Your experience at St. Pancras station in London / on Eurostar?

DH has been on Eurostar from the new station about 15 times (last count). I've been on it about a dozen.

We are both underwhelmed. Waterloo was a lot more practical for several reasons, not the least of which was the dedicated escalators from the Tube to the Eurostar area.

At St. Pancras, the Business Class/Carte Blanche lounge still isn't finished. The champagne bar was vastly overhyped.

I'll post more details later and I also have some photos of people fighting through the commuter crowds at St. Pancras to get to the Eurostar area I can send you.

Note, most of our trips involving Eurostar were between London and Brussels, not Paris.

Hi again,
Thought I'd kick things off with a quick sketch of my experience at the station. I was there on St. Pancras's opening day and rode the Eurostar to Paris.

The renovated St. Pancras was truly spectacular. From a strictly utilitarian perspective, I found the transfer from the Tube to the station to be pretty easy while hauling a suitcase --- escalators at key points, clear signage, not terribly far to walk.

With so many Underground lines feeding into St. Pancras, most travelers coming from central London (all us tourists) don't have to make many, if any, transfers to reach the station.

I also liked the fact that most of the businesses on the concourse level were British companies, and the places to eat were not the usual fast-food joints. A good cup of tea or coffee and a snack---no problem.

On that opening day, there was plenty of excitement in the air... not to mention music, with live bands playing. My favorite moment may have been when a pair of bowler-hatted, silver-haired gents started talking about the old station, how moved they were by the reopening, and how much more comfortable they were traveling by train (vs. flying).

The security checks and boarding procedures were quite smooth and comfortable. (As opposed to Paris, where the queues of waiting and shivering passengers stretched on for ages, with somewhat unclear divisions in the lines.)

I recently saw this interesting breakdown of costs between a Eurostar ride and an Easyjet flight. A real eyeopener!
http://www.gadling.com/2008/02/26/cage-match-eurostar-versus-easyjet/

Thanks for your reply, BTilke! Very interesting to hear about the commuters vs. Eurostar passengers --- since I was there on Day 1, that wasn't an issue but I was wondering what the day-to-day has been like since then.
Do you think it's an issue that more or different signage will help? Or is it a question of the volume of traffic / service-specific designations?

We've been through St Pancras International and Domestic quite a few times since it opened in November and travelled on the Eurostar at Christmas.

We love the actual building itself, it's quite stunning. The only thing I don't like is it's so cold inside. Impossible to heat I imagine, it's such a vast area.

We've travelled on Eurostar a few times, mainly from Waterloo. The actual train journey from St Pancras seemed very similar to me, it's a bit shorter which is good. It was a good, quick service from Waterloo and still is from St Pancras. It's much easier than flying.

The area for travellers on the Eurostar at St Pancras is not that great, for a new part of the building I think they could have done better, there's not much there. The Champagne Bar looked cold and uninviting at Christmas, having a drink with my gloves on didn't appeal!

A tip for anyone else who loves the building, London Walks www.walks.com are having some guided walking tours at St Pancras in the coming months.

Kay

Good point about the temperature, Kay! Wonder what they'll be doing in summer to cool the area?

The chill didn't deter me from having a glass of bubbly --- but then again, I was benefitting from the heated seating! They reminded me of the "bun warmers" you find in some cars...

I took the Eurostar to London a few weeks ago and was very impressed by the renovation St Pancras station - i'd call it an architectural marvel in how they intertwined old Victorian brick train shed with modern client-friendly train terminal.

As for the new CTRL - high-speed completion of the Eurostar tracks into London though it cuts time off it's nearly all in tunnel for the last dozen miles or so so don't get the glimpse of London as you did when the Eurostars limped into Waterloo station.

I've had two experiences with St Pancras. The architecture itself is wonderful, very beautiful. However throughout Dec it was FREEZING!! Even waiting to get on the Eurostar!

Here are my 2 experiences:

1. They moved the first capital connect from Kings Cross to St Pancras Dec 7 I think. We came out of the tube and there were NO SIGNS to tell anyone where it was...so people were wandering around during rush hour trying to find it. Stupidist thing I have ever seen as its on the very far end of the new station...which leads to my next issue. To get to First Capital Connect you have to walk all along the hallway, which is fine, except that the arrivals for Eurostar dump into this area...so trying to get to work every morning is like trying to run get through a maze of people exiting Eurostar, waiting for people to exit, and random chaos. Not a good first impression.

