proximity, and affordability. Not to say , europe is cheap. Because it is very expensive for the average american to vacation in europe. For many, it is a once in a lifetime trip. For the people on fodors, it is more often because here we do without new cars and everyday luxuries to travel. Many of us here have taken our kids to disney world, but we don't want to just go to epcot to see the world. We like to experience the real thing..

Another one here on the East Coast of the US.

It's MUCH cheaper AND QUCIKER (almost all flights are direct) to go to Europe than S. America, Hawaii, Alaska.

Asia is much more expensive and takes forever (a huge consideration when one has only 2 weeks vacation per year), starting with a 5 hr. plus flight just to get to the West Coast of the US.

Austrailia from the US East Coast even more so. Again, all flights leave from the West Coast of the US.

Also not everyone who posts on the Europe board is a seppo. Lots of us are Europeans looking to go to other bits of Europe. Most Europeans holiday in other parts of Europe. I'm going to Italy soon. It's gonna cost bobbins (flight about £50 and hotels at around €60 a night).

If you went into a British High St Travel Agent you'd think we only went to Spain. (The same would be true in Germany).

The first post I opened this morning. You know what? Where and why, and when I travel is my business, and where you travel and why is your business. Have a nice day.

Oh goody. Another NA basher. WTF possible difference does it make where other people go on vacation?????

Get a life.

<seetheworld on Nov 4, 09 at 8:51pm
No one is stopping you from going wherever it is you'd like to go, so why moan and groan about other peoples' choices?
<<seetheworld on Nov 4, 09 at 9:08pm
You are also calling those people
narrow-minded
simple-minded
ignorant
and
having an attitude of what exactly??
You are making broad assumptions, germanblonde and it's not very nice>>>>


I agree with seetheworld's comments above.
And, for the record,
I'm "German-AMERICAN blonde STEELERSFAN
who has been to over 40 different countries
on 4 continents, and hates those not so very nice
broad assumptions."
I'm also not fond of posters who come here to ask "What's wrong with....other posters/anyone who doesn't do it my way"... Now, THAT is attitude!

So, germanblonde, please take your broad ass umptions and have fun in Pakistan and Somalia, and rest assured that the rest of us are capable of making our own travel choices.

Holy Christ some of you. This issue is discussed among government tourist agencies around the world. GB may have used one or two questionable words but give her a break. It is a legitimate question.

Well until I got off the plane, I thought the Czech Republic and Spain where the same place. Did you know they actually speak different languages?

And the I found out the rivers that run through Paris and London are not the same, but they are both water. Did you know that?

And that German blondes do not laugh as often Italian black heads. I got so much to learn.

I have been to Asia, but my heart lies in many of the locations I have been to in Europe. Why? Because it suits more of what my spouse and I look for in a vacation. We are both avid lovers of history, and we appreciate architecture and beautiful landscapes. We do travel outside of the typical European destinations.

I would love to go back to Asia, or to South America or Africa but in all honesty the airfare prices are just too high for our meager budgets. I'm sure Buenos Aires is inexpensive once we get there, but at $1200 a ticket that is about double what we pay to fly to Europe (during off-season, which is when we typically visit) and we just can't justify that cost.

I think its fantastic when anyone chooses to travel outside of their home country, regardless of their reasons. While I may not always make the same choices, I don't think it's any of my business to question why they choose to go where. Everyone has their own opinions on what makes a great vacation.

Tracy

Some people are really taking this WAAAY too personally. There is no doubt that far more Americans travel to Europe than to Asia or Africa. I mean, there might be nearly as many seats available on the NYC-LHR route as there are from the US to the whole of Asia.

I think it is a fair question to ask why Europe is so popular.

I think it is fair to invite the op back.

What have you learned, Dorothy germanblonde?

>>I cannot understand why so many people in North America consider travel to be limited to a trip to Europe or a sun destination (Carribean) in the winter. <<

Pretty broad assumption. I think it's pretty arrogant to assume that other people make travel choices simply because they can't think of anything better. Personally I have always wanted to go to South America, Africa and Australia and New Zealand and India and Japan and Thailand BUT Europe and the Caribbean are:
1. Really easy to get to - generally one flight for me
2. MUCH cheaper to get to than the other places mentioned

Someday I expect I will make it to South America and possibly the Australia/New Zealand. The others - hard to say -unfortunately a few of them present health considerations for me (e.g. A close friend LOVED India but absolutely did not recommend it for me because of asthma issues (suspended particulate in the air causes major breathing issues for me). If it wasn't for that I would be looking for cheap flights to India right now.)

Colduphere and Travelgourmet- my thoughts exactly.

<<Well until I got off the plane, I thought the Czech Republic and Spain where the same place. Did you know they actually speak different languages?>>

NO! Why didn't you say so earlier, Aduchamp? I'll be in Spain on Monday and I've been frantically studying my Czech phrasebook. Ohhhhhh nooooooo. I'm doomed. AAAAAAAAAHHH.

Travelgourmet - yes it was a fair question but it was the "tone" in that question and the "tone" in her remarks that so many of us found annoying.

Some people are thrilled to just beable to make it to Europe then Germanblond comes aboard insulting people calling us narrow minded.

I also have no desire to go to India because I wouldn't beable to handle seeing all the poverty in that country. Not every building is the Taj Mahal.

Agree with colduphere and travelgourmet too.

You all read the *entire* OP and realize this isn't a judgment on you personally, right? No need to fling oneself on the plastic grenade.

1) The question came up because of what the OP found on offer at a travel agency. I've had the same experience more than once, which is why I stopped going to TA's. They are obviously geared to send people to these places because that's the demand.

2) The take on why people might be choosing Europe came from 1st hand conversations with people the OP knows. They seem to have thoughts that history and food originate in Europe. It might make most sense to ask those people, but as a general travel topic, it seems like an interesting bubble to poke at.

That said, even considering all the constraints of cost and time (which don't seem to stop more people from the west coast going to Europe than to Asia as well), I'd suspect if we posted another question... "if you could be beamed instantly and free of charge for a week of holiday, where would you go?", and people didn't know it was spawned off this thread, the answers would still skew heavily to Europe. And I don't see anything wrong with that, but I think you'd see much more of the breathlessness that lingers over the notion of a Europe trip. Here, phrased this way, it might come out a bit more pragmatic when people feel called upon to analyze the reasons.

See Poohgirl, You learn something new every day here.

Did I mention that the Alps are not in Spain either. I hope that doesn't run your trip even more.

I know so many people who vacation solely in the US because they say, "it's such a big country with so much to see". I have the same excuse except I go to Europe instead. I don't solely vacation in Europe but I'd say I do "mostly".

OK, a serious answer.

The original poster thinks for some reason Europe is monolithic or that one country can be seen in two weeks or that familarity is evil.

Spain for example is truly several countries united by a fictional borders. Catalunya in language, custom, architecture, and history is extremely different than Galicia. If one is interested in more than a cusrsory understanding, then multiple trips would be necessary. And we haven't adderessed the differences between countries.

The other wrong assumption is that people have not visited other areas.

The other issue is time. We live on the East Coast of the US and until recently we did not have the time to explore Asia in the manner we wish.

Last year we were set to Madagascar but the collapse of the economy and a civil war there stopped us. Next year we hope to go to Turkey which will only annoy the OP 1/8 because we intend to spend most of our time in the Asian part of the country.

Adu - thank God(s) I saw your serious answer because I was about to quote you:

"There is a group on these boards that disagreement translates into idiot. They are also big on charazterizing someone who does not agree as closed minded. Insecurity is a major disease here."

Now I don't have to quote you.

Cold-

Thank someone or something you did not quote me, because I am going to charge $1 American for every usage.

And please do not confuse sarcasm with any other characteristic including intelligence. Otherwise I will have nothing to say. Got that.

<<I also would like to go to places like Egypt, Africa and Asia, Austrailia, etc..,but they are either unsafe in many places or too far and expensive.>.

Right now with the euro-dollar exchange rate, there are countries other than those in Europe that are not too expensive.

I love Europe but have also traveled to Australia, New Zealand and Fiji; Morocco and Egypt (both safe and not so long flights, esp Morocco from JFK).

I live on the east coast and flew to LA, spent the night at an airport hotel and flew next day to Sydney. The money was in our favor and there were plenty of Americans taking advantage of it.

South America is not difficult to get to either and was not expensive, at least in Chile and Argentina.

I think Germanblonde has made a broad assumption and should check out the Asia (my next trip) and Africa forums and will find a lot of American travelers there.

It is undoubtedly true that various nationalities go to different places.

There are parts of Spain that could pass for Blackpool (with sun) and next to them will be Munich on sea.

