Zurich-Venice Train
Aug 28th, 2006, 06:53 AM
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Zurich-Venice Train
Okay.. now I need some guidance... planning on taking the train from Zurich to Venice on Oct 1st. There are four of us traveling and we want to go 1st class since 8 hrs is a bit long. I have priced tickets through Rail Europe and have found prices higher than other sites... www.cisalpino.com, www.sbb.ch, etc. My question is this, since there are four of us traveling, will we run into problems with securing seats together if we wait until arriving in Zurich to purchase tickets or should I get them ahead of time, and if so, through what company?
Thanks
Thanks
Aug 28th, 2006, 07:03 AM
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How far in advance will you be in Zurich?
is the trip during the week or on a weekend? over a holiday?
RailEurope is probably adding oin a mark-up not to mention their S+H charge...BTW how much MORE was the RE price?
I would wait until I got to Switzerland unless there is some compelling reason not to, especially since there are a couple of trips a day.
is the trip during the week or on a weekend? over a holiday?
RailEurope is probably adding oin a mark-up not to mention their S+H charge...BTW how much MORE was the RE price?
I would wait until I got to Switzerland unless there is some compelling reason not to, especially since there are a couple of trips a day.
Aug 28th, 2006, 07:16 AM
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Although the 1st class seems to me like wasted money, it has one advantage: there will be hardly anybody there. I do not think you will have any problems getting 4 reserved seats near each other in the 1st class, even if you reserve seats just a few days in advance. You will have enough free seats even if you just walk up, but an empty 4-seat group might be hard to find.
As to RailEurope prices, it is common knowledge that they mark the prices up, sometimes as much as 50% - they buy tickets from the rail organisations (where, contrary to airlines, the prices are mostly fixed within a few cathegories) and when they resell them they have to make a profit. Why people still buy the tickets from them - no idea.
As to RailEurope prices, it is common knowledge that they mark the prices up, sometimes as much as 50% - they buy tickets from the rail organisations (where, contrary to airlines, the prices are mostly fixed within a few cathegories) and when they resell them they have to make a profit. Why people still buy the tickets from them - no idea.
Aug 28th, 2006, 07:44 AM
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RailEurope's price for 4 passengers is $470 or about, with the $15 fee $485 or about $121 per person.
www.cisalpino has 67 euros a person or about $87 - $34 cheaper per person x 4 = $136 - no brainer to me, buy either via www.cisalpino.com or in Zurich - seems like you could go first class there for the price RailEurope would have you pay for 2nd class.
RailEurope, to naive observors, understandably may autmoatically be the bad character in marking up fares up to oft significant levels about those at stations and online in Europe - but my sources say that the European railways are in part responsible for the 50% mark up as, such as the case of Trenitalia, where ordinary train fares in Italy are subsidized 50% by the government - and when fares were attempted to be raised a few years ago a political backlash ensued. But Trenitalia itself I believe does not provide tickets to RailEurope or Wandrian Rail for the same price you'd buy them in Italy as they feel, perhaps correctly, that they should not subsidize tourists the same 50% they do tickets sold in Italy. Wandrian Rail is in fact the official U.S. arm of Trenitalia itself and it seems to set the prices in the U.S. When Italian fares were recently jacked up significantly in the U.S. it was Wandrian Rail that did so first, RailEurope followed. Therefore IMO Trenitalia or Wandrian Rail, their U.S. outlet, should bear more the brunt of ire than RailEurope. (The President of Wandrian Rail, Bernard Frelat (sp?) ironically used to be the CEO of RailEurope and previously, like all RailEurope presidents, came from the SNCF so it may or may not be a very cozy cartel.)
www.cisalpino has 67 euros a person or about $87 - $34 cheaper per person x 4 = $136 - no brainer to me, buy either via www.cisalpino.com or in Zurich - seems like you could go first class there for the price RailEurope would have you pay for 2nd class.