2. Travelling on the Eurostar to Brussels Dec 26...the line up to get through security was RIDICULOUS. They kept moving us from one queue to another, then another, then another...took about 45 mins to get through. Its pretty bland inside too, not much to do. There was a sit down restaurant that didnt have half of the food listed on their menu. Not the stations fault, but still.

SO not overly thrilled with it..but I am sure it will improve over time.

jamikins

I had the same problem finding the First Capital Connect (formerly Thameslink) trains upon arrival at St Pancras

I floundered around up and down a few times looking for signage

finally i saw a crude hand-written sign taped to a wall that directed me back to just where i had come from

and then it was a long long way until i finally did see an official Capital One Connect signs

I too was appalled at the lack of signage for that train.

Yeah, I actually felt bad for the employees manning the info counter once I finally got to the FCC...there were about 3 people speaking VERY loudly complaining about the lack of direction. Not a good way to start the service at its new home.

Well it's only been since Dec 7 they've been having those complaints

probably why i saw the crudely scrawled handwritten sign way at the other end of the station - staff must have put it up

It is incredible that after a few months there is such little helpful signage for these very busy trains

That "eye opener" link comparing costs between Easy Jet and Eurostar is pretty bogus in my book. First of all, it would be more accurate if you were staying AT St. Pancras in London and AT Gare du Nord in Paris, but most of us don't stay AT those stations, so we still must add travel to our hotels. For me the only easy and logical way to travel from Gare du Nord to my apt. in the 5th is by taxi, which last time took between half an hour and 45 minutes -- not that much less time and infinitely more expensive than taking the RER for an hour from CDG to just outside my door. Similar story in London. When did EasyJet start charging for bag check? I've checked 50 pound bags several times on Easy Jet and they have yet to charge me for that (even though they claim that is overweight and there should be a charge). Is that new?

In any case, pretending that only the flight still has extra costs and extra time to be added to it are really quite bogus.

Nevertheless, I WOULD agree that overall taking the Eurostar from central London to central Paris is a much better idea than taking a plane. I just don't think much of the "sided" way they tried to make the comparisons.

I agree that the cost breakdown is inaccurate, and does not take into account the costs and time required to get to/from those train stations.

If you are keen to save money on transport to Luton, use the EasyBus service, which has tickets between central London and Luton Airport for as little as 2 pounds. It will take a while, but you get a good look at London and the outskirts on the way.

EasyJet does charge a minimal amount for a checked bag, and a bit more if you don't prepay for it.

I can understand why the Eurostar is popular, and would use it myself in the right instance, but really the flight is not that bad.

It was interesting to read about the security for Eurostar - it seems people should be advised to arrive well in advance of their departure time, which further reduces the alleged time savings of Eurostar.

These notes about the FCC signage are interesting reports --- thanks, jamikins and PalenQ. I'm curious to know whether more / better signage is in the works, so I've sent a query to the Eurostar team. I'll let you know of anything I hear back!

Ah yes. I see Easy Jet does now charge for any checked bags -- new since I've flown with them. But at 3.99 pounds (about $8) per checked bag I have to laugh at the $31.92 charge on that comparison chart. Someone's checking four bags for one passenger? (Or perhaps two bags without paying in advance?)

By the way, when I did a very careful comparison of Easy Jet vs. train between Nice and Paris, I came up with a definite advantage taking Easy Jet -- and that allowed all expenses door to door and time allowance door to door. Both time and money came out lower with Easy Jet than the train. Not so much between Paris and London.

You certainly don't need to pay £21 something to get to Luton airport. Easybus will taker you there from Victoria for about £5.

In case anyone is planning on connecting from Eurostar to FCC trains that go thru the center of London with a few stops that may be close to hotels

then the FCC station is at the far north end of the building - north i think but not sure of exact direction - but near the back of the station - from the Champagne bar if you sit facing the Eurostar trains on the other side of the plastic partition the FCC station would be to your left anyway


- you'll see the ticket window and barriers and then the station proper is down, way down via escalators or lifts in the ground

it's really not that far if you know how to go

If going to Kings Cross for trains north you go out of St Pancras on the side door and then cross a construction zone to the old Kings Cross station. Ultimately there will be a covered walkway for this trek but currentl exposed to dicey London elements

Finding the Tube at St Pancras seems easy and well marked - entrances near the front of the station if i remember correctly.

