You know those ads in The New Yorker...

Old Apr 21st, 2000, 06:41 AM
  #1  
George
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You know those ads in The New Yorker...

...the ones for walking and/or bicycle tours of Europe? Has anyone ever used one of those companies? Are they good? reasonable? terrible?
 
Old Apr 21st, 2000, 08:24 AM
  #2  
Mary
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Hi George--I have used Backroads (out of Berkeley CA) for two walking trips--one in Tuscany and one in Provence. They were wonderful. In Tuscany, we went to cooking school, had lunch with an ex-pat American at the castle in which he lives, watched olive oil being made, etc., etc. In Provence, the walking was more like hiking (but you don't have to do anything you don't want)but we did equally fine side trips--vineyard, ex-pat artists' house for tea, etc. Backroads is on the high end of the companies (the Cadillac of the companies is Butterfield and Robinson in Toronto--their catalogue is amazing) and there are now hundreds of smaller outfits. On Backroads you stay in mostly Relais et Chateaux properties, have wonderful meals, the guides--two per trip--are great and very knowledgeable about food, wine, the region. These trips are not cheap but when you figure out the amount of work the guides do, the moving of your luggage, the truly first-class accomodations, the special tours and local experts who come talk to you, it is worth it. I have friends who did a bike trip with Backroads and they loved it. We did a bike trip on Martha's Vineyard/Nantucket with a smaller company called Bike Riders--they are Backroads alumni--and it was equally great. Bike Riders is less expensive than Backroads and does some neat trips in Europe with chefs along to teach you classes and make your meals.

These trips are not for you if you don't enjoy group activities--but there is plenty of time to break away from the group and free time built in to shop, hang at the pool, etc. For us, they are the perfect blend of wonderful activity and great wine and food.

Hope this helps.

Mary
 
Old Apr 27th, 2000, 04:43 AM
  #3  
Topper
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Interesting question; I've often wondered myself. Any other contributions?
 
Old Apr 27th, 2000, 05:31 AM
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Patrick
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Haven't been a part of one of those groups myself but. . . several years ago we stayed in a Wilderness Lodge in New Zealand. Most of the lodge was taken over by a group from Backroads who were doing a major bicycle tour of the south island. They were staying there for two nights recovering from a huge ride they had done over the mountains to get there. We enjoyed the whole crowd so much, and went with them on one of the major hikes. We almost wanted to join them for the rest of the trip. The following year in Amboise at a lovely small hotel, another Backroads group practically took over that place --including one of the same people we had met in New Zealand. Again, they were so well organized, staying at great places, and everybody in the group was raving about the experience. I'm not enough of a bicyclist to join them, but it sure looks like a good group to me.
 