There are all sorts of reasons why we do this. Firstly we like the weather, secondly it's as cheap as chips (you can get a week's holibob with flights and hotels for £250) and thirdly we know what to expect when we get there (British beer, fish and chips and pubs called Churchill's)

We don't go on holibob to Eastern Europe.

The Dutch on the other hand like to go caravanning and take chocolate sprinkles every where.

Chacun a son gout……

The only thing I do find a bit odd is the assertion that somehow because most seppos have European ancestors somehow you'll not find too much of a culture shock. In truth you are very very different from us. But somehow it seems that "europe" is not percieved as being as foreign as say Argentina.

CW, see the following: http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/a-chacun-son-got.cfm.

Don't shoot the messenger.

I never understand this kind of thinking. Why does someone care where other people go on their vacations? What's it to them?

Adu - your quotes are always insightful and intelligent. I am happy to pay one dollar for each usage and will be especially happy to pay in American dollars in the future. I will pay by "cheque", not "check". I am not sure what "checks" are.

Cold- perhaps Adu could be persuaded to Canadian Tire money.

Good point Boots - at least it maintains it value.

I want loonies and lots of 'em.

A cheque is a lot like a balanque.

GermanBlonde, your post might give a clue as to why North Americans dislike Germany. Just kidding.

Seriously, I believe a lot of Americans with European ancestry feel such a kinship when they visit Italy, France, Ireland, England and that is why we are drawn there. Simple as that. Returning to roots.

Having said that, my ancestors came from Ireland, and I would love to visit South Africa. Go figure.

That said, even considering all the constraints of cost and time (which don't seem to stop more people from the west coast going to Europe than to Asia as well),

But much of Europe is still more accessible to the West Coast than much of Asia. Shorter flights, more destinations, etc. Yes, Asia is relatively closer to the West Coast, as compared to the East Coast, but that doesn't mean it is as close as Europe.

Consider the following non-stop destinations from LAX and the great circle distances (in order):

LAX-NRT: 5451 mi
LAX-LHR: 5456 mi
LAX-CDG: 5669 mi
LAX-FRA: 5806 mi
LAX-ICN: 5994 mi
LAX-HKG: 7260 mi
LAX-BKK: 8270 mi
LAX-SIN: 8770 mi

LAX-SIN is less than 800 miles shorter than EWR-SIN. They are #1 and #2 in terms of the longest flights in the world. Heck, LAX-DXB is closer than LAX-SIN and only 69 miles shorter than LAX-BKK.

The original poster thinks for some reason Europe is monolithic or that one country can be seen in two weeks or that familarity is evil.

But the same could be said of Asia, as well. Or South America. Or the US. Heck, even the Caribbean. That Paris is different from Prague does help explain why you would go to one over the other, but it still leaves open the question of why you chose London over Bangkok.

germanblonde, i can understand the reason people are reacting to your post. europe & the caribbean are realatively shorter inexpensive flights over. europe holds a fascination because many americans travel to view the famous art galleries, historical battlefields, cathedrals, and see where our our countries history started.

HOWEVER, you are absolutely right, many travelers only think of Europe and limit their travels there. I have to admit I am one of these who thinks about more exotic travel places and then - voila, we decide to go back to England AGAIN!

So you have a very good point. I do think people who travel often to Europe might re-consider other continents. It's not a bad thing!!

Well, those yodeling lessons were a total waste of time, not to mention buying those designer lederhosen was a waste of money. Next thing you'll tell me is that I can't go visit those Saint Bernard rescue dogs, either. Sheesh. Now I'll just have to go visit that boring Alhambra.

I started this thread after having a conversation with a school friend on the same subject. Some of you don't like my choice of words in my op, the words were not to be offensive or a personal attact and the op was directed solely to Americans but travellers in general. I apologize to the people who didn't like my choice of words, I was just trying to get my point across. Next time I'll ask my friends who speak English as a first language for help, or I simiply won't come and post in the lougne if this is the kind of feedback I get.

Second, I take offense to the accusations calling me Dorothy/budman? Who's that, a fodorite who writes a lot in the lounge who others don't like, I'll assume.

Those of you who's family have left Europe many generations ago have little or nothing in common with the Europeans today. There is a difference in being from the new world or the old world. (Cholmondley_Warner touched on this). I don't thing of an American whose family came three generations ago from Ireland to be Irish American; to me these people are American. Should the Asian Austarlians limit themselves to travelling to Asia, or the Jewish Canadians limit themselves to travelling to Isreal? NO. Unless you have family in Europe, I don't understand this being a valid arguement. If your ancestors came from Spain for example, your roots are not in Austria, England and Sweden too.

I never realized that European history was taught in school in the US and Asian/Africa, etc history wasn't. I wonder if this is the same elsewhere? Maybe that would explain why so many people travel to Europe.

I am sure that how the countries are marketed, by tourist boards, travel companies etc. Have something to do with the too.

I've seen alot of great sites in Europe and I would like to see more of the continent. I will also travel back to the other continents I have been to, except Australia. I know not all people like the same thing, but some highlights from my travels outside Europe are the Great Wall, Machu Pichu, Chichen Itza, Bangkok, Tokyo (loved Japan, Kyoto, Osaka, Tokyo and Nagoya) and Hong Kong. Of course, there have been places I've visited outside Europe that I didn't like, however, there are places in Europe I've been to that I didn't care for either. Not everyone likes the same places/sights/countries, etc.

Oh, and at present I am living in North America, and therefore the travel brochures, etc that are available to me are for North American customers.

East African safari countries are my absolute favorite, favorite, favorite places to visit but it's dreadfully expensive and the flights from California take forever, you have to remember to get your visas, malaria prophylactic, Yellow Fever shot up to date, etc. Europe is cheap and easy. I have extended a three-day weekend by two days once for a quick jaunt to Rome. Can't do that to Lamu or the Serengeti.

But my next trip is Rwanda and Kenya!

" but it still leaves open the question of why you chose London over Bangkok.'

Have not been to Bangkok , but have visited Hong -Kong, Cairo,Japan, Israel, Australia, NZ, Mexico,China ...
The reason I keep going back to Europe is simple : I find European culture ( museums, galleries, languages, art, architecture, history e.t.c.) more interesting than that of other continents.

I understand your question OP and don't take it as a slam. I do, however, wonder what the stats are for US citizens going to Mexico and Canada. I'd be curious to see if they're higher than Europe.

Speaking for myself, I did Europe many times when I was younger and would like to go back to Italy when older and less mobile. By that I mean that I'm more inclined to do more adventure or longer distance traveling while my body is mobile.
For now most of the southern hemisphere holds more interest for me, dive spots, African safaris or river trips, etc. Asia, Antarctica and S & Central America.
Course, now that my finances are stretched less costly trips to cities in the US, Canada and Europe or a trip to Belize or somewhere semi close to dive may be all I'll be able to do.
Logistics, money, mobility and pace.

<<"I never understand this kind of thinking. Why does someone care where other people go on their vacations? What's it to them?">>

Simple, some of us are more curious than others. Think of it as a conversation about the new restaurant in town. Some of us just go, some want to know who else has gone and why, some want to know what the place looked like, what the prices were and exactly what they ate. I'm in the last category. The same applies for my interest in others travels and they're whys.

I want to know what they drank, how much and were the waiters cute.

A major part of why I travel to Europe (and I'm going to Mexico next month) is money. I can afford to go to these places. Earlier this year, I checked out the cost of going on a safari in Kenya and was absolutely floored at how expensive it is. I could easily go to Europe twice (with money left over) for what it would cost to go to Kenya once.

Another factor is the hassle factor. Even traveling from California, I can get to Europe and Mexico with only one flight change and in a lot less time than it would take to get to most other continents. Call me a wimp, but multiple flight changes requiring over 24 hours of travel just takes a lot of the fun out of travel.

And even though it's been a couple generations, I still would like to see Budapest, in large part because my grandmother grew up there.

I agree with you germanblonde, partially....

One of the posters said that it was unsafe, dangerous to travel anywhere else outside of Europe - all I can say is WOW? what made them think that?

I have been to ~50 countries on all continents except Antarctica and with the exception of Afghanistan, I never, ever fell unsafe or thought the places were dangerous.

Africa - Loved all the countries. Walked around at night, walked into a back street bar in Cairo. Got the warmest welcome to a locals (only) bar I ever received anywhere. Kenya, South Africa, Morrocco, etc... Wonderful history, warm people, rich culture, cosmopolitan, everything a traveler would want.

South America - in short - JUST GREAT!

Asia - Love every country I've been to.

Middle East - We're going to Dubai in few weeks. Can't wait.

Central America - Been to few and all I can say is that I want to see the rest. Same feelings about the Caribbean plus it's just great fun in the islands....

but, for most of Americans, Europe represents some kind of connection to their ancestory. It also feels safer, more culturaly connected, easier to get around.