Great new station. Easy to navigate.

<<< 3.99 pounds (about $8) per checked bag I have to laugh at the $31.92 charge on that comparison chart. Someone's checking four bags for one passenger? (Or perhaps two bags without paying in advance?) >>>

The price is per flight - so if you are coming back it's £7.98 EVEN if you aren't returning with the bag, so they are quoting for one bag at the airport price

NeoPatrick, I'm just curious. If it's easy for you to take the RER from CDG to your door, why is a taxi the only easy and logical way to travel from the Gare du Nord? The RER that goes to CDG is the same that goes through the Gare du Nord, after all.

For me, the calculation is reversed. I have an easy bus ride to the Gare du Nord, but since I live near the periph on the north side it only takes 20-30 min by taxi to get to CDG instead of having to budget about 1.5 hours to do it by public transportation.

St Pancras is a medium-term project, not a one-off opening. Between now and 2012 there are a number of additions planned to come in different phases (adding high-speed commuter trains to Kent, adding new Tube access near the domestic high-speed platforms, the opening of the hotel and Javelin trains to the Olympics site). And the current phase isn't totally finished, since there are still shops and the like to fit out.

So many of the details (like PalQ's "appalling" signage) are likely to change, at least once a year

But other details are less likely to:
- Kings Cross/St Pancras is the best connected spot on the planet, with direct tube or train connections to three nearby airports which, between them, handle almost as many international passengers every day as the entire airport system of the United States. It has direct tube lines to more places in the world's greatest city than anywhere else, and together with the nearby Euston station has direct train lines to most of Britain.

- But many British love whingeing, and the insular suburbanites of SE England do it better than anyone else. So - because St Pancras is less convenient for a few suburbs in south London than Waterloo was - there's a huge mob of suburban whiners who believe the sky's fallen in. In fact, St Pancras isn't just handier for most Britons than Waterloo was: it's handier for most of central London as well. Waterloo's south of the bleedin' river, for crying out loud: how can it be handy for anyone unless they live in Wandsworth?

- However, the new station's far from perfect. Apart from the aesthetics, there's a real problem with getting onto the tube system for people arriving from the Continent not already armed with an Oystercard. The tube ticket offices opposite the Eurostar arrivals haven't got enough manned kiosks, and most passengers seem too computer illiterate (or just French) to be happy using the complicated ticket machines (and I'm not sure there are enough of them anyway). So there are long queues to get tube tickets, and I can't see where there's space to put more selling points. Actually, you can walk round the immense "landside" area of the tube station to find other ticket offices, but they're tricky to find, and there are steps which make them a pain with luggage. Every time I come through (a few times a week) the queue seems up to fifteen minutes.

- there's no all-escalator access between the Circle Line (which connects you to Paddington and therefore the Cotswolds, so is by definition the most important connection in the station) and Eurostar. Actually - unlike Waterloo - there IS a lift, but it really is very badly signed, and you actually have to get two separate lifts. It was working yesterday, but was out of action for most of the previous two weeks. Kings Cross/St Pancras tube station continues to have poor standards of accessibility for anyone who's not nimble or has cumbersome luggage. Not remotely as awful as the disgraceful standards of accessibilty New Yorkers tolerate on their subway. But not what you'd expect from the main tube station in a civilised city.

- the refurbished St Pancras station is still a local tourist attraction in its own right, and it was never built to handle serious volumes of passengers. So although it - ie the 19th century bit that Eurostar uses - has astonishingly few trains (rarely more than a couple of departures an hour) it always seems amazingly crowded. This might explain why it never seems possibe to get a seat in the world's biggest champagne bar

- Shamingly, unlike the Gare de Lyon or Grand Central, there isn't a decent restaurant in the station, and there are few nearby. In fact there are none within half a mile, unless you count Addis in Caledonian Rd, which serves decent Ethiopian food, though often with attitude. The Drummond St Indians are just too far away for a comfortable walk. Eat beforehand.

- BUT, the British Library gallery next door to St Pancras is by several million miles the finest museum next to a major railway station anywhere in the universe (and the Library's Prue Leith-run caffs are just as good as the overpriced places in the station). If you've got time to kill and the security queues don't look too long, kill it in the British Library. Or the new, nearby, Wellcome Collection.