Old Apr 27th, 2000, 07:39 AM
  #5  
jo ann
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Rate me also as an enthusiast: A business contact of mine in nyc called me in 1988 and said he was forwarding a catalog to me that he thought I would enjoy. It was Butterfield & Robinson, one of the pioneers in this type of travel, and by the next summer I went on their first Normandy trip with a friend, then the next year to the Dordogne, and these are still among my favorite memories. At that time, they advertised as "cycling trips for the non-cyclist", and I took them up on it: altho quite active, hadn't been on a bike for 25 years, never used hand brakes, etc. Meant to try it before the trip, but was too busy. Difficult 1st day, but by the final day I did 53 miles, had big lunch w/wine, and toured the D-Day area, and felt great! (How else to spend 2 weeks in France, eating & enjoying whatever, and lose 4 pounds???)
The next year I married a widower w/ a small daughter, and gave these up since B&R at that time had no trips that included kids. I spent the next few years calling periodically suggesting that they add family trips, they have, and I am studying the brochure layouts now to pick a family trip for 2001 -- can't wait!!!
The real pluses in my opinion: incredible hotels, many of which they have used for over 20 yrs -- probably the same w/any quality organization, very warm reception when you arrive!
Terrific guides: one favorite memory of the Dordogne trip was being told that a.m. of a suggested lunch stop: "you'll know it when you get there -- have a hot dog!" Sure enough, traveling with my friend, about as we got hungry, coming into a small town -- saw the sign for "les hot dogs". Incredible french bread "rolls", a delightful "chef", and so french: each one came out with different toppings (some peppers on this one, lovely mild dijon on the next, a red sauce on the next: you got what you got!) A good many of our group ended up coming & going there at roughly the same time -- and we'd never have found it on our own. And certainly the terrific vineyard or goat cheese farm stops, the lovely Relais & Chateau hotels, etc, but also unique stops: on that first Normandy trip, we had lunch on the last day in a farmhouse near the cemeteries. The madame fixed us roast chicken better than I've ever had (and with the chickens walking around in the yard, you knew how fresh it was), other incredibly tasty and simple items, but a great part was the unexpected ambience of sitting in a farm "family room" having a meal on jury-rigged tables, checking out their video rentals, seeing a large poster on the wall that was satirically describing the attempt to build something called "le chunnel".
The size of the group: both tours were 18 plus the 2 guides, very diverse individuals, some couples, some solo travelers, etc. I love that dinner conversation just didn't get into the "what do you do for a living" stuff. I work in the investment field, and know how monopolistic or competitive that can become, and I want to get away! The groups were also international and very diverse by age (late teens to 60's/70's). Again, to me that added to the fun and sharing of different views. Too, one can cycle with other group members or totally on your own, and just get together to relive the day over lovely dinners.
Caveat: the trips are not cheap. When I was single, it was a splurge for sure, but doable to spend the bucks to get myself a spot. I will admit to the sticker shock of multiplying by 3 as I am now doing. Of course, knowing what I spent last summer on 4 of us (when I used several of B&R's hotels, actually)helps me know that some trips just do cost money. My recollection was that B&R locks in their prices & hedges the currency cost in the prior fall: I'm hoping for good things this October to help make it "affordable" for us.
Another caveat: on my first trip, one couple added about 50+ miles to the route each day, and altho it was their first trip to Normandy, said that they only found the need to slow down to enjoy the scenery perhaps 2x per day. I really couldn't figure out why they just didn't cycle somewhere less interesting and certainly cheaper.
As an above poster mentioned: I highly recommend their catalogs as adjuncts planners for any trip, beautiful photos and wonderful descriptions.

Oh, I just remembered the one negative I experienced: sometimes you just want a cold beer, and B&R is so good at finding the back roads that one day in particular, we went several hours without coming into a town, and my "beer low light" had been on the whole time. But it tasted so good when I eventually got there!
(Sorry this is so wordy!)
 
Old Apr 27th, 2000, 07:52 AM
  #6  
George
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These are great postings--thank you all! Anyone care to add more? (Now this is what Fodor's Forums is all about!!!)
 
Old Apr 27th, 2000, 08:00 AM
  #7  
Ed
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About how much does one of these trips cost (per person, say for a one week trip)? Just wondering . . .
 
Old Apr 27th, 2000, 08:06 AM
  #8  
Caitlin
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I haven't taken a Backroads trip to Europe, but on the basis of two weekend cycling trips in California, I'm willing to vouch fpr their very good organization, knowledge and skill of the guides, and quality of everything involved. The trips I took were camping trips, not inn trips (I think they just do inn trips in Europe), but let me tell you, it was like being in an outdoor hotel. We had to bring our own sleeping bags and pads and pitch our tent (supplied by them). They did everything else. The campsites were alwasy the best and most beautiful available. They cooked us three delicious and varied meals a day and did all the cleanup. They'll fix your bike if you have a problem. And all their tours are completely "supported," which means that they not only carry all your stuff (including any cases of wine you buy at the winerieis...), but if you can't or don't want to walk or cycle the whole way to the next destination, they just pick you up and give you a ride. If you're hesitent to drop a large chunk of change on a European trip without knowing how the company is, I'd suggest choosing one that also does short US trips and doing a "tryout" weekend trip with them for a few hundred dollars. You'll get a weekend away and a sense of what kind of product/service the country delivers. Every time I've looked at the catalogs, I've wanted to take every trip they offer!
 
Old Apr 27th, 2000, 08:16 AM
  #9  
Caitlin
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Ed, I think Backroads charges about $2500-3000 per person (w/o air) for its one-week Eorope Inn trips, which generally stay in top-notch places and include almost all meals (with dinners at really nice restaurants and incuding wine) plus the kinds of extra activiites noted above. So equivalent to a cruise, say. I believe there are other companies that do less luxury-minded trips that are priced accordingly. Backroads's camping trips are considerably less (but again, not in Europe), but as I said above, they really take care of you. Backroads has a wensite with trip descriptions and all of their rates and adtes.
 