Can I say that I blame the folks that save all year long for their 2-3 week vacation and decide to spend it on a place they're familiar with yet feel it's something different, something exotic, something foreign? No I can't.

So, that's why I try not to ask the same question on Fodors, but I did suggest in some previous posts that people should venture to other destinations. Then I just realized that for many Europe is as exotic as Hanoi street mmarket is to me, or being shot at in Afghanistan (that one turned whatever natural color hairs I had to a totaly grey look).

No need to ask why others do what they do. It's their choice.

My last three big trips were Ghana, Turkey and London. Europe provides me with entertainment, food, history, etc...Ghana and Tukey were trips that opened my eyes to a world vastly different than my own. So I'd put categorize them differently (more adventure than holiday). And I believe it is good to have a blend of the two. Oh, and the other places tedn to be cheaper than Europe. I lasted almost 2 weeks in Ghana on US$500, travelling across the country.

Europe will always be my favorite, but these other places may be the ones that give me the best memories. And, someday, if the money gods are kind, I'll spend a chunk of the year living in Europe.

Next trip is looking like Yemen/Jordan.

>>Some of you don't like my choice of words in my op, the words were not to be offensive or a personal attact and the op was directed solely to Americans but travellers in general. I apologize to the people who didn't like my choice of words, I was just trying to get my point across. Next time I'll ask my friends who speak English as a first language for help

Germanblonde- I surmised that English wasn't your first language, and discerned that your post wasn't meant to slam anyone.

>>I never realized that European history was taught in school in the US and Asian/Africa, etc history wasn't. I wonder if this is the same elsewhere? Maybe that would explain why so many people travel to Europe.

An interesting point which lends validity to the original question.

Simply, I love Europe. I have no inteerest in Asia (mostly) nor the Middle East. South America & Iceland (part of Europe I guess) are very high on my list. TIme also comes into play when traveling to Australia or Asia, particularly when you are toting a 4 & 7 year old about.

1) I've never patronized any travel agent, or even been in a travel agent's office, so have no idea what they offer/tout or why.

2) I'm from the US. I saw parts of Asia - in fact lived there for a couple of years - before I ever saw any place in Europe. I've also traveled through various parts of the South Pacific. But when it came time to drag our (at the time teenaged) kids on their first big overseas trip, it was Europe we took them to.

So I am guilty of the predilection for Europe that you speak of. In fact we just spent the last year living in Europe (although that was for DH's sabbatical so was influenced by other factors, but we purposely chose Europe as the place to look for sabbatical opportunities.) I am even part owner (through my family) of a quite beautiful house in Costa Rica that I've never been to! Can't really explain my lack of interest ...

In fact, who can explain interests and preferences? It's sort of like trying to explain to someone else why you love your husband - everything you can possibly say is banal and the exact same words could be used to describe many other people: he's "intelligent" , "kind", "loving", "funny", whatever. Such "reasons" don't really convey why you married him rather than one (or more) of the many other intelligent, kind, loving, funny human beings on the planet.

Similarly, almost every place on earth has "history", "beautiful scenery", "interesting cultures", etc. Unless you have been to every square foot of the planet, you have used some sort of prioritizing algorithm (based on interest, finances, or whatever) to decide how many/which places you've been. If you go to Asia, how do you decide whether you go to Thailand or Japan or Vietnam? If you go to all of them, how do you decide how much time to spend in one country vs. another? In Japan do you go to Tokyo? Kyoto? Hokkaido? etc. etc.

It's all a continuum - no one can ever really return to the "same" place - the world changes, the people and experiences change, you yourself change. So some people have a "new" experience returning to Tuscany as often as they can, others have a "new" experience by successively exploring many different areas of India, others have a "new" experience by going to a different country or continent. It's all good.

germanblonde --

"Second, I take offense to the accusations calling me Dorothy . . . "

It was just a reference to a famous line near the end of "The Wizard of Oz," -- I simply thought some of the responses might have changed your perceptions. Sorry you took offense -- none intended.

Don't know why the subsequent poster mentioned budman.

Why I travel to Europe? Because I leftmy Soul,my Heart there.Besides I have lived for few years in Asia.

leely,
Your scouting skills are quite marketable. I see an opportunity for a roving cute guy critic. Museums, coffee shops, beach, the DirecTV guy - it's endless.
Who needs food critics when you've got cute guy scoop.

You can't assume that folks are narrow minded just because you don't like their choices!

I was born and reared in the Middle East. Before I was 13 years old, I had travelled around the world several times (I have the accordian air tickets . . . ).

I like to visit Europe because I think it's the prettiest. I live in Germany now --

Yes, it's totally subjective.

s

cybor, I like the way you think. We should team up and make this happen. With your entrepeneurial spirit and my cranky jocularity we can rule the world.

What is this thread about, again?

Are we on the wrong thread?
I thought this was the bites, boys, booze and why you like them thread.

This is the Europe board.
Generally I've found far more Americans travel WITHIN THE U.S. for their vacations than go to Europe.
I've met a few that were disgruntled they had to get passports for Canada and the Caribbean... not Fodorites of course!

So be grateful for those European brochures, lol

>>I never realized that European history was taught in school in the US and Asian/Africa, etc history wasn't.>>

This is definately not true. History of world cultures is part of a required curriculum in California, and I know other states have this mandate as well for high school graduation.

Some of the comments on this thread made me count how many countries I have been to I have been to more countries than I had though, I been to 43 countries on 5 continents. I plan on visiting Egypt next year, I haven't been to Africa yet. Would like to go a safari someday too, and yes, the safari's I have looked at are very expensive.

Depends on the country and type of (African) safari. There's anything from self drive, river canoe trips to plush catered private camps with plunge pools and butlers.

germanblonde - I would have appreciated to read something about you - on your personal information - which might have offered a clue WHY you ask the questions you are asking.

Well, let me tell you - the fact that the Europe forum is the busiest on fodors doesn't say anything about the Americans (as this is foremost used/visited by Americans) and their general travel destinations. The traffic at the Europe forum might have misled you to get the wrong conclusions.

I have travelled Asia, Australia, the whole lot of South Pacific incl. Papua New Guinea, America, Central America and now formemost travel to Africa and within Mediterranean Europe.
Travel preeferentials change - based on experience, financial background, education, interests etc etc etc

I choose the destinations I visit very carefully and let me assure you: Despite CHINA becoming favourable as you state (BTW flights are extremely cheap on LH to China!) I would never dream of visiting China because of their lack of Human Rights as well as animal treatment.

On my side making a choice is far more than just selecting destinations or collecting destinations because they are favourable.

The reason many Americans (besides other nationalities) like to visit Europe despite it's expensive based on the exchange rate makes me happy of being a European and living on that great continent. Europe is the most diverse continent on Earth offering so many cultures, great diversity of nature, history, arts etc etc all complimented by fantastic infrastructure which makes travel easy and (mostly) safe.

Finally - asking a question on travel habits is one thing but hiding any personal information is another.

Don't you wonder why many posters are willingly providing you with information despite you are hiding yours?

SV

I WISH I could travel to Europe every year!

<<I thought this was the bites, boys, booze and why you like them thread.

Where's that?! That would be tons better than 90% of what is currently in the Lounge.

cybor on Nov 5, 09 at 12:23pm
I understand your question OP and don't take it as a slam. I do, however, wonder what the stats are for US citizens going to Mexico and Canada. I'd be curious to see if they're higher than Europe.>>>>


Here's one listing,cybor, from Visa:
Top anticipated trip destinations among Visa cardholders who traveled internationally in the past three years and are likely to travel internationally in 2008 include:



1. Canada (46 percent)

2. Mexico (45 percent)

3. United Kingdom (28 percent)

4. Italy (27 percent)

5. France (24 percent)

6. Bahamas (24 percent)

sassy_cat on Nov 5, 09 at 2:26pm
This is the Europe board.



No it isn't.
Europe is not the only place to travel to, is it???????? Posted by: germanblonde on Nov 4, 09 at 8:38pm
Posted in: Fodorite Lounge

Sometimes the Editors move threads. Perhaps this one STARTED OUT on the Europe forum?

No, I started this thread in the Lounge yesterday, not sure why some people are asking if this is posted in the Europe forum.

Steelersfan, I would assume that alot of the people who visit Canada are people who live near the US Canada border in border towns. It would be interesting to know how many people actually visit Canada as a traveller. (ie, not as a one day trip from a border town), I;d imagine alot of Americans would visit Canada as part of a summer road trip, others would possibily fly to Canada, but this would be the minority rather than the majority.

As for the rest of the list, Mexico and the Bahamas are sun destinations, all the other countries on the list are European destinations.