RailEurope, to naive observors, understandably may autmoatically be the bad character in marking up fares up to oft significant levels about those at stations and online in Europe - but my sources say that the European railways are in part responsible for the 50% mark up as, such as the case of Trenitalia, where ordinary train fares in Italy are subsidized 50% by the government - and when fares were attempted to be raised a few years ago a political backlash ensued. But Trenitalia itself I believe does not provide tickets to RailEurope or Wandrian Rail for the same price you'd buy them in Italy as they feel, perhaps correctly, that they should not subsidize tourists the same 50% they do tickets sold in Italy. Wandrian Rail is in fact the official U.S. arm of Trenitalia itself and it seems to set the prices in the U.S. When Italian fares were recently jacked up significantly in the U.S. it was Wandrian Rail that did so first, RailEurope followed. Therefore IMO Trenitalia or Wandrian Rail, their U.S. outlet, should bear more the brunt of ire than RailEurope. (The President of Wandrian Rail, Bernard Frelat (sp?) ironically used to be the CEO of RailEurope and previously, like all RailEurope presidents, came from the SNCF so it may or may not be a very cozy cartel.)
Aug 28th, 2006, 08:01 AM
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Thanks for the prompt responses... We will be flying into Zurich either one or two days prior to taking the train to Venice which will be on a Sunday. I've only bought train tickets once before (Milan-Zurich) and that was the day of travel and I wasn't sure if I lucked out with a 1st Class compartment for 6 that was only occupied my myself and traveling companion. Would like the same accomodations for Zurich to Venice for the four of us, so I wasn't sure if I should get them in advance. I think I will wait until arriving in Zurich to purchase them. At least it will be the day before travel to Venice
Aug 28th, 2006, 08:07 AM
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I agree with your plan.
The reason i asked about RE's prices is because (as PalQ knows) sometimes they can actually be as cheap if not cheaper than buying in Europe.
However, Altamiro is incorrect..RE does not "buy" tickets from anyone since it is wholly owned by a combination of SNCF and SBB and serves as their marketing arm in North America.
The reason i asked about RE's prices is because (as PalQ knows) sometimes they can actually be as cheap if not cheaper than buying in Europe.
However, Altamiro is incorrect..RE does not "buy" tickets from anyone since it is wholly owned by a combination of SNCF and SBB and serves as their marketing arm in North America.
Aug 28th, 2006, 08:29 AM
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I'm not sure about RE not buying tickets from anyone - i believe that Trenitalia's U.S. arm, Wandrian Rail may well sell tickets to RE but not sure and you could be right - it's rather murkey. Even though owned by SNCF (70%) and SBB (30%) i think RE acts as an independent corporation in the U.S. - they at one time were outright owned by SNCF and SBB but for several years now an independent co with those two as the stake holders. Thus RailEurope has to turn a profit, unlike SNCF in France which is notorious for rarely having to turn a profit and thus cannot afford to sell tickets at same price as SNCF does in Europe - especially their PREM fares.
Yet i agree with Dukey that at times RE tickets can even be cheaper than in Europe - last two years was the case in many countries but after RE jacked up prices (or prices were jacked up by someone) they are often now significantly higher. But still i've seen things like $29 fares from Munich to Rome on their site occasionally - whether they are bookable or not i don't know, or their current $16 Amsterdam-Paris Thalys special - again probably the few tickets available at this price sold out weeks ago. But always compare prices - there are surprises - such as Swiss Passes, being currently cheaper thru RE than at the station in Suisse.
The whole marketing thing is fascinating to me and i don't claim to fully understand the intricacies of who decides to sell what at what price!
Yet i agree with Dukey that at times RE tickets can even be cheaper than in Europe - last two years was the case in many countries but after RE jacked up prices (or prices were jacked up by someone) they are often now significantly higher. But still i've seen things like $29 fares from Munich to Rome on their site occasionally - whether they are bookable or not i don't know, or their current $16 Amsterdam-Paris Thalys special - again probably the few tickets available at this price sold out weeks ago. But always compare prices - there are surprises - such as Swiss Passes, being currently cheaper thru RE than at the station in Suisse.
The whole marketing thing is fascinating to me and i don't claim to fully understand the intricacies of who decides to sell what at what price!
Aug 28th, 2006, 09:25 AM
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Especially since SPAR-type discounted tickets can be as low as 29 euros including couchette i think. Huge savings considering no hotel. Perhaps however the SPAR fares are only for trains originating in Germany and not Suisse??