The part of the station where folks getting off Eurostar and need directions to FCC trains appears fully finished and there is no excuse for a lack of adequate or any apparently signage pointing the way there

there is a plethora of signs for say Eurostar checked luggage that point you to the area FCC trains are in for example

FlUK neglects to tell you the elevators are miniscule and can handle at most a couple of people at a time and hope they aren't carrying much luggage.

On my most recent Eurostar trip involving St. Pancras, I ended up having to help several elderly travelers who were having difficulty with a) significant Tube delays on the lines directly serving St. Pancras/Kings Cross (meanwhile, the Bakerloo line to Waterloo was running fine) b) getting themselves and their luggage up three different sets of stairs c) fighting through the commuter hordes and d) finding their way to the Eurostar check-in area.

There were NO staff around who showed the slightest inclination of being willing or able to help these travelers who had started out being excited about their first Eurostar trip and who rapidly became stressed and anxious. One of the elevators was not working. The signage was appalling as noted above and there's NO excuse for that, how hard was it to make decent signs??!!!

St. Pancras just doesn't handle crowds that well and God help the people coming for the London Olympics if the same staff attitude I saw last month prevails.

Hi everyone!
A London & Continental Railways representative replied to the question of the signage for FCC in St. Pancras International, prompted by your comments here.
He notes that there will be more direction / guidance in the station. (Keep in mind, as other posters have mentioned here, that the station is not completely finished.)
One new aspect will be the addition of digital "Public Information Points" or PIPs. The rep said that some PIPs are up and running now and that more are being added. These interactive posts will help travelers find their way around the station and will also give other visitor info (station facilities, neighborhood info and so on).
So, let's see how these PIPs help!

This is a very interesting thread to me as we are arriving in London on December 23 and taking the train I hope to our hotel - and then taking the Eurostar to Brussels and then train to Brugges on the 24.

Not happy about hearing there is no heating - brrrrr...going to have to get some of those handwarmers!

i know my way but i see many travellers confused in trying to get from the tube to the eurostar. the signage IS very poor with no consistent eurostar logo'd signs. you would think they would over-sign it since it is new.

all the hype about the 'glamourous' champagne bar will undoubtly leave many shaking their heads. it's a small bar with a longish row of booths. hardly glamourous and very ordinary, and yes, cold. if you did not hear the hype, you would just walk by without even taking note of it. it's also in an awkward position/location and is somewhat isolated. so the sense of cold is not entirely just the temporature.

the passenger lounge is very poorly designed. the waterloo lounge was too small to handle passenger volumes and a bit worn. this new one already looks worn and provides no more seating. the decor is very ordinary...while not a showplace, the waterloo lounge felt more comfortable (lighting, seating, colours, etc). the cheesy, very long, snaking bench at the st pancras lounge impedes flow around the lounge...if you get caught on the wrong side of it, it is a long walk.

in my first visit, i commented many times how poor the design of the place it. just doesn't work well, imo. none of it.

jen...the station is far too busy for electronic PIPs to be of much use. for example, during many hours of the day, it's a battle to get between the tube and the eurostar. good, intuitive design, visual markers/signs, layout and flow is the only thing that can make it work. electronic kiosks will make no difference, IMO. let's get back to the basics and use some common sense.

Oh great - the place is poorly arranged, signed and crowded -- and their answer is PIPs??

I can see it now - the already congested areas will be even worse w/ folks trying to figure out how these "Public Information Points" work. If the SIGNS were adequate they wouldn't need bottleneck-causing PIPs . . . . .

I've done only 2 trips from St Panc (both to Paris). Three of my biggest gripes are: 1) business lounge not open (as of Jan), 2) no mobile coverage while the trains are travelling underground, 3) taxi out of St.Panc can get rerouted through big King's X projects north of the station, esp if you're heading N/NW.

Also perfectly agree with walkinarout re: departure lounges. I really wish they could have provided more seatings. On the other hand, I seemed to have better luck with getting a taxi--as opposed to frantic rush toward the taxi rank at Waterloo. I found signage as ok, though people who are not accustomed to commuter horde may be taken aback if connecting to tube during the rush hours.

''2) no mobile coverage while the trains are travelling underground''


Thank god for small mercies!

Luddite

Thanks for your notes, everyone. Has anyone actually used the PIPs yet? I'm curious to know where they're located and how well they work for travelers new to the station. (For instance, are they easily visible, yet placed in such a way that they won't impede the crowds at peak times? Do they have a clear station floorplan or map as a starting point?)