SV, what personal information am I hiding. I have already mentioned I have visited 43 countries on 5 continents. Is this what you are referring too? I've been to Australia, New Zealand and Fiji, the first two countries I've been to three times, Fiji, once. Asia I have visited multiple times and seen various Asian countries I have returned to a few. Europe, been multiple times, have seen most of Western and Central Europe, Britian and Scandinavia, never been to Eastern Europe. South America, I've been twice (and both times to different regions/countries), I;ve been to the Caribean, Mexico (various times/different parts), US (~25 states), Canada, etc. The purpose of the thread was not how many countries I have been to, if that was the case, I've have started, yet another how many countries have you been to thread. Notice, I haven't responded on any of those threads.

This was not intended as a germanblonde has been to ? countries bragging thread, this was to encourage some people to consider venturing outside their comfort zone and to consider travelling worldwide.

St. Cirq mentioned it was the Europe board too (6th reply).

I thought I posted on the Europe board but who knows?!

Steelersfan, I did like your list of popular international destinations for Americans but I still think the majority of American vacationers stick within the US.

Ok so germanblond says she posted in the lounge.. my apologies.

It's much worse than you think germanblond... only 23% have passports and only about 10% of them leave the country.
OK the stats were from 2007 before you had to get a passport to go to Canada, Mexico etc but it's still LOW.

<<"I;d imagine alot of Americans would visit Canada as part of a summer road trip, others would possibily fly to Canada, but this would be the minority rather than the majority.">>

My uneducated guess is as anecdotal as yours but huge amount of Americans go to many places as vacations in all parts of Canada during all seasons.

Montreal/Quebec City is our closer version of Europe. I've gone up during the winter to ski, spring to river raft. The outer coastal areas attract people all year by boat, car and air. Most of the people I know fly rather than drive up to Vancouver - this may be different from those on the west coast. Scores of people fly up to hunting fishing country year round, as well. These trips are more than day trips.

As for Mexico, you're forgetting about the many inland locations such as Mexico City which has a huge tourist influx and other places like San Miguel, the deserts, canyons, etc.

<<this was to encourage some people to consider venturing outside their comfort zone and to consider travelling worldwide>>

Most people on this forum do that already. Your advice might be more useful among people who rarely or never travel.

Nowadays I visit Europe, but it was not always thus...

In my younger days, I lived in and toured Japan, visited Okinawa, Thailand, Greece, Egypt, Cyprus, Israel....I've lost track of all the places I visited. Russia, Ukraine, Turkey...the former Yugoslavia. Romania...

As for Canada, I've spent time in Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver, Victoria, and Nelson--several days in each city, not one-day trips. Also Mexico.

I had a trip booked for China a couple of years ago, but my travel partner (my sister) had a heart attack, so we had to call it off.

Australia and New Zealand hold no interest for me, though my nephew and his family have done considerable travel there, partly because his father-in-law comes from New Zealand.

I'm interested in architecture, history, languages (Spanish and German), art, countryside. I like to stroll around, stop for coffee, take in the ambiance in cities with rich cultural histories.

I do not like beach life, though I always enjoy Hawaii, probably because I love the air there, and I don't lie on the beach. It's also a fairly short flight to Hawaii. I can get there in six hours or so, whereas it's usually about 16 or 18 for Europe.

I'm always intrigued by the fact that Germans or Austrians I've known will go to places like Morocco or Libya. I guess it's too sunny for me.

There are places I visit again and again--Germany, for one. I've just spent some time in Quedlinburg and Lübbenau and have realized there's much I haven't seen in the former GDR, and I want to see more.

I haven't seen much of Poland (only Krakow) or the Czech Republic (just Prague). I haven't visited the Baltic States. I've been to Denmark, but not the rest of Scandanavia. I visited Yugoslavia, as I said, but not since it broke into separate countries. I'd like to spend more time in all these places, but I also love spending time in countries I've visited often.

<<Second, I take offense to the accusations calling me Dorothy/budman? Who's that, a fodorite who writes a lot in the lounge who others don't like, I'll assume.>>

Germanblonde, Don't be offended by the Budman comment. I've been accused of being whoever that is too.

I find this thread interesting, and understand your reason for asking the question. Maybe after reading some of the posts by people who have ventured beyone Europe one or two people will consider traveling to another continent.

Cybor, I'm doing that same thing you are, trying to travel to the faraway countries while I still can.

Some of our reasons for sticking with Europe:

I cannot tolerate very hot places, and hot, humid ones are worse. I actually get sick and my legs and feet swell up too much.

DH and parents lived thru WWII in a Japanese prison camp (I should say barely survived). So he is not interested in any place where there is unrest or danger. "Been there, done that, not interested."

We've been to Mexico and Central America and found them too hot. And too uncomfortable.

At our age we prefer more sedate vacations. We do like touring on our own in the US, Canada, Hawaii (not in summer), and Europe.

Well it seems that we have dear Abby in the lounge.

Steelersfan, I would assume that alot of the people who visit Canada are people who live near the US Canada border in border towns. It would be interesting to know how many people actually visit Canada as a traveller. (ie, not as a one day trip from a border town), I;d imagine alot of Americans would visit Canada as part of a summer road trip, others would possibily fly to Canada, but this would be the minority rather than the majority.
As for the rest of the list, Mexico and the Bahamas are sun destinations, all the other countries on the list are European destinations.


And?
I was providing the Visa survey for the other poster who wondered if more Americans might be visiting our neighboring North American countries than going to European country.
??You want people to go where there's no sun? What's wrong with what you are calling 'sun destinations'. Heck, we had 23.5 hours of sun when I went to Iceland!

Germanblonde:

I don't recall seeing an explanation of someone calling you Budman and Dorothy. Budman was a neo-conservative poster who irritated people.

"Dorothy" refers to the girl in "The Wizard of Oz," whose most famous line (to her dog, Toto) is, "Toto, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore." She says this after she lands in the very technicolor land of Oz.

By the way, we're kind of touchy.

I continue to travel to Europe because it's a place I love.

Would love to visit Australia and New Zealand but probably wouldn't survive the long flight from the US due to a bad back. I could barely walk after our last 10 hr flight to Frankfurt!

Considering that the majority of Americans have never been out of the country, I'm quite happy to at least be one of those who has.

"Would love to visit Australia and New Zealand but probably wouldn't survive the long flight from the US due to a bad back"

I would love to go back to Australia and NZ;
although my back is fine, the thought of 20h flight and 5 days of jet-lag will probably keep me from doing it. The
$$$$ airfare is another reason.

How odd, I click on the OP's name and there is no prophile?

I do have to say, I do understand the part about distance. I've flown from the central US to Australia quite a few times now and it's not that easy to sit still that long, and I'm 46. Same with SE Asia.

I'd always figured I'd switch up to mostly Europe trips in about 20 years, once I was looking for those more sedate trips too. Of course, now that we're moving to Oz, Europe will be as far away as anyplace else.

In the meantime, my mindset is like cybor's. Go to the other places on my wish list that are a bit more demanding while I still feel pretty mobile (how I do wish I'd have been able to travel in my 20's though...)

Oh, two things about that Australia flight for those that are interested:

Qantas and ANZ both run some pretty decent specials from time to time. We have a flight in December on Qantas that we booked in August that was $573 round trip from LA (we used FF miles for the domestic part to get to LA, but otherwise it would have added $180). That's not too far off of what I was seeing to Europe at the time.

And Qantas's A380 is outfitted with a self-service galley with snacks and sodas and such. That flight gets to me too, even with the new ergo seats, the movies on demand and the seat back games and such, so I'm planning to do a number of walk arounds and stops in the galley, etc.

"this was to encourage some people to consider venturing outside their comfort zone and to consider travelling worldwide."

Most people will not be "encouraged" by someone looking down her German nose at them and talking to them in such a patronizing, finger-wagging manner.

>> Why would anybody want to go there??


Marketing
Airfare prices
Distance
Ethnic heritage
Own property there
Family connections
Emphasis on European history taught in schools
Emphasis on European languages taught in schools
Many US-Europe study abroad programs
Work / Business
Friends
Food / Wine
Architecture / Art
There's always something new to discover
Multiple cultures and languages on a relatively small continent
English is widely spoken

and just bias. True or not, so what if many people prefer to travel to Europe?

I don't use a travel agent.

Travel for me has been a progression.

I don't like to fly, so until we moved to Switzerland we traveled from our home to the beach by car and ferry and very occasionally flew somewhere like CA or the Carribean for a winter break from cold CT winters.

Now that I can take a one or two hour flight to a lot of places, I've done so. In fact, I've become a better flier. I also love that I can take a train to Paris, Florence, Munich, or a bunch of other great destinations. It's easy, fun, and better for the planet.