Aug 29th, 2006, 10:24 PM
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You could also buy them in advance over the phone from Swiss Rail using a credit card, but I generally agree that with first class you should not have a problem. (Not sure you can buy them on the Swissrail website for an intra-Europe trip, but worth checking.) I think you can buy them from the Cisalpino site as well and have them mailed to you.
October 1 is a Sunday and is also Labour Day in much of Europe, so trains may be a little more crowded for one or both reasons; however first class is generally not as crowded. You might want to make reservations in the dining car when you buy the tickets, as that may fill up quickly. IMO the only reason you might want to book ahead of time is to book into the dining car....
With Labour Day, you may also run into demonstrations, esp in Italy, and I hate to say it, but sometimes strikes. Just keep an eye on this.
When you land in Zurich, if you are taking the train into town, then you cuold also easily buy your Zurich-Venice tickets at the airport train station as well, thereby buying even one day earlier and saving yourself a trip to teh train staton in Zurich.
October 1 is a Sunday and is also Labour Day in much of Europe, so trains may be a little more crowded for one or both reasons; however first class is generally not as crowded. You might want to make reservations in the dining car when you buy the tickets, as that may fill up quickly. IMO the only reason you might want to book ahead of time is to book into the dining car....
With Labour Day, you may also run into demonstrations, esp in Italy, and I hate to say it, but sometimes strikes. Just keep an eye on this.
When you land in Zurich, if you are taking the train into town, then you cuold also easily buy your Zurich-Venice tickets at the airport train station as well, thereby buying even one day earlier and saving yourself a trip to teh train staton in Zurich.
Aug 29th, 2006, 11:13 PM
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SBB will not give pricings for international trips on the website. I enquired by email and received a full quote followed by the following caveat.
Placing an order:
""""""""&q uot;"""""""&quo t;
According to the General Conditions of Business, only residents of Switzerland and the countries of the European Union may effect purchases using the rail.ch-Ticket Shop facility.
You may submit your order to a travel agency accredited for the sale of public transport tickets in Switzerland. Please find a list of outlets under the following link:
www.sbb.ch/en/stssales
You can also purchase your tickets at a train station on arrival in Switzerland.
The outlets are all part of the Rail Europe family and their prices were much higher than the SBB quote. Thanks to advice I received here I am waiting until I get to Zurich to buy my tickets unless I can buy the Click and Save tickets (internet only) the week before. They are CHF 70 Zurich - Florence versus the CHF 140 quoted.
Placing an order:
""""""""&q uot;"""""""&quo t;
According to the General Conditions of Business, only residents of Switzerland and the countries of the European Union may effect purchases using the rail.ch-Ticket Shop facility.
You may submit your order to a travel agency accredited for the sale of public transport tickets in Switzerland. Please find a list of outlets under the following link:
www.sbb.ch/en/stssales
You can also purchase your tickets at a train station on arrival in Switzerland.
The outlets are all part of the Rail Europe family and their prices were much higher than the SBB quote. Thanks to advice I received here I am waiting until I get to Zurich to buy my tickets unless I can buy the Click and Save tickets (internet only) the week before. They are CHF 70 Zurich - Florence versus the CHF 140 quoted.
Aug 30th, 2006, 12:24 AM
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Hi rkahn001,
Everyone has given you incredible advice. I've been researching this route thoroughly, as I'll be taking it in 2 weeks. You can price the trip on trenitalia.it (there's an english option at the top of the page).
*By all means, do NOT purchase it from this site. It requires you pick up the ticket at an Italian train station. This is only for figuring out how much your tickets will cost zurich-venice.
For the special promotional prices PalQ mentioned:
The day train requires(i think) only 1 day advance purchase. The night train requires 7 days, which wouldn't work for you. Also, on SBB there's a section called "click & rail." It offers that route (day train)for as low as 45CHF, usually 70CHF; available only online, usually 1 week before. Can print tickets.
Enjoy your trip.
Everyone has given you incredible advice. I've been researching this route thoroughly, as I'll be taking it in 2 weeks. You can price the trip on trenitalia.it (there's an english option at the top of the page).