Old Apr 27th, 2000, 08:51 AM
  #10  
Beth Anderson
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Hi,

I have to add this in, if you are interested, drop me a line!

I am shortly going on a biking tour to Ireland - just the west coast for this trip, and it's only 7 days (I'll have 2 more by myself in Dublin).

The cost, including bikes, support, B&Bs, breakfast (of course) and airfare, is 1330. dinners & lunches are not included but that is about it. they even provide rain gear if necessary.

I am going through Isle Inn Tours, in Alexandria VA - number 703.683.4800

I'll let you all know when I get back, what I thought of it!

Beth
 
Old Apr 27th, 2000, 09:52 AM
  #11  
Mary
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For their European trips, Backroads is about $3K/per person; Butterfield & Robinson is about $4K and up. As I said in my previous post, at first glance, it sounds expensive, but, these are not designed as budget trips; generally all meals are included--maybe one dinner is not included or a couple of lunches; all entrance fees, special guides are included; they haul your luggage from hotel to hotel; the guides are very well-informed, educated, and speak the local language fluently and you stay in wonderful hotels.

Check out their websites and get their catalogues--they are great resources.

Not only do these companies do the traditional Tuscany, Provence, Loire Valley, but also more exotic locations that may be a little more complicated to plan on your own--Vietnam, China, etc.

One last thing: they are all starting to do fun specialty trips too: Tuscany Cooking, Wine Tasting, Guest Chefs.

On our Tuscany walking trip on Backroads we went to cooking school one night and it ranks as the funnest, most memorable vacation activity we have had done. . .and I have a stuffed pepper recipe to die for. . .

Mary
 
Old Apr 27th, 2000, 02:23 PM
  #12  
Patrick
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Although I spoke highly of these trips in my post above, one reason I have never done one is the cost. We stay in the same hotels that they do in France for example, eat at many of the same restaurants, rent a car, buy gas, sometimes rent a bike locally, and do a lot of hiking. While we were doing the Dordogne and Loire Valley, we kept running into a couple of these groups. But while we budgeted $300 a day for everything, their trip was more than double that per day. I felt it was a lot for the convenience of having someone transport your luggage from point to point and make your arrangements, which, frankly I enjoy doing myself. It is great for some people, especially if you don't have the time or interest to do a lot of your own planning and are really seeking the companionship of a nice larger traveling group. But no one should do it because they think it is going to save them money over any other form of independent travel. You pay the company well for their services --which admittedly is a worthwhile expense if you can afford it.
 
Old Apr 28th, 2000, 06:52 AM
  #13  
anne
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A couple of questions for Patrick :
Any tips about how to transport your luggage from one place to another when walking/biking? Also, advice about getting back to your starting point after a long hike/ride - assuming you don't want to walk all the way back! We, too, like to take off on our own, but have been restricted in doing so due to the above restraints.
 
Old Apr 28th, 2000, 07:42 AM
  #14  
Mary
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I realized that I forgot the most important thing you are paying these companies for: the routes (and on biking trips, the (very) nice, well-maintained bikes.) The guides have had to carefully work out both walking and biking routes so that they are scenic, safe, have places to stop for lunch (or places where they will meet you for a picnic), rest stops, places where you can get water if the van can't access the site, safe places for the van to pick up you up if you are tired of walking/biking, if you on private property, getting permission; places to stop for tours, etc. etc. While many people like working these out for themselves, it is very time-consuming and, having done routes for walkathons and bikeathons for a major charity, at some point it is really helpful to walk or drive the route in person. The directions are incredibly detailed and having done it myself I know they represent hours and hours of work.

Again, these are not cheap trips, but if you have the means, they are great ways to combine wonderful exercise (in both Tuscany and Provence, the walks took all day with stops at vineyards, museums, for lunch, etc.) and have great meals before starting out again in the morning.

Anne--several of these companies will let you do your own walking (or some will give you their routes) and will transport your luggage from hotel to hotel (which is, I think, the biggest obstacle when you want to walk from point-to-point). Those fees are greatly reduced. Those programs are usually discussed at the backs of the catalogues or just check their websites. Try Country Walkers because they seem to do a lot of inn-to-inn.

Hope this helps.