From Europe, it was pretty easy to go to Morocco and I had a reason to go (school trip with my daughter) and did. (Although I will disagree with the poster who said "we felt safe everywhere" because as a woman traveling alone you will not feel safe and no one will let you go anywhere alone.)

Morocco opened me up to Africa in general. Plus, I'd always wanted to go to Sub-sahara Africa as a volunteer. My daughter and I did that last summer (Tanzania) for 3 weeks. All our cultural changes with our move and other travels (food, language, toilets, etc.) made that trip a success for us. Some people in our group just couldn't adjust and went home early, but we were fine - we also only had a 9 hour flight and no jet lag which was really nice. We plan to go back to Africa this summer. Funny thing, we were underwhelmed by the whole safari thing. We loved the people, the culture, the landscape. But as my daughter said, "mom, okay, after a while, they're just zebras, you know?" She hit the nail on the head for me.

Now I feel ready to go to China - a place that has fascinated me forever, and hopefully my daughter and I will go next year with school again. I have also always planned to go to India as I love the culture, was a Yoga teacher for many years, so I'm sure I'll get there.

We will spend Christmas in Egypt, but I will confess it was not chosen as a cultural destination - we just wanted a warm spot by a pool. I'm sure we will throw in a few cultural activities.

My older daughter is very interested in the Middle East and plans to study Arabic. She has made a good friend at college from Lebanon. She has been invited to visit, and this is another country I have interest in, so I will try to get myself invited along.

I have long had Israel on my list, but I have heard after going there, you are not able to get a visa to certain Arab countries, so I will save that trip for a while. Plus, it seems an easy trip from the US for after we move back home.

Nevertheless, Europe is just so simple to get to and to navigate once there, and so varied and kind of like Disneyworld in the sense that you can see so many different cultures and sites so close to each other. There is something nice about the shorter flight and not needing special visas, a guide, a million vaccinations and malaria prophylaxis etc. etc.

So, I say enjoy Europe, and if you get bored than the rest of the world is waiting for you!

gruezi

Did anyone else notice this?
OK, maybe I have a sick sense of humor, but I loved the irony in seeing that germanblonde started another topic yesterday, but in the Europe forum:

Posted by: germanblonde on Nov 4, 09 at 2:55pm
Posted in: Europe
I am thinking of visiting Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary an neighbouring countries when I visit Europe next year.

Ahh, so apparently germanblonde wants to keep Europe to herself and send the rest of us off around the world... ?

Those of you who's family have left Europe many generations ago have little or nothing in common with the Europeans today.


I disagree.
When I traveled in Europe (which was after I'd traveled in Asia, South America, and Africa...) I met many nice people with whom I found much in common.
Of course I found much in common with the nice people I met in Asia, South America, and Africa.

Another reason: limited vacation time.

U.S. workers don't get the generous vacations that Europeans do. Even when I had three weeks on the books, I was never allowed to take more than two weeks at a time, too short to fly to Australia or Asia. I used to fly to Europe for a week or ten days. Now that I'm not working I can take as long as I want and go where I want.

Nice post Gruezi.

<<"Those of you who's family have left Europe many generations ago have little or nothing in common with the Europeans today.">>

I also disagree.
That's like saying that you can wean people out of love of food, family and wine. Some cultural things never change.

Get a bunch of Italians from all generations together and believe me, they will find something to talk about.

Luisah, you made an excellent point and another reason why I choose to travel to closer destinations. The company I work for only allows for one-week vacations at a time. As much as I loved my trip to Japan a few years back, the flights were so long (I live in Charlotte and had to endure several layovers) and the jetlag makes it difficult to justify a return visit unless I have more time to visit.

Americans do like to visit Europe, but the same can kind of be said for the Europeans that always seem to visit the same places when they come to the US ....California, Las Vegas and Death Valley, NYC...what about the rest of the US?

Tracy

Those of you who's family have left Europe many generations ago have little or nothing in common with the Europeans today

Wow, I missed that. What an odd statement. I've had no problem finding common ground for conversations with Europeans during our visits, or theirs here. Perhaps you're just trying to rationalize why you're not fitting in during your stay in NA?

Besides that, people do come for more reasons than to chat you up, I'm sure. For instance, all those relics and ruins of history were there when part of our family left in the late 1800's. Were you under the impression that those 1000s of years of history were just erased by a boat ride and we have no personal or family histories greater than a century or so? Our family helped build those things too, didn't they? (mine's from the Mosel valley and around Lippstadt).

Speaking only for our little family, I don't get the "Asia is too far for two weeks" argument. It took us 15 hours to get to Tokyo from mid-eastern Canada. It was an amazing experience and certainly worth the few hours more than it took us to fly to Rome this past summer. It took us 24 hours to return fron Xian. That wasn't nice but I would do it again tomorrow. Jet lag and all.

I will admit the idea of flying to Australia for two weeks gives me the willies. But that is more the lack of leg room in economy class.

Clifton - your comments on the A380 are helpful. Right now we are looking at flying via Auckland on a 747. I don't know if I can pull the trigger on this one.

Just want to add that I have two highschoolers and two years of high school (public) here in Virginia are spent on World History, not European History. World covers the world in its entirety. I can't imagine not teaching about all over not just where the europeans came from?? After all, America is a melting pot of more than just european immigrants.
We also spend years on US history of course.

I travel to Germany to experience it present day, not the museums or castles. I read daily the newspapers via Internet. Since I lived there 30 years ago I like to see the changes, use my language skills, square dance, visit relatives & friends, stroll the streets & shops, & read the local newspapers to check on movies, concerts, etc. The best part is that I can now have contact with my relatives in the former East Berlin. The fall of the Wall lets me visit the towns of my ancestors. And nothing can beat the Broetchen, chocolate, & marzipan. Fun to take side-trips to neighboring NL, France, & Belgium.

It took 24-30 hours (door to door) to get to/from New Zealand for a two week trip and it was worth every minute of flight. I've friends who do mileage runs to Japan for 4 nights - not optimal, but they enjoy their time there - they also happen to be road warriors though.

Just want to add that I have two highschoolers and two years of high school (public) here in Virginia are spent on World History, not European History. World covers the world in its entirety. I can't imagine not teaching about all over not just where the europeans came from?? After all, America is a melting pot of more than just european immigrants.

Well, there is "World" and "World". The reality is that you aren't going to be spending large amounts of time studying colonialism in Africa in your typical high school history class.

For the most part, such classes are taught with an eye toward how the US fits into that world and the reality is that the US has had more intensive interaction with Europe than it has with the other continents. We've had more immigration from Europe, we share a common legal system with the UK, we have adopted more from Western Thought than from elsewhere, etc. The history of the US can't be told without significant reference to Europe. Not even at a cursory level. The broad brush of the history of the US could be told, however, with barely a mention of India or Africa.

India maybe but Africa?

The triangle trade, slavery, the Civil War, amendments to the Constitution, the civil rights movement and the challenges still facing us today, all, scatterings of Africa, shall we say . . .

Fra_Diavolo: Fair enough, but only to an extent. I doubt many high schools are going to go into enough depth on slavery to require deep study of how instability on the continent made it possible to capture so many slaves. Most take it as a given and drop in the triangle trade so that the non-slave states don't get off without some culpability.

And, regardless, I would say that the enduring impact of African culture on the US pales in comparison to the enduring impact of European culture (right or wrong). Heck, the very notion of and justification for slavery came from Europe and they bought the rum to boot. So even when discussing slavery, as much of the story is rooted in Europe as in Africa.

tcreath re: "... the same can kind of be said for the Europeans that always seem to visit the same places when they come to the US ....California, Las Vegas and Death Valley, NYC...what about the rest of the US?"

Yeah, it used to drive me crazy to meet people in various places I've traveled and IF they'd been to the US at all, they seemed to all have been mostly to the spots you mention. With the "sun tourists" also hitting Florida.

I can't tell you the times people would say something to me like, "The US is so hot, dry, and crowded." This not very accurate impression of the US is evidently left with those who've done heavily-marketed tours that consist entirely of a trip to LA and Las Vegas, with a drive-by of the Grand Canyon. (Since I was living in Oregon - not known for being hot, dry OR crowded - when I received many of these comments, I found it very funny/frustrating. And Oregon is bigger than some of their countries.)

It's analogous to an American meeting someone from Sweden and going on about how "All of Europe is so hot, dry, and crowded and the traffic and smog are awful" because they'd been to Athens.

I used to be embarrassed that LA and Las Vegas were what comprised their entire impression of the US ... but what can you do? If that's what they want, that;s what they're entitled to get - it's their choice.