*By all means, do NOT purchase it from this site. It requires you pick up the ticket at an Italian train station. This is only for figuring out how much your tickets will cost zurich-venice.
For the special promotional prices PalQ mentioned:
The day train requires(i think) only 1 day advance purchase. The night train requires 7 days, which wouldn't work for you. Also, on SBB there's a section called "click & rail." It offers that route (day train)for as low as 45CHF, usually 70CHF; available only online, usually 1 week before. Can print tickets.
Enjoy your trip.
Aug 30th, 2006, 12:34 AM
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On another post it seems my earlier post on this thread was confusing Hopefully this will clear it up.
SBB does not provide prices on their website except for Click&Rail EUROPE http://tinyurl.com/ro9ql
which can only be bought a week in advance.
You have to register with the site and go through the booking process to get the price. I made a phoney booking for next Friday and the price was CHF 70 for Zurich-Florence. Hopefully it will be available for Sept 29.
Earlier when I started making enquiries I emailed Swiss for a price Zurich - Lucca and the quote was:
Tickets: (one way, 2nd class)
"""""""" ;
2 persons:
CHF 170.00 / Zurich - Milan, CIS*
CHF 44.00 / Milan - Genova, EC
CHF 40.00 / Genova - Viaregio, ZUG*
CHF x.xx / Viareggio - Lucca** (no quote as it is a local train)
Since then I discovered that the 7.42 am train goes directly to Florence and have decided to take that train. I didn't bother asking SBB for another quote as I know they won't sell it to me until I arrive in Zurich.
Hope this makes sense.
Cali123 is right about the Trenitalia site. I actually bought a fantastically cheap ticket (57 euro)for the three of us from Trenitalia for Zurich-Florence and arranged for our villa landlord to post it to me. Unfortunately I did this all very late at night and realised two days later that I had booked it for the day earlier.
These tickets are non refundable and the date can't bechanged but do not have names on them so if anyone wants 3 ticket - - Florence on the September 28th they are welcome to them.
The only consolation is that I'm only out about 60 euro.
SBB does not provide prices on their website except for Click&Rail EUROPE http://tinyurl.com/ro9ql
which can only be bought a week in advance.
You have to register with the site and go through the booking process to get the price. I made a phoney booking for next Friday and the price was CHF 70 for Zurich-Florence. Hopefully it will be available for Sept 29.
Earlier when I started making enquiries I emailed Swiss for a price Zurich - Lucca and the quote was:
Tickets: (one way, 2nd class)
"""""""" ;
2 persons:
CHF 170.00 / Zurich - Milan, CIS*
CHF 44.00 / Milan - Genova, EC
CHF 40.00 / Genova - Viaregio, ZUG*
CHF x.xx / Viareggio - Lucca** (no quote as it is a local train)
Since then I discovered that the 7.42 am train goes directly to Florence and have decided to take that train. I didn't bother asking SBB for another quote as I know they won't sell it to me until I arrive in Zurich.
Hope this makes sense.
Cali123 is right about the Trenitalia site. I actually bought a fantastically cheap ticket (57 euro)for the three of us from Trenitalia for Zurich-Florence and arranged for our villa landlord to post it to me. Unfortunately I did this all very late at night and realised two days later that I had booked it for the day earlier.
These tickets are non refundable and the date can't bechanged but do not have names on them so if anyone wants 3 ticket - - Florence on the September 28th they are welcome to them.
The only consolation is that I'm only out about 60 euro.
Aug 30th, 2006, 02:50 AM
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Just to add to the consfusion: May 1st is only Labour day in Zürich and Geneva but not in any other Kanton...
("von Kanton zu Kanton verschieden" - differs from kanton to kanton - is probably the most accurate description of Switzerland)
("von Kanton zu Kanton verschieden" - differs from kanton to kanton - is probably the most accurate description of Switzerland)
Aug 30th, 2006, 07:46 PM
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You might call Budget Europe Travel Service (BETS) at 1 800 441 9413 or 2387. Bob & Byron were very helpful with my request going from Switzerland to Italy. I'll be able to use my Swiss pass until I get into the 1st city/stop in Italy then purchase a ticket on the Cisalpino to my destination. They priced it several different ways to get the best deal.
