nukesafe

Someone sent me this chart of wines categorized by flavor. I don't recall having seen such a presentation before, and thought it might be of interest to fellow Fodorite winos.

http://i.imgur.com/hqdK0WE.png

traveller1959

A really interesting approach and certainly useful as far as everyday wines are considered.

However, too simplistic when it comes to better wines. The grand wines have flavours which are way to complex to put them into such a chart.

Take champagne. Champagnes have both citrus flavours (at least when young) and leather/tobacco aromas. Cremants from Bourgogne have citrus and flintstone.

Take Bordeaux. A mature red Grand Cru Classé has black current, raspberry AND smoky flintstone. Same is true for grand Bourgogne wines, except that the fruit aromas are more on the raspberry and cherry side than on the black currant side.

Also, the chart does not justice to the German wines. Riesling should be always sweet? Most of the German rieslings are dry and have citrus aroma. BTW, the chart correctly lists Albarino under "light citrus lemon". But Albarino is nothing but riesling. German Monks brought it to Spain, and there it was named "alba" (white) "rino" (Rhine).

And take South Africa. The variety of South African wines is overwhelming. You have all kinds of climate and terroirs there. Impossible to squeeze it into such a chart.

But, again, the chart is well-made and an excellent start for beginners. Thank you for posting.

dwdvagamundo

Thanks. Interesting chart. Wouldn't put Malbec or Nero d'Avola in the "soft" category however.

Dickie_Gr

Nero D'Avola is anything but soft.

Licorice and peppery, anything but soft.

NewbE

Anything that helps one think about the many flavors in various wine varietals is good in my book, but yes, this chart has some flaws. I still enjoyed poring over it!

NewbE

Btw, traveller1959, that story about Albariño being Riesling is not universally accepted:
http://www.riasbaixaswines.com/about/what_albarino.php
It may be a Riesling clone, or it may be a cousin of Petit Manseng:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albariño
The dates don't match up is the point, but it's a good story.

traveller1959

NewbE, we were told the story by the sommelier of a Michelin-star acclaimed restaurant in Santander. We found it quite convincing because "rino" (or, in Portuguese, "rinho") means "Rhine" and the taste is similar to dry riesling. DNA analysis does not help much, because, over the centuries, there have been variations. But why should they name a grape after the river unless it was brought from there? (The riesling is grown along the Rhine, both on the western shores which are German and on the eastern shores which are, in the southern section, Alsatian which had been part of Germany and part of France in the course of history but who mainly want to retain their own culture, but this is another, most complex story.)

Whatever the truth, I find it annoying that Americans always (really?) make sweet wines from riesling. Dry rieslings are wonderfully light and crisp. Young riesling wines have probably the most distinct citrus flavours of all grapes. If you find them boring try a riesling with added mineral notes (from slate soil or from volcanic soil) or a late-harvest riesling with botrytis flavour. All too complex for such a chart. But complexity makes the superior wines.

NewbE

<But why should they name a grape after the river unless it was brought from there?>
Because they found a grape growing there that reminded them of Riesling? I'm not saying the story is wrong, just that it's impossible to prove and, because the dates of the first mentions of Albariño are *before* these German monks showed up, it's most likely an appealing story. Unless French monks brought it... As you say, the DNA won't help at this point.

More fun to talk about wine I like a dry Riesling myself, have had some good ones from Australia, as well as, of course, from Germany. I find Albariño to be easily distinguishable from Riesling--Riesling so often has that delightful petrol on the nose, which some perceive as rubber tire. The other night we had a terrific Albariño from Fillaboa in Rias Baixas, possibly the best I've ever tried here in the US; loads of complexity, a long finish, way more than a party wine. Keep an eye out for it; it may be more readily available now that one of the Mondavis (I can never keep them straight one from the other) has formed Folio Fine Wine Partners to showcase small production Spanish wineries he's invested in.

Sojourntraveller

Do winos care about flavour?

Given that a wino is defined as "someone who props up walls in the street, drinking an unidentifiable drink (it neednt be wine, could also be spirits, special brew, buckfast or lighter fluid) out of a paper bag whilst swearing incoherently and dribbling."

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wino

I can't really see them having discussions over the subtle taste differences between a couple of samples of some 'three buck chuck'.
http://www.masslive.com/entertainmen...eal_cheap.html

So next time you run into your 'fellow Fodorite winos' in Walmart, pull out your chart and see how they take to it.

nukesafe

I expected feedback on this chart; after all that's what makes horse races. What I did not expect was Ms. Sourpuss jumping in. Do you always have to have the last negative word, Sojourntraveller?

Sojourntraveller

Only if you insist on taking the bait nukesafe.

Fuller423

This is an effort to be objective about something that is highly subjective.

traveller1959

I do not consider flavour as highly subjective.

Raspberry, black currant, black cherry, flintstone, tobacco, chocolate, citrus, melon, apple, apricot and others are clearly detectable and distinguishable in wines (at least if you have some practice). In blind tastings, it is quite easy to recognize well-known wines, at least the grapes, by their tastes.

The chart is really good - it is just too simple to handle complexity - e.g. the combination of fruit and minerals which is so typical for great Bordeaux and Bourgogne wines.

NewbE

Have you all ever seen the chart sommeliers use to evaluate a wine? The tasting grid? Here's a link:
http://www.mastersommeliers.org/Reso...rch%202014.pdf
Fascinating stuff for wine heads! And the question of subjectivity is an interesting one.

IME, many people don't have words for the flavors in their mouths--this is literally a matter of the brain's wiring. Like Hellen Keller, you have to consciously attach a word to, in this case, the flavor. I find that I am pretty good at that after years of really working at it, but when I meet professional wine tasters, I am blown away at what they can discern AND name. And some people I meet seem permanently stuck on very simple descriptors--sour, sweet, harsh. Maybe they taste more than that, but they can't describe it.

So I'd say that one's preferences are subjective, certainly, but the ability to identify individual flavor components in a wine is not. The next step being to apply "book knowledge" to match the flavors to the varietal: for example,if you taste/smell petrol, you've got a Riesling.