Well not all slaves came from Africa, after all.
Regardless, in my day we studied the so called classics of the beginnings of civilization. Those were mostly the people who beat the hell out of their help to build Pyramids, had great orgies and developed words like sodomy, gluttony and sloth (sloth's my favorite).
Perhaps that's where we went wrong but then again, perhaps that's the lure, LOL

< Posted by: germanblonde on Nov 4, 09 at 2:55pm
Posted in: Europe
I am thinking of visiting Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary an neighbouring countries when I visit Europe next year>

I was under the impression that GermanB. already lived in Europe..

The reality is that you aren't going to be spending large amounts of time studying colonialism in Africa in your typical high school history class.

My daughter actually spent a ton of time studying colonialism in Africa (and elsewhere) in her high school history classes. She took AP World History and European History (as well as US) and the first two spend a lot of time on colonialism/imperialism. Then, for English she read Conrad's "The Heart of Darkness" as part of a discussion of Imperialism. Even in middle school my kids learned about colonialism in Africa.

When my younger daughter and I visited Tanzania this summer a local history teacher came and gave us a brief history of his country. The interesting thing for many African countries is that colonialism actually united often tribally divided people - not to mention the introduction of education and modern medicine. (Not defending colonialism - just interesting that Africans see this side of things as well.)

Go to Africa when you are tired of Europe!

gruezi

Steetlersfan, do not quote me out of context, the sentence you are quoting is part of a paragraph where I write:-

"Those of you who's family have left Europe many generations ago have little or nothing in common with the Europeans today. There is a difference in being from the new world or the old world. (Cholmondley_Warner touched on this). I don't thing of an American whose family came three generations ago from Ireland to be Irish American; to me these people are American. Should the Asian Austarlians limit themselves to travelling to Asia, or the Jewish Canadians limit themselves to travelling to Isreal? NO. Unless you have family in Europe, I don't understand this being a valid arguement. If your ancestors came from Spain for example, your roots are not in Austria, England and Sweden too."

In short, just because you ancestors came from Europe, it doesn't make somebody European if the family left Europe ages ago, and that person is born and raised elsewhere.

As for the thread I started in the Europe forum, you incorrectly write that I started it after this thread. I started that thread before this one, and if you'd check my recent posts you may notice I am planning a trip to Africa too. What's the point of bringing up the thread I started on the European forum on this thread? I've already said on this thread, I'll continue to travel in Europe, and other continents.

I'll start planing my trip to Pakistan and Somalia after
you travel to Afghanistan.

<<"I don't thing of an American whose family came three generations ago from Ireland to be Irish American; to me these people are American.
In short, just because you ancestors came from Europe, it doesn't make somebody European if the family left Europe ages ago, and that person is born and raised elsewhere.">>

There's an interesting thing that I notice in the US - most of us still consider ourselves to be whatever nationality that our ancestors were.

I discovered this quickly when I lived in England and got confused looks from them when they asked my nationality. My auto pilot spewed my ancestors nationalities rather than where I was actually from (Hey, I was young). I learned quickly to not do that.

At the time the English were English, possibly because they've been there forever. Same with many other countries that have a longer history than the US.

I did, however, run into many Africans in different African countries who won't tell you which nationality they are but rather which tribe they're from.
Many whites there will tell you which country they're ancesters are from as well. This may be Germany or even S.Africa.
Like us many want to check out they're origins.

I wouldn't discount the pull of people wanting to go to the origins of their 'known' roots. It's possibly more typical than you think.

cybor, I do realize that people do want to explore the country/countries where their ancestors came from. I have a friend whose family left India many generations ago, and she has visited India many times to see the sights. However, she doesn't care to visit neighbouring countries or countries that were formally part of India (Pakistan, Bangladesh).

I can understand why someone whose family left Ireland 100 years ago, would want visit Ireland but I cannot understand why this person would consider there roots to be in all the other European countries too.

<<"I can understand why someone whose family left Ireland 100 years ago, would want visit Ireland but I cannot understand why this person would consider there roots to be in all the other European countries too.">>

Are you referring to a specific person/s here, as I'm not sure why you'd say this.

I think a lot of people here aren't the type to use travel agents; I think we're also the type to travel farther afield.

The only time I used a travel agent was to book a cruise, b/c I got the cheapest deal that way. All our travels, even to Mexico, Canada and Europe, I've booked myself. I'm sure travel agencies know their clientele.

>> The interesting thing for many African countries is that colonialism actually united often tribally divided people

(sorry gruezi, with all due respect...)
United divided tribes? SO...FAR.........from the truth.


Colonialism in Africa has only brought destitution to this continent.


The curse of Africa's artificial borders as a result of colonialism and then decolonization --

Sad, complex tales in all of these regions:

South Africa / apartheid
Nigeria
Democratic Republic of Congo
Sierra Leone
Ethiopia / Eritrea


>> not to mention the introduction of education and modern medicine

Yeah, not to mention the introduction of agribusiness (which bankrupted local farmers) and HIV/AIDS.

What else...
Poverty
Illiteracy
Malnutrition
Inadequate water supply and sanitation

Of course, we can't blame *all* of this on colonialism (Obama recently mentioned this)... but it's certainly exacerbated the situation.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/5778804/Barack-Obama-tells-Africa-to-stop-blaming-colonialism-for-problems.html



http://www.globalissues.org/article/84/conflicts-in-africa-introduction

Unequal International Trade; Comparative Disadvantage

Colonialism had thus transformed an entire continent. Vast plantations and cash crop-based, or other extractive economies were set up throughout. Even as colonial administrators parted, they left behind supportive elites that, in effect, continued the siphoning of Africa’s wealth. Thus has colonialism had a major impact on the economics of the region today. Various commentators, mostly from the third world observer that colonialism in the traditional sense may have ended, but the end results are much the same.

An interview with former Tanzania President, Julius Nyerere captures some of this:

"I was in Washington last year. At the World Bank the first question they asked me was “how did you fail?” I responded that we took over a country with 85 per cent of its adult population illiterate. The British ruled us for 43 years. When they left, there were 2 trained engineers and 12 doctors. This is the country we inherited.

When I stepped down there was 91-per-cent literacy and nearly every child was in school. We trained thousands of engineers and doctors and teachers.

In 1988 Tanzania’s per-capita income was $280. Now, in 1998, it is $140. So I asked the World Bank people what went wrong. Because for the last ten years Tanzania has been signing on the dotted line and doing everything the IMF and the World Bank wanted. Enrollment in school has plummeted to 63 per cent and conditions in health and other social services have deteriorated. I asked them again: “what went wrong?” These people just sat there looking at me. Then they asked what could they do? I told them have some humility. Humility — they are so arrogant!

… It seems that independence of the former colonies has suited the interests of the industrial world for bigger profits at less cost. Independence made it cheaper for them to exploit us. We became neo-colonies."

<There's an interesting thing that I notice in the US - most of us still consider ourselves to be whatever nationality that our ancestors were>

Ditto Cybor, I have noticed it also.However,I feel that if a person is born in the US, they should consider themselves Americans without any need of Hyphenation as for example.Irish-American,Italo-American etc.., etc..,

He/She may add while talking with someone about his/her origins that his G.Granparents, mother or father came from Ireland or Italy or France etc..

My now growns children may say that Mom is from Rome and are very proud of their 50% Italian blood, but I never heard them say that they are Italians-Americans, as far as they are concerned, they are just "Americans".

In this matter I agree with germanblonde.

cybor, maybe I am not explaining this properly I'll try again. I am not referring to a specific person. I am referring to people who's ancestors came from ? and therefore they intend to visit ? and make multiple trips other parts of Europe to explore their roots. Like I said before, if ones ancestors came from Spain, that their roots are not in Austria, England and Sweden too.

nancicita, you bring up an interesting topic when you mention colonial rule. Today, much of the explotation in the poorer countries is done by multinationals.

<<"I am referring to people who's ancestors came from ? and therefore they intend to visit ? and make multiple trips other parts of Europe to explore their roots. Like I said before, if ones ancestors came from Spain, that their roots are not in Austria, England and Sweden too.">>

I guess I understand what your saying but I don't know of anyone who says that their ancestors are from, say, Italy and therefore they must visit all of Europe to explore their roots.

<<"However,I feel that if a person is born in the US, they should consider themselves Americans without any need of Hyphenation as for example.Irish-American,Italo-American etc.., etc..,">>

Theoretically your right to a degree but that raises all kinds of PC and other issues. Those who are proud of their ancestry should have the right to say so.
I basically don't care if people hyphenate or not. It's a personal choice kind of like hyphenating one's married name.