Mary
 
Old Apr 28th, 2000, 08:04 AM
  #15  
Cynthia
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Back to the original question for a minute. We rented a house in Tuscany for a couple weeks 2 years ago from a firm that advertised in the New Yorker and it was wonderful. It was a company in San Francisco and the person who booked for us had visited all their properies and was very knowledgable. There were 3 couples and even though the house was very nice it was inexpensive split 3 ways.
We are leaving in a couple weeks to do a walking tour in Spain. The company that we are using is Alternative Travel Group in Oxford, England. They have excorted trips and also what they call footloose trips. We are doing a footloose trip--they make hotel arrangements, give us maps, and move our bags from place to place. Our food is up to us. The cost for 8 days is $1300 for two. Considerably less than escorted tours which would be around $2000 per person. We have never used them before but some friends have and really like them.
 
Old Apr 28th, 2000, 09:15 AM
  #16  
Patrick
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To Anne: yes, avoiding the walk back is sometimes a problem. We usually however, like staying in one village for several days rather than a different hotel each night, so it's a bit of a trade off. We research the area and the hikes and often take a train or bus to another point and walk back to our starting point. There are often two routes to other towns or attractions so that you can walk or bicycle one way and return the other. At Chenencouux (boy, I'm sure I messed that spelling up)for example, we drove from Chinon where we stayed for several days to a small town where we left our car and walked along the river to arrive at the castle the back way. We then took a train from there back to our car. It was a wonderful day. There are several hiking and cycling groups that do a similar route, but it was not worth $300 or $400 extra for the one day to us to have them transport our luggage to a new hotel. We prefered to return to our beloved one in Chinon anyway. I guess I really sound like I'm still being negative. I'm not, it's just that for me traveling as much as five months at a time in Europe, I can't justify the additional cost per day. If your trip is limited to a week or two and you can possibly afford it, I'd say go for the organized trip.
 
Old Aug 2nd, 2000, 08:41 AM
  #17  
Sheila
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topping
 
Old Aug 2nd, 2000, 01:08 PM
  #18  
Amy
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I took the Backroads hiking trip in the Pyrenees last summer and loved it. Yes, it was expensive, but the trip was probably better than if I had planned it myself. I really liked not having to plan the actual hiking routes every day and seeing parts of the area that I might have missed otherwise. The other travelers on the trip were very interesting, and we still keep in touch. I was traveling solo, so it was great to have a week in the Pyrenees with plenty of companionship and then a week in Paris on my own.
 
Old Aug 2nd, 2000, 07:34 PM
  #19  
Robin
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-
Beth:

How was your bike trip that you took in April thru Ireland?
 
Old Oct 25th, 2000, 08:57 PM
  #20  
trieditlikedit
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Dear George,
I've taken 4 walking tours with American companies, and I love them. They cover a limited area, but give me a chance to see the people and the land up close. With all the healthy exercise, there's good reason to eat well. The people who take these tours are more often than not friendly, bright and curious. The quality of the tours can vary quite a bit, EVEN WITHIN THE SAME COMPANY! But even at their very worst, they're still fun, and ideal for a solo traveler who does not really like to be alone.
I had an outstanding walking tour in Tuscany with Ciclismo Classico--excellent guides, itineraries, and overall planning--so I thought the company was great. But then I took an eastern Sicily walking tour with Ciclismo Classico that was miserably organized and barely planned at all! I had a walking tour in western Crete with Country Walkers that was fun but a VERY poor value. We stayed in very cheap (but sometimes enjoyable) places (limited hot water, couldn't flush paper down toilet, only one tiny towel per person)yet paid about the same as for the relatively luxurious Tuscany tour with C.C. But I've heard that some other C.W. tours are wonderful, so I wouldn't rule out traveling with them again. I took 2 walking tours in France with BCT Scenic Walking -- in Provence and in Dordogne, and both were excellent and easier than I expected. However, the office staff is not well informed. I've heard rave reviews (from an experienced traveler) of ATG-Oxford's "Journeys" walking tours, but I think they're very difficult. From fellow travelers on C.C. and B.C.T. tours I've heard some serious criticisms of Backroads tours that would discourage me from ever taking one. The companies I've traveled with charged a little over $2000 for a week, not including airfare. ATG-Oxford is cheaper, yet some say better, than the American companies. In general, I'd highly recommend walking tours for a reasonably robust (but not necessarily extremely athletic), curious, somewhat adventurous, sociable, and preferably not first-time foreign traveler. But don't assume that tour #4 will be excellent because you heard that someone else's tour #2 was so good; you may need to take a risk, and I'd suggest NOT taking a "new" tour that the company hasn't been running for several seasons.
 

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