One of the knock ons from the opening of st pancras is that the Bedford/Brighton line now goes through St Pancras not Kings Cross (some sub name) the effect is that when trying to book trips on www.thetrainline.com you get different ticket timetables from Nationalexpress.co.uk

Building lovely

Re the Paris end of things, we just received a letter from Eurostar Carte Blanche services with the following advice:

The departure area at Gare du Nord is being remodeled to provide more space for check-in, passport control, and security. A fourth x-ray machine will be added. Most of the work will be completed by summer 2008 (they claim).

Although train schedules haven't changed, passengers are advised to check in 5 to 10 minutes earlier (note: that's the advice for Eurostar Carte Blanch cardholders, who have premium check-in services. Regular travelers should probably plan on checking in at least 15 minutes earlier than usual).

Having taken the Eurostar r/t from London to Paris recently, I thought the St. Pancras station was okay. The Eurostar itself is still tops though, so I'm happy to put up with the seedy Gare du Nord, and the space-challenged St-Pancras. Also, St-Pancras integrates poorly with the Underground -- you have to abandon your trolley cart a bit before "interfacing" with the Underground, as there's nowhere to return it.

The Underground itself is a mess, as far as accessibility is concerned. Few elevators. Lots of stairs. Leaving St. Pancras, there's an inevitable wave of wheelchairs, strollers and large suitcase-wielders, slowly, slowly struggling along, waiting for the same slow and small elevators, and so on. I'm hoping the Olympics prep will eventually deal with that. Not holding my breath.

I popped in for another look over the weekend, and I can't see what's wrong with the signage.

I haven't checked all available entrances, but from the main entrance from the tube station, the overhead signs are clearly labelled for Eurostar and for UK trains.

Thanks for the warnings re signage. We're travelling by Eurostar from London to Paris next month. Our teenage son and his friend will join us in Paris a few days later or at least we hope they will!
I might have to drag them to St. Pancras when we leave for Paris so they get the lie of the land. Although my son has taken the Eurostar before he's only familiar with Waterloo and I'd assumed we'd be tripping over signs at the new station!
I'll keep an eye out for PIPs!

Patrick - nevertheless i was befuddled a few weeks ago finding the FCC trains and i'm no novice traveler

perhaps the use of the term UK trains is amiguous to those not in the know - i took this as meaning mainline trains from St Pancras and not the FCC but i see your point

I think the problem for me (and I havent been there since Dec) was that there previously had been clear Thameslink signage...I dont think there is anything that specifies FCC now. And FCC is in a different place than the regular national rail services

Well i was there a few weeks ago and if IF i remember the UK Trains signs point to the north end of the station with the mainline trains from St Pancras itself leaving from a raised section on the left and if you keep walking you'll come to the FCC underground station - there was one FCC sign as you approached that station.

My problem was thinking the UK Trains sign was pointing only to the St Pancras mainline UK train services and did not realize that FCC was further up

The signage sucks no matter how you look at it - does not lead clueless folks to the train

bookmarking.

thanks.

If a sign says "UK trains this way", you want a UK train and you don't realise that sign applies to you, just how clueless are you?

No organisation should expect its customers to be less able to understand simple English than my dog. The one part of the complex where PalQ DOES have a point is in the Tube station, where there's nothing I've seen clearly spelling out that there's no Kings Cross Thameslink any more.

The UK signs lead you to the St Pancras mainline station up above - yeh you climb up there expecting the FCC trains too

at that point at least there should be a large sign pointing to the FCC trains as well as the clueless could assume all UK trains left from the same place.

I may be a dolt but signage is not for those who know where to go - it should be dumbed down for the clueless as this is what the signage is intended for.

i agree with pal...well designed signage schemes do not require people to think. therefore whether one is 'clueless' or not is irrelevent. what should the signs say to solve these problems? i don't know, others are trained and paid to design signage schemes...i'm not.

Topping to find out if there has been any changes to the signage. Need to get from tube to Eurostar and I'm not too smart.

been through a bit in the last few weeks and the confusion seems to have calmed right down, so guess people are sorting themselves out pretty well.

One point of note is that the street food in St Pancras is significantly better than that in Kings Cross next door and everything is cleaner etc. So if you need to chill out for a bit stay in St Pancras (though I guess you miss platform 11+3/4