<Steelersfan, I did like your list of popular international destinations for Americans but I still think the majority of American vacationers stick within the US. sassycat>

I agree, those definitely were listed as
Americans planning international travel.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


germanblonde on Nov 6, 09 at 2:17pm
Steetlersfan, do not quote me out of context, the sentence you are quoting is part of a paragraph



I quoted the complete sentence to which I wished to respond.
You said "Those of you who's family have left Europe many generations ago have little or nothing in common with the Europeans today."
and I said I disagree.
Adding more sentences does not change the fact that I disagree with what you wrote in the sentence which I quoted.

How's the planning for that trip to Eastern Europe coming?

germanblonde claims: As for the thread I started in the Europe forum, you incorrectly write that I started it after this thread. I started that thread before this one


No,dearie, you do err when you claim that!

geben Sie zurück und lesen Sie das wieder mit der Präzision und Aufmerksamkeit auf das Detail
and you will most likely notice what you misread.
For the record, it doesn't matter a bit to me, which one you started first.

<<"I am referring to people who's ancestors came from ? and therefore they intend to visit ? and make multiple trips other parts of Europe to explore their roots. Like I said before, if ones ancestors came from Spain, that their roots are not in Austria, England and Sweden too.">>

I guess I understand what your saying but I don't know of anyone who says that their ancestors are from, say, Italy and therefore they must visit all of Europe to explore their roots. cybor

I never saw nor heard a word from that hypothetical person either, cybor.
OTOH, there are plenty of Americans whose roots happen to be in a number of different European countries (or countries elsewhere). PLENTY of "Heinz 57" Americans, and some of them probably like to go to Europe.

Hey, Steelersfan, I'm a germanbrunette, lol.

"Those of you who's family have left Europe many generations ago have little or nothing in common with the Europeans today."

Says who? You?

Im an American first, An Italo-American second because my parents were both born in Italy.
So there!

http://travel.aol.com/travel-ideas/domestic/national-tourism-week/galleries/vacation-trends-us

This survey claims approx. 67% of American travelers intend to vacation within the US... (not Europe!)

As mentioned somewhere along this thread, not that many U.S. citizens even HAVE a passport. So it's not like there's some stampede to Europe. The premise of this entire question is simply incorrect.

I would like to go Europe next summer, anybody have an opinion on that?

That's is great,Adu..Have you chosen your favourites countries?

See you there, Aduchamp1! We're going to Italy!

I think I am going to one them European countries, Zanzibar.

Paris is not France as the average. Most of the people we met across France had not been out of the country. That's usually in rural areas but so what!

Germanblonde you seem to have trouble keeping your stories straight.

seetheworld on Nov 6, 09 at 6:20pm
Hey, Steelersfan, I'm a germanbrunette, lol.
"Those of you who's family have left Europe many generations ago have little or nothing in common with the Europeans today."
Says who? You?


No, I didnt say that, germanblonde did!

colduphere, sorry to post and run earlier. We're running a sale here to get rid of our household stuff and people started coming.

I've done that trip via Auckland. That is, if you're talking about a quick stop/connection and not a stayover. If it's because you're going to NZ first, ignore the rest of this.

I hate to say anything that might cause someone to make a decision just based on something I think, but... I think of all the trips to Australia we've done that was my hardest one. It was also my first. I *thought* it made sense to break it up into smaller segments. But, honestly, that 4 hour bit from Auckland to Melbourne was one of the hardest flights I've ever had. Not because of the airline or even the plane (although it was smaller than the long haul and had fewer amenities to distract). I think it was just that after the 12 hours or so it took to get from LA to Auckland, my body was really sort and resistant after an hour plus a bit, to being put back into a seat. Mind you, I'm not claustophobic or afraid of flying, but I do get disproportionately antsy sitting around too long.

Summary version: regardless of the long haul aircraft, I've found it highly preferable to just get it over with in one shot for the trans-pacific part. It's a couple more hours at one time, but less overall, and the big planes really are a lot better equipped for comfort. And going back in for more abuse is way worse than riding it out the once. Just my take on it.

I just completed a 3 week business trip to China, Malaysia, Singapore and Australia. Asia was never really on my list and I've been to Europe many times. I am so glad to have had this trip. It changed me in ways Europe never did.

Clifton, I completely agree. 14 hours from AU to SFO was hard but better than stopping (although there's nowhere really to stop!) I would rather fly 11 hours to Paris or 12 to Italy than break it up with a stop on the East Coast.

And on something different...

I find the conversation about the hyphenated Americans (again!) funny, but interesting. Got me thinking (again!).

Now, I don't hypenate, I think of my nationality as American, of course. On the other hand, every single ancestor I have on all four branches of my family originated in Germany. And since those family members ended up in a rather isolated part of the US, there was never anyone that married anyone else who had something than German lineage.

Nationality wise, we're not German. But "ethnically", DNA stuff wise, we're just as German as anyone in Germany. Kind of weird to think about, given the historical context of talking about race and Germany in the same sentence, but that's not really what I am getting at.

Leaving the US out of it for a minute... to use an example... there are Russian citizens, for instance, but then there are *Russians*, as in the ethnicity of being Russian. My daughter was born in Russia and is an Russian citizen. But ask anyone there... she's Kyrgyz, not Russian Russian. Russian can mean where you're a citizen, but it also refers to a ancient tribe of peoples with specific characteristics and it's not un-PC to know that that's always been the case. Note that Russians that ended up in Georgia (or Ukraine, Latvia, etc) were and are still Russian, and both host and originating countries agree on that point.

In Kyrgyzstan, Romania, even Paraguay, there are populations still referred to as German. Because ethnically, that's what they are. (although in Romania, they're often called 'Saxon', what few of them that are left do speak German after all these generations. Nice people, interesting stories)

Even in conversations here, British is British true. But at the same time, citizens of the UK have also been referred to as Bengali. There is nationality, and there is ethnicity and even people are are convinced that these things are archaic will *still* use the distinctions to explain who they mean, when the need arises. One could as easily replaced British and Bengali with German and Turk.

Anyway, my point being that if this is a case that is recognized the world over, that there is nationality and there is ethnicity... why do so many Europeans wig out if an American uses a hyphen to explain these two parts of their identity and past?

Grassshopper. Kind of like the dentist. One more hour of drilling, or shall we start in again this afternoon and numb you up all over again? Nooo contest!

I hope you post your impressions of your Asia trip. Your line about changing you in a way Europe never did really struck a chord with me. Europe to me is like seeing a play. Asia is kind of like being in one.

"Steelersfan on Nov 6, 09 at 8:29am
Did anyone else notice this?
OK, maybe I have a sick sense of humor, but I loved the irony in seeing that germanblonde started another topic yesterday, but in the Europe forum:

Posted by: germanblonde on Nov 4, 09 at 2:55pm
Posted in: Europe
I am thinking of visiting Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary an neighbouring countries when I visit Europe next year".

Huh, what happened to Nov 5? Who didn't read things correctly?

Steelersfan you write:-
"When I traveled in Europe (which was after I'd traveled in Asia, South America, and Africa...) I met many nice people with whom I found much in common.
Of course I found much in common with the nice people I met in Asia, South America, and Africa."

Somethings are universal, those who have travelled will no doubt be aware of this. You make no mention of having anything more in common with Europeans than other people you have encountered when travelling.

Many people who reside in the new world whose families left Europe several generations do not have the same type of lifestyle as the Europeans who live in. Do people whose grandparents came from England have four meals a day, including high tea?

Bangers and mash or hot dogs and fries?
Football (soccer) or baseball?

Culturally the new world and old world is different. It would be impossible for someone who has travelled not to know this.

Madison, you seam to have trouble reading what has been written.

I don't "seem" to have any trouble reading what has been written.

I just found out Germanblonde is really Rick Steves.

Good of you to post again Clifton. Yes that was the scenario we were thinking of. Everyone else here agrees with you. Time for a rethink. Thanks again.

Did you know that McDonald's are closing all their restaurants in Iceland?

Steelersfan you write:-
"When I traveled in Europe (which was after I'd traveled in Asia, South America, and Africa...) I met many nice people with whom I found much in common.
Of course I found much in common with the nice people I met in Asia, South America, and Africa."

germanblonde, digging self deeper wroteomethings are universal, those who have travelled will no doubt be aware of this. You make no mention of having anything more in common with Europeans than other people you have encountered when travelling.


And you assume that my heritage is purely European, eh? LOL!

Steelersfan, that comment wasn't meant for you (only the one about hair color was, )

I am not even going to bother to respond to the last lesson in culture, lol.

<<"Many people who reside in the new world whose families left Europe several generations do not have the same type of lifestyle as the Europeans who live in. Do people whose grandparents came from England have four meals a day, including high tea?">>

That could also be said for many of us in the US. Many have run with the times and many wouldn't hit a keyboard if you paid them. Please explain the relevance of this comment.


<<"Culturally the new world and old world is different. It would be impossible for someone who has travelled not to know this.">>

Again, I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say here. Funny thing is, many of the Europeans I know make me look like I'm standing still. I've been in the middle of the Pacific and Indian Oceans with some of these people and they have every piece of electronic equipment that's ever been invented.

Imagine being so connected that you only put your I-Phone (or whatever the thing is) down when they finally put their dive mask on 30 seconds before jumping in.
Many of these same people put me to shame when it comes to partying, traveling and getting around. My point, the notion that all Europeans are old world is somewhat disproportionate.

As I said earlier and regardless of old world versus new world, certain things like food, wine, love of family, pride of lineage never change.
On another note our now young people will eventually be considered old world. These same old world people will hold court and explain archaic things like laptops the size of a place mat.

Let me also add to the staying connected part.
Regardless of how modern many Europeans are they still have this thing about staying connected to family and friends. This never changes. They come in hordes, LOL

Can't speak for anyone else but it does always remind me that I take my close people for granted. Being around Europeans and some other cultures refreshes my memory and reminds me that I should make more of an effort to be more forthcoming with my family/friends. I love the idea of open doors where everyone is invited.

These cultures also, btw, take very good care of and cherish their elderly. Perhaps we like being around Europeans for these reasons.

<<Speaking only for our little family, I don't get the "Asia is too far for two weeks" argument. It took us 15 hours to get to Tokyo from mid-eastern Canada>>

Glad it worked out for you, but it depends upon where you fly from.

From Florida to Tokyo I would have a choice of 18.5 hours and two flights from my regional airport or 17.5 hours, two flights and a 2.5 hour drive to Tampa or Orlando. No way I would do that while I was working. Paris was 9.5 hours away, about half the time to get to Tokyo, so that's where I went when my vacation time was limited. Now I can go wherever I want. I already flew to Australia and Asia is next.

<<"Culturally the new world and old world is different. It would be impossible for someone who has travelled not to know this.">>


The poster has an astonishing grasp of the obvious!

Adu might be right ; I did see Rick Steves in Berlin this summer - he IS blondish.

nancicita

Excellent post!

SV

I have lived in Taipei for few years..I loved to live there, it was ones of our best assignment,..

When I was a child I always dreamed to visit the Mysterious Orient and was so thankful that I were able to fulfill at least for few years, my childhood dreams.

agree with spassvogel: excellent post, nancicita!

How do you tell a European from an American whose ancestors came from Europe? They "all look the same to me"

Just a simple question but how many Americans travel to Australia? In the UK half the country seems to have an holy grail of going - mainly due to our cultural links - how is Oz viewed on the US?

Someone will post after they google "Oz".

>>>>>
Oh, I forgot, I have a house there. That's why I go there a lot. Kinda makes sense, no?
>>>>>

yeah...yeah...blah...blah...blah. we all have houses in europe. big deal. tired of hearing about it.

"Steelersfan on Nov 7, 09 at 7:33am
Steelersfan you write:-
"When I traveled in Europe (which was after I'd traveled in Asia, South America, and Africa...) I met many nice people with whom I found much in common.
Of course I found much in common with the nice people I met in Asia, South America, and Africa."

germanblonde, digging self deeper wroteomethings are universal, those who have travelled will no doubt be aware of this. You make no mention of having anything more in common with Europeans than other people you have encountered when travelling.


And you assume that my heritage is purely European, eh? LOL!"


I have had similar experiences in all the countries I have travelled to. I am European, all travellers I know have had same/similar experiences regardless of their ethnic origin/heritage. Your arguement is getting weaker and weaker!

Oh, could I be Rick Steves? European travel is RS's business, check his website/guides. Think about it, wouldn't RS be posting that travellers should only visit Europe? Duh!

colduphere, Oz = Australia.

Thanks Germanblonde - that answers that. I have been looking at ways to get to Australia comfortably in economy class. Los Angeles to Brisbane is under 14 hours. I wonder if the continents are moving closer together. If so we might wait until it is under 13 hours.

colduphere, not sure if you plan on visiting Australia only or other countries on the same trip. Clifton has already advised you of Air Zealand, I've flown them transpacific with a stop over in NZ and a stop over in Fiji when flying to Australia. Hawaii is another place where you can stop enroute. I know that a Tahiti stopover is (or was) possible too on somedays of the week.

Obviously, stopovers will affect the price of the ticket.

I've found that prices for tickets to Sydney are usually less than other Australain cities, but much of this will depend on where you are travelling from.

Once in Australia, there are a two budget airlines for domestic flights (Jetstar, which is owned by Qantas and Virgin Blue) and Qantas.

Another thing to consider, depending on how long the trip is and how many places you'd like to visit is a Circle Pacific Ticket. This will give you the chance of flying to/from North America via the South Pacific and returning via Asia, or vv. The Circle Pacific ticket can be a good value if you'd like to combine Asia and the South Pacific on a long holiday. You can arrange your flights to avoid a long ~ 14 hour flight with a Circle Pacific ticket.

One World sells a Circle Pacific ticket, since Qantas is a One World airline, this will give you more options within Australia. (For the transpacific sector, you can fly CX, JL and AA too on a OW Circle Pacific ticket.) However when I looked at various possibilities, I found Star Alliance's Circle Pacific ticket to be more flexible when it came to stopover restrictions on the long transpacific flight.

If you plan on making stops and and avoiding long flights as much as possible, the Circle Pacific ticket may suit your needs.

Hope this helps.

"Oh, could I be Rick Steves? European travel is RS's business, check his website/guides. Think about it, wouldn't RS be posting that travellers should only visit Europe? Duh!"

It was a joke, it was a joke, it was a joke.....

Thank again germanblonde - I have looked at the Star Alliance RTW fare. Ottawa-Istanbul-Cairo-Bangkok-Sydney-Auckland-Ottawa all for a measely $3500 Canadian. Too bad there are five of us. I have looked at the circle pacific fare but not closely enough. Will do so now.

I just tried the family on a simple whitewater rafting trip in Turkey. Three young, looking for adventure and one big, somewhat older and more important .

Oh well.

I really wish this thread would end. It has run its course.

markrosy on Nov 7, 09 at 3:55pm
Just a simple question but how many Americans travel to Australia? In the UK half the country seems to have an holy grail of going - mainly due to our cultural links - how is Oz viewed on the US?


VERY expensive trip compared to other possibilities. But Aus/NewZealand trip is the dream of many who have not yet been. We get a fair share of ads enticing folks to come there.

Ask a travel agent for information about these places (outside Europe) and it's oh, you want ot go there, said as if they are puzzled.........


Sounds like you just need a better travel agent.

Thank you Damon.

This thread has is beyond bizarre.

germanblonde had some good advice cold. If I could add a little bit of stuff I've come across:

Tiger Airways is another budget airline in Oz (named as such for how Aussies say they name of their country.. Ozzztralia). Anyway, from what I've seen, avoid Tigers. Most recently, they left a bunch of people stranded in Hobart for *days* for lack of one flight attendant to complete a crew to fly them an hour to Melbourne. Not good

Another possibility: if you fly Qantas on the trans-pacific, there's a domestic airpass where you can package domestic legs you might want to make for a total reduction.

http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/visit-australia-airpass/us/en

Hope we get you there! (guess I'll be saying "get you here" if we're still discussing this next month)

Why expensive 14 hour flight from the UK can still bedone for £400 (depending on the destination) - Vancouver I seem to remember was 13 and cost £400 inc tax.

Back to the European OP - it is always interesting how on each side of the Atlantic we gush about each others back yard. The raving about Italy from yanks always puzzles me - it's a two hour skip for us clearly not for a native from California. To me Italy is just well a sunny York.

In reverse we count down the days to our trips to The Bahamas (dream trips) - once there South Floridans just shrug their shoulders with a day trip mentality.

I'm sure the short flights between the east coast and Europe have something to do with this, as well as the "comfort zone" that older Americans find in Europe.

I have noticed that my aquaintances here in LA are more willing to travel to Asia, South/Central America and the Pacific. Part of it is that the flight times are not any worse than going to Europe, and part of it is following the pack when they hear that others have been to China, Peru,
Thailand, Costa Rica, Tahiti, Oz/NZ etc. Although I always chuckle when the S.American travelers head to Buenos Aires because "it is supposed to be more European".

as posted by suze,

So it's not like there's some stampede to Europe. The premise of this entire question is simply incorrect.

Your premise is incorrect. At this point about 30% of Americans own passports. That accounts for ~90M Americans. I don't know where you are from but I have a feeling that more Americans own passports then your own country citizens combined.

Percentage wise - you may win. Number wise - I believe you would